W-S-M Seagull Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 3 hours ago, RedRoss said: So we didn't have a plan B for Southampton? We didn't want it more than them? We didn't show any aggression/emotion when we played one of the best teams in the division? I agree that we need to work on beating the teams the set up like QPR however you never look at the other side of the coin when assessing Manning's performance. That issue is not indicative of just Manning's tenure, that was equally frustrating when NP was managing us. We've had that issue for ages. Whether that's due to the young makeup of the team or some other reason we struggle with that element of breaking teams down, we also struggle with overall game management. I'm not acknowledging it's not an issue but let's not pretend this is a new thing. I've said on here many times that the Southampton game was the complete performance and the best result in years. We did want in more than Southampton. It was only a few days previously they had struggled against Huddersfield. I'm not sure a one off game does anything to my concerns about Mannings ability to motivate. You say that I never look at the otherside but here you are using the example of us beating one of the top sides in the division but you are failing to also mention how terrible we were against another top side in the league, Leeds. Why are we talking about Pearson again? I'm just not going to engage in any talk about Pearson again cos it's getting tiresome. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 7 minutes ago, firstdivision said: It really isn’t do or die, though, is it? We all hope next season is an improvement on this one, as this season has been a small improvement on the last one. Too many fans at too many clubs want to be angry or become angry about too much. We all hope for better but we’ll be better off if we leave the hyperbole aside. There will be another season after the next one and another season after that. For the credibility of the hierarchy I'd say real and discernible improvement is needed. A sense that we are moving forward. Some of the foundations look okay indeed solid in a range of ways but they twisted, they made a change to try and push forward.. the Championship could be a bit less top heavy next year. We have to seize a bit of momentum, look to make a push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 3 hours ago, Tim Monaghan said: This is exactly where I'm at, next season is probably one of the most crucial I can remember. I never thought that we would be up there this season even though JL and GM alluded (more than alluded) to it after Pearsons sacking. Basically they had to say that, however, that has heaped the pressure on for next season x100. Of course, a lot of people were fuming at the way the sacking of Nigel was done, myself included. It was toxic wasn't it, but imagine how toxic it will become if we aren't challenging next year. I include myself into this. At the end of the day, I think Manning is the right fit for the club, and actually one of the most exciting managerial appointments for me since, well, Nigel, but he will have to deliver. If Liam doesn't deliver next season, well, I think JL and SL are in deep......... You can't recover from that can you really, especially with the history they've got when it comes to managerial appointments and the league position that we were in when the NP sacking was made. I really hope it doesn't get to that stage, and JL, BT and GM will be fully aware of the fans feeling around this. As the post above states, there really isn't any excuses next season to be up there after what JL, GM and BT have said. None whatsoever. It really is do or die and this is the final straw with the fans I feel. We are certainly in for an interesting season, that's for sure. You say next season is one of the most crucial that you can remember, can you understand why I made my thread the other day now? I'm not sure what metric you have used to arrive at the opinion that next season the pressure is on. Why next season? And why have you given so much crap to people who are of the opinion that the pressure was on this season? I'm genuinely interested here, what have you seen that makes you so excited about Manning and makes you think that he's the right fit for the club? You say there isnt any excuses to not be up there next season, I feel the same about this season. He had an oven ready squad. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galley is our king Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: For the credibility of the hierarchy I'd say real and discernible improvement is needed. A sense that we are moving forward. Some of the foundations look okay indeed solid in a range of ways but they twisted, they made a change to try and push forward.. the Championship could be a bit less top heavy next year. We have to seize a bit of momentum, look to make a push. Sorry for me, the hierarchy have zero credibility now. In the same way they have zero experience or qualifications to do their jobs. We are being ran by amateurs who thought it a great idea to get rid of those who knew what they were doing. I really hope it doesn't but I fear it will all end in tears. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Galley is our king said: Sorry for me, the hierarchy have zero credibility now. In the same way they have zero experience or qualifications to do their jobs. We are being ran by amateurs who thought it a great idea to get rid of those who knew what they were doing. I really hope it doesn't but I fear it will all end in tears. I know what you mean, but same old or even regression next year would absolutely cement it among a lot of fans IMO. I can't muster up all that much positivity personally. Edited February 22 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstdivision Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 26 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: For the credibility of the hierarchy I'd say real and discernible improvement is needed. A sense that we are moving forward. Some of the foundations look okay indeed solid in a range of ways but they twisted, they made a change to try and push forward.. the Championship could be a bit less top heavy next year. We have to seize a bit of momentum, look to make a push. I don’t disagree with that but I don’t see it as do or die. Perhaps I just have a little more patience than some, however much I hate it when we lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 (edited) 11 minutes ago, firstdivision said: I don’t disagree with that but I don’t see it as do or die. Perhaps I just have a little more patience than some, however much I hate it when we lose. Think the fans may turn a bit, especially if it feels like we are needlessly stalling or worse, going backwards. If say in November, December we are similarly or worse placed yeah I can see discontent. Edited February 22 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 57 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: You say next season is one of the most crucial that you can remember, can you understand why I made my thread the other day now? I'm not sure what metric you have used to arrive at the opinion that next season the pressure is on. Why next season? And why have you given so much crap to people who are of the opinion that the pressure was on this season? I'm genuinely interested here, what have you seen that makes you so excited about Manning and makes you think that he's the right fit for the club? You say there isnt any excuses to not be up there next season, I feel the same about this season. He had an oven ready squad. We were 15th when he took over weren't we? What exactly were you expecting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Super said: We were 15th when he took over weren't we? What exactly were you expecting? Can't speak for WSM but. We were 15th 5 off the playoffs when NP left. 3 points ahead of Coventry however. Now 7 short of them. When Manning came in though we had 1.4 PPG, a 40% (League) win ratio and having just checked, 11th 4 points from the playoffs. 6 pts and GD ahead of Coventry btw. This was after NP left but also post the Fleming game. I was rather hoping that the level might be maintained. To maintain the level we should effectively be 2-3 points better off and I dunno if less injuries and January additions assist further. Granted they've barely played. A win light too maybe. Edited February 22 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galley is our king Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 3 minutes ago, Super said: We were 15th when he took over weren't we? What exactly were you expecting? I was expecting what I was told I would get and the reasons given for sacking Pearson. You may be happy to be lied to but I'm not! Put up or piss off. 4 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Can't speak for WSM but. We were 15th 5 off the playoffs when NP left. 3 points ahead of Coventry however. Now 7 short of them. When Manning came in though we had 1.4 PPG, a 40% (League) win ratio and having just checked, 11th 4 points from the playoffs. 6 pts and GD ahead of Coventry btw. This was after NP left but also post the Fleming game. I was rather hoping that the level might be maintained. We weren't making the playoffs under Pearson and we obviously aren't under Manning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 5 minutes ago, Super said: We were 15th when he took over weren't we? What exactly were you expecting? Progression at the very least and top 10. My expectations were also raised when we were told Manning was the guy to make us challange this season. What we're you expecting? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 (edited) Just now, Super said: We weren't making the playoffs under Pearson and we obviously aren't under Manning. Sure but we have stalled or regressed. The base level is the base level. Edited February 22 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 1 minute ago, Galley is our king said: I was expecting what I was told I would get and the reasons given for sacking Pearson. You may be happy to be lied to but I'm not! Put up or piss off. Obviously what we were told by the hierarchy was nonsense nobody believed it did they?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 1 minute ago, Super said: We weren't making the playoffs under Pearson and we obviously aren't under Manning. Why do you always use these hypothetical scenarios in order to down play the shite job Manning has done? Stop talking about Pearson. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said: Progression at the very least and top 10. My expectations were also raised when we were told Manning was the guy to make us challange this season. What we're you expecting? Us to mid table ish which is exactly where we are. As for top 10 what makes you think we won't finish there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 My expectations at starting point were a top 10 push and 63-65 pts. Maintaining the base level that was inherited. With a fair wind which we seldom get never know but 63-65 pts. We can still achieve that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said: Why do you always use these hypothetical scenarios in order to down play the shite job Manning has done? Stop talking about Pearson. You are a moron if you think he's doing a shite job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 1 minute ago, Super said: Us to mid table ish which is exactly where we are. As for top 10 what makes you think we won't finish there? Sorry Super but I do not for one minute believe you went into this season expecting us to be mid table and to equal last years total. The vast majority were expecting progression. Once again I think you're moving the goal posts to down play down the shite job Manning has done. Because we have a lot of teams below us to play and Saturday proved Manning does not have a clue how to beat those sides. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 3 minutes ago, Super said: You are a moron if you think he's doing a shite job. You think he's doing a good job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Monaghan Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 28 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: You say next season is one of the most crucial that you can remember, can you understand why I made my thread the other day now? I'm not sure what metric you have used to arrive at the opinion that next season the pressure is on. Why next season? And why have you given so much crap to people who are of the opinion that the pressure was on this season? I'm genuinely interested here, what have you seen that makes you so excited about Manning and makes you think that he's the right fit for the club? You say there isnt any excuses to not be up there next season, I feel the same about this season. He had an oven ready squad. The metric was in the OP. Please revisit that and the post it quoted. Why next season? Unlike yourself, I don't actually believe this squad is oven-ready, if by that you mean it's the complete squad capable of gaining promotion. I don't think it's far off, but certainly not oven-ready. Assuming we don't secure Twine on a permanent basis, I feel we need a left-sided player and a striker (and I agree with BT on this) in the mould of a Keiffer Moore. I was gutted when he moved to Ipswich; he seemed precisely the type of player we needed. Turns out, he's not doing too badly at the moment, scoring 4 in 5. Why next season? Because you have to give a manager time. I know that's not what you want to hear, and it's not what JL, BT, and GM said, but I've taken all of that with a pinch of salt. They're soundbites, not particularly clever ones, hence one of the reasons they've put pressure on themselves for next season. Maybe I'm not as knee-jerk as you, and maybe you're even right, but from my experience within the game (you know my history, it's well-documented), three months isn't long in football. It simply isn't long enough to make an impact. Of course, you will have the odd anomaly of a manager, and we can also cite names on the flip side that took seasons to properly bed in like Sir Alex. So, we are essentially saying the same thing, but we just have a different timescale. You think we have an oven-ready squad, and I don't think we're quite there yet. The reason I got on to you yesterday was that you weren't much on to Pearson after he joined when he arguably had a better squad. You didn't even question it. But I'm not having this conversation again, so we will just have to park that. Why am I excited about Manning and why do I think he's a good fit for the club? Because I believe he is a young, intelligent manager who wants to play the game the way I like to watch it. He also has a good history of working with youth players. We've seen flashes of how Manning likes to play in games vs Watford, Southampton, Coventry, all four FA Cup games, etc. This is the football I was looking for, and I was excited about Manning. But, we have also seen some of his tactical naivety; let's take the Leeds game and QPR as examples. However, if he got it right all of the time, he certainly wouldn't be managing Bristol City, and I'm happy to give him the allowance as I've mentioned; it's been three months, and he is still learning too. So, my metric as to why next season the pressure is on (although I've answered this already) is that you have to take the situation as a whole. The top brass have said what they've said. I feel like Manning needs time to fully bed in and get a grasp on what he needs and a summer transfer window to obtain those players. We have no pressure on FFP, and technically we could spend a decent amount bringing us to a point where Manning has to deliver due to what JL has ultimately promised, and there shouldn't be any excuse why this can't be done. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galley is our king Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 4 minutes ago, Super said: Obviously what we were told by the hierarchy was nonsense nobody believed it did they?! No I didn't but that's not the point is it? People now just get away with blatant lies to justify their actions. Politicians are at the top of that list obviously but many more are bandwagon jumping. Do what you said you would do, make happen what you said would happen or crawl back under your stone. We, as supporters MUST hold these liars to account. WE are the only constant within the football club and we must never forget the amateur way the club is being run and the lies being told. Still on going isn't it? Lies around the lad just arrived from Belgium. Shocking "leadership" 10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 5 minutes ago, Tim Monaghan said: and a striker (and I agree with BT on this) in the mould of a Keiffer Moore. I was gutted when he moved to Ipswich; he seemed precisely the type of player we needed. Turns out, he's not doing too badly at the moment, scoring 4 in 5. Just on this particular point. Moore or equivalent type, would he be in place of Conway, to compete with, alongside? Does that profile of player, fit with the consistent principles that we are apparently (but not definitely) working towards? Moore is a good player but would he be a good tactical fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Monaghan Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 Just now, Mr Popodopolous said: Just on this particular point. Moore or equivalent type, would he be in place of Conway, to compete with, alongside? Does that profile of player, fit with the consistent principles that we are apparently (but not definitely) working towards? Moore is a good player but would he be a good tactical fit? Yes, I certainly believe he would be exactly the right tactical fit. Either or has he can play both roles. He's actually deceptively quick and decent with his feet. Anyway, its a bit of a non debate as he won't be coming here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Tim Monaghan said: Yes, I certainly believe he would be exactly the right tactical fit. Either or has he can play both roles. He's actually deceptively quick and decent with his feet. Anyway, its a bit of a non debate as he won't be coming here. Let's stick with profile of Moore then rather than just Moore verbatim, if we find anyone of that profile. Lone striker, pair with Conway? Back 3..feels like it may unbalance the side unless the personnel spot on. If Conway is sold it's all academic. Edited February 22 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Geoff Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 40 minutes ago, Super said: We were 15th when he took over weren't we? What exactly were you expecting? 11th and 8th a week before. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said: 11th and 8th a week before. 11th is a key one because that was at the time of the changing of the guard. 1/3 of season gone, 21 Pts/15 games, 40% win ratio. QPR with 1 home win in nearly a year and our great recent record there..that is an opportunity. Especially with: *QPR Away *Middlesbrough Home *Southampton Away *Norwich Home *Huddersfield Away *Blackburn Away We got 11 points from those last year with not a penalty in sight. Solid platform? Edited February 22 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 I see @Mr Popodopolous and @Tim Monaghan have posted more on the Kieffer Moore “fit”. Imho we play very different to Ipswich. Manning has said he’s only playing one forward. So, had we signed Moore, it would be instead of Tommy. So, why question is - what is the tactical fit to an Liam Manning Bristol City for Kieffer Moore? I’m asking mainly because I’m not sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WECANDO Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 Either Moore or Conway. Former for me. Do a swop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 15 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I see @Mr Popodopolous and @Tim Monaghan have posted more on the Kieffer Moore “fit”. Imho we play very different to Ipswich. Manning has said he’s only playing one forward. So, had we signed Moore, it would be instead of Tommy. So, why question is - what is the tactical fit to an Liam Manning Bristol City for Kieffer Moore? I’m asking mainly because I’m not sure. Well on the basis Conway doesn't fit Manning's style of play one who does would have been a benefit whether that have been Moore or someone else 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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