Max O’Leary - We Need To Talk…

[jbcfc]

seen a few more than usual on social media calling for him to be dropped. are people finally starting to turn? i’ve been saying for years that he’s not reliable enough at this level and have wanted us to sign a new keeper for a long time. he’s a great shot stopper at times but he’s awful at commanding his box, nervy on the ball and his distribution is often poor. a real weak spot in our strong squad to the point that dropping him for our backup could be even worse. not seen him play many times but not heard good things.

if we want to fully commit to manning ball, we must have a keeper who is comfortable with his feet. however, commanding the box is fundamental.

[hinsleburg]

3 minutes ago, jbcfc said:

seen a few more than usual on social media calling for him to be dropped. are people finally starting to turn? i’ve been saying for years that he’s not reliable enough at this level and have wanted us to sign a new keeper for a long time. he’s a great shot stopper at times but he’s awful at commanding his box, nervy on the ball and his distribution is often poor. a real weak spot in our strong squad to the point that dropping him for our backup could be even worse. not seen him play many times but not heard good things.

if we want to fully commit to manning ball, we must have a keeper who is comfortable with his feet. however, commanding the box is fundamental.

I must admit I've never rated him and every time a cross goes into the box I'm worried.

For me, the kicking/distribution side of things is less of an issue for signing a replacement. If we look at Goal Kicks etc most of the time the ball is just rolled to the CB anyway so it only becomes an issue during open play. As long as we don't get a scenario like Marinovic where his first touch is longer than his goal kick, most keepers nowadays are competent enough with the ball at their feet.

Everything just seems rushed and frantic with Max and there's never any indication things are under control and I'm always wary of the effect that has on the rest of the team.

He's an OK keeper, but not at the level we need if we are serious about progressing in my opinion

[Carey 6]

I don't want him dropped, because I don't think the replacement is up to it. 

What I do want, is for us to have a serious competitor for him. Expected us to sign one in the summer but we didn't, so hopefully we will next window. 

[RumneyRed]

He has saved us a fair few points in my opinion over past 18 months. I see him as an important part of the team. 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, hinsleburg said:

I must admit I've never rated him and every time a cross goes into the box I'm worried.

For me, the kicking/distribution side of things is less of an issue for signing a replacement. If we look at Goal Kicks etc most of the time the ball is just rolled to the CB anyway so it only becomes an issue during open play. As long as we don't get a scenario like Marinovic where his first touch is longer than his goal kick, most keepers nowadays are competent enough with the ball at their feet.

Everything just seems rushed and frantic with Max and there's never any indication things are under control and I'm always wary of the effect that has on the rest of the team.

He's an OK keeper, but not at the level we need if we are serious about progressing in my opinion

 

 

 

[_Shawn_x]

He isn’t good enough but not like we have a suitable replacement 

[GrahamC]

1 minute ago, RumneyRed said:

He has saved us a fair few points in my opinion over past 18 months. I see him as an important part of the team. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, but he was ropey yesterday so this all starts up again..

We made a decision to go cheap on his understudy this summer when we probably should have had the conversation with Bajic that he was unlikely to break through here & so was better off moving on.

Max is extremely unlikely to be left out whenever he’s fit, as a result of this.

At the bare minimum we now have to live with that decision until January.

[fly in the air]

I wonder if there is any out of contract keepers we could look at. maybe the goalkeeper coach is not right for him

[RumneyRed]

Agree that a strong alternative keeper would be good for club and Max progression. I see improvement in him each season. His judgement in leaving his box to clear up quick counters by kicking or heading into touch has been very impressive. Feel his distribution needs to improve tho. Also like the fact he is a calm keeper and that must help his team mates.

[RedRock]

Think Max is the least of our issues personally.

Really kept his focus after Swansea’s goal when lesser keepers could have succumbed to the pressure. OK not Prem ready yet and aspects of his game - crossing and distribution - need work to get to Champ Top 6 level, but our defence is all over the place at present and any cutting edge attackers non-existent. They are the priorities to resolve first if we are to progress. 

[ExiledAjax]

He's being asked to work a hell of a lot harder this season than last.

The shots on target he's faced so far this season are, on average, 25% better than the ones he faced last season. It's the midfield and defence that's the issue. He's not as protected, not as screened, and so he's having to do much more work. He's always slightly underperformed his xGA and this season he's being exposed to even better shots by a less effective screen.

Distribution and cross-stopping is about the same as the past two seasons.

He's still a good enough keeper to get us into the top third of the table, but he needs to be properly protected by the outfielders.

[OJ009]

Certainly improved last season to make me think twice about replacing him.

It feels like he has gone backwards this year but it could be the defence being worse.

He would have had a clean sheet yesterday if it wasn't for poor officiating.

[fanjita]

Regarding the Swansea goal yesterday, personally I think he needs to be stronger in those situations, other teams would have noticed this and no doubt he will come up against this situation again.

[A Horse With No Name]

19 minutes ago, RumneyRed said:

He has saved us a fair few points in my opinion over past 18 months. I see him as an important part of the team. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have to offset that against the points he has cost us though. Every keeper makes wordie saves every now and again, but most don't gift the opposition goals regularly.

[Red Cyril 2]

Yeah I do feel Max has his faults but the decision was not taken in the summer to acquire a new no 1 keeper or stiff opposition in a new no.2. He seems still to fit into a work in progress. As with a number in our current squad. I do feel of the club is serious of top 6 and promotion we need a stronger keeper than Max.

[Silvio Dante]

As ever, it’s about the sum of the parts.

I’ve previously raised doubts over Max on decision making and distribution. Last season, he was clearly making strides there and I was happy with him in the side (as evidenced in our goals against) but he has seemingly gone a bit backwards. Your question is whether he’s gone backwards or we’re not doing him favours.

And here it’s reasonable to look at the setup - or more pertinently, one Matthew James.

Last season, James sat the deepest of all the CMs and provided a cover for the team, reducing the shots coming in - but also crucially, had the skill of finding a yard and receiving the ball from Max. That option isn’t there now, as the others just aren’t as good at it. Add in that McNally to date can’t be trusted to distribute, the left side being manned by one person and yesterday the dislocation between defensive and attacking areas, and it starts to become part of a bigger picture.

Essentially to try and score more goals we’re exposing our keeper - and in addition he has less options to distribute to of quality (notably Dickie and James out).

Can he still make excellent shot stops? Yep. Did he make an error yesterday? Yep (but so did Bird in losing Cabango and we should have had a man on Ronald - it’s not the keeper’s job to mark on a corner!). Is his distribution not his strongest suit? Yep. But are we no longer compensating for that. 100%.

Its a bigger picture.

 

[Ronnie Sinclair]

Like it was in the days of Steve Phillips, no real competition for his place so he is in the comfort zone and his form becomes erratic as a result 

[winsaw]

I still rate Max as a very good shot stopper and he's a decent championship keeper, his problem is other teams are realising that he doesn't do very well when he's got players close around him he's panicking when surrounded in the box, think he needs more help from the defence to get him space on the box,

Also I think it's a issue that he had no real competition 

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

As ever, it’s about the sum of the parts.

I’ve previously raised doubts over Max on decision making and distribution. Last season, he was clearly making strides there and I was happy with him in the side (as evidenced in our goals against) but he has seemingly gone a bit backwards. Your question is whether he’s gone backwards or we’re not doing him favours.

And here it’s reasonable to look at the setup - or more pertinently, one Matthew James.

Last season, James sat the deepest of all the CMs and provided a cover for the team, reducing the shots coming in - but also crucially, had the skill of finding a yard and receiving the ball from Max. That option isn’t there now, as the others just aren’t as good at it. Add in that McNally to date can’t be trusted to distribute, the left side being manned by one person and yesterday the dislocation between defensive and attacking areas, and it starts to become part of a bigger picture.

Essentially to try and score more goals we’re exposing our keeper - and in addition he has less options to distribute to of quality (notably Dickie and James out).

Can he still make excellent shot stops? Yep. Did he make an error yesterday? Yep (but so did Bird in losing Cabango and we should have had a man on Ronald - it’s not the keeper’s job to mark on a corner!). Is his distribution not his strongest suit? Yep. But are we no longer compensating for that. 100%.

Its a bigger picture.

 

I like Goalkeepers and defenders to dominate their area. 

We look way too placid imo. 

Too easy to bully. 

Our distribution and passing from the back is also too languid and slow, both physically and mentally. 

That Vyner pass that was intercepted and hit the post is a prime example.

We look to be going through the motions. 

[ExiledAjax]

12 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Essentially to try and score more goals we’re exposing our keeper - and in addition he has less options to distribute to of quality (notably Dickie and James out).

Nice summary.

All I'd add is that according to the numbers, when he does actually launch it, he's improved his accuracy. That may not be much use if the options are poor, and Indeed poorer, less dangerous or effective options may be expected to mean better completion, but he's gone up in that regard.

[Gimme Shelton]

Every time this old chestnut rears it's head I have to repeat what I always say. No,he's not Gordon Banks,but do you watch any other goalkeepers? Watch last Saturdays Match Of The Day please and then tell me how Max is worse than quite a few Prem keepers. Also if you think he doesn't come for catches etc then you've forgotten how awful Bentley was!

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

42 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

I don't want him dropped, because I don't think the replacement is up to it. 

What I do want, is for us to have a serious competitor for him. Expected us to sign one in the summer but we didn't, so hopefully we will next window. 

I was expecting Bajic to leave and another more serious contender to be signed.  Instead we've bloated the midfield.....

For the record I think Max is fine, he's only looked less assured as the defence has started leaking.  I think if he had more confidence in the defence then he wouldn't be second guessing as much, which is the worst place in the world for a keeper.

[Davefevs]

27 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

He's being asked to work a hell of a lot harder this season than last.

The shots on target he's faced so far this season are, on average, 25% better than the ones he faced last season. It's the midfield and defence that's the issue. He's not as protected, not as screened, and so he's having to do much more work. He's always slightly underperformed his xGA and this season he's being exposed to even better shots by a less effective screen.

Distribution and cross-stopping is about the same as the past two seasons.

He's still a good enough keeper to get us into the top third of the table, but he needs to be properly protected by the outfielders.

I think we are seeing a combination of factors and probably all knocking on to each other.  A bit of a vicious circle!

Max losing confidence

Defence (team) losing confidence

Max losing confidence in defence 

Defence losing confidence in Max

Team allowing too many chances / too many good chances

We can lay the blame in one place, but it’s a combo of all imho.

[devoncider]

stat wise (yes I know, lies damned lies and statistics) he ranks bottom of all championship goalkeepers so far this season.

save % 25th of 26

saves per 90 joint 24th of 26

goals prevented - rock bottom (-4.6)

 

source: fotmob app

 

interestingly Fally ranks top of the league in shots per 90 and the top 2 of shots on target per 90 are Fally & Big Sincs

[95red]

Not good  enough  if we wanna push on ,but with manning  in charge we won't anyway. 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

1 hour ago, devoncider said:

interestingly Fally ranks top of the league in shots per 90 and the top 2 of shots on target per 90 are Fally & Big Sincs

This should tell you all you need to know about the stats you're looking at.

There are shots on target and then there are shots on target that don't really bother the keeper.  Ours fall into the later all too often.

[Bs4Red]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I think we are seeing a combination of factors and probably all knocking on to each other.  A bit of a vicious circle!

Max losing confidence

Defence (team) losing confidence

Max losing confidence in defence 

Defence losing confidence in Max

Team allowing too many chances / too many good chances

We can lay the blame in one place, but it’s a combo of all imho.

Agree Dave, 

When all the cogs are working it’s fine but when one stops everything follows. 
 

While I think Max is extremely lucky to be a championship goalkeeper and feel he has massively benefited from the “academy home grown” label. 
 

In front of him we are making it too easy, in possession yesterday, the sheer amount of misplaced passes in really bad areas (Vyner on numerous occasions, McNally and Tanner too) just gives sides the opportunity to pinch it high and be on our back 4. 
 

This is the price you pay when you want to play more expansive football but I do believe with a better GK we would concede less. 
 

The lack of any leader/general in the side is very apparent also and when things are not going great this is magnified 

[BobBobBobbin]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

He's being asked to work a hell of a lot harder this season than last.

The shots on target he's faced so far this season are, on average, 25% better than the ones he faced last season. It's the midfield and defence that's the issue. He's not as protected, not as screened, and so he's having to do much more work. He's always slightly underperformed his xGA and this season he's being exposed to even better shots by a less effective screen.

Distribution and cross-stopping is about the same as the past two seasons.

He's still a good enough keeper to get us into the top third of the table, but he needs to be properly protected by the outfielders.

Stop looking at the causation. 

We must blame individuals for everything. It cannot be deeper than that. 

Pring is shite now, despite being wanted by Premier League teams for a couple of windows. 

Vyner too.

Max is terrible. Can't kick it (Let's ignore the obvious instructions to kick wide under NP and the fact that problem doesn't get commented on anymore....)

 

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I think we are seeing a combination of factors and probably all knocking on to each other.  A bit of a vicious circle!

Max losing confidence

Defence (team) losing confidence

Max losing confidence in defence 

Defence losing confidence in Max

Team allowing too many chances / too many good chances

We can lay the blame in one place, but it’s a combo of all imho.

What a lovely downward spiral for this lovely rainy day

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

As ever, it’s about the sum of the parts.

I’ve previously raised doubts over Max on decision making and distribution. Last season, he was clearly making strides there and I was happy with him in the side (as evidenced in our goals against) but he has seemingly gone a bit backwards. Your question is whether he’s gone backwards or we’re not doing him favours.

And here it’s reasonable to look at the setup - or more pertinently, one Matthew James.

Last season, James sat the deepest of all the CMs and provided a cover for the team, reducing the shots coming in - but also crucially, had the skill of finding a yard and receiving the ball from Max. That option isn’t there now, as the others just aren’t as good at it. Add in that McNally to date can’t be trusted to distribute, the left side being manned by one person and yesterday the dislocation between defensive and attacking areas, and it starts to become part of a bigger picture.

Essentially to try and score more goals we’re exposing our keeper - and in addition he has less options to distribute to of quality (notably Dickie and James out).

Can he still make excellent shot stops? Yep. Did he make an error yesterday? Yep (but so did Bird in losing Cabango and we should have had a man on Ronald - it’s not the keeper’s job to mark on a corner!). Is his distribution not his strongest suit? Yep. But are we no longer compensating for that. 100%.

Its a bigger picture.

 

And before that we had Naismith picking the ball up from Max and starting attacks. Previously Maxs only long kicks were towards Pring on the half way line. His distribution 18 months ago was solid.

[Sir Geoff]

6 minutes ago, BobBobBobbin said:

Stop looking at the causation. 

We must blame individuals for everything. It cannot be deeper than that. 

Pring is shite now, despite being wanted by Premier League teams for a couple of windows. 

Vyner too.

Max is terrible. Can't kick it (Let's ignore the obvious instructions to kick wide under NP and the fact that problem doesn't get commented on anymore....)

 

Sorry I just did and his long kicks under NP had purpose. Widey to Pring to win the header then down to the midfield to win the 2nd ball. If Pring lost the header we normally had a throw in on the half way line.

[BobBobBobbin]

1 minute ago, Sir Geoff said:

Sorry I just did and his long kicks under NP had purpose. Widey to Pring to win the header then down to the midfield to win the 2nd ball. If Pring lost the header we normally had a throw in on the half way line.

Oh I completely agree. I used to bang the drum as to "why" we were doing it all the time. It was a logical approach to distribution from the back when we didn't have a target man to hit or anyone with any great height or aerial ability in midfield (Think Pack and Skuse who never really lost a header).

But people only saw the "negative"- the ball going out of play fairly often. Of course if you think about it, better to over hit a ball out wide for a throw in than to lose a header in the middle of the pitch and have the opposition coming at you through the middle and all the more better than giving it away in your own defensive third...

 

 

[Bristol Oil Services]

14 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

What a lovely downward spiral for this lovely rainy day

Not raining where I am mate. None x - pected until 3 am tomorrow, when there's a 13% chance of it persisting down.

[And Its Smith]

People lying in wait to turn on a good keeper.  What a shock 

[frenchred]

6 hours ago, Gimme Shelton said:

Every time this old chestnut rears it's head I have to repeat what I always say. No,he's not Gordon Banks,but do you watch any other goalkeepers? Watch last Saturdays Match Of The Day please and then tell me how Max is worse than quite a few Prem keepers. Also if you think he doesn't come for catches etc then you've forgotten how awful Bentley was!

I watched the Swansea keeper yesterday, if we had him we win

[Corsham Alf]

As much as I’d love to say Max is good enough I’m afraid I can’t.  He’s a good shot stopper, but he almost looks like a boy in goal & never commands his area. His kicking is very mixed. 

I’m amazed we never moved for a keeper this summer because Bajic simply isn’t good enough. Definitely need to invest in Jan. 

 

[Ivorguy]

How long do we have to wait for a goalie and a consistent striker?

We will not get out of mid table without them

[cityexile]

In the round I like Max and feel he is a perfectly solid championship keeper. I have also said for a long time he is not so good he does not need competent back up. He is the only player really that if he was to lose form for a period, or get injured, there is no obvious back up? Certainly no one pushing him for his place.

[Port Said Red]

7 hours ago, hinsleburg said:

I must admit I've never rated him and every time a cross goes into the box I'm worried.

For me, the kicking/distribution side of things is less of an issue for signing a replacement. If we look at Goal Kicks etc most of the time the ball is just rolled to the CB anyway so it only becomes an issue during open play. As long as we don't get a scenario like Marinovic where his first touch is longer than his goal kick, most keepers nowadays are competent enough with the ball at their feet.

Everything just seems rushed and frantic with Max and there's never any indication things are under control and I'm always wary of the effect that has on the rest of the team.

He's an OK keeper, but not at the level we need if we are serious about progressing in my opinion

Rushed and frantic? I think the only keeper I have seen more laid back than Max is that guy they had at Forest in their promotion season.

[And Its Smith]

51 minutes ago, frenchred said:

I watched the Swansea keeper yesterday, if we had him we win

Judged on no more than a few games I guess. Max is a better keeper. Anyone can have a great game and anyone can have a bad game 

[Negan]

Max is just a very average championship keeper. Won’t get you relegated but won’t get you in the promotion mix. The fact we haven’t upgraded on him since Bentley left has been somewhat of a joke. We’ve been extremely lucky he hasn’t got injured as the fall off in quality between him and Bajic is huge. If we’re being brutally honest he’s a number 2. If he didn’t come through the academy he’d of been shipped off years ago. Don’t rate him at all but he’s the best we’ve got, unless he gets injured then it’s him until the summer and even then we’d only go after someone who can compete with him rather than replace. We’re happy being mediocre. 

[eardun]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think we are seeing a combination of factors and probably all knocking on to each other.  A bit of a vicious circle!

Max losing confidence

Defence (team) losing confidence

Max losing confidence in defence 

Defence losing confidence in Max

Team allowing too many chances / too many good chances

We can lay the blame in one place, but it’s a combo of all imho.

I agree that’s it’s a combination of factors. Max isn’t on top form. And if I look at the back 4, only Tanner is playing at or close to the top of his game. Vyner is really out of sorts. McNally doesn’t look comfortable left side. Pring has been dropped and Roberts isn’t fully up to speed yet (plus his best form was at LCB). And our player of last season is injured. We might be missing him (and Matty James) less if all of our defenders were on top of their game. 

However, yesterday was better than v Blackburn and Derby and if can we get one or two clean sheets this week, let’s hope confidence improves quickly. If it doesn’t though, Vyner might be the next one at risk of being dropped - with McNally moving to his preferred right side and Naismith or Atkinson playing on the left side. Pring looked sharper yesterday and so his dropping might have had the desired effect.

[REDOXO]

8 hours ago, RedRock said:

Think Max is the least of our issues personally.

Really kept his focus after Swansea’s goal when lesser keepers could have succumbed to the pressure. OK not Prem ready yet and aspects of his game - crossing and distribution - need work to get to Champ Top 6 level, but our defence is all over the place at present and any cutting edge attackers non-existent. They are the priorities to resolve first if we are to progress. 

Exactly we have lost, temporarily I hope, the ability to defend as a team. We have shipped far too many goals and are making mistakes all over the field. 
 

The goalkeeper is not the problem, in fact he’s as good as any keeper in this division behind our team. 

Vyner does not look happy unless it’s Dickie standing next to him. How the ball didn’t go in from that block on his punt up field who knows  

 

[Fuber]

8 hours ago, Carey 6 said:

I don't want him dropped, because I don't think the replacement is up to it. 

What I do want, is for us to have a serious competitor for him. Expected us to sign one in the summer but we didn't, so hopefully we will next window. 

Would need to see Bajic given a chance first. Granted I'm not confident - but in the Cup he was fine all things considered. League is different kettle however.

The issue I have with signing a replacement is there's no guarantee we get anyone better. We've ended up with Max after having gone through a number of keepers as is - Bentley, Geifer, Marinovic, O'Donnell, among others - the only one who I rated (for aerial ability for crosses, shot stopping, and distribution; all and above what Manning needs) was Maenpaa. Not a great success rate.

[Barrs Court Red]

43 minutes ago, Negan said:

Max is just a very average championship keeper. Won’t get you relegated but won’t get you in the promotion mix. The fact we haven’t upgraded on him since Bentley left has been somewhat of a joke. We’ve been extremely lucky he hasn’t got injured as the fall off in quality between him and Bajic is huge. If we’re being brutally honest he’s a number 2. If he didn’t come through the academy he’d of been shipped off years ago. Don’t rate him at all but he’s the best we’ve got, unless he gets injured then it’s him until the summer and even then we’d only go after someone who can compete with him rather than replace. We’re happy being mediocre. 

I’d go along with a fair proportion of that, although I wouldn’t say promotion would be impossible with him between the sticks and it’s not a position I’d have used our limited resources to improve on - would be high on my list if circumstances changed. 

[Red Billy]

Max is what Max is at this moment in time. A solid championship goalkeeper who cost us nothing. Could he play in the premier league? Most certainly not at this moment. Is there potential for growth? Absolutely.  He seems able to pull off the incredible one moment and the next all but throw it in the net. Very good reactions but it almost seems the more time he has the worse a player he looks. As mentioned he is also a victim of the team in front of him but he needs to go up a level. 

[jbcfc]

i see the facepalm brigade are out in force on this one. 

for the record, i don’t think max was necessarily at fault for the goal vs swansea and that’s not what the post was about. the referee should’ve spotted the clear infringement on him and our defenders were playing statues.

it’s mainly down to the fact i absolutely sh*t myself whenever he’s on the ball or the ball goes into our box, and his long balls rarely go where we want or need them to. i’d probably sacrifice some of the shot stopping ability for someone who looks and feels more assured - as some have mentioned, this would help the defence in possession and and generally help build-up play. but i understand that ball-playing keepers aren’t easy to come by.

i don’t deny that max has great reflexes and makes some good saves. however, it’s worth noting that he is currently 25th in the league for save percentage at 45.8%. obviously that needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, but worth noting nonetheless.

[Shauntaylor85]

Max, Vyner, Tanner, Pring, all below the levels of last season by a mile. Albeit I think Pring had a rocket because he played very well as sub yesterday with a point to prove it seemed. 

[formerly known as ivan]

Was never a fan of his originally, that was until a couple of seasons ago. Happy to admit he has been more than worth his place in the team over the last couple of seasons. As others have said, he will save us more points than he will cost us over a season. The save he made from Ronald was top drawer.

What I see in front of him at him at the moment is a very fragile defence that seem to be all over the place. 

Even the goal vs Blackburn, hard to be angry with him when he is playing out as instructed.

Edited Monday at 21:29 by formerly known as ivan

[BeggyBlaggers]

Max will cop the blame for any mistake - thats just how it goes for keepers.

 

But its no coincidence that our defence has gone to absolute turd since matty james has gone -  with there being no player to protect the back 4 and give an outlet to recieve the ball.

 

There is no will or resilience from the defence to make sure that ball doesnt go in, like last season - thats down to the impeccable on the grass coaching.

['Pack' It In]

The trouble is at times he reminds me of Steve Phillips.

As other people said he is a good stopper but around the box, he is too lightweight and does not stamp his authority.

We do need a serious contender for 1st Team GK, as I believe he knows he is pretty secure as 1st choice.

Nothing sharpens the brain better than healthy competition.

[FNQ]

11 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Max, Vyner, Tanner, Pring, all below the levels of last season by a mile. Albeit I think Pring had a rocket because he played very well as sub yesterday with a point to prove it seemed. 

A rocket? Who on earth do you think would have given ‘Pringy’ a rocket?

[frenchred]

12 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Max, Vyner, Tanner, Pring, all below the levels of last season by a mile. Albeit I think Pring had a rocket because he played very well as sub yesterday with a point to prove it seemed. 

I'd argue that Tanner had been very good for most games, certainly the pick of our back 5

A rocket from Manning! Must be like being cuddled by a wet lettuce!

[Rob k]

14 minutes ago, FNQ said:

A rocket? Who on earth do you think would have given ‘Pringy’ a rocket?

I have a feeling Manning behind the scenes will be telling certain individuals what’s what. 

[FNQ]

21 hours ago, devoncider said:

stat wise (yes I know, lies damned lies and statistics) he ranks bottom of all championship goalkeepers so far this season.

save % 25th of 26

saves per 90 joint 24th of 26

goals prevented - rock bottom (-4.6)

 

source: fotmob app

 

interestingly Fally ranks top of the league in shots per 90 and the top 2 of shots on target per 90 are Fally & Big Sincs

The same save % stats had Max as the #1 keeper in the championship last season.. The amount of times he kept us and ultimately Liam alive was ridiculous. He, along with Matty James, made our defence look a hell of a lot better than it was. Shame our on the grass focussed coaches couldn’t see it. We can obviously improve everywhere both on and OFF the pitch, but Max is not the priority.

[Midred]

7 minutes ago, Rob k said:

I have a feeling Manning behind the scenes will be telling certain individuals what’s what. 

After having left Pring isolated by Manning's pet Twine who when positioned on the wing went awol in previous matches!

[Numero Uno]

22 hours ago, Carey 6 said:

I don't want him dropped, because I don't think the replacement is up to it. 

What I do want, is for us to have a serious competitor for him. Expected us to sign one in the summer but we didn't, so hopefully we will next window. 

Serious competition is what is needed. It will bring more out of Max for a start. Anyone who thinks Max could do better on crosses will shit their pants when Bajic is playing. He’s a decent keeper BUT one who is guaranteed a place which isn’t a good thing.

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, BeggyBlaggers said:

Max will cop the blame for any mistake - thats just how it goes for keepers.

 

But its no coincidence that our defence has gone to absolute turd since matty james has gone -  with there being no player to protect the back 4 and give an outlet to recieve the ball.

 

There is no will or resilience from the defence to make sure that ball doesnt go in, like last season - thats down to the impeccable on the grass coaching.

Sunday was about the set up from the corner. Either your keeper decides he can deal with that type of pressure and beat people up OR he needs a man there to stop it occurring. You can’t rely on Refs to do their job so do yours!! The Leicester keeper had a “protector” against Arsenal who (very successfully mind) changed their corner routines as a result whereas Ederson didn’t and paid the price the week before. Easy to prevent that situation in future.

Edited Tuesday at 09:59 by Numero Uno

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Rob k said:

I have a feeling Manning behind the scenes will be telling certain individuals what’s what. 

I hear that he once pushed over the flip chart stand in a pique of anger.

[GrahamC]

3 hours ago, 'Pack' It In said:

The trouble is at times he reminds me of Steve Phillips.

As other people said he is a good stopper but around the box, he is too lightweight and does not stamp his authority.

We do need a serious contender for 1st Team GK, as I believe he knows he is pretty secure as 1st choice.

Nothing sharpens the brain better than healthy competition.

Phillips barely played any Championship football in his entire career, so as Max has well over 100 games at this level then not much of a comparison.

Bit like saying Tony Thorpe (2 Championship goals in his career) was better than Andi Weimann.

[Nugget]

Bajic could be decent, we’ve not seen enough of him. Max definitely needs competition, it’s healthy for Max too, first name on the team sheet in some ways. He’s improved though, his kicking was mixed vs Swansea but used to be regularly bad. As someone said Swansea keeper was very good. 

[Antman]

On 30/09/2024 at 12:59, Davefevs said:

I think we are seeing a combination of factors and probably all knocking on to each other.  A bit of a vicious circle!

Max losing confidence

Defence (team) losing confidence

Max losing confidence in defence 

Defence losing confidence in Max

Team allowing too many chances / too many good chances

We can lay the blame in one place, but it’s a combo of all imho.

and the basic fact about GK's is their mistakes are more costly and immediate.

Max IMO has been solid and can produce stunning, matchwinning saves, despite what people are saying he can and does distribute it quickly, but again, if the player receiving isn't capable of reading the situation or not making themselves available, what do you do?

absolutely the above, if the defence is fragile, the keeper cannot be expected to make up for that 100% of the time.

we focus on the clangers, because they cost us, but balance that against the moments where he's saved our bacon.

[Rob k]

32 minutes ago, Antman said:

and the basic fact about GK's is their mistakes are more costly and immediate.

Max IMO has been solid and can produce stunning, matchwinning saves, despite what people are saying he can and does distribute it quickly, but again, if the player receiving isn't capable of reading the situation or not making themselves available, what do you do?

absolutely the above, if the defence is fragile, the keeper cannot be expected to make up for that 100% of the time.

we focus on the clangers, because they cost us, but balance that against the moments where he's saved our bacon.

Maybe I’m being harsh but Has he saved our bacon making saves he’s wouldn’t expect from a championship keeper? I can think of a save v Derby that was outstanding but struggling to think of too many other saves that I’d not expect a championship keeper to make? I think he’s made more mistakes this season already than from what i can remember from last season. 

[Son of Fred]

4 hours ago, Nugget said:

Bajic could be decent, we’ve not seen enough of him

I've seen all I need to see ...

And that is I'm praying Max doesn't get crocked!

[Antman]

47 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Maybe I’m being harsh but Has he saved our bacon making saves he’s wouldn’t expect from a championship keeper? I can think of a save v Derby that was outstanding but struggling to think of too many other saves that I’d not expect a championship keeper to make? I think he’s made more mistakes this season already than from what i can remember from last season. 

i think he has. (i have a day job so not about to make a video to prove this )

and i do think the defence is much MUCH more shaky this season so far.

for all those people calling for his head and asking for a more experienced keeper , i'll just say one thing....

 

David James........

 

[Rob k]

17 minutes ago, Antman said:

i think he has. (i have a day job so not about to make a video to prove this )

and i do think the defence is much MUCH more shaky this season so far.

for all those people calling for his head and asking for a more experienced keeper , i'll just say one thing....

 

David James........

 

Yes the defence has been shakier than last season for definite, but that’s when you need a real confident, box commanding keeper to install a bit of confidence. 

[TommyD68]

People have a very short memory in football, was one of our strongest players last season, arguably second behind Dickie for me. Max is the least of our problems, his kicking was very poor on the weekend but his shot stopping and reflexes are fantastic, he’s saved us lots of points over the last couple of seasons. I’m more concerned about the defence as a whole so far this season rather than shifting all the blame on him. 

[38MC]

1 hour ago, Rob k said:

Maybe I’m being harsh but Has he saved our bacon making saves he’s wouldn’t expect from a championship keeper? I can think of a save v Derby that was outstanding but struggling to think of too many other saves that I’d not expect a championship keeper to make? I think he’s made more mistakes this season already than from what i can remember from last season. 

Form is temporary class is permanent.

If Max has made more mistakes in 7 games than you can remember him making across the whole of the last season I think you're proving the point that you are being harsh. He's imo a very good Goalkeeper and it's not a position I think we need to improve upon to achieve promotion.  

[RedHienz]

Great season from him last season, if you can tell me a keeper we can get that is an improvement then great, however it's more a case of...

' I haven't seen him play but some people on the Internet said bin him so yeah let's replace' 

 

[Rob k]

23 minutes ago, 38MC said:

Form is temporary class is permanent.

If Max has made more mistakes in 7 games than you can remember him making across the whole of the last season I think you're proving the point that you are being harsh. He's imo a very good Goalkeeper and it's not a position I think we need to improve upon to achieve promotion.  

We were better defensively last season, maybe these flaws were not so evident. Either way, it’s not likely he’s gettting dropped anytime soon so for me, let’s hope for the whole defensive unit starts to get better. 

[Harry]

23 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I hear that he once pushed over the flip chart stand in a pique of anger.