Away from our own shambles for a moment.. Declan Rice red card

[Roe]

I think the award for most ridiculous second yellow of the season has been won already. Pathetic that this leads to a red card

[Bristol Oil Services]

Oh well ...

[Back of the Dolman]

Couldn’t happen to a snidier side so no sympathy.

at the end of the day Rice kicks the ball away and that’s a yellow.

Bearing in mind I’ve seen Arteta push injured players back onto the pitch just to get the game stopped then I’ll have no sympathy 

[harvey54]

The most overrated English player in the Premier league. No creativity. 'Good engine'. Grey man 

[Fordy62]

For what it’s worth I think Rice is an excellent player. 

The card was ridiculous. Earlier in the game the ref didn’t book a Brighton player for lacing it half the pitch length. Decisions like that cost titles. The ref wanted it to be all about him. 

[Denbury Red]

This is no different to the Blackburn guy - Gueye who got sent off today for waving his hand at the ref indicating he wanted the opponent booked - players have been told not to wave their hands if they want another player booked, and not to kick the ball away which stops an opponent taking a quick free kick.

It's about time players learned and also that all referees followed through on the commitments to following the guidelines.

Let's hope this is followed through in the Championship.

[Back of the Dolman]

1 minute ago, Fordy62 said:

For what it’s worth I think Rice is an excellent player. 

The card was ridiculous. Earlier in the game the ref didn’t book a Brighton player for lacing it half the pitch length. Decisions like that cost titles. The ref wanted it to be all about him. 

Surely if the referee wanted it to be all about him then he’d of booked the Brighton player earlier as well.

i don’t remember that particular incident but in general I thought the ref had a reasonable game.

[REDOXO]

12 minutes ago, Roe said:

I think the award for most ridiculous second yellow of the season has been won already. Pathetic that this leads to a red card

 

7 minutes ago, Back of the Dolman said:

Couldn’t happen to a snidier side so no sympathy.

at the end of the day Rice kicks the ball away and that’s a yellow.

Bearing in mind I’ve seen Arteta push injured players back onto the pitch just to get the game stopped then I’ll have no sympathy 

Brushing over the snidey, (but I do tend to agree) Rice put himself in that position! 
 

Sometimes you get away with tapping the ball away at 1/0 up sometimes you don’t and as the referees have had orders you put yourself in that position if you do it! Having already had a yellow it was a stupid thing to do. 
 

The bloke cost his team two points not the referee! 
 

As for the someone kicked the ball away earlier in the game. So what! It happens how sad never mind!

 

[Slack Bladder]

28 minutes ago, Denbury Red said:

This is no different to the Blackburn guy - Gueye who got sent off today for waving his hand at the ref indicating he wanted the opponent booked - players have been told not to wave their hands if they want another player booked, and not to kick the ball away which stops an opponent taking a quick free kick.

It's about time players learned and also that all referees followed through on the commitments to following the guidelines.

Let's hope this is followed through in the Championship.

Agreed, but i would also expect some consistency on this, as mentioned, this ref wasn't even consisent in the same game, as didn't book a Brighton player for kicking the ball away after running it out of play.

if you do it for one, then you do it for all and then we know where we are

[W-S-M Seagull]

That hilarious dive deserves a second yellow. 

[grifty]

3 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

That hilarious dive deserves a second yellow. 

Bingo, if he hadn’t rolled about crying the the ref wouldn’t have had to take any action.

100% a yellow doesn’t matter if it’s his first or second 

[BS3_RED]

52 minutes ago, Denbury Red said:

This is no different to the Blackburn guy - Gueye who got sent off today for waving his hand at the ref indicating he wanted the opponent booked - players have been told not to wave their hands if they want another player booked, and not to kick the ball away which stops an opponent taking a quick free kick.

It's about time players learned and also that all referees followed through on the commitments to following the guidelines.

Let's hope this is followed through in the Championship.

Someone needs to tell Twine about this. I lost count how many times today he was asking the ref for yellow cards. 

[petehinton]

Another thing for Arsenal fans to cry over, when they’re probably in the wrong.

 

Strangest fanbase in England. 

Edited August 31 by petehinton

[TV Tom]

9 hours ago, petehinton said:

Another thing for Arsenal fans to cry over, when they’re probably in the wrong.

 

Strangest fanbase in England. 

How do you come to that conclusion ?

[petehinton]

33 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

How do you come to that conclusion ?

Genuinely think that the premier league is ‘against them’, referees conspire to make them not win games, the amount of ‘fan tv’ people they have, and to boot Arteta is a ******* odd ball who constantly blames officials (including yesterday) yet is constantly breaking rules by basically being on the pitch for the whole game

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

My wife is an Arsenal fan, sadly we discussed that in fine detail.  IMO awful decision should have been a red card for Veltman his post match comments were less than convincing.  But yet again some random nuance of the league handbook means for the slightest touch of the ball Rice gets a second yellow.

Can't believe the MOTD comments were yes red for Rice.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

11 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

That hilarious dive deserves a second yellow. 

He didn't get a yellow for diving, he got it for kicking the ball away and blocking the free kick.

And that video is slowed Veltman belted him.

[petehinton]

….

[AppyDAZE]

1 hour ago, TV Tom said:

How do you come to that conclusion ?

Spurs fan?

[AppyDAZE]

To send a player off for that is absolutely ridiculous.

One of the worst yet.

Edited September 1 by AppyDAZE

[cidercity1987]

You see the incident and any fair minded person would say its weird that Rice was sent off.

Correct decision as per the rules of the game strangely.

Veltman kicked the ball into Rice and then deliberately booted him. Probably a red for him but at least a yellow not given.

Joan Pedro kicking the ball away was far far worse, he almost smashed it out of the stadium and yet no yellow? 

 

 

[The Coach]

It’s a yellow card all day long. Can’t see how anyone can argue that. Obstructs the free kick and rolls the ball out of play. 

He hasn’t been sent on via red. Obtained a second yellow.

Pedro should have got a yellow also for kicking the ball away.

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

Genuinely think that the premier league is ‘against them’, referees conspire to make them not win games, the amount of ‘fan tv’ people they have, and to boot Arteta is a ******* odd ball who constantly blames officials (including yesterday) yet is constantly breaking rules by basically being on the pitch for the whole game

So basically the same as every other team and their supporters ? 

[stortfordred]

13 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

For what it’s worth I think Rice is an excellent player. 

 

How is it that he became arrogant and entitled when he moved to Arsenal?

[Back of the Dolman]

1 minute ago, stortfordred said:

How is it that he became arrogant and entitled when he moved to Arsenal?

Well people do say Arteta is an excellent coach 

[JAWS]

12 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

That hilarious dive deserves a second yellow. 

 totally agree. Embarrassing. Would like to see more cards for clear play acting. Maybe wait to brandish the card after they get up & freely stroll around 

[steviestevieneville]

12 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

That hilarious dive deserves a second yellow. 

I agree . Get up ffs , it’s pathetic 

[Hamdon Mart]

3 hours ago, petehinton said:

Genuinely think that the premier league is ‘against them’, referees conspire to make them not win games, the amount of ‘fan tv’ people they have, and to boot Arteta is a ******* odd ball who constantly blames officials (including yesterday) yet is constantly breaking rules by basically being on the pitch for the whole game

1000% correct on all counts.

I long for the day a winger tears down the line and accidentally wipes Arteta out when he's too close to the touchline. 

[Cowshed]

15 hours ago, Roe said:

I think the award for most ridiculous second yellow of the season has been won already. Pathetic that this leads to a red card

To be fair to Declan Rice he has a lot to think about 1. He cannot be within that distance of a free kick 2. He cannot delay the restart. 3. He cannot kick the ball away. Having three things to avoid overloads his pre frontal cortex and he does all three. 

[Loco Rojo]

Rice knew what he was doing. Moves to be in the way, looks down and clearly taps the ball. 2nd yellow is fair play for me.

But Brighton player should have been booled as well. No intention of taking the FK and was clearly using it as an excuse to kick Rice.

Edited September 1 by Loco Rojo

[Roe]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

1. He cannot be within that distance of a free kick

What is he supposed to do? Vanish?

[Back of the Dolman]

3 minutes ago, Roe said:

What is he supposed to do? Vanish?

Rice knew exactly what he was doing and it backfired on him.

[Cowshed]

31 minutes ago, Roe said:

What is he supposed to do? Vanish?

Move away from the ball retreating to a distance of ten metres, don’t delay the free kick, and do not kick the ball away.  Not doing any of the three are offences with a sanction of a yellow card. The third is a mandatory yellow card. Declan Rice achieved the full house. 

[ballwinningcentrehalf]

Genuinely been baffled by some of the fallout to this decision.

The fault is 100% with Rice (and you could tell from the immediate aftermath and his comments since that he knows it). I think both Veltman and Rice were attempting some gamesmanship, but Rice was stupid and kicked the ball away needlessly and deserved a yellow. If he was clever he could potentially just stand his ground and play on the aggression of Veltman's follow through and the whole situation could have been different. 

The fact Rice has nudged the ball away puts enough doubt in whether he's stepped across Veltman - and therefore whether Veltman was just trying to kick Rice or actually trying to play the ball, which saves Veltman from any punishment imo.

And all this false equivalency because someone kicked the ball away around the half way line is nonsense as well. Leads to all these calls for 'consistency', but there is context around every decision, regardless of it two things could potentially be labeled as broadly in the same category of infringement. A guy kicking a ball that's just gone out of play, before the referee has even whistled, early on in a game with no opposition player anywhere near him, is completely different to someone purposefully kicking a ball away as an opponent tries a quick restart in a game they are holding onto a lead in.

Rice is the only person at fault here, not the officials.

[cidercity1987]

9 minutes ago, ballwinningcentrehalf said:

Genuinely been baffled by some of the fallout to this decision.

The fault is 100% with Rice (and you could tell from the immediate aftermath and his comments since that he knows it). I think both Veltman and Rice were attempting some gamesmanship, but Rice was stupid and kicked the ball away needlessly and deserved a yellow. If he was clever he could potentially just stand his ground and play on the aggression of Veltman's follow through and the whole situation could have been different. 

The fact Rice has nudged the ball away puts enough doubt in whether he's stepped across Veltman - and therefore whether Veltman was just trying to kick Rice or actually trying to play the ball, which saves Veltman from any punishment imo.

And all this false equivalency because someone kicked the ball away around the half way line is nonsense as well. Leads to all these calls for 'consistency', but there is context around every decision, regardless of it two things could potentially be labeled as broadly in the same category of infringement. A guy kicking a ball that's just gone out of play, before the referee has even whistled, early on in a game with no opposition player anywhere near him, is completely different to someone purposefully kicking a ball away as an opponent tries a quick restart in a game they are holding onto a lead in.

Rice is the only person at fault here, not the officials.

Are you saying that kicking the ball away at 0-0 is less of an offense than kicking the ball away at 1-0? That is absolutely mad 

[ballwinningcentrehalf]

2 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Are you saying that kicking the ball away at 0-0 is less of an offense than kicking the ball away at 1-0? That is absolutely mad 

Not explicitly as a deciding factor - but referees are humans and I think naturally all sorts of decisions are treated more harshly later on in games when one team is chasing to try and get back into a match. 

[Back of the Dolman]

2 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Are you saying that kicking the ball away at 0-0 is less of an offense than kicking the ball away at 1-0? That is absolutely mad 

Regardless of whether Pedro should have been booked earlier in the game, it doesn’t absolve Rice of any blame.

He got a deserved second yellow in circumstances of his own making.

[maxjak]

20 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

For what it’s worth I think Rice is an excellent player. 

The card was ridiculous. Earlier in the game the ref didn’t book a Brighton player for lacing it half the pitch length. Decisions like that cost titles. The ref wanted it to be all about him. 

I'm with Lineker on this one................Football has gone banana's if that was a red card.  And Veltman is a well dodgy git, who was very lucky to stay on the pitch?  The whole episode was badly handled by a referee, who should have used common sense?   Now Rice misses a crucial game because of a nothing incident.     How could Veltman have taken the free kick anyhow?..........because the ball was moving?    Gross stupidity all round IMO.  

[Back of the Dolman]

14 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I'm with Lineker on this one................Football has gone banana's if that was a red card.  And Veltman is a well dodgy git, who was very lucky to stay on the pitch?  The whole episode was badly handled by a referee, who should have used common sense?   Now Rice misses a crucial game because of a nothing incident.     How could Veltman have taken the free kick anyhow?..........because the ball was moving?    Gross stupidity all round IMO.  

There’s a few issues here, firstly Lineker and most of the MOTD pundits get paid very well but often talk tosh and show their lack of knowledge of the laws of the game when they speak.

Ultimately he wasn’t given a red card he was given a second yellow which resulted in the red, there’s a difference.

secondly, maybe the referee could use common sense and perhaps that’s what he did earlier in the game when he didn’t book Pedro, but there has been criticism of that because it’s not the law in the game.

So even common sense won’t please everybody because they’ll say he should have adhered to the laws of the game.

Yes Rice will miss a game through suspension but that’s his fault and imagine if he scores the winning goal in that game having not been sent off then his opponents could claim he shouldn’t even be playing.

So who are the victims there ? Arsenal or the team he’s scored the winning goal against.

As for Veltman not being able to take the free kick, he certainly can’t take it when Rice is failing to retreat and then looks directly at the ball and kicks it away ? I think what Veltman has done is put the ref in the position to make a decision as he’s made it plainly clear to the ref what Rice is doing.

Thats not really any different to strikers going down in the box like they’ve been shot exaggerating the contact to win a penalty.

Their was gamesmanship but Rice put himself in the position to fall foul of it and that’s that.

Edited September 1 by Back of the Dolman

[maxjak]

3 minutes ago, Back of the Dolman said:

There’s a few issues here, firstly Lineker and most of the MOTD pundits get paid very well but often talk tosh and show their lack of knowledge of the laws of the game when they speak.

Ultimately he wasn’t given a red card he was given a second yellow which resulted in the red, there’s a difference.

secondly, maybe the referee could use common sense and perhaps that’s what he did earlier in the game when he didn’t book Pedro, but there has been criticism of that because it’s not the law in the game.

So even common sense won’t please everybody because they’ll say he should have adhered to the laws of the game.

Yes Rice will miss a game through suspension but that’s his fault and imagine if he scores the winning goal in that game having not been sent off then his opponents could claim he shouldn’t even be playing.

So who are the victims there ? Arsenal or the team he’s scored the winning goal against.

As for Veltman not being able to take the free kick, he certainly can’t take it when Rice is failing to retreat and then looks directly at the ball and kicks it away ? I think what Veltman has done is put the ref in the position to make a decision as he’s made it plainly clear to the ref what Rice is doing.

Thats not really any different to strikers going down in the box like they’ve been shot exaggerating the contact to win a penalty.

Their was gamesmanship but Rice put himself in the position to fall foul of it and that’s that.

No disrespect intended, but sorry i will never be able agree with pedants like yourself?   So pleased that you are   able to put Lineker in his place,  I really think it's great that you are also able to talk tosh, despite not being paid thousands like the MOTD  Ex pro's                 

[Back of the Dolman]

2 minutes ago, maxjak said:

No disrespect intended, but sorry i will never be able agree with pedants like yourself?   So pleased that you are   able to put Lineker in his place,  I really think it's great that you are also able to talk tosh, despite not being paid thousands like the MOTD  Ex pro's                 

A pedant is a person concerned with minor details.

The laws of the game aren’t minor details, they are the laws of the game.

How people choose to interpret them  is up to them but if they have been followed and enforced correctly which they have then there isn’t much basis for complaint and Rice can have no complaint.

You gave your opinion and I responded by giving mine.

I didn’t realise having a differing opinion means your a pedant.

[grifty]

35 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I'm with Lineker on this one................Football has gone banana's if that was a red card.  And Veltman is a well dodgy git, who was very lucky to stay on the pitch?  The whole episode was badly handled by a referee, who should have used common sense?   Now Rice misses a crucial game because of a nothing incident.     How could Veltman have taken the free kick anyhow?..........because the ball was moving?    Gross stupidity all round IMO.  

It wasn’t a red card. He kicked the ball away which is a yellow card. It happened to be his second yellow card which results in a red card.

[Cowshed]

31 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I'm with Lineker on this one................Football has gone banana's if that was a red card.  And Veltman is a well dodgy git, who was very lucky to stay on the pitch?  The whole episode was badly handled by a referee, who should have used common sense?   Now Rice misses a crucial game because of a nothing incident.     How could Veltman have taken the free kick anyhow?..........because the ball was moving?    Gross stupidity all round IMO.  

It was a yellow card offence. The sanction of a yellow card is mandatory for this offence within the laws of the game. Veltman could not take the free kick, ball moving or otherwise because Rice kicked it away = Yellow card. 

Rice chose to not use any sense, as he must know as a professional what the sanction was for the offence he committed.

[maxjak]

6 minutes ago, Back of the Dolman said:

A pedant is a person concerned with minor details.

The laws of the game aren’t minor details, they are the laws of the game.

How people choose to interpret them  is up to them but if they have been followed and enforced correctly which they have then there isn’t much basis for complaint and Rice can have no complaint.

You gave your opinion and I responded by giving mine.

I didn’t realise having a differing opinion means your a pedant.

I am happy to stay with pedant...i think?

[Back of the Dolman]

Just now, maxjak said:

I am happy to stay with pedant...i think?

No worries I’d rather be a pedant and see the laws of the game enforced properly than let behaviour such as Rices be ignored.

The behaviour of players on the pitch nowadays is awful so I’m happy for them to be appropriately pulled up on it by the ref

[maxjak]

8 minutes ago, Back of the Dolman said:

No worries I’d rather be a pedant and see the laws of the game enforced properly than let behaviour such as Rices be ignored.

The behaviour of players on the pitch nowadays is awful so I’m happy for them to be appropriately pulled up on it by the ref

So a player pushing a moving ball away with his foot in a moment of high pressure ............is far worse than another player assaulting said player deliberately with a high kick that could cause serious injury?   I have to agree that the behaviour of some players IS awful.   I also believe that maybe certain appropriate actions seem to have a peculiar sense of priorities?     

[Back of the Dolman]

Just now, maxjak said:

So a player pushing a moving ball away with his foot in a moment of high pressure ............is far worse than another player assaulting said player deliberately with a high kick that could cause serious injury?   I have to agree that the behaviour of some players IS awful.   I also believe that maybe certain appropriate actions seem to have a peculiar sense of priorities?     

High pressure ? He’s a professional footballer and that wasn’t a high pressure moment.

He caused more pressure for his teammates with his stupid actions.

Is Rice pushing the ball away in the manner he did a yellow card by the laws of the game as they are today ?

Assaulting with a high kick ? There was no force in it, if there had been then Rice wouldn’t have fallen to the floor in pathetic slow motion ! Did he stay down ? Did he require treatment ? No, he was simulating which is another stain on the game.

But even if the referee had taken action against Veltman then fine but Rice was still liable for his second yellow and the sending off.

Rice is not a victim in this who has been treated unfairly.

[maxjak]

14 minutes ago, Back of the Dolman said:

High pressure ? He’s a professional footballer and that wasn’t a high pressure moment.

He caused more pressure for his teammates with his stupid actions.

Is Rice pushing the ball away in the manner he did a yellow card by the laws of the game as they are today ?

Assaulting with a high kick ? There was no force in it, if there had been then Rice wouldn’t have fallen to the floor in pathetic slow motion ! Did he stay down ? Did he require treatment ? No, he was simulating which is another stain on the game.

But even if the referee had taken action against Veltman then fine but Rice was still liable for his second yellow and the sending off.

Rice is not a victim in this who has been treated unfairly.

I don't think you have ever played football at any reasonable level?   Apologies if i an wrong, but your approach seems to suggest that?.  Anyway  I give up.............you and i will never agree, I believe you are a dyed in the wool pedant, who follows rules as if they are the gospel?  And you think i am a misguided idealist who doesn';t  understand that rules rule?  So best of luck, and So long.

[Back of the Dolman]

1 minute ago, maxjak said:

I don't think you have ever played football at any reasonable level?   Apologies if i a wrong, but your approach seems to suggest that?.  Anyway  I give up.............you and i will never agree, I believe you are a dyed in the wool pedant, who follows rules as if they are the gospel?  And you think i am a misguided idealist who doesn';t  understand that rules rule?  So best of luck, and So long.

I played at a decent level thanks but I played during the time of not rolling round on the pitch when you haven’t been touched or spending most of the game chasing the referee moaning.

I’m far from being a pedant as you’ve described me but you seem to be completely absolving Declan Rice of any blame or responsibility for what happened to him yesterday.

The point I’m trying to make is that Rice put himself in that position and gave the referee no real option of giving him a yellow for what he did.

Whether something should have happened to Veltman I’m not so sure on that but surely that disproves your point of me being a pedant who blindly follows rules as if that’s how I was I’d clearly be demanding action was taken against him which it appears you think should have happened so maybe you’re a pedant on that one .

But I’d be amazed if that same incident happened against City and a player who’d already been booked did that to prevent City taking a free kick that you’d be so sympathetic.

I may be wrong but I bet you’d be more inclined to want the referee to take action like yesterday 

[Fordy62]

13 hours ago, Back of the Dolman said:

 

Assaulting with a high kick ? There was no force in it...

I respect your argument in this whole debate but the above is plainly not true. He’s put his foot through him as hard as he could. He should have seen red for it. 

[Fuber]

On 31/08/2024 at 21:04, Back of the Dolman said:

Surely if the referee wanted it to be all about him then he’d of booked the Brighton player earlier as well.

i don’t remember that particular incident but in general I thought the ref had a reasonable game.

From the refs viewpoint surely that's a consistency point?

If he booked the Brighton player who wasn't carded at that point, Rice is still gone for the equivalent.

I genuinely don't see it as controversial unless you take it in the context of the refs performance as a whole rather than the individual incident.

[And Its Smith]

The laws say if you delay the restart of play it’s a yellow card and yet there are people saying it isn’t.   It’s a fact that it is!  Just because refs don’t always do it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be a yellow.  The refs errors are NOT booking someone for it not when they do. It’s so clear cut. 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

33 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

The laws say if you delay the restart of play it’s a yellow card and yet there are people saying it isn’t.   It’s a fact that it is!  Just because refs don’t always do it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be a yellow.  The refs errors are NOT booking someone for it not when they do. It’s so clear cut. 

I think where it's harsh is, the balls not stationary at any point, and Veltman essentially rolls it into Rice, who's walking slowly away from him.  Where the free kick was supposed to be taken was behind Veltman.  I think the ref has had a nightmare as they've shown lenience where there was a Brighton player belting the ball out of play, and then been very harsh when it was questionable if Rice was even blocking a free kick being the ball at no point was stationary.

I don't understand how or who Veltman was trying to kick the ball at, given that A it was in motion, and B his foot was so high he's just booted Rice in the thigh.

[BobBobBobbin]

It's clearly a yellow. Not for kicking the ball away, but for delaying the restart. The one with the Brighton player is slightly less obvious and there's an element of doubt, he's trying to keep it in and kicks it the direction he's running in just after it leaves the pitch. If you book that do you book someone cross the ball after it has gone out for a Goal Kick? 

But standing in front a free kick should always be a clear booking, whether the player tries to take it or not. 

[MarcusX]

On 31/08/2024 at 21:01, Fordy62 said:

For what it’s worth I think Rice is an excellent player. 

The card was ridiculous. Earlier in the game the ref didn’t book a Brighton player for lacing it half the pitch length. Decisions like that cost titles. The ref wanted it to be all about him. 

If a ref makes a mistake early on, and realises on reflection he should have showed a card, should he continue to ref the rest of the game based on the mistake - or revert to doing things properly?

Not saying that's what happened but just a thought

On 01/09/2024 at 09:31, AppyDAZE said:

To send a player off for that is absolutely ridiculous.

One of the worst yet.

He didn't, it was a yellow. You can't not brandish a "soft" yellow just because it's a second and would see the player sent

16 hours ago, maxjak said:

I'm with Lineker on this one................Football has gone banana's if that was a red card.  And Veltman is a well dodgy git, who was very lucky to stay on the pitch?  The whole episode was badly handled by a referee, who should have used common sense?   Now Rice misses a crucial game because of a nothing incident.     How could Veltman have taken the free kick anyhow?..........because the ball was moving?    Gross stupidity all round IMO.  

Again, it wasn't a red, it was a yellow.

Initally i was very much in the definite yellow camp. Rice knows what he's doing, and he's poked the ball away to stop Veltman playing the ball.

However, Veltman also knows what he's doing and he's attempting to kick the ball at or towards Rice to get him booked.

The fact the ball was moving, and not where it should have been taken, the ref should have applied some common sense and said look, I know what you're both doing - go back and take it properly and we'll have no more of it.

[Markthehorn]

I guess refs cannot win really .

People mlght say he should use common sense but then they also are told to apply the laws correctly.

Think Micah Richards is going over OTT here though but yes a lack a consistency can be issue.

https://tbrfootball.com/micah-richards-completely-disagrees-with-what-alan-shearer-has-said-about-declan-rices-red-card-for-arsenal/

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, Markthehorn said:

I guess refs cannot win really .

People mlght say he should use common sense but then they also are told to apply the laws correctly.

Think Micah Richards is going over OTT here though but yes a lack a consistency can be issue.

https://tbrfootball.com/micah-richards-completely-disagrees-with-what-alan-shearer-has-said-about-declan-rices-red-card-for-arsenal/

If they applied the rules correctly, that would be a good start.

[Severn Beach Pigeon]

2 hours ago, BobBobBobbin said:

It's clearly a yellow. Not for kicking the ball away, but for delaying the restart. The one with the Brighton player is slightly less obvious and there's an element of doubt, he's trying to keep it in and kicks it the direction he's running in just after it leaves the pitch. If you book that do you book someone cross the ball after it has gone out for a Goal Kick? 

But standing in front a free kick should always be a clear booking, whether the player tries to take it or not. 

Delaying the restart doesn't make sense though.

 

1. He was walking away from where the freekicks was being given.

2. The ball was moving and would have been so regardless of the tap from Rice, so Veltman's taking of it would have had to be retaken for a moving ball.

And of course the ball only being by Rice because it had been kicked into him.

Edited September 2 by Severn Beach Pigeon

[Rob k]

35 minutes ago, Severn Beach Pigeon said:

Delaying the restart doesn't make sense though.

 

1. He was walking away from where the freekicks was being given.

2. The ball was moving and would have been so regardless of the tap from Rice, so Veltman's taking of it would have had to be retaken for a moving ball.

And of course the ball only being by Rice because it had been kicked into him.

Regarding delaying the restart…….as i see at nearly every throw in, an opposing player picks up the ball and drops it on the floor so they can get back in position, the team with the throw then have to come and pick it up and take the throw!! Surley that’s delaying a restart?  

[And Its Smith]

18 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Regarding delaying the restart…….as i see at nearly every throw in, an opposing player picks up the ball and drops it on the floor so they can get back in position, the team with the throw then have to come and pick it up and take the throw!! Surley that’s delaying a restart?  

Yes it is. And if the refs started booking people for doing it, it wouldn’t last long.  Why do players play act and do all the annoying things they do? Because referees allow them too. If I was the head of referees I would tell them to apply the laws correctly and then point out post game which laws were applied. If anyone said too many people are being sent off then I’d just tell them to change their behaviours.  It’s so simple 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

20 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Regarding delaying the restart…….as i see at nearly every throw in, an opposing player picks up the ball and drops it on the floor so they can get back in position, the team with the throw then have to come and pick it up and take the throw!! Surley that’s delaying a restart?  

It's another weird rule that's messing the game up IMO. Keown is hardly impartial but he makes a valid point, it's such an odd rule.

Quote

But former Arsenal defender Martin Keown felt it was the wrong decision.

"I know that Declan knocks the ball away, but why is Veltman knocking the ball into Rice's path?" he said on TNT Sports.

"Where is he [Rice] supposed to go? It is almost like a free punch, 'I'll do somebody at the same time'.

"I know the principle of this new rule, but the referee has a responsibility to keep both sets of 11 players on the pitch – I don't feel it is a sending-off offence."

 

[Markthehorn]

2 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

It's another weird rule that's messing the game up IMO. Keown is hardly impartial but he makes a valid point, it's such an odd rule.

 

But it is a booking offence I guess . 

Just unfortunate that was Rice’s second .

I saw some say he could have been given a straight red for the first tackle!

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

36 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Yes it is. And if the refs started booking people for doing it, it wouldn’t last long.  Why do players play act and do all the annoying things they do? Because referees allow them too. If I was the head of referees I would tell them to apply the laws correctly and then point out post game which laws were applied. If anyone said too many people are being sent off then I’d just tell them to change their behaviours.  It’s so simple 

The problem is, as per Keowns' comments, I'll add my own to that in that the earlier Brighton offence was also technically a yellow but went unpunished. If you are going to punish something, punish it consistently. You can argue the Brighton player was trying to keep it on, yet he's hoofed it with no control whatsoever.  Then he's given Rice a yellow for a very technical interpretation of the situation in that it's hit his foot and gone off.  I can see this causing a lot of debate as the season goes on.

 

[Mendip Broadwalk]

5 hours ago, Severn Beach Pigeon said:

Delaying the restart doesn't make sense though.

 

1. He was walking away from where the freekicks was being given.

2. The ball was moving and would have been so regardless of the tap from Rice, so Veltman's taking of it would have had to be retaken for a moving ball.

And of course the ball only being by Rice because it had been kicked into him.

Rice has kicked the ball away delaying the restart and at any sort of level thats a yellow card. It was last season but since then the PGMOL informed EPL players this is and will be a booking this season. Rice also could had a booking for stopping a promising attack because Brighton could have countered if Rice didn't stop them.

Edited September 2 by Mendip Broadwalk

[Severn Beach Pigeon]

22 minutes ago, Mendip Broadwalk said:

Rice has kicked the ball away delaying the restart and at any sort of level thats a yellow card. It was last season but since then the PGMOL informed EPL players this is and will be a booking this season. Rice also could had a booking for stopping a promising attack because Brighton could have countered if Rice didn't stop them.

A promising attack from by their own corner flag

And delaying a restart of an already moving ball, that was moving because the Brighton player kicked it into Rice

A restart that would have needed to be retaken if Veltman had connected with the ball for it being a moving ball.

A restart that being retaken would have meant there was no promising attack.

[The turtle]

He played the dark arts, he knew exactly what he was doing!! We complain when players waste time and refs do nothing! Then complain when they do!

Is it harsh? absolutely.  But it was a yellow, and rice only has himself to blame for trying to be clever. 

I hope we don't see yellows like that in future, but because the players stop doing things like that (and worse without being punished)

................

- as an aside- at half time , talk on the radio was about possibly subbing Rice because he was on a yellow and it was that kind of game where there was so much gamesmanship a 2nd yellow was easy to see, so maybe Arteta should look at his lack of game management also.

..........

The focus should not be on the ref

The focus should be on rice, and learning.

And in addition, was Arteta right to leave him on in such a game.

Edited September 2 by The turtle

[Mendip Broadwalk]

16 minutes ago, Severn Beach Pigeon said:

A promising attack from by their own corner flag

A restart that being retaken would have meant there was no promising attack.

SPA applies to the both halfs of the pitch and a promising attack would be a counter Rice stopped that being a chance. Yep there was no promising attack because Rice was stopping it.  

[Severn Beach Pigeon]

11 minutes ago, Mendip Broadwalk said:

SPA applies to the both halfs of the pitch and a promising attack would be a counter Rice stopped that being a chance. Yep there was no promising attack because Rice was stopping it.  

There was no promising attack because the ball was already moving.

So had Veltman kicked it, it would have been retaken.

[Mendip Broadwalk]

1 minute ago, Severn Beach Pigeon said:

So had Veltman kicked it

He didnt Rice had already committed the offence. 

[Severn Beach Pigeon]

3 minutes ago, Mendip Broadwalk said:

He didnt Rice had already committed the offence. 

Ball was moving before it hit Rice's foot.

It would have been moving regardless because Veltman had already kicked it in Rice's direction.

So Veltman wouldn't have been able to take the freekick quickly because he had already made it a moving ball.