Galley is our king Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 5 minutes ago, WECANDO said: Either Moore or Conway. Former for me. Do a swop. Moore is 31...are you serious? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 2 minutes ago, Galley is our king said: Moore is 31...are you serious? 32 come August in fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 53 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: You think he's doing a good job? He's doing OK certainly not shite as you think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 5 minutes ago, Lrrr said: Well on the basis Conway doesn't fit Manning's style of play one who does would have been a benefit whether that have been Moore or someone else What exactly is Manning's style of play. Pressing with wingers front 3, sure yes get Moore in at least wingers can service as he might like. I was under the impression Manning liked possession..aging Moore age 31 and soon to he 32? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Monaghan Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I see @Mr Popodopolous and @Tim Monaghan have posted more on the Kieffer Moore “fit”. Imho we play very different to Ipswich. Manning has said he’s only playing one forward. So, had we signed Moore, it would be instead of Tommy. So, why question is - what is the tactical fit to an Liam Manning Bristol City for Kieffer Moore? I’m asking mainly because I’m not sure. Agreed, Ipswich are a lot quicker than us moving the ball forward. But I believe that KM is as suited to a slower build up to, he just needs the service. Edited February 22 by Tim Monaghan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 (edited) Pring and Conway we just jettison? Roberts at LB is an interesting choice not that he's done anything wrong obvs. To service Moore, do we use Pring or Roberts to better effect. Edited February 22 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 47 minutes ago, Tim Monaghan said: The metric was in the OP. Please revisit that and the post it quoted. Why next season? Unlike yourself, I don't actually believe this squad is oven-ready, if by that you mean it's the complete squad capable of gaining promotion. I don't think it's far off, but certainly not oven-ready. Assuming we don't secure Twine on a permanent basis, I feel we need a left-sided player and a striker (and I agree with BT on this) in the mould of a Keiffer Moore. I was gutted when he moved to Ipswich; he seemed precisely the type of player we needed. Turns out, he's not doing too badly at the moment, scoring 4 in 5. Why next season? Because you have to give a manager time. I know that's not what you want to hear, and it's not what JL, BT, and GM said, but I've taken all of that with a pinch of salt. They're soundbites, not particularly clever ones, hence one of the reasons they've put pressure on themselves for next season. Maybe I'm not as knee-jerk as you, and maybe you're even right, but from my experience within the game (you know my history, it's well-documented), three months isn't long in football. It simply isn't long enough to make an impact. Of course, you will have the odd anomaly of a manager, and we can also cite names on the flip side that took seasons to properly bed in like Sir Alex. So, we are essentially saying the same thing, but we just have a different timescale. You think we have an oven-ready squad, and I don't think we're quite there yet. The reason I got on to you yesterday was that you weren't much on to Pearson after he joined when he arguably had a better squad. You didn't even question it. But I'm not having this conversation again, so we will just have to park that. Why am I excited about Manning and why do I think he's a good fit for the club? Because I believe he is a young, intelligent manager who wants to play the game the way I like to watch it. He also has a good history of working with youth players. We've seen flashes of how Manning likes to play in games vs Watford, Southampton, Coventry, all four FA Cup games, etc. This is the football I was looking for, and I was excited about Manning. But, we have also seen some of his tactical naivety; let's take the Leeds game and QPR as examples. However, if he got it right all of the time, he certainly wouldn't be managing Bristol City, and I'm happy to give him the allowance as I've mentioned; it's been three months, and he is still learning too. So, my metric as to why next season the pressure is on (although I've answered this already) is that you have to take the situation as a whole. The top brass have said what they've said. I feel like Manning needs time to fully bed in and get a grasp on what he needs and a summer transfer window to obtain those players. We have no pressure on FFP, and technically we could spend a decent amount bringing us to a point where Manning has to deliver due to what JL has ultimately promised, and there shouldn't be any excuse why this can't be done. I'm just not sure why my pre season expectations should change just because weve got a new guy at the helm? He came in here and his starting position was much better than any manager here has inherited for decades. He didn't need to get the players fit, didn't need to get rid of dead wood, didn't need to build a culture. All he had to do was "coach on the grass" and that's why (and you may find this unfair) my expectations were elevated. All the ground work had been done for him. The foundations had been built. In fact the house had been built, he just needed to put the roof on. There would have been a manager out there who could have got this squad to achieve my expections this season and that's why I think it's fair game to criticise Manning for not doing so. I suppose where I'm at, I've not seen anything that suggests that even with a pre season and being allowed to spend money, he'll be able to achieve success here. I think he's out of his depth personally right now. Can you name me 3 positives from Mannings time here so far? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I see @Mr Popodopolous and @Tim Monaghan have posted more on the Kieffer Moore “fit”. Imho we play very different to Ipswich. Manning has said he’s only playing one forward. So, had we signed Moore, it would be instead of Tommy. So, why question is - what is the tactical fit to an Liam Manning Bristol City for Kieffer Moore? I’m asking mainly because I’m not sure. I'm not sure either Dave. Not sure I'd be getting rid of Tommy with so much potential growth too albeit only summer 2025 as it stands so there's that. Conway the better technical player than Moore? His first season and especially at Rotherham in October there were some goals self-created, scored out of nothing pretty much. Not all but some. Edited February 22 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Monaghan Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: What exactly is Manning's style of play. Pressing with wingers front 3, sure yes get Moore in at least wingers can service as he might like. I was under the impression Manning liked possession..aging Moore age 31 and soon to he 32? Can I just clarify that Keffier Moore is the "sort" of player I would like us to try and get. He doesn't the clubs profile though due to his age. If I were to pick someone off the top of my head, it would be someone in the Miles Leaburn mold. Sorry I'm not expanding, I'm trying to look after to screaming kids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Red Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 19 minutes ago, Tim Monaghan said: Agreed, Ipswich are a lot quicker than us moving the ball forward. But I believe that KM is as suited to a slower build up to, he just needs the service. Pring and Vyner are better. Max Bird will also likely start. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 6 minutes ago, Super said: He's doing OK certainly not shite as you think. No win Win No win No win No win No win Win Win Win No win No win No win No win No win No win Win Win No win 9 points from 9, 2 wins from 9, 6 wins from 18. Its not OK, it's shite. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rs Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, Galley is our king said: Still on going isn't it? Lies around the lad just arrived from Belgium. Shocking "leadership" What’s this about? Haven’t heard anything about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Monaghan Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 12 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: I'm just not sure why my pre season expectations should change just because weve got a new guy at the helm? He came in here and his starting position was much better than any manager here has inherited for decades. He didn't need to get the players fit, didn't need to get rid of dead wood, didn't need to build a culture. All he had to do was "coach on the grass" and that's why (and you may find this unfair) my expectations were elevated. All the ground work had been done for him. The foundations had been built. In fact the house had been built, he just needed to put the roof on. There would have been a manager out there who could have got this squad to achieve my expections this season and that's why I think it's fair game to criticise Manning for not doing so. I suppose where I'm at, I've not seen anything that suggests that even with a pre season and being allowed to spend money, he'll be able to achieve success here. I think he's out of his depth personally right now. Can you name me 3 positives from Mannings time here so far? Good question, you won't agree with me, but: Defensive Improvement: Manning has emphasized a better defensive solidity IMO. Tactical Adaptation and Maturity: Despite not always converting chances into wins, Manning’s tactical approach has allowed us to dominate play and create more decent opportunities. The team’s maturity in handling challenging situations, as seen in their away performances, bodes well for our future development. Possession-Based Approach: I think we are more composed and thoughtful in possession. I love how Manning is encouraging the team to retain the ball and build up play patiently. This contrasts with more direct approaches seen in the past which sometimes was a bit hit and hope at times. High Press and Intensity: This has been maintained, but I think we actually do a better job under Liam. I'm finding that players engage opponents higher up the pitch. Set Pieces: We are far more dangerous I know you didn't ask for 4. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Monaghan Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 10 minutes ago, Better Red said: Pring and Vyner are better. Max Bird will also likely start. Valid point, forgot about him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 2 minutes ago, George Rs said: What’s this about? Haven’t heard anything about that When asked why Medube hadn’t played much in Belgium, both Tinnion and Manning said it was work permit issues - Liam said that DM hadn’t played for three months because of it. Anyway, turns out that was a straight out lie. The only permit issue was where Dire was one day late for a Turkish training camp due to it. He was able to play, not injured for his whole time at Westerlo - just wasn’t selected as he wasn’t deemed to be the best choice. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Tim Monaghan said: Good question, you won't agree with me, but: Defensive Improvement: Manning has emphasized a better defensive solidity IMO. Tactical Adaptation and Maturity: Despite not always converting chances into wins, Manning’s tactical approach has allowed us to dominate play and create more decent opportunities. The team’s maturity in handling challenging situations, as seen in their away performances, bodes well for our future development. Possession-Based Approach: I think we are more composed and thoughtful in possession. I love how Manning is encouraging the team to retain the ball and build up play patiently. This contrasts with more direct approaches seen in the past which sometimes was a bit hit and hope at times. High Press and Intensity: This has been maintained, but I think we actually do a better job under Liam. I'm finding that players engage opponents higher up the pitch. Set Pieces: We are far more dangerous I know you didn't ask for 4. Of course, let’s ignore the fact that when we’ve won games we’ve done it with less possession which makes points 2 and 3 frankly bizarre Edit - I think Fevs may also have analysis that shows Liams producing less xG! Edited February 22 by Silvio Dante 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tim Monaghan said: Good question, you won't agree with me, but: Defensive Improvement: Manning has emphasized a better defensive solidity IMO. Tactical Adaptation and Maturity: Despite not always converting chances into wins, Manning’s tactical approach has allowed us to dominate play and create more decent opportunities. The team’s maturity in handling challenging situations, as seen in their away performances, bodes well for our future development. Possession-Based Approach: I think we are more composed and thoughtful in possession. I love how Manning is encouraging the team to retain the ball and build up play patiently. This contrasts with more direct approaches seen in the past which sometimes was a bit hit and hope at times. High Press and Intensity: This has been maintained, but I think we actually do a better job under Liam. I'm finding that players engage opponents higher up the pitch. Set Pieces: We are far more dangerous I know you didn't ask for 4. On the first point, we were always going to be solid with a back 4 of Pring, Dickie, Vyner, Tanner/McCrorie. As Dickie and McCrorie are here I'm have expected a bit of time for them to gel. So i'm not sure if that slight improvement is down to Manning or down to time. I think I'm going to have to refer the rest of my response on this to @Davefevs His article to the Bristol Live article was very interesting and also answers a lot of this. https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-liam-manning-achilles-9112040 Edited February 22 by W-S-M Seagull 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rs Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 27 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: I'm just not sure why my pre season expectations should change just because weve got a new guy at the helm? He came in here and his starting position was much better than any manager here has inherited for decades. He didn't need to get the players fit, didn't need to get rid of dead wood, didn't need to build a culture. All he had to do was "coach on the grass" and that's why (and you may find this unfair) my expectations were elevated. All the ground work had been done for him. The foundations had been built. In fact the house had been built, he just needed to put the roof on. There would have been a manager out there who could have got this squad to achieve my expections this season and that's why I think it's fair game to criticise Manning for not doing so. I suppose where I'm at, I've not seen anything that suggests that even with a pre season and being allowed to spend money, he'll be able to achieve success here. I think he's out of his depth personally right now. Can you name me 3 positives from Mannings time here so far? Never (or extremely rarely) been “out of a game” only lost by a margin of more then 1 goal once. Played 4 games against premier league opposition and didn’t lose any of them. Has Joe Williams playing the best football of his city career, by a mile as well. Improved our gpg ratio from 1.07 to 1.22. Improved our defence as per stats shown on latest Bristol sport article. Majorly improved our ability to trigger a press and gain possession off the back of it. Do any of these things make him better than someone else who could’ve came in? Not necessarily. But stats and figures can be pulled from anywhere to suggest he’s out of his depth or suggest he’s doing a brilliant job. They don’t tell a full picture. And I don’t think you get a full picture without giving him a pre-season, I’d be inclined to do so over the alternative which could destabilise the team which is in the best position it’s been in for years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rs Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 12 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said: When asked why Medube hadn’t played much in Belgium, both Tinnion and Manning said it was work permit issues - Liam said that DM hadn’t played for three months because of it. Anyway, turns out that was a straight out lie. The only permit issue was where Dire was one day late for a Turkish training camp due to it. He was able to play, not injured for his whole time at Westerlo - just wasn’t selected as he wasn’t deemed to be the best choice. Ahh interesting, doesn’t really surprise me anymore. I thought he was injured for a while tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 3 minutes ago, George Rs said: Never (or extremely rarely) been “out of a game” only lost by a margin of more then 1 goal once. Played 4 games against premier league opposition and didn’t lose any of them. Has Joe Williams playing the best football of his city career, by a mile as well. Improved our gpg ratio from 1.07 to 1.22. Improved our defence as per stats shown on latest Bristol sport article. Majorly improved our ability to trigger a press and gain possession off the back of it. Do any of these things make him better than someone else who could’ve came in? Not necessarily. But stats and figures can be pulled from anywhere to suggest he’s out of his depth or suggest he’s doing a brilliant job. They don’t tell a full picture. And I don’t think you get a full picture without giving him a pre-season, I’d be inclined to do so over the alternative which could destabilise the team which is in the best position it’s been in for years. Problem is George, we're not in those games to win them either! Leeds game for example. We were never even it it to get a point despite losing by just the 1 goal. Prior to Mannings arrival this season we had only lost by a margin of more than 1 on two occasions with one being against Cardiff where we barely had 11 fit players. So is that really a positive? Joe Williams is a difficult one to quantify. It's undeniable that his time here has been hampered by injury and a lot of work has gone in to get him playing regularly. I think we would probably be saying the same output from Joe regardless of the manager because of the work to get him fit. Let's not pretend he's putting in 9s and 10s each week. The Bristol Live article shows we've changed our press and are now worse in the pressing stats as we are more happy to drop into the block rather than press. You mention the team is in the best position it has been for years and I agree. I'm of the opinion that giving him a pre season could destabilise the team because I think it's really scraping the barrel to find any real noticeable positives that have made a difference. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galley is our king Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 15 minutes ago, George Rs said: Ahh interesting, doesn’t really surprise me anymore. I thought he was injured for a while tbh. Terrible isn't it that you are lied to by a senior club official...and it doesn't surprise you.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 36 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: No win Win No win No win No win No win Win Win Win No win No win No win No win No win No win Win Win No win 9 points from 9, 2 wins from 9, 6 wins from 18. Its not OK, it's shite. @Super rather than face palming my reply, how about you try and defend this shite record? Instead of constantly using fsce palms and laughing reactions, debate my posts. If you can't, that says it all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 3 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: Problem is George, we're not in those games to win them either! Leeds game for example. We were never even it it to get a point despite losing by just the 1 goal. Prior to Mannings arrival this season we had only lost by a margin of more than 1 on two occasions with one being against Cardiff where we barely had 11 fit players. So is that really a positive? Joe Williams is a difficult one to quantify. It's undeniable that his time here has been hampered by injury and a lot of work has gone in to get him playing regularly. I think we would probably be saying the same output from Joe regardless of the manager because of the work to get him fit. Let's not pretend he's putting in 9s and 10s each week. The Bristol Live article shows we've changed our press and are now worse in the pressing stats as we are more happy to drop into the block rather than press. You mention the team is in the best position it has been for years and I agree. I'm of the opinion that giving him a pre season could destabilise the team because I think it's really scraping the barrel to find any real noticeable positives that have made a difference. Leeds have taken plenty of teams apart so that's complete nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 36 minutes ago, Tim Monaghan said: Agreed, Ipswich are a lot quicker than us moving the ball forward. But I believe that KM is as suited to a slower build up to, he just needs the service. I think that’s my point…how does he get the service that Tommy isn’t? Or are you suggesting we play differently because we have a Moore-type? This is the bit I can’t get my head around. Not your problem…LMs! 7 minutes ago, Tim Monaghan said: Good question, you won't agree with me, but: Defensive Improvement: Manning has emphasized a better defensive solidity IMO. Tactical Adaptation and Maturity: Despite not always converting chances into wins, Manning’s tactical approach has allowed us to dominate play and create more decent opportunities. The team’s maturity in handling challenging situations, as seen in their away performances, bodes well for our future development. Possession-Based Approach: I think we are more composed and thoughtful in possession. I love how Manning is encouraging the team to retain the ball and build up play patiently. This contrasts with more direct approaches seen in the past which sometimes was a bit hit and hope at times. High Press and Intensity: This has been maintained, but I think we actually do a better job under Liam. I'm finding that players engage opponents higher up the pitch. Set Pieces: We are far more dangerous I know you didn't ask for 4. This is where we are seeing cause and effect of Manning-ball. We are slightly more solid defensively because we retreat into a block more readily. But in doing so (setting up so structured without the ball) we are reliant on teams that overcommit (Southampton) to benefit on the counter, when we win it back. Against other structured sides that opportunity isn’t there. And we aren’t creating hardly anything from build-up back to front, against any style team. So whilst we might be more composed in possession, to what gain? That’s the biggest disappointment for me…so far. +++++ We really aren’t creating more decent opportunities. We are creating slightly less chances , and slightly worse chances - a double whammy. Defensively we are conceding slightly less chances and less good ones - the opposite double whammy! +++++ Anyone who doesn’t like data, look away! On Saturday against QPR we had 22 10+ pass sequences and our most “build-up” attacks under LM - 6. Build-up attacks are - 10+ pass sequences that end up with a shot or a touch in the opposition penalty area. We had 0 Direct attacks. Our 9 open play shots throughout the match earned us 0.43 xG (less than 0.05 per shot). 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 Just now, W-S-M Seagull said: @Super rather than face palming my reply, how about you try and defend this shite record? Instead of constantly using fsce palms and laughing reactions, debate my posts. If you can't, that says it all. I just laugh at your absolute bollox. Once you stop grieving over Pearson you'll see things differently. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 1 minute ago, Super said: I just laugh at your absolute bollox. Once you stop grieving over Pearson you'll see things differently. Some of it isn’t absolute bollax though is it? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 (edited) 1 minute ago, Davefevs said: Some of it isn’t absolute bollax though is it? Which bits? He's always had an agenda against Manning so his views are blinkered and irrelevant Edited February 22 by Super Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 1 minute ago, Super said: Leeds have taken plenty of teams apart so that's complete nonsense. Did you watch the game Super? They took us apart. They just didn't have their shooting boots on that day. We didn't even lay a glove on them. They didn't even need to get out of 1st gear. Here you are again trying to downplay something. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 Just now, Super said: Which bits? The bits about our attacking play, that our press isn’t as intense, etc. I don’t agree with every bit, but there’s plenty that is well-founded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 Even Liam Manning agrees with some of his points….let that sink in! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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