redkev Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 It’s all ifs and buts BUT what do you do sell your best players to try and keep your head above water and keep ffp in check or gamble and keep them I’m saying this as now seeing all the teams in our league this season I honestly think ( injuries aside ) if we would have kept Antoine & Alex Scott we would be a top 6 poss top 4 side , The 30 million we made from that would be pocket money compared to getting to the premiership . Apart from Leicester who pretty much dominated the game against us albeit only beating us 1-0 we have held our own in event game this season little lucky in a couple granted , even when playing poorly aka Saturday we were still well in the game . I know it’s not an easy decision but we can’t keep getting the foundations for a decent side and push for the play offs then sell our best players surely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNQ Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 If the players want to leave… sell ‘em 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossi the Robin Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Players wanted to go 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Scott wasn’t remotely interested in staying, he wanted to go back in January. Top six still doesn’t mean you go up, you still have to win the playoffs. Scott has been injured a lot, there is no guarantee whatsoever that even if he had stayed we would have been top six. No alternative but to sell him. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 18 minutes ago, redkev said: It’s all ifs and buts BUT what do you do sell your best players to try and keep your head above water and keep ffp in check or gamble and keep them I’m saying this as now seeing all the teams in our league this season I honestly think ( injuries aside ) if we would have kept Antoine & Alex Scott we would be a top 6 poss top 4 side , The 30 million we made from that would be pocket money compared to getting to the premiership . Apart from Leicester who pretty much dominated the game against us albeit only beating us 1-0 we have held our own in event game this season little lucky in a couple granted , even when playing poorly aka Saturday we were still well in the game . I know it’s not an easy decision but we can’t keep getting the foundations for a decent side and push for the play offs then sell our best players surely Perhaps if the club had a better infrastructure players wouldn't be so keen to leave. The poor way the club is structured and the lack of cohesive plan will ultimately backfire. 8 2 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, exAtyeoMax said: Perhaps if the club had a better infrastructure players wouldn't be so keen to leave. The poor way the club is structured and the lack of cohesive plan will ultimately backfire. You think Bournemouth have a better “infrastructure”? It is all about money. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 4 minutes ago, GrahamC said: You think Bournemouth have a better “infrastructure”? It is all about money. I'm not talking stadium etc, I'm talking board room/ plan/ strategy 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Cyril Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 31 minutes ago, redkev said: It’s all ifs and buts e 30 million we made from that would be pocket money compared to getting to the premiership I have no desire to watch our players try and do well at Rugby. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 I suspect we fail FFP or the League deem we haven't done our bit if we keep Semenyo. Certainly beyond June. Scott on the other hand, well he has been injured on off for months hasn't he. I know what the OP means though, now through our hard work and decent squad building, Academy etc we have now put ourselves in a position whereby we no longer need to sell anyone we choose not to, financially speaking. The Scott sale will see us okay for some time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveInSA Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 How would you keep them AND meet FFP - it's a massive risk and probably not achievable e.g. Say Alex was on £15000 per week. And he earns £60000 a week at Bmuth. That's an additional amount of £2.3M a YEAR. you've then blown the wage structure and will have a lot of unhappy players. and also if you're not promoted blown FFP. and at the same time you'll most likely be relegated the following season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 47 minutes ago, redkev said: It’s all ifs and buts BUT what do you do sell your best players to try and keep your head above water and keep ffp in check or gamble and keep them I’m saying this as now seeing all the teams in our league this season I honestly think ( injuries aside ) if we would have kept Antoine & Alex Scott we would be a top 6 poss top 4 side , The 30 million we made from that would be pocket money compared to getting to the premiership . Apart from Leicester who pretty much dominated the game against us albeit only beating us 1-0 we have held our own in event game this season little lucky in a couple granted , even when playing poorly aka Saturday we were still well in the game . I know it’s not an easy decision but we can’t keep getting the foundations for a decent side and push for the play offs then sell our best players surely I think my answer is two-fold: - have better recruitment - have better succession planning I think the issue will selling our best players (unavoidable without the players thinking we are really close to getting promoted) is not having ready made replacements. If we do the two points above (easier said than done) then FFP shouldn’t even come into the equation. And if you can bring academy players through, even better….Scott and Semenyo avoided the need to recruit, but they didn’t avoid the need to have their successors already here. Brentford were the masters imho. 9 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 (edited) 31 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: I'm not talking stadium etc, I'm talking board room/ plan/ strategy That isn’t “infrastructure” it is the things you say. We cannot influence our boardroom, we aren’t a democracy. Our plan appears to be to continue to produce a significant amount of our own players, I might dispute how feasible that is, but hard to argue with the aim. We have tried to up our game in the transfer market, more Mark Sykes, fewer Kasey Palmers but that isn’t a quick fix. My view is in the past we have often made decisions that in hindsight look like the wrong ones, some (Palmer) did at the time, others certainly didn’t. I don’t have any confidence in either our current chairman or Director of Football so hard to be all that optimistic. Edited January 3 by GrahamC 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, redkev said: It’s all ifs and buts BUT what do you do sell your best players to try and keep your head above water and keep ffp in check or gamble and keep them I’m saying this as now seeing all the teams in our league this season I honestly think ( injuries aside ) if we would have kept Antoine & Alex Scott we would be a top 6 poss top 4 side , The 30 million we made from that would be pocket money compared to getting to the premiership . Apart from Leicester who pretty much dominated the game against us albeit only beating us 1-0 we have held our own in event game this season little lucky in a couple granted , even when playing poorly aka Saturday we were still well in the game . I know it’s not an easy decision but we can’t keep getting the foundations for a decent side and push for the play offs then sell our best players surely For a club like us it's all about the timing tbh. Scott and Semenyo left a season too early hence progress is slow. We all bemoan the lack of quality, correctly, but what do we expect when our best players are continually moved on? Without that last season we get FFFP points deduction(s). The only people who expect anything different are a small amount of supporters with their heads up their arse and, of course, the blokes in charge. We ARE a selling club, end of. Steve has made that as plain as he could make it........EVERY player has their price. It's not great news for fans who want to see the club competing at the "top end" each season but that's us as a club. What we really need is for Liam to keep making the steady improvement that Nige was making, add some much needed quality at our level and pray that the timing aligns so that when we have a squad that finally looks like it's capable of doing something it happens BEFORE we need to sell anybody/they want to **** off. What is a guarantee is that if Liam shows the signs that he's all that at this level and the hierarchy do not match his ambition he ***** off.........all day long. The hierarchy need to bin off the pointless and unhelpful soundbites, if they are capable of that, and for once deliver action to help the new manager get both HIM and US to where he wants to go.................. Edited January 3 by Numero Uno 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie andrews Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 42 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: I'm not talking stadium etc, I'm talking board room/ plan/ strategy Plus ambition...... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon bristol Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 If we hadnt sold our best players over the last 5 years we would certainly be better than we are now…. But we have signed so much shite over the years to replace them with that it’s embarrassing… combine that with some shite managers in charge and owners that couldnt get us into the prem if they plowed a billion into it, then really, nothing we could have done would have gotten us up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tully Bascomb Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Every club apart from 4 or 5 at the top of the Prem are selling clubs, for smaller clubs like us, it's the only way to survive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 The player wants to leave, to go up to the Prem - so you sell, and move on. For all but a few clubs, that's reality. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Fox Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, redkev said: It’s all ifs and buts BUT what do you do sell your best players to try and keep your head above water and keep ffp in check or gamble and keep them I’m saying this as now seeing all the teams in our league this season I honestly think ( injuries aside ) if we would have kept Antoine & Alex Scott we would be a top 6 poss top 4 side , The 30 million we made from that would be pocket money compared to getting to the premiership . Apart from Leicester who pretty much dominated the game against us albeit only beating us 1-0 we have held our own in event game this season little lucky in a couple granted , even when playing poorly aka Saturday we were still well in the game . I know it’s not an easy decision but we can’t keep getting the foundations for a decent side and push for the play offs then sell our best players surely Exactly what I was banging on about at the time we gave away Scott. Both had time on their contracts, both would have made a significant difference in a very average league. What we have left is a very average Championship side who will finish somewhere in mid table. Should FFP be a concern , then manage that situation as any other business would, legitimately as opposed to fiddling COVID figures, but not by selling everything we have that is worth keeping. No ambition, no guts and no glory , is that what we want from our club? We are certainly use to “ no glory”, as we never win …………all. I will be at WHU on Sunday, but mainly to tick the stadium of my grounds visited list. As to future games I will be more choosy in future, as I can’t take much more of the rubbish I witnessed at QPR , Birmingham and the Millwall game. Nor do I need to hear anymore crap about learning lessons and so on, what this lot earn, you would hope that they know by now what they are doing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 3 minutes ago, Simon bristol said: If we hadnt sold our best players over the last 5 years we would certainly be better than we are now…. But we have signed so much shite over the years to replace them with that it’s embarrassing… combine that with some shite managers in charge and owners that couldnt get us into the prem if they plowed a billion into it, then really, nothing we could have done would have gotten us up Not knocking Gary Johnson's record at all but he made a comment that was a pragmatic response to the situation he was in, but unfortunately sounded clever to those who aren't really that football savvy (the Owners), and that ruined us for a long time really......."clubs in the bag". It literally became club policy until Nige decided to sack it off. I don't get the impression that Manning is a "clubs in the bag" merchant either so at least that gives us a chance to move forwards. If this club ever succeeds it will be despite the hierarchy not because of it...........I hope Liam has got broad shoulders!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRoss Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 This comes up all the time. You can't hold players for ever. Scott and Semenyo went from earning 5k a week to 50k a week and playing in the best league in the world. We can't compete with that. Same with us and Oxfords players. It's a part of the game. The recruitment thereafter is what needs to be done correctly. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KegCity Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 59 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: I'm not talking stadium etc, I'm talking board room/ plan/ strategy Exactly, if players believe they can get to the Premier League with City, rather than via City, they’re much more likely to stay. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, GrahamC said: You think Bournemouth have a better “infrastructure”? It is all about money. Which we can pay players but only by being in the Prem (which we never look like getting anywhere close to reaching) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Fox Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, RedRoss said: This comes up all the time. You can't hold players for ever. Scott and Semenyo went from earning 5k a week to 50k a week and playing in the best league in the world. We can't compete with that. Same with us and Oxfords players. It's a part of the game. The recruitment thereafter is what needs to be done correctly. Yes , but you manage these exits , Brighton are a good example, there players are rated by the bigger clubs , but are only allowed to leave when it suits Brighton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 It’s pretty clear that we have signed youngsters in the past with a promise we won’t stand in their way if they want to progress. If we switch that and keep players here against their wishes then we have (a) disgruntled players, and (b) a poor reputation when trying to sign ambitious youngsters. To progress we need to keep bringing youth through AND be almost perfect in our signings. We are progressing albeit slowly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRoss Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Just now, Grey Fox said: Yes , but you manage these exits , Brighton are a good example, there players are rated by the bigger clubs , but are only allowed to leave when it suits Brighton One massive difference. They play in the PL. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, exAtyeoMax said: Perhaps if the club had a better infrastructure players wouldn't be so keen to leave. The poor way the club is structured and the lack of cohesive plan will ultimately backfire. I still think if a player can quadruple their pay by moving it happens. Brighton appears brilliantly run and qualified for Europe bur their best players went and I cant believe Brighton wanted it to happen. Edited January 3 by Natchfever Typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 If, then, we are caught/stuck, in an impossible vicious circle - best players want to be in PL so are sold/we can't reach the PL without best players - one wonders how "the likes of" Swansea, Luton, Huddersfield, Cardiff, Brentford et al managed a similar predicament. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexukhc Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Work in pensions mate, what do you do? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, alexukhc said: Work in pensions mate, what do you do? Can I have one if one is going spare ? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said: If, then, we are caught/stuck, in an impossible vicious circle - best players want to be in PL so are sold/we can't reach the PL without best players - one wonders how "the likes of" Swansea, Luton, Huddersfield, Cardiff, Brentford et al managed a similar predicament. Brentford sold many a player. Very impressive recruit and replace too. Swansea had an excellent system with managers, maybe it wouldn't work these days- it ran aground when Laudrup left, he was the last cab off the rank in their golden chain of managers. Luton actually started to lose players from summer 2022. Naismith their POTY, by Janaury a first choice RB in Bree to Southampton, Cornick again to us..lost their manager too in between the 2 Windows. Had they stayed down things might have be begun to unravel in terms of retention, heads being turned etc. Cardiff initial promotion came pre FFP, they were big spenders which we were not. Parachutes can assist greatly. Huddersfield tapped the German market quite well. Wagner and his contracts played a part. Some of these had low cost bases too. The better your cost base, the mess pressure to sell year in hear out. We have had more eye catching and outstanding individuals than some of these tbh, Brentford aside.. Edited January 3 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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