Sniffer dogs at football grounds

[Glasgow Red]

1 minute ago, Back of the Dolman said:

I’m not sure what that’s meant to signify. 
We have different opinions and that’s fine.

Best to leave it there

Yeh, lets leave it. Though a day will probably come when policing is far more authoritarian and you change your mind. Its a slippery slope for sure. And the beefed up police and dog presence is a relatively new thing as others have pointed out.

[Fjmcity]

Chap outside the turnstile with his gainfully employed animal was perfectly affable and even let me know it was Jason knight who scored after I got held up in the utter debacle that was collecting tickets

probably helped I wasn’t carrying any drugs or had any drug related residue about my clothing though.

[Glasgow Red]

2 minutes ago, Back of the Dolman said:

How are they breaking the law ?

Private security guards are not allowed to put their hands on people pretty much period. So I'm surprised if this a common thing. They will likely get fired for doing so.

[Back of the Dolman]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This is valid although what I would say, is that using shall we say more robust Security Staff can pose an issue at football as you have a very different crowd dynamic or have done for many years.

I remember pre Covid, in 2017 v Stoke a kid was pushed off a seat by a Security Guard type Steward ie probably Door Staff or something..crowd turned in a flash.

Heavy handed tactics unless clearly justified with members of a football crowd can see it turn sharply and unpredictably.

Yes I wasn’t condoning heavy handed security at football.

What I was suggesting was that if preventative and detection methods aren’t utilised(ie. Sniffer dogs) then you may well end up having more heavy handed security inside the stadium if issues occur.

[Glasgow Red]

3 minutes ago, Fjmcity said:

Chap outside the turnstile with his gainfully employed animal was perfectly affable and even let me know it was Jason knight who scored after I got held up in the utter debacle that was collecting tickets

probably helped I wasn’t carrying any drugs or had any drug related residue about my clothing though.

Amazing so many people jump to the defence of the police and their tactics given their track record in recent years. Im pretty shocked!

[Back of the Dolman]

1 minute ago, Glasgow Red said:

Private security guards are not allowed to put their hands on people pretty much period. So I'm surprised if this a common thing. They will likely get fired for doing so.

This is why I stated you know nothing about me and my tendencies as this is a subject I’m well informed on.

Section 3 of the criminal law act and common law are any person powers in relation to use of force so stewards or private security can by law lay hands on you if the circumstances are right to do so.

[Back of the Dolman]

5 minutes ago, Fjmcity said:

Chap outside the turnstile with his gainfully employed animal was perfectly affable and even let me know it was Jason knight who scored after I got held up in the utter debacle that was collecting tickets

probably helped I wasn’t carrying any drugs or had any drug related residue about my clothing though.

Was it a police officer or a private security company 

[Back of the Dolman]

2 minutes ago, Glasgow Red said:

Amazing so many people jump to the defence of the police and their tactics given their track record in recent years. Im pretty shocked!

You’re shocked that somebody has given their view on the experience that they had but it was okay for you to start a thread giving your view of the experience you had

[Kid in the Riot]

The dog that accosted me looked like he'd been getting high on his own supply tbh 

[Back of the Dolman]

20 minutes ago, Glasgow Red said:

Sounds like a cop or ex cop?

Even if that was the case, is that an issue ?

Does it mean my opinion wouldn’t count ?

[redkev]

43 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

To be fair Fordy, Police regard football fans as a soft target.

I dont expect you to agree with that of course.

No way is there the level or approach of policing at other events in Bristol I could name, which are rife with drugtaking and violence.

Hit nail on head natch, as a football fan you have no rights whatsoever, if old bill want to label you with something they will and you would do well to get out of it , 

One little story that just shows what happens , quite a few years ago went to qpr went with my 2 lads18 & 20 at the time ,firstly sat in a boozer with lots of other city fans no hint of trouble whatsoever suddenly old bill turn up DRINK UP WERE WALKING YOU TO THE GROUND ) shouts the big cheese , after a few grumbles were put in an escourt and started marching to the ground as were walking my lads shoelaces came undone as he bends down to do it up he is kicked right in the small of his back really hard ( he was in agony ) get a move on keep walking shouts the copper I approach the copper to be within seconds taken to the ground by 2 other coppers and hands put behind my back and told in no uncertain terms shut the xxxx up or your nicked , my crime questioning the bully copper who kicked my son for xxxx all  , can people also remember the Walsall fiasco with coppers dragging city fans out of the queue to get in the ground for nothing more than smelling of alcohol ( not drunk ) just smelling of alcohol or anybody reacting to the police pulling people out of the queue. I could go on , this is what I mean about football fans have virtually no rights .

I don’t go to the rugby often but when I have and at twickers  and in Cardiff I have seen people absolutely bolloxed falling about within the crowd , causing problems , and sniffing the white marching powder and not a thing done . 

[maxjak]

9 hours ago, Bristolisredd said:

If you’ve got nothing to hide you should have nothing to worry about 

Yeah...........God Bless Freedom!  While i appreciate the need to be vigilant in certain circumstances, this is yet another step to control people and take away their rights.  This kind of action,  alongside Anti protest laws are just another brick in the wall to monitor individuals?  IMO                            

[redkev]

I do believe Forest and there stewards have history for being rather heavy handed 

[kiwicolin]

My partner is afraid of dogs , so it's a good job we didn't go. 

[Bristolisredd]

What were to happen if a city fan chucked a flare and it hit an elderly person … people in here would be saying why werent the fans properly searched before the game 

[KendrickDNB]

 

5 hours ago, Back of the Dolman said:

Was it a police officer or a private security company 

He was private security, I had a chat with him on the way in as well and wished us all the best for the game.

Edited February 9 by KendrickDNB

[W-S-M Seagull]

11 hours ago, Glasgow Red said:

Sorry but id rather run the risk of being with what you describe as "tanked up bellends" than being made to feel like a criminal for no reason. 

I went to the game last night. I was quickly patted down upon entry and I smoothed the dog on the way in.

At no point did that make me feel like a criminal or even uncomfortable and its bizarre that you felt that way and that you'd rather be with the tanked up people. 

It's not for no reason is it? It's to ensure people are not bringing in things to the ground that can hurt people. The vast majority of us accept that whilst its not nice to be patted down, it's for our own safety. 

I just can't quite get it into my head why you would have a problem with the police ensuring that public event is safe? 

But yea lets just stop all these searches and put the public at risk just so you don't feel uncomfortable with authority. 

However the vast majority of us are reassured that authority are keeping us safe. 

Ultimately, if you wish to enter a private premises such as a football stadium then the rules and regulations state they can search you etc. That's a condition of entry. If you don't want to be searched etc then you have the option of simply not attending. 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

8 hours ago, Glasgow Red said:

Amazing so many people jump to the defence of the police and their tactics given their track record in recent years. Im pretty shocked!

Amazing that people like you are complaining about searches etc given the attacks that have happened in this country. 

It was only a few weeks ago that a guy was sentenced for killing 3 people with a knife in Nottingham. 

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

18 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

A wine shop? 

Bargain Booze.

[bexhill reds]

My sister in law used to work in the security control room at Fulham acting as the liaison point between the club stewards and the old bill on match days. She was staggered at the amount of class A and class B that was confiscated on match days, it does seem that recreational drug use and football are becoming more intrinsic. Perhaps it’s a generational thing, in my son’s age group (early 20s), coke seems to be part of the night out, whereas when I was his age it was the rich man’s yuppie drug.

I suspect walking past a drugs dog as well as a disinterested pat down may well become the norm.

[Bernard Lerring]

Last time we played at forest in the league they weren't serving any alcohol at half time. When we questioned the bar staff in the concourse, the answer was that they choose not to do so for certain clubs.

Seems as though Forest have City earmarked as potentially causing problems, which might explain the many dogs?

[bexhill reds]

26 minutes ago, Bernard Lerring said:

Last time we played at forest in the league they weren't serving any alcohol at half time. When we questioned the bar staff in the concourse, the answer was that they choose not to do so for certain clubs.

Seems as though Forest have City earmarked as potentially causing problems, which might explain the many dogs?

I was going to put something to that effect in my post about the sister in law at Fulham, her feedback on City fans at Craven Cottage was that an element of our away support created more trouble than they had when Millwall were down there, and as much as our away following is very good, like all clubs there is definitely a darker element with a bit of a reputation which clearly club security teams are become more aware of in their match day planning.

[Steve Watts]

8 hours ago, Bristolisredd said:

What were to happen if a city fan chucked a flare and it hit an elderly person … people in here would be saying why werent the fans properly searched before the game 

And some would be going "ugh... No one died... No pyro, no party"

[Steve Watts]

15 hours ago, Glasgow Red said:

Sorry but id rather run the risk of being with what you describe as "tanked up bellends" than being made to feel like a criminal for no reason. If that's the trade off then I 100% stand on the side of not having police treat good citizens like that.

Well that says an awful lot more about "people like you" (as you put it) than it does about many others on the thread. I know who's company I'd rather be in.

[alexukhc]

Half the guys on coke, I could sell a bag of snow and they wouldn’t know the difference…

On a cold wednesday night tho, I don’t get it, done enough in my past not now though, last time I did it I couldn’t put anymore up my nose but felt the same yet my mate was rolling round the floor chatting shit I thought **** this, waste of time

and now they’re making a film called marching powder, that’ll breed a whole new lot of stone island wannabes 

[xerox6060]

22 hours ago, archie andrews said:

If you aint doing anything wrong whats the problem.... This sort of thing been happening for years worst thing was the s60s stop and search at the match.... 

Agreed, couldnt care less and expect it, never once think about privacy or human rights or stuff like that ...

[supercidered]

22 hours ago, TV Tom said:

I don't like dogs and i don't particularly want one sniffing my balls

Reminds me of the old Thursday nights at the Mauretania on Park Street.

(probably lost on anyone under 50!).

[IAmNick]

6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I went to the game last night. I was quickly patted down upon entry and I smoothed the dog on the way in.

At no point did that make me feel like a criminal or even uncomfortable and its bizarre that you felt that way and that you'd rather be with the tanked up people. 

It's not for no reason is it? It's to ensure people are not bringing in things to the ground that can hurt people. The vast majority of us accept that whilst its not nice to be patted down, it's for our own safety. 

I just can't quite get it into my head why you would have a problem with the police ensuring that public event is safe? 

But yea lets just stop all these searches and put the public at risk just so you don't feel uncomfortable with authority. 

However the vast majority of us are reassured that authority are keeping us safe. 

Ultimately, if you wish to enter a private premises such as a football stadium then the rules and regulations state they can search you etc. That's a condition of entry. If you don't want to be searched etc then you have the option of simply not attending. 

 

Both things can be true though right - we want to feel safe at events, but we should also be aware of what impact that has on our lives. I'm sure we'd all draw the line somewhere, his is just sooner than yours. I don't want to be frisked at every game, searched by dogs, have my photo taken, and so on "just in case" - I don't think that's right.

I also think it's a bit of a poor argument overall as I don't get searched at home games - do you? Do you feel unsafe at them because people may have weapons in the ground as a result? I don't.

Given the huge oversteps "authority" routinely makes in the name of keeping us safe, as well as the police's historic relation with football fans I'm certainly not "reassured" they're keeping us safe. I accept they have a hard job and I have no issue with the people doing it as individuals.

I'm not convinced that the searches really have any positive effect to be honest, although I'd be happy to see the evidence otherwise.

  

6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Amazing that people like you are complaining about searches etc given the attacks that have happened in this country. 

It was only a few weeks ago that a guy was sentenced for killing 3 people with a knife in Nottingham. 

At a football match? Did he avoid a search somehow which otherwise would have caught him? Or is this point completely irrelevant?

Edited February 9 by IAmNick

[italian dave]

7 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Both things can be true though right - we want to feel safe at events, but we should also be aware of what impact that has on our lives. I'm sure we'd all draw the line somewhere, his is just sooner than yours. I don't want to be frisked at every game, searched by dogs, have my photo taken, and so on "just in case" - I don't think that's right.

I also think it's a bit of a poor argument overall as I don't get searched at home games - do you? Do you feel unsafe at them because people may have weapons in the ground as a result? I don't.

Given the huge oversteps "authority" routinely makes in the name of keeping us safe, as well as the police's historic relation with football fans I'm certainly not "reassured" they're keeping us safe. I accept they have a hard job and I have no issue with the people doing it as individuals.

I'm not convinced that the searches really have any positive effect to be honest, although I'd be happy to see the evidence otherwise.

 

I think the point is that this thread is about the sniffer dogs, and specifically those at Forest.

I understand where you’re coming from in terms of the photos, the searches etc. I accept the reasons for the searches - at my age most of them tend to be pretty cursory anyway. I’m less comfortable with someone pointing a camera at me. I get really irritated at grounds where they won’t let you keep a cap on a water bottle.

But compared to all those things, having a dog amble past me sniffing the air around me really doesn’t seem like something to get too upset about! 

Edited February 9 by italian dave

[IAmNick]

Just now, italian dave said:

I think the point is that this thread is about the sniffer dogs, and specifically those at Forest.

I understand where you’re coming from in terms of the photos, the searches etc. I accept the reasons for the searches - at my age most of them tend to be pretty cursory anyway. I’m less comfortable with someone pointing a camera at me. I get really irritated at grounds where they won’t let you keep a cap on a water bottle.

But compared to all those things, having a dog walk past me sniffing the air around me really doesn’t seem like something to get too upset about! 

Yeah fair point. I guess I was more thinking about the "If you're got nothing to hide why do you care" comments - I think that's a dangerous mentality to have. Rights are hard won, and easily given away!

The dogs don't really bother me personally either, but I can understand where those who are bothered by them are coming from.