Mr Popodopolous Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 More outstanding individuals or eye catching individuals means they are more susceptible to PL sides..Brentford aside a lot of those players aren't thst eye catching and where are they now kinda thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 16 minutes ago, Natchfever said: I still think if a player can quadruple their pay by moving it happens. Brighton appears brilliantly run and qualified for Europe bur their best players went and I cant believe Brighton wanted it to happen. well yes, that happens at every club but at least Brighton are Premier League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 The squads of promotion, Cardiff x 2 Huddersfield, Luton they are wildly eye catching. I'll let you all judge...where are the standout names. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016–17_Huddersfield_Town_A.F.C._season https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012–13_Cardiff_City_F.C._season https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–18_Cardiff_City_F.C._season https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022–23_Luton_Town_F.C._season https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010–11_Swansea_City_A.F.C._season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 26 minutes ago, Natchfever said: I still think if a player can quadruple their pay by moving it happens. Brighton appears brilliantly run and qualified for Europe bur their best players went and I cant believe Brighton wanted it to happen. And how do they continue to compete…. 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: I think my answer is two-fold: - have better recruitment - have better succession planning I think the issue will selling our best players (unavoidable without the players thinking we are really close to getting promoted) is not having ready made replacements. If we do the two points above (easier said than done) then FFP shouldn’t even come into the equation. And if you can bring academy players through, even better….Scott and Semenyo avoided the need to recruit, but they didn’t avoid the need to have their successors already here. Brentford were the masters imho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC31 Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 (edited) You can't stop players leaving for the Premier leauge they just won't sign extended terms and they will leave for nothing. What I do expect us to do is get our house in order and reinvest the money into good recruitment to make us a better side in the long run if you have to keep selling your best players for millions and millions of pounds and instead taking punts in players like mehmeti and cornick just to stay afloat then something is fundamental wrong with the business model also unfortunately we aren't a very inspiring club why an earth should a player being courted by the Premier leauge beileve he can get there with us ? Edited January 3 by BCFC31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 I am not surprised that players jump at the chance to go to the Premier League. It was the same for Reid and Bryan as it has been for Semenyo and Scott. The biggest surprise for me is that only Bournemouth seemed interested in Scott or willing to pay our price for the Championship Young Player of the Year, who was actually playing for a team in the bottom half of the table. Suggests that some PL teams don’t really scout the Championship that well and would prefer to recruit from overseas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Can’t believe this has even been bought up, a player has a choice of staying on £5000 a week and playing at the likes of Rotherham, PNE etc or he can multiply his salary 6 fold and play at Anfield, Old Trafford Emirates etc, it’s a no brainer for a player and rightly so and the truth is that we have very little say in the matter and all we can do is try and get as much money as possible for a player 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC31 Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, GrahamC said: That isn’t “infrastructure” it is the things you say. We cannot influence our boardroom, we aren’t a democracy. Our plan appears to be to continue to produce a significant amount of our own players, I might dispute how feasible that is, but hard to argue with the aim. We have tried to up our game in the transfer market, more Mark Sykes, fewer Kasey Palmers but that isn’t a quick fix. My view is in the past we have often made decisions that in hindsight look like the wrong ones, some (Palmer) did at the time, others certainly didn’t. I don’t have any confidence in either our current chairman or Director of Football so hard to be all that optimistic. Palmer was a mark ashton vanity signing we didn't even need him we had the current championship top goalscorer already at the club who could play the same role in sammie szmodics 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 The problem is money, and its getting worse. The financial disparity between the Premier League and the Championship is so huge that it is impossible to try and control it from our end. Saying if we held on to Scott or Semenyo is simply ludicrous and not living in the real world. They are players who have a talent who want to make the most of it as quickly as possible. In Scott's case it is a generational talent. Even Bournemouth fans are realising that they would do well to get a season out of him before he goes onto a bigger and better club and that's with him just coming back from an injury! We simply cannot compete wages wise. If someone offered five or six times your salary working for less and in a better environment you wouldn't think twice about it. What I would say is that with the right manager on board and experienced structure in place we can nurture this talent correctly and look to engineer the inevitable transfer at a better time that benefits the club. We had that structure in place & sadly, we don't have it anymore. So, a typical scenario would be seeing Conway bag 20 goals this season & with the support of the experienced manager who knows how to deal with the big clubs, fending off enquiries until the right one came along to the mutual benefit of club & player may delay the sale until we have the replacement lined up. Now we have a head coach who coaches and somebody else deals with the enquiries so he could be sold earlier than expected. We are a relatively small fish in an ever widening sea. It doesn't matter if we pull in 20,000 plus crowds or have a wonderful stadium or training complex, its Sky money & it will get even worse with Foreign money already distorting when & where we can play world cups and in what leagues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrizzleRed Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 I’d love us to keep our best young players and build round them. Realistically, that isn’t going to happen until this club shows genuine desire and ambition to move upwards. If we did that, maybe those players might stick around for longer and believe they could make that progression with us. You can’t make a player stay who doesn’t want to. That’s the situation we’re in, so it’s how you replace them and what you do with the money from the sale that counts. That nest egg isn’t doing anything for us at the moment, so we certainly aren’t maximising the returns we had from the sales, or helping us on the pitch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 57 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said: Which we can pay players but only by being in the Prem (which we never look like getting anywhere close to reaching) 49 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said: If, then, we are caught/stuck, in an impossible vicious circle - best players want to be in PL so are sold/we can't reach the PL without best players - one wonders how "the likes of" Swansea, Luton, Huddersfield, Cardiff, Brentford et al managed a similar predicament. You have answered your own question with these two posts. We can do so by learning from these clubs, identifying similarities & also maximise our strengths where they are clear differences. Luton did this without being anywhere near even mid range payers in the division which answers your first point. How? By absolutely stellar recruitment & seizing their opportunity in a season when 2 of the relegated parachute payments sides didn’t even make the playoffs. A very rare occurrence. Huddersfield (a while ago now), a similar model. Brentford’s route was unique (no Academy, heavy recruitment from Denmark) & is very difficult to replicate. There is also the time to hold & time to fold argument, so when would additional investment pay off, when would it be pointless. We have often got this the wrong way around. The answer here is pretty complex, clubs are often very different in their composition & geography can play a part too. I actually thought the Pearson, Gould (then Alexander) reset after our financial woes put us in a good position to at least threaten to do this, I can’t pretend that with Tinnion at the helm I have the same optimism now, whatever Manning achieves. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuber Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, GrahamC said: You think Bournemouth have a better “infrastructure”? It is all about money. They have better ownership, progression, and ambition. Ruthless enough to go after their targets and see deals through. The last 15 years made that pretty clear. It gives them the PL platform they need to get a better move from proving themselves at that level. Greater progression. Edited January 3 by Fuber 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuber Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, GrahamC said: You think Bournemouth have a better “infrastructure”? It is all about money. Infrastructure for me, is ownership structure, strategy, and facilities. You need all three, we only have the latter. The former two have been switched around like a continuous puzzle with all corner pieces the last five years. If it was just down to pure facilities, Darlington would have been in the PL by now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Fox Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, RedRoss said: One massive difference. They play in the PL. And their suitors play in the Champions League. Brighton, with ambition have gone from the Championship to the Premier, and now the Europa League. Where do you want to see us in five years time , the f,,,,,,,,lg Gloucester Professional Cup ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkev Posted January 3 Author Report Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, TV Tom said: Can’t believe this has even been bought up, a player has a choice of staying on £5000 a week and playing at the likes of Rotherham, PNE etc or he can multiply his salary 6 fold and play at Anfield, Old Trafford Emirates etc, it’s a no brainer for a player and rightly so and the truth is that we have very little say in the matter and all we can do is try and get as much money as possible for a player The reason I brought this up Tom is probably through frustration I understand and agree with many of the comments and there have been some very good ones ( unusual for otib ) but I really do think looking at our squad how it is and how we are doing I think those 2 players would have made a huge difference, Leicester apart on our day I think we’re not far behind any of the other teams , perhaps that being down to a weaker league I don’t know 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, redkev said: The reason I brought this up Tom is probably through frustration I understand and agree with many of the comments and there have been some very good ones ( unusual for otib ) but I really do think looking at our squad how it is and how we are doing I think those 2 players would have made a huge difference, Leicester apart on our day I think we’re not far behind any of the other teams , perhaps that being down to a weaker league I don’t know Think the League is stronger this year if anything. It was stronger as a whole IMO in the mid to late 2010s though. Wolves with Nuno and Neves, Villa with Grealish, Fulham with Cairney and Mitrovic, Boro with the likes of Traore, pre injury Assombolonga, pre injury Bamford, Derby with Vydra. We weren't bad either.. Then Bielsa came in took management to another level, Villa added the likes of Tammy and El-Ghazi to Grealish..Derby with Mount, Tomori and Wilson. Sheffield United showed an ability to step up to the PL the next year flying under Wilder. Again we weren't bad either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 At some point the club will have to spend and take the risk, if we are ever going to make it in the current climate. To minimise that risk we need a good core side (which I don’t think the current one is) with some ex Prem players (with something left in their legs) some good homegrown talent, and, dare I say it, an experienced manager or, at least, a successful one. An owner prepared to take the risk by major January signings, to build on those made the previous summer. A international scouting infrastructure which at present we seem to lack. Above all we need a goal scorer, if possible a two man striking team scoring regularly. Not much to ask if we had owners like Wrexham have. It really isn’t that difficult given money and belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc01 Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 3 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said: Perhaps if the club had a better infrastructure players wouldn't be so keen to leave. The poor way the club is structured and the lack of cohesive plan will ultimately backfire. 100% agree that the structure is inadequate in terms of board/direction/strategy/recruitment etc. Without a definitive recruitment strategy we'll just carry on as we are and tread water, which in this league means going backwards. Players and supporters like to see a club being ambitious and with clear objectives rather than sound bites, but there is no sign of that at the moment, certainly not from an outside perspective. I don't know what the recruitment strategy is, other than collect young players and hope to make a fortune from selling them later (yet still make an accounting loss). Its apparent to me that the structure of the club is inadequate with inexperienced people in situ with no clear strategic objectives. Sound bites like "we want to be a top 6 club" doesn't cut it. The club should have fought tooth and nail to keep Gould if possible and, if NP had to be removed from the managers job, move him into the Technical/Football Ops Director role, with Tinnion staying as Academy Director, LM Head Coach, and JL taking a back seat. Dream team imo and a big opportunity missed or, more to the point, not wanted. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome To The Jungle Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Always balance the books. To not do so is asking to be the next Reading. If you can give yourself the reputation of good football, and a proven record of moving players to the top flight, you will find good FL players will be more likely to join us as we're a good bet for their future. We won't get their best, but they'll give us better than most championship sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, bcfc01 said: 100% agree that the structure is inadequate in terms of board/direction/strategy/recruitment etc. Without a definitive recruitment strategy we'll just carry on as we are and tread water, which in this league means going backwards. Players and supporters like to see a club being ambitious and with clear objectives rather than sound bites, but there is no sign of that at the moment, certainly not from an outside perspective. I don't know what the recruitment strategy is, other than collect young players and hope to make a fortune from selling them later (yet still make an accounting loss). Its apparent to me that the structure of the club is inadequate with inexperienced people in situ with no clear strategic objectives. Sound bites like "we want to be a top 6 club" doesn't cut it. The club should have fought tooth and nail to keep Gould if possible and, if NP had to be removed from the managers job, move him into the Technical/Football Ops Director role, with Tinnion staying as Academy Director, LM Head Coach, and JL taking a back seat. Dream team imo and a big opportunity missed or, more to the point, not wanted. "Bell and Conway will be our strike force for years to come" "Achieve our ambition of Premier League Football" "Top end team" "See you back on here when we are in the Premier League" "Everything is done in the best interests of the club" "You can't please everyone" It's all impulsive, ill thought-out soundbites of no substance at all and designed to try and either please people or shut them up without giving away any actual information. How about actually getting something of real substance done first? Then give us a ******* soundbite. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmite Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 6 minutes ago, bcfc01 said: 100% agree that the structure is inadequate in terms of board/direction/strategy/recruitment etc. Without a definitive recruitment strategy we'll just carry on as we are and tread water, which in this league means going backwards. Players and supporters like to see a club being ambitious and with clear objectives rather than sound bites, but there is no sign of that at the moment, certainly not from an outside perspective. I don't know what the recruitment strategy is, other than collect young players and hope to make a fortune from selling them later (yet still make an accounting loss). Its apparent to me that the structure of the club is inadequate with inexperienced people in situ with no clear strategic objectives. Sound bites like "we want to be a top 6 club" doesn't cut it. The club should have fought tooth and nail to keep Gould if possible and, if NP had to be removed from the managers job, move him into the Technical/Football Ops Director role, with Tinnion staying as Academy Director, LM Head Coach, and JL taking a back seat. Dream team imo and a big opportunity missed or, more to the point, not wanted. I've a feeling that the bottom line is that The Lansdowns either don't want, or can't afford, to fund Premiership football. That's why Steve is looking for buyer/investor to help fund the project. The aim seems to be "don't go down" rather than go for promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 20 minutes ago, marmite said: I've a feeling that the bottom line is that The Lansdowns either don't want, or can't afford, to fund Premiership football. That's why Steve is looking for buyer/investor to help fund the project. The aim seems to be "don't go down" rather than go for promotion. Can't afford is a bit of a stretch, SL is worth more than Benham, Luton owner, possibly Prince Abdullah who even if he is that wealthy- doubtful- certainly hasn't splashed it. That is 3, Burnley it is unclear how much their owners put in, was a leveraged buyout of course. Think Marinakis is also worth less than SL. (Nottingham Forest). Possibly SL is a bit tired of the model of cash in, financial black holes etc which can be modern football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc01 Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 20 minutes ago, marmite said: I've a feeling that the bottom line is that The Lansdowns either don't want, or can't afford, to fund Premiership football. That's why Steve is looking for buyer/investor to help fund the project. The aim seems to be "don't go down" rather than go for promotion. My feeling is that JL wants the opportunity to run the club without the input of SL and that is what is now happening with no CEO and NP sacked. No one to challenge him. He gets his trusted mate to be a trainee CEO and Technical Director. I've a lot of time for Tinnion and the job he's done at the Academy (with some good people also doing some great work), but I'm wary that his current position may be asking a bit too much of him, but more than willing to be proven wrong. And does JL have the experience to be master of all trades ? Unfortunately not in my opinion, he needs some experienced people around him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, redkev said: The reason I brought this up Tom is probably through frustration I understand and agree with many of the comments and there have been some very good ones ( unusual for otib ) but I really do think looking at our squad how it is and how we are doing I think those 2 players would have made a huge difference, Leicester apart on our day I think we’re not far behind any of the other teams , perhaps that being down to a weaker league I don’t know You’d think Semenyo & Scott (2 great players) would improve us massively though our finishing league positions the last two seasons might suggest otherwise or are we just over-achieving this season without them ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, bcfc01 said: My feeling is that JL wants the opportunity to run the club without the input of SL and that is what is now happening with no CEO and NP sacked. No one to challenge him. He gets his trusted mate to be a trainee CEO and Technical Director. I've a lot of time for Tinnion and the job he's done at the Academy (with some good people also doing some great work), but I'm wary that his current position may be asking a bit too much of him, but more than willing to be proven wrong. And does JL have the experience to be master of all trades ? Unfortunately not in my opinion, he needs some experienced people around him. I see it as SL is giving him the chance but also putting a safety net around him. SL trusts GM…and he needs someone he can trust after MA! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 It's all a bit irrelevant isn't it? Semenyo and Scott wanted to leave to become overnight millionaires and play in the premier league. Their contracts were also expiring. It was impossible to keep them. We'd have also been in big FFP trouble had we not sold Semenyo. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc01 Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I see it as SL is giving him the chance but also putting a safety net around him. SL trusts GM…and he needs someone he can trust after MA! I'd forgotten about the other half of the board. Then again, I know absolutely nothing about him other than what I read on Linkedin. Incidentally, I saw on Linkedin that Dave Barton has left as head of Comms for Bristol CIty to Head up Comms for Bristol Sport (or is it old news). They're looking for a replacement. Maybe JL was serious about improving the comms ? Or he's going to do it himself.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinforlife2 Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 4 hours ago, KegCity said: Exactly, if players believe they can get to the Premier League with City, rather than via City, they’re much more likely to stay. Disagree. Let's put it like this. You are doing a job, you are happy in that job, but another job comes along. That job is going to 3x your salary. Now you come and speak to me, and I tell you don't worry about that fancy new job, within 2-3 years you will be in the same position here and on that money. You are not going to wait. Something could happen in a weeks time, which means that opportunity may disappear forever. Players don't really care who they play for, they just want to be in the top flight and on big money. The likes of Leicester are paying Premier League wages in the Championship and will be back there very soon. For that reason, the majority of players didn't wish or need to leave. We are not even close to knocking on the door, so there is no way we can say to these players, sorry we're not selling you. All you then end up with, is unhappy players, who if you stand in their way, will run a contract down and walk for nothing. If that happens, the fans would be fuming at the owners and manager! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clutton Caveman Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 5 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said: I'm not talking stadium etc, I'm talking board room/ plan/ strategy I think the thing that would make the difference is "Genuine Ambition". Genuine is important because no matter what JL says they know this is not a top 6 squad and the fact that he says it is shows he is either insincere or stupid or both. Ambition means that the club is determined to reach the prem and shows that in all it does. I think with Genuine Ambition the players would at least give it 1 more year. The reality that they see is that we are a club with owners that want out. They want to stay in the Championship with as close to a breakeven as possible. Where, in the Championship does really matter. The management have learned that whilst we are in the Championship season tickets sales and gate receipts are pretty much the same whether we are 8th or 15th. No matter what dross they serve up the loyal 20,000 or so keep showing up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 7 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said: I think the thing that would make the difference is "Genuine Ambition". Genuine is important because no matter what JL says they know this is not a top 6 squad and the fact that he says it is shows he is either insincere or stupid or both. Ambition means that the club is determined to reach the prem and shows that in all it does. I think with Genuine Ambition the players would at least give it 1 more year. The reality that they see is that we are a club with owners that want out. They want to stay in the Championship with as close to a breakeven as possible. Where, in the Championship does really matter. The management have learned that whilst we are in the Championship season tickets sales and gate receipts are pretty much the same whether we are 8th or 15th. No matter what dross they serve up the loyal 20,000 or so keep showing up. Can you quantify in financial terms the lack of ambition point..£22.2m, £28.5m and of course the Covid affected years of £38m and £10m in losses across the prior 4 seasons. Can you quantify how we should demonstrate this, either in financial or intent based terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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