TGH joins Brum on season long loan

[petehinton]

I’d heard within the first month or so of him being here that it was near enough wrapped up to become a perm deal in Jan. 

Always suspected this was very much a “club” deal (a Tinnion led one) when the deal was then done in Jan, than a manager one.
 

A case of ‘well, we’ve gone quite far down the line now to pull out…’, was already in the building, fee was ok, and was useful to the squad at the time. 

Max Bird was also a pre-manning one, that much is obvious as we tried to sign him last August, but we had the luxury of not being committed to anything.

In the end this probably suits everyone, but created a fairly needless mess of it. 

[Sleepy1968]

57 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s quite poetic Ian.  I like it.

I like because it's a very good summary, and makes about 30,000 posts over the last 10 months redundant.

Most of us are happy to judge LM on what he does with his team.

I don't know enough to make an informed judgement on how the transfer business impacts where we could hope to finish.

But I'm more optimistic than I was pre transfer window, and I'm looking forward to how the season plays out.

[Bs4Red]

20 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Some of us were saying this from the start, and there is more than one way to skin a cat. To go back to an oft quoted theme that I’ve investigated, he’s not a coach that utilises youth (this season will be his fourth and he’s not developed an academy player to enduring first team yet), he’s not a coach who can improve an existing team on the grass, he is a coach who needs his own players and has a preferred methodology.

And to be clear, that doesn’t in isolation (a) make him a bad coach and (b) different from 99% of other coaches

Most coaches, unless desparate or you have an exceptional talent, seek to wholesale use youth. It’s madness to do so in view of an average coach life span.

And if there is a view that players are unadaptable, equally a lot of coaches can be so as well.

What it does say is that we didn’t do our due diligence (I think I said that before too!) Jon and Brian saw young coach with Liams background, Liam gave a stock answer he’s given at every job of wanting to use the academy and they got stars in their eyes.

If we’d wanted to continue to develop the team and club, in line with the clubs ethos of academy development, it was the wrong appointment.

But as you say - we are where we are. Hes no different to 99.9% of managers where his results are in direct proportion to resources that are (a) Of sufficient quality and (b) the way the coach wants to play.

So, where we are now is Liam has everything he wants. I have an inkling that he’s played the situation with JL/BT as he sussed the longer he was here last season that they couldn’t allow him to fail, so he’s out the squeeze on for the change in tack. Possibly a genius move.

Equally, for Jon and Brian, nobody can now accuse them of not backing the coach. The pressure is now all on him but they share in the success

And for Liam, he now has no better opportunity to show exactly what he can do with exactly what he wants.

I agree with parts of this, however not all of it. 
LM is clearly a coach who believes he can improve players, that’s why we have signed a lot of “unknowns” at the level. 
 

Fally, Armstrong, Bird, Mcguane, Earthy. 
 

All have very little championship experience, he has moved on players with lots of championship experience and I would guess (cannot be arsed to research) he has reduced our overall squad average age. 
 

This huge thing around improving academy talent is always slightly skewed in the fact that these players have to be remotely good enough. 
None of them are at that level yet, hence Stokes loan along with a few others. 
 

Obviously he has been given what he feels he needs but as has been mentioned above, he certainly hasn’t been given a major overhaul. Similar number of purchases as each year. In terms of every club, I don’t believe anyone could compete in this league without reinforcements each season. 
 

He has clearly worked within a wage budget getting rid of a few high earners and bringing in lots of potential. Wouldn’t quite call it “moneyball” method but it’s clear we are signing players who have potential with the right coaching and an obvious opportunity of “sell on value” 

 

Agree of course he has been given players that “suit” his system but seems naive to think that wasn’t always going to be the case. 

[Bs4Red]

18 minutes ago, petehinton said:

I’d heard within the first month or so of him being here that it was near enough wrapped up to become a perm deal in Jan. 

Always suspected this was very much a “club” deal (a Tinnion led one) when the deal was then done in Jan, than a manager one.
 

A case of ‘well, we’ve gone quite far down the line now to pull out…’, was already in the building, fee was ok, and was useful to the squad at the time. 

Max Bird was also a pre-manning one, that much is obvious as we tried to sign him last August, but we had the luxury of not being committed to anything.

In the end this probably suits everyone, but created a fairly needless mess of it. 

It’s absolutely no fun without a little mess mate, we are Bristol City after all! 

[Davefevs]

54 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

and it was likely pre agreed regarding appearances or other clauses

It wasn’t.

[Davefevs]

45 minutes ago, petehinton said:

I’d heard within the first month or so of him being here that it was near enough wrapped up to become a perm deal in Jan. 

Always suspected this was very much a “club” deal (a Tinnion led one) when the deal was then done in Jan, than a manager one.
 

A case of ‘well, we’ve gone quite far down the line now to pull out…’, was already in the building, fee was ok, and was useful to the squad at the time. 

Max Bird was also a pre-manning one, that much is obvious as we tried to sign him last August, but we had the luxury of not being committed to anything.

In the end this probably suits everyone, but created a fairly needless mess of it. 

I suspect you’ll hear the same re Hirakawa.

The fact that there is an option means it’s easy to convert and pull forward if you want.  Doesn’t mean you will not have to.

+++++

I don’t think we tried to sign Max Bird last summer.  He was in our radar, but Knight was who we went after.

Edited August 23 by Davefevs

[Silvio Dante]

29 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

I agree with parts of this, however not all of it. 
LM is clearly a coach who believes he can improve players, that’s why we have signed a lot of “unknowns” at the level. 
 

Fally, Armstrong, Bird, Mcguane, Earthy. 
 

All have very little championship experience, he has moved on players with lots of championship experience and I would guess (cannot be arsed to research) he has reduced our overall squad average age. 
 

This huge thing around improving academy talent is always slightly skewed in the fact that these players have to be remotely good enough. 
None of them are at that level yet, hence Stokes loan along with a few others. 
 

Obviously he has been given what he feels he needs but as has been mentioned above, he certainly hasn’t been given a major overhaul. Similar number of purchases as each year. In terms of every club, I don’t believe anyone could compete in this league without reinforcements each season. 
 

He has clearly worked within a wage budget getting rid of a few high earners and bringing in lots of potential. Wouldn’t quite call it “moneyball” method but it’s clear we are signing players who have potential with the right coaching and an obvious opportunity of “sell on value” 

 

Agree of course he has been given players that “suit” his system but seems naive to think that wasn’t always going to be the case. 

Fair

My broader academy (other than youth) point (and I think I’ve bored people with it) is that if you don’t get a good input one year it’s unlucky, two years, maybe but when you get to four years without using an academy across clubs, it’s who you are.

And again, for clarity, there’s nothing wrong with that as a route to success, but if we’re being honest about what Liams approach is, then it’s only sensible to acknowledge that.

[BasSavage88]

32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It wasn’t.

How would you know? 

[REDOXO]

I like TGH and think he will have a great career. Playing regularly at Birmingham and them mounting a good promotion charge will be good for his career. 
 

Im guessing there is a loan fee and his wages are being paid which frees up a lot for the guy from Oxford. 
 

I still think there are out goings and incomings on the horizon, however thus far quite a bit has been financed by out goings! 

[Davefevs]

18 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

How would you know? 

Because sometimes I do.

[Merrick's Marvels]

3 hours ago, Ian M said:

I just think we were sold a lie of what he is as a manager, and now it is more a question of is he good at the type of the manager he actually is. This season we get to find out.

Don't disagree with your general point but not sure about this.

They wanted a new man who would:

- Spend more time on the grass coaching

- Do more detailed coaching, in the modern styleee

I don't think it was unreasonable to think that such a change would bring some sort of improvements in the squad he inherited.

So it wasn't a lie as such, more terrible, incompetent communication.... in my opinion. Others are available!

I find it hard to view Tinnion and Junior as liars, if I'm honest. They're just massively incompetent when it comes to communicating and - in general - operating way above the level their abilities are fit for.

We have a non league standard chairman and league 2 standard TD in charge of a Championship club. Not sure they spend their time consciously lying. They're just not fit for purpose.

[Oops]

How refreshing it would be to simply support the team, rather than performing a forensic examination of every decision made?

The sooner everyone accepts that nothing on OTIB has any influence over the running of the club, or transfer policy, the better.

Just try to enjoy the rollercoaster FFS

[BasSavage88]

30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Because sometimes I do.

Guess or you actually know? 

[Glen hump]

12 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Don't disagree with your general point but not sure about this.

They wanted a new man who would:

- Spend more time on the grass coaching

- Do more detailed coaching, in the modern styleee

I don't think it was unreasonable to think that such a change would bring some sort of improvements in the squad he inherited.

So it wasn't a lie as such, more terrible, incompetent communication.... in my opinion. Others are available!

I find it hard to view Tinnion and Junior as liars, if I'm honest. They're just massively incompetent when it comes to communicating and - in general - operating way above the level their abilities are fit for.

We have a non league standard chairman and league 2 standard TD in charge of a Championship club. Not sure they spend their time consciously lying. They're just not fit for purpose.

Tinnion has told blatant lies.’ work permit being 1.

[petehinton]

5 minutes ago, Glen hump said:

Tinnion has told blatant lies.’ work permit being 1.

Work permit, players never having individual programmes until LM came in, and Adam Murphy having a ‘mini pre season’ - that’s three in the space of about 9 months. 

[Natchfever]

12 minutes ago, Oops said:

How refreshing it would be to simply support the team, rather than performing a forensic examination of every decision made?

The sooner everyone accepts that nothing on OTIB has any influence over the running of the club, or transfer policy, the better.

Just try to enjoy the rollercoaster FFS

Lets shut the forum down then.

Everyone on here accepts otib has zero influence on the club but this is a place where oeople can discuss all aspects of BCFC, some posters in great detail, which I personally appreciate..

Surprised you didnt know that.

[Natchfever]

1 minute ago, petehinton said:

Work permit, players never having individual programmes until LM came in, and Adam Murphy having a ‘mini pre season’ - that’s three in the space of about 9 months. 

Club has a credibility issue at the top which I suspect Manning is trying to distance himself from.

[pongo88]

5 hours ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

No disrespect to TGH however, if Birmingham were to get promoted, I can’t see them taking the option up. They have the riches for better quality should they get promoted. Would’ve pushed for a perm. Hopefully we’ve got a decent loan fee. What a weird permanent signing for us at the time - flattered to deceive during his loan. 

 

5 hours ago, One Team said:

I guess I am in a minority here then, but I quite rated him actually. He had some poor performances of course but also some very good ones so there was a decent player in there. 

I’m in the @One Team camp and can see him doing well at Birmingham. If he has a good season, and they get promoted, it would make sense for them to take up the option of a permanent signing. It would provide some stability in the squad and the fee would be low 

[Sir Geoff]

2 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

I agree with parts of this, however not all of it. 
LM is clearly a coach who believes he can improve players, that’s why we have signed a lot of “unknowns” at the level. 
 

Fally, Armstrong, Bird, Mcguane, Earthy. 
 

All have very little championship experience, he has moved on players with lots of championship experience and I would guess (cannot be arsed to research) he has reduced our overall squad average age. 
 

This huge thing around improving academy talent is always slightly skewed in the fact that these players have to be remotely good enough. 
None of them are at that level yet, hence Stokes loan along with a few others. 
 

Obviously he has been given what he feels he needs but as has been mentioned above, he certainly hasn’t been given a major overhaul. Similar number of purchases as each year. In terms of every club, I don’t believe anyone could compete in this league without reinforcements each season. 
 

He has clearly worked within a wage budget getting rid of a few high earners and bringing in lots of potential. Wouldn’t quite call it “moneyball” method but it’s clear we are signing players who have potential with the right coaching and an obvious opportunity of “sell on value” 

 

Agree of course he has been given players that “suit” his system but seems naive to think that wasn’t always going to be the case. 

Point 1. We signed 2 players permanently last summer Knight and Dickie, plus TGH (on loan) late in the window to cover for GT 

Point 2. That's great if the club does well. If it bombs so do those "sell on values" (no idea why you used speach marks).

[Merrick's Marvels]

41 minutes ago, Glen hump said:

Tinnion has told blatant lies.’ work permit being 1.

I just think he's an idiot!

To be a conniving liar, you've got to be halfway clever.

He's not. He's a dumb Geordie (there are plenty) whose Left foot and spacial awareness on a football pitch far exceed his IQ off it. 

Windy way of saying - good player, rubbish TD.

Edited August 23 by Merrick's Marvels

[DT The Optimist]

1 hour ago, Oops said:

How refreshing it would be to simply support the team, rather than performing a forensic examination of every decision made?

The sooner everyone accepts that nothing on OTIB has any influence over the running of the club, or transfer policy, the better.

Just try to enjoy the rollercoaster FFS

Spot on  OTIB full of keyboard warriors  ( i include myself)who know better ( or think they do) than the people who run Bcfc .

However you have to accept it is a ‘forum’ for the airing  of views and thoughts…   But this forum is no better or worse than almost any other. 
when we do well, the agendas and noise diminish. When we struggle… head down 

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, Oops said:

How refreshing it would be to simply support the team, rather than performing a forensic examination of every decision made?

The sooner everyone accepts that nothing on OTIB has any influence over the running of the club, or transfer policy, the better.

Just try to enjoy the rollercoaster FFS

I have some sympathy with this. However if anyone thinks that people at the club don’t know what is said here, you would be deceiving yourself. 
 

Some posters have relationships with people that are associated with the club and of course the blog masters were recently invited to the HPC. 

So yes their is influence, but it’s limited. 

20 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

Spot on  OTIB full of keyboard warriors  ( i include myself)who know better ( or think they do) than the people who run Bcfc .

However you have to accept it is a ‘forum’ for the airing  of views and thoughts…   But this forum is no better or worse than almost any other. 
when we do well, the agendas and noise diminish. When we struggle… head down 

The human condition! 
 

This forum is pretty tame compared to many!

[Dr Balls]

On 22/08/2024 at 12:30, Davefevs said:

FWIW, as a simple metric of 2 league games this season, the average passing success rate for a Championship CMer is 85%.

I think he’s a reasonable player too.

Agree that he’s a reasonable player but now having seen Bird, I know who I would be more upset losing. That said TGH did still score the best goal of last season, and it’s not just me saying that…

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/video/features/top-10-goals-from-2023-24/

[BeggyBlaggers]

Maybe TGH backs himself to be more than a bit part player - hes got the opportunity to go to arguably a bigger club (despite being poorly ran the last few years) and more than likely get a promotion medal next May......and if we are all honest chances are, birmingham will challenge to get to the premier league long before bristol city even muster a top 8 league finish.

[Offside]

I like TGH as a player, but he was unlikely to be a regular starter for City this season so this move seems to make sense for all parties. Best wishes to him. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

Spot on  OTIB full of keyboard warriors  ( i include myself)who know better ( or think they do) than the people who run Bcfc .

However you have to accept it is a ‘forum’ for the airing  of views and thoughts…   But this forum is no better or worse than almost any other. 
when we do well, the agendas and noise diminish. When we struggle… head down 

In all honesty, this Forum is in a lot of ways like many but actually I would say at times the depth of analysis of Football, Finances and Tactics and so on- looking to match words to actions and analysing consistency of approach and actions, it exceeds quite a few others I have seen.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 hours ago, Natchfever said:

Lets shut the forum down then.

Everyone on here accepts otib has zero influence on the club but this is a place where oeople can discuss all aspects of BCFC, some posters in great detail, which I personally appreciate..

Surprised you didnt know that.

A vital outlet tbh.

A counter balance to the (understandable) wish of the Club to solely control the narrative.

I get why a Club or Organisation may wish to control the narrative, in fact I would expect it but analysis, seeking even if ultimately in vain to highlight inconsistency, to hold power brokers to account etc..vital IMO. 

Edited August 23 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

Agree that he’s a reasonable player but now having seen Bird, I know who I would be more upset losing. That said TGH did still score the best goal of last season, and it’s not just me saying that…

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/video/features/top-10-goals-from-2023-24/

Of course, if Bird Vs TGH, keep and develop Bird any day.

Bird and Knight are our clear first choice as it stands.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

14 hours ago, BeggyBlaggers said:

Maybe TGH backs himself to be more than a bit part player - hes got the opportunity to go to arguably a bigger club (despite being poorly ran the last few years) and more than likely get a promotion medal next May......and if we are all honest chances are, birmingham will challenge to get to the premier league long before bristol city even muster a top 8 league finish.

That's the spirit and it's only your 4th post.

Welcome.

[DT The Optimist]

11 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

In all honesty, this Forum is in a lot of ways like many but actually I would say at times the depth of analysis of Football, Finances and Tactics and so on- looking to match words to actions and analysing consistency of approach and actions, it exceeds quite a few others I have seen.

Agree Pop.. but a hilarious one was the Sheff Wed Owls one when the chairman owner stated if fans did not stop moaning & groaning he was going to withdraw funding… meltdown  … wish Uncle Steve  would do that.    

[GrahamC]

16 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

I just think he's an idiot!

To be a conniving liar, you've got to be halfway clever.

He's not. He's a dumb Geordie (there are plenty) whose Left foot and spacial awareness on a football pitch far exceed his IQ off it. 

Windy way of saying - good player, rubbish TD.

Sort of agree but think he lies because of the above.

Isn’t smart enough to ever answer the question without answering the question (something the likes of Danny Wilson was very good at), so often either blurts out stuff he shouldn’t (like the Dickie, Cornick actual transfer fees) or gets in a fluster & then says stuff that’s blatantly untrue (young Murphy’s additional pre season when he was already injured).

His skill set is far better suited to player identification than the elevated role he now finds himself in.

As an aside very interesting that since Sheridan Robins took up post he’s saying far less publicly, I know there was the “Croatian number 10” stuff at the senior reds, but that’s not in the same league as the gaffes above.

[Boston Red]

We paid a million for TGH. This has the whiff of Marley Watkins and Gustav Engvall, where we pay big money for a player, decide we do not fancy him, and end up losing most of the money. To say nothing of 3.8 million Kasey Palmer!!!

[BeggyBlaggers]

5 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

That's the spirit and it's only your 4th post.

Welcome.

And yet i've been a fan since the 80s....... being a city fan beats the optimism out of you

[Jerseybean]

LM on rationale…..https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/manning-gardnerhickman-mcguane-bristol-city-9511501

[RedRoss]

2 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

LM on rationale…..https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/manning-gardnerhickman-mcguane-bristol-city-9511501

So now more key details have emerged. 

The option to buy is £1.5 million. 

We paid a 'mid six-figure range' fee when reduced with loaning Weimann. So £500k or am I reading that wrong?

How much do we reckon we've charged Birmingham for the season loan? I'd assume we've asked them to pay a couple of hundred grand to let him go. Even if he stays and it doesn't turn into a permanent with Birmingham, his net transfer fee may not be too bad on the whole. If he's made permanent we've made money on him. 

[Davefevs]

49 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

So now more key details have emerged. 

The option to buy is £1.5 million. 

We paid a 'mid six-figure range' fee when reduced with loaning Weimann. So £500k or am I reading that wrong?

How much do we reckon we've charged Birmingham for the season loan? I'd assume we've asked them to pay a couple of hundred grand to let him go. Even if he stays and it doesn't turn into a permanent with Birmingham, his net transfer fee may not be too bad on the whole. If he's made permanent we've made money on him. 

Sounds like part refund of a whole season loan fee, plus part reduction in fee for Weimann.

So instead of the circa £0.7m loan fee and £1.3m option to buy (£2.0m total), looks like we’ve paid something like £1.25m total.  Although it meant we carried on paying Weimann’s wages.  Fair dos.  

[Mr Popodopolous]

Find it hard to believe Weimann was on so much given he renewed when he did.

Pro Rata that would've meant we renewed Weimann on £25-30k per week??

[RedRoss]

22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Sounds like part refund of a whole season loan fee, plus part reduction in fee for Weimann.

So instead of the circa £0.7m loan fee and £1.3m option to buy (£2.0m total), looks like we’ve paid something like £1.25m total.  Although it meant we carried on paying Weimann’s wages.  Fair dos.  

Definitely fair doos. Without getting into why did we sign TGH in the first place discussion again. In isolation the deal was pretty good considering we didn't want to play Weimann due to that appearance related contract extension. He was a bit part player at the time on big money. Yes we paid his wages but we needed to nonetheless and killed two birds with one stone so to speak. 

Those details do show prudence by Tom Rawcliffe. With all the doubts surrounding his appointment and hierarchical changes at the top he seems to have got on with the job pretty well without making too much noise. 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Not the first player we’ve signed with huge optimism, only for them to disappoint.  Tony Dinning anyone?  These things happen, even at the top clubs (Jayden Sancho…).

[Numero Uno]

4 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

LM on rationale…..https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/manning-gardnerhickman-mcguane-bristol-city-9511501

I don't see anything wrong with what Liam has said there (albeit I'm not actively looking to dissect what he said in minute detail either). If we go on to make a profit from the deal then a mistake has been rectified imo. I don't mind people effectively admitting they got it wrong now and again, not something you want to be a habit but it's better than ignoring the truth and hoping it all comes good.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Find it hard to believe Weimann was on so much given he renewed when he did.

Pro Rata that would've meant we renewed Weimann on £25-30k per week??

Hence why I’m saying that “saving” was part Weimann, part loan-rebate.  Weimann probably on £12k (ish)

Edited August 27 by Davefevs

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Hence why I’m saying that “saving” was part Weimann, part loan-rebate.  Weimann probably on £12k (ish)

£12kish sounds about right, thanks..

Being a bit slow here but Loan Rebate..if £1.3m plus £0.7m or was it totalling £1.3m including Loan Fee?

[Davefevs]

37 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

£12kish sounds about right, thanks..

Being a bit slow here but Loan Rebate..if £1.3m plus £0.7m or was it totalling £1.3m including Loan Fee?

See my post earlier

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

See my post earlier

I did and iirc..from last year.

£1.3m Permanent Option, plus £0.7m Loan Fee for TGH.

We paid 6 figures as per the Article.

The Weimann wage reduced this to the 6 figures, offset.

Weimann was there 6 months give it take.

Which bit am I missing? I'm missing a part I'm sure.

The Weimann wages offset £0.75m of the Loan Fee Plus Fee. He was only there for 6 months.

Edited August 27 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I did and iirc..from last year.

£1.3m Permanent Option, plus £0.7m Loan Fee for TGH.

We paid 6 figures as per the Article.

The Weimann wage reduced this to the 6 figures, offset.

Weimann was there 6 months give it take.

Which bit am I missing? I'm missing a part I'm sure.

I’m saying they’re being smart about the way they communicating the fee, which is fine…it still amounts to the same money.

[Davefevs]

DMd you Mr P, but even then I don’t think I’ve explained it very well

[Ska Junkie]

6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Find it hard to believe Weimann was on so much given he renewed when he did.

Pro Rata that would've meant we renewed Weimann on £25-30k per week??

Didn't Weimann renew on 50% of his previous salary? 

[sh1t_ref_again]

5 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

 I don't mind people effectively admitting they got it wrong now and again, not something you want to be a habit but it's better than ignoring the truth and hoping it all comes good.

Must have read the article differently to me, not sure I seen anywhere we have alluded to getting it wrong, more down to TGH wanting to be a starter, but effectively falling further down the pecking order here,

[Numero Uno]

10 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Must have read the article differently to me, not sure I seen anywhere we have alluded to getting it wrong, more down to TGH wanting to be a starter, but effectively falling further down the pecking order here,

Signing someone permanently In January for a seven figure sum and letting them go elsewhere in August certainly isn’t the club getting it right, that’s for sure. However, the fact the club are looking to move him on is a good thing if he isn’t in the plans.

Edited August 27 by Numero Uno

[sh1t_ref_again]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

Signing someone permanently In January for a seven figure sum and letting them go elsewhere in August certainly isn’t the club getting it right, that’s for sure. However, the fact the club are looking to move him on is a good thing if he isn’t in the plans.

It's equally the club not getting it wrong when it'd seems financially we are doing well out of it and its the players ambition to be playing and asking for a move that has instigated it. Add the fact LM can bring in a player on the cheap to replace him whom he has worked with before and rates.

[Selred]

7 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Not the first player we’ve signed with huge optimism, only for them to disappoint.  Tony Dinning anyone?  These things happen, even at the top clubs (Jayden Sancho…).

Don’t think we had huge optimism when we signed him. A good player on loan yes, very tidy, but hardly a world beater.

[42nite]

9 hours ago, Selred said:

Don’t think we had huge optimism when we signed him. A good player on loan yes, very tidy, but hardly a world beater.

I thought Dinning was superb and just what we needed in our team when on loan. 

I was very pleased when he signed and looked forward to seeing more from him.....

The rest is history! 

 

[Numero Uno]

10 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

It's equally the club not getting it wrong when it'd seems financially we are doing well out of it and its the players ambition to be playing and asking for a move that has instigated it. Add the fact LM can bring in a player on the cheap to replace him whom he has worked with before and rates.

Which is pretty much what I said. The club made a decision to buy a player that is down the pecking order after seven months. If Liam wanted him to stay he could have put his foot down. Instead he’s rectified the situation and allowed the player to leave seemingly with us quids in and the same squad size. After making what reasonably looks like a mistake (we don’t spend seven figures on players to be fourth or fifth choice, we don’t have that money), the club has corrected the situation which is a positive and, as I said, better than retaining an expensive bit part player. Assuming Birmingham buy him of course.

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Which is pretty much what I said. The club made a decision to buy a player that is down the pecking order after seven months. If Liam wanted him to stay he could have put his foot down. Instead he’s rectified the situation and allowed the player to leave seemingly with us quids in and the same squad size. After making what reasonably looks like a mistake (we don’t spend seven figures on players to be fourth or fifth choice, we don’t have that money), the club has corrected the situation which is a positive and, as I said, better than retaining an expensive bit part player. Assuming Birmingham buy him of course.

Just to add, we only get that transfer fee if Brum actually exercise their option to buy.  They might come back with a different offer next summer, or even no offer at all.

[Selred]

1 hour ago, 42nite said:

I thought Dinning was superb and just what we needed in our team when on loan. 

I was very pleased when he signed and looked forward to seeing more from him.....

The rest is history! 

 

I’m on about TGH, not sure why anyone is talking about Dinning. Very different.

[italian dave]

On 23/08/2024 at 15:50, Bs4Red said:

I agree with parts of this, however not all of it. 
LM is clearly a coach who believes he can improve players, that’s why we have signed a lot of “unknowns” at the level. 
 

Fally, Armstrong, Bird, Mcguane, Earthy. 
 

All have very little championship experience, he has moved on players with lots of championship experience and I would guess (cannot be arsed to research) he has reduced our overall squad average age. 
 

This huge thing around improving academy talent is always slightly skewed in the fact that these players have to be remotely good enough. 
None of them are at that level yet, hence Stokes loan along with a few others. 
 

Obviously he has been given what he feels he needs but as has been mentioned above, he certainly hasn’t been given a major overhaul. Similar number of purchases as each year. In terms of every club, I don’t believe anyone could compete in this league without reinforcements each season. 
 

He has clearly worked within a wage budget getting rid of a few high earners and bringing in lots of potential. Wouldn’t quite call it “moneyball” method but it’s clear we are signing players who have potential with the right coaching and an obvious opportunity of “sell on value” 

 

Agree of course he has been given players that “suit” his system but seems naive to think that wasn’t always going to be the case. 

Max Bird has over 100 Championship appearances under his belt. And Sinclair Armstrong has over 50 (albeit not full 90 minutes).

We’ve still got Max, Cam Pring, Kal Naismith, Zak Vyner, Rob Dickie, Joe Williams, Jason Knight, Nakhi Wells, Harry Cornick all with over 100 Championship appearances, whilst George Tanner and Mark Sykes aren’t far off.

I don’t think we lack experience at this level.

100% agree with your comments on the academy though. It’s not a conveyor belt that produces an Alex Scott or Antoine Semenyo every year. More like a bus: nothing for a few years then three come along at once! I’m far from convinced there’s anyone waiting in the wings seriously good enough to challenge at the moment, especially in a season where expectations are greater than they’ve been for a few years. 

[downendcity]

On 24/08/2024 at 10:26, DT The Optimist said:

Agree Pop.. but a hilarious one was the Sheff Wed Owls one when the chairman owner stated if fans did not stop moaning & groaning he was going to withdraw funding… meltdown  … wish Uncle Steve  would do that.    

According to some on here he did  while Pearson was here, i.e. building the nest egg!

[redsquirrel]

On 23/08/2024 at 18:18, Merrick's Marvels said:

I just think he's an idiot!

To be a conniving liar, you've got to be halfway clever.

He's not. He's a dumb Geordie (there are plenty) whose Left foot and spacial awareness on a football pitch far exceed his IQ off it. 

Windy way of saying - good player, rubbish TD.

brilliant 

[Mr Popodopolous]

23 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

Didn't Weimann renew on 50% of his previous salary? 

That was what I thought yep.

[Lew-T]

Playing RB for Birmingham tonight. He’s also looked pretty shaky for the 10 minutes or so I’ve switched on.