What if Conway had stayed...

[The Humble Realist]

So first of all, we did the right thing selling Conway, this post is JUST  a thought experiment. 

What if we had kept Conway and just accepted he would leave for free (or in Jan for a cut price) and hadn't brought in Armstrong and Fally. 

Would we be better off ? Worse off? Or about the same on the pitch ?

I am not talking about off the pitch etc or the squad, just results/points etc 

[marmite]

Selling Conway was the right decision, I agree with you there. But in my opinion Conway was hyped up to appear better than what he was. I'm not convinced we would have been any better off had he stayed.

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 minutes ago, marmite said:

Selling Conway was the right decision, I agree with you there. But in my opinion Conway was hyped up to appear better than what he was. I'm not convinced we would have been any better off had he stayed.

Conway has 6 Goals already,  just one of which a Penalty- he missed one too at Norwich which cost them- albeit Middlesbrough do create a lot of chances.

[marmite]

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Conway has 6 Goals already,  just one of which a Penalty- he missed one too at Norwich which cost them- albeit Middlesbrough do create a lot of chances.

I wish him well but I don't think he would have been so effective here. 

[mozo]

My intuition is that we'd be doing a bit better.

[lenred]

5 minutes ago, marmite said:

I wish him well but I don't think he would have been so effective here. 

He certainly would’ve done better with the chances yesterday than his replacements did. He’s a natural finisher and we no longer have one at the club.    

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, marmite said:

I wish him well but I don't think he would have been so effective here. 

I think and again different setups, players, different contexts etc.but injury and suspension permitting he will hit 15-20 in the League this season.

Whether he would've done that for us Idk but he is developing clearly. 

[Alessandro]

44 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Conway has 6 Goals already,  just one of which a Penalty- he missed one too at Norwich which cost them- albeit Middlesbrough do create a lot of chances.

Slight aside but the comment on why did Conway leave at the fans forum from, IIRC, (definitely) Tinnion and maybe Jon aswell (?) of quote on quote “he had bad advice” was just…well ridiculous.

As Boro sit 5th and he’s on 6 goals in 12 games - I mean, it’s not only jilted bride stuff, it’s seriously undermining their opinion/judgement and I doubt it’s the kind of attitude current players or prospective future youth players would like to hear.

Edited November 24 by Alessandro

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, The Humble Realist said:

So first of all, we did the right thing selling Conway, this post is JUST  a thought experiment. 

What if we had kept Conway and just accepted he would leave for free (or in Jan for a cut price) and hadn't brought in Armstrong and Fally. 

Would we be better off ? Worse off? Or about the same on the pitch ?

I am not talking about off the pitch etc or the squad, just results/points etc 

Just to add, we were always signing one “no9” regardless of whether TC stayed or not.

5 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Slight aside but the comment on why did Conway leave at the fans forum from, IIRC, (definitely) Tinnion and maybe Jon aswell (?) of quote on quote “he had bad advice” was just…well ridiculous.

As Boro sit 5th and he’s on 6 goals in 12 games - I mean, it’s not only jilted bride stuff, it’s seriously undermining their opinion/judgement and I doubt it’s the kind of attitude current players or prospective future youth players would like to hear.

Whatever the exact wording was from Tinnion the other night, it was the subtle mention of age in “best offer for a player his age”, which at the time he was 21, which suggests they offered him an age-based wage, not a ability-based / squad-status-base wage.  I’m not gonna drag up the other contract stuff, but as our most saleable squad asset, it shows we didn’t offer him something in line with his status / worth to us.  Boro did. I thought some of the jilted bride comments the other night and through the summer were pathetic, inc LM in that, not just BT / JL.  Tommy did the right thing and kept his mouth shut.

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Just to add, we were always signing one “no9” regardless of whether TC stayed or not.

Whatever the exact wording was from Tinnion the other night, it was the subtle mention of age in “best offer for a player his age”, which at the time he was 21, which suggests they offered him an age-based wage, not a ability-based / squad-status-base wage.  I’m not gonna drag up the other contract stuff, but as our most saleable squad asset, it shows we didn’t offer him something in line with his status / worth to us.  Boro did. I thought some of the jilted bride comments the other night and through the summer were pathetic, inc LM in that, not just BT / JL.  Tommy did the right thing and kept his mouth shut.

Putting aside how we treated him after the Celtic talks broke down it seems like because he is one of our own and came through the academy, we kind of expected him to sign a lesser contract for us based on those things? And not his actual worth as a first team player. 

The "badly advised" comments are just ridiculous. I hope Boro get promoted this season. Hopefully we included a promotion clause in the deal too. 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Putting aside how we treated him after the Celtic talks broke down it seems like because he is one of our own and came through the academy, we kind of expected him to sign a lesser contract for us based on those things? And not his actual worth as a first team player. 

The "badly advised" comments are just ridiculous. I hope Boro get promoted this season. Hopefully we included a promotion clause in the deal too. 

As a general point, that always annoys me.  Pay them their worth (within reason).  There’s a case for it buying some “goodwill” too.

Vyner had to force their hand too!

Edited November 24 by Davefevs

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Just to add, we were always signing one “no9” regardless of whether TC stayed or not.

Whatever the exact wording was from Tinnion the other night, it was the subtle mention of age in “best offer for a player his age”, which at the time he was 21, which suggests they offered him an age-based wage, not a ability-based / squad-status-base wage.  I’m not gonna drag up the other contract stuff, but as our most saleable squad asset, it shows we didn’t offer him something in line with his status / worth to us.  Boro did. I thought some of the jilted bride comments the other night and through the summer were pathetic, inc LM in that, not just BT / JL.  Tommy did the right thing and kept his mouth shut.

Tom did do the right thing and kept his mouth shut for sure. I admire him for that as he must have been seething listening to the open comments from the club and the digs from covert club representatives! 
 

I suspect he won’t be having a lot to say to some in the hierarchy when he comes here. 
 

 

[Davefevs]

@REDOXO I’m sure he’ll just concentrate on the match.

[REDOXO]

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@REDOXO I’m sure he’ll just concentrate on the match.

I’m sure he will. He’s a professional! 

[38MC]

Conway didn’t fit into a LM team and neither brought out the best in eachother. 

[east sussex red]

Strikers look better and score more goals when their team mates supply them with opportunities.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, east sussex red said:

Strikers look better and score more goals when their team mates supply them with opportunities.

They do, at the same time he has a very good Conversion Rate.

Bit of both, virtuous circle probably.

[Swede]

3 hours ago, lenred said:

He certainly would’ve done better with the chances yesterday than his replacements did. He’s a natural finisher and we no longer have one at the club.    

Wells is a natural finisher.

Sam Bell is also, only he plays wide. at the moment. At some point in the future he will play through the middle whether its at this club or lower down the leagues, who knows.

[sh1t_ref_again]

3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Putting aside how we treated him after the Celtic talks broke down it seems like because he is one of our own and came through the academy, we kind of expected him to sign a lesser contract for us based on those things? And not his actual worth as a first team player. 

The "badly advised" comments are just ridiculous. I hope Boro get promoted this season. Hopefully we included a promotion clause in the deal too. 

So when NP made the comment we have offered him a deal to make him one of our best paid players, you do not accept or believe that?

But prefer to state he was offered a lesser contact based on rumour on here

[pillred]

34 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

They do, at the same time he has a very good Conversion Rate.

Bit of both, virtuous circle probably.

Is that a lot of people sat around in a ring praying?

[Oizys]

Tommy was never going to sign a new contract under Manning. He simply did not suit the style. Why would he stay when he knew we would continue to play a system that doesn't bring out the best in him. 

He has designs in getting to the Prem, but he was heading the wrong way in this system.

[Bar BS3]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Conway has 6 Goals already,  just one of which a Penalty- he missed one too at Norwich which cost them- albeit Middlesbrough do create a lot of chances.

It could be said that, with playing 1 up front - with Wells on 5, Armstrong on 2 & Fally on 2 - would Conways 6 so far for Boro be more productive that what we have had..?

[Severn Beach Pigeon]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Just to add, we were always signing one “no9” regardless of whether TC stayed or not.

Whatever the exact wording was from Tinnion the other night, it was the subtle mention of age in “best offer for a player his age”, which at the time he was 21, which suggests they offered him an age-based wage, not a ability-based / squad-status-base wage.  I’m not gonna drag up the other contract stuff, but as our most saleable squad asset, it shows we didn’t offer him something in line with his status / worth to us.  Boro did. I thought some of the jilted bride comments the other night and through the summer were pathetic, inc LM in that, not just BT / JL.  Tommy did the right thing and kept his mouth shut.

While that is a reading that can be taken from it it's also not necessarily the only one.

 

Just saying "it's the best wage a player has been offered here at that age" doesn't mean it has to be an age based offer. If he was offered the highest wages in the club it would still be the highest for that age.

 

If he was offered something that was top 6 at the club for example, that would be suggestive of an ability based offer, would likely be the highest someone of that age has been offered here, but unlike the above example doesn't have the "he was offered the biggest wages at the club" as the obvious alternative.

[Davefevs]

Wells 5 in 593

Armstrong 2 in 685

Mayulu 2 in 222

Total 9 in 1500

=====

Conway 6 in 666 (beast!) = 13.5 in the same 1500 mins.

=====

Obviously its not really apples v apples for posted for comparison.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Severn Beach Pigeon said:

Just saying "it's the best wage a player has been offered here at that age" doesn't mean it has to be an age based offer. If he was offered the highest wages in the club it would still be the highest for that age.

That is true re not being the only basis, but if he was offered the highest wages in the club, they’d have said that.  Or if he was gonna be one of the highest paid players they’d have said that at too.  When you hear things like “we offered what we thought was a very good contract”, or as per the other night, the age bit, you get a feeling (as a fan) that maybe it wasn’t quite as good as they let us think it was…and that perhaps some fans jumping on him as a money grabbing effer, who isn’t as good as he thinks he is, might have been a bit too easy to base their view on the basis of one half going public.

[Severn Beach Pigeon]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That is true re not being the only basis, but if he was offered the highest wages in the club, they’d have said that.  Or if he was gonna be one of the highest paid players they’d have said that at too.  When you hear things like “we offered what we thought was a very good contract”, or as per the other night, the age bit, you get a feeling (as a fan) that maybe it wasn’t quite as good as they let us think it was…and that perhaps some fans jumping on him as a money grabbing effer, who isn’t as good as he thinks he is, might have been a bit too easy to base their view on the basis of one half going public.

I think the reality is somewhere between the two.

 

I think it's likely that TC was offered a very good wage, but that age may have played a part in him not being offered a bit more perhaps.

[bpexile]

2 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Tom did do the right thing and kept his mouth shut for sure. I admire him for that as he must have been seething listening to the open comments from the club and the digs from covert club representatives! 
 

I suspect he won’t be having a lot to say to some in the hierarchy when he comes here. 
 

 

Right or wrong in my own mind I've been convinced for a long time that the NP saga () was the turning point for Tommy. I realise he didn't sign under NP either but being so close to NP I think he would have seen what was going on behind the scenes with the Muppets in charge of BCFC.

However, that's only my opinion & it's all water under the bridge now & I wish Tommy well 

Edited November 24 by bpexile

[Mr Popodopolous]

42 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

It could be said that, with playing 1 up front - with Wells on 5, Armstrong on 2 & Fally on 2 - would Conways 6 so far for Boro be more productive that what we have had..?

The Conversion Rate however..hmm we could take an average of the 3 and Wells has come well, real bonus this.

Latte-Lath for the record also has 7.

Burgzorg has 2. Latter more depth or a bit wider, Conway can play behind Latte-Lath, through the middle or off the bench 

[REDOXO]

11 minutes ago, bpexile said:

Right or wrong in my own mind I've been convinced for a long time that the NP saga () was the turning point for Tommy. I realise he didn't sign under NP either but being so close to NP I think he would have seen what was going on behind the scenes with the Muppets in charge of BCFC.

However, that's only my opinion & it's all water under the bridge now & I wish Tommy well 

I don’t think you are to far off. 

[Superjack]

Haven't read the thread, but Conway went downhill for us as soon as Manning came in. 

Negative, one up front football. 

Not suited to Tommy's game. 

Also, not suited to any of our striker's game. 

I don't particularly rate the new strikers, but it's hard to judge under Manning. 

What I would say is that Nahki is the outlier. 

Enjoy him. He will be gone soon. 

And then, he will be appreciated by all.

[BristolGit]

To answer the original question… he’d be rotating with Wells and another no.9 like he was last season 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Wells 5 in 593

Armstrong 2 in 685

Mayulu 2 in 222

Total 9 in 1500

=====

Conway 6 in 666 (beast!) = 13.5 in the same 1500 mins.

=====

Obviously its not really apples v apples for posted for comparison.

Conway has already scored more league goals for Boro in his 12 appearances (only 7 of them as starts) than Sinclair Armstrong has in his entire professional career (76 appearances, with 30 of them starts).

He wanted to go & wouldn’t sign a new contract, but anyone trying to claim he wouldn’t have scored more goals is just being ridiculous.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Conway is gone now but thinking someone like Riis on a free if we could, might be a useful way to bridge the gap.

His conversion rate is good, he is technically not bad and age 26, 27- prime years.

[SydneyCity]

At the most simple level, yes we would be better off if we’d kept Conway. He’s a better forward that Armstrong and Mayulu. In reality though, probably not. Manning’s style of play, in general, doesn’t match Tommy’s and he wouldn’t be scoring like he did, or like he is now at Boro.

The pettiness of the Tommy comments at the fan’s forum probably encapsulate why he was keen to leave.

[mozo]

2 hours ago, Superjack said:

Haven't read the thread, but Conway went downhill for us as soon as Manning came in. 

Negative, one up front football. 

Not suited to Tommy's game. 

Also, not suited to any of our striker's game. 

I don't particularly rate the new strikers, but it's hard to judge under Manning. 

What I would say is that Nahki is the outlier. 

Enjoy him. He will be gone soon. 

And then, he will be appreciated by all.

He wouldn't sign for Pearson, who also played one up top.

[Grey Fox]

Yes , we would be better off if we kept our better players, such as Tommy.  This weekend, Burns , Szmodic , Semenyo , Reid , all played in the Premier League, Conway in the Championship. So it is not that we can’t attract / create forwards, we just never seem to keep them.

[Mr Popodopolous]

21 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

Yes , we would be better off if we kept our better players, such as Tommy.  This weekend, Burns , Szmodic , Semenyo , Reid , all played in the Premier League, Conway in the Championship. So it is not that we can’t attract / create forwards, we just never seem to keep them.

Szmodics bloomed much later, had to go back to go forward on one level.

Semenyo well I'm not sure we had much choice, FFP was a factor. Also in the last 18 months.

Reid ditto to an extent, last 12 months and coming off the back of a £25m Pre Tax loss the prior season.

Burns likewise bloomed much later- got to the top flight after we loaned and sold him to Fleetwood and got a 1 in 20 double promotion type scenario with Ipswich.

I take your point but there have also been mitigating factors. Perhaps we could've sold one of Bryan and Reid, then taken a chance on the other.

Edited November 24 by Mr Popodopolous

[Lrrr]

4 hours ago, Swede said:

Sam Bell is also, only he plays wide. at the moment. At some point in the future he will play through the middle whether its at this club or lower down the leagues, who knows.

Sam's not as natural a finisher as Tommy, needs an extra chance or two in comparison

[Davefevs]

46 minutes ago, mozo said:

He wouldn't sign for Pearson, 

indeed

who also played one up top.

Which was irrelevant in not signing for Pearson

[Red Skin]

I think we would have been doing better had he stayed, and I think it would have better for him to see out his contract and move on a free.   

If the contract shenanigans are to be believed then his desire to make away away when he did is understandable, but I feel it was an emotional response (possibly encouraged by his agent) rather than a rational one.  

As @Davefevs says, we'd have brought in another striker anyway, and I think Armstrong's pace and power to run behind does offer an alternative (albeit he's raw).  

I feel Sam Bell's absence is perhaps just as much of a miss.  I think he's a better finisher, and he has real intelligence and awarenesses in his play.  If he can regain full fitness and build his physique more I think he'll be great up top with Bird, Twine, Yu, and Mehmeti around him playing him in.  Maybe a stretch for him to lead the line alone, but as an 'inside forward' I can see him scoring a decent amount of goals.   

[Davefevs]

@Red Skin I think most of us amateurs see all of our strikers more suited to playing with a partner in some shape or form, whether that be a more traditional pairing or something different.

LM doesn’t though.

[Superjack]

2 hours ago, mozo said:

He wouldn't sign for Pearson, who also played one up top.

He didn't go downhill under Pearson though.

[One Team]

14 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Putting aside how we treated him after the Celtic talks broke down it seems like because he is one of our own and came through the academy, we kind of expected him to sign a lesser contract for us based on those things? And not his actual worth as a first team player. 

The "badly advised" comments are just ridiculous. I hope Boro get promoted this season. Hopefully we included a promotion clause in the deal too. 

That was an odd comment at the fans forum. 

From Conway’s perspective it was fantastic advice; huge pay rise and a move to a club more likely to get promoted. Why wouldn’t he move?

In any event it wasn’t just the money, they fell out over it and there was no going back. 

[mozo]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yeah the one up top thing is irrelevant in general is my point. 

[Red Skin]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@Red Skin I think most of us amateurs see all of our strikers more suited to playing with a partner in some shape or form, whether that be a more traditional pairing or something different.

LM doesn’t though.

It isn't just LM though is it?  It seems to be the latest fashion with younger coaches.

Unless academies develop strikers to be loan strikers there will be alot of clubs chasing very few young strikers equipped to play that way.  Surely something has to give?

Lots of players in the past started as strikers then drifted back to midfield or defence.  Maybe young pros need to look to drift forward to become strikers as their carrer progresses?

We have sweeper keepers.  Central defenders and full backs drifting into midfield.  Rather than having a striker capable of dropping into midfield, maybe we need a midfielder capable of pushing up to make front too?

If Harry Kane is a 9 and. half. maybe we are looking at the era of an 8 and a half?  Maybe that's what Frank Lampard was?

 

[Davefevs]

40 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

It isn't just LM though is it?  It seems to be the latest fashion with younger coaches.

Unless academies develop strikers to be loan strikers there will be alot of clubs chasing very few young strikers equipped to play that way.  Surely something has to give?

Lots of players in the past started as strikers then drifted back to midfield or defence.  Maybe young pros need to look to drift forward to become strikers as their carrer progresses?

We have sweeper keepers.  Central defenders and full backs drifting into midfield.  Rather than having a striker capable of dropping into midfield, maybe we need a midfielder capable of pushing up to make front too?

If Harry Kane is a 9 and. half. maybe we are looking at the era of an 8 and a half?  Maybe that's what Frank Lampard was?

 

I think it’s more about how you play it than how many.  And Pearson’s preference was to play two, he said that many times, just had to adapt to what he had with a small squad.  In fact he pretty much played 3-up-top with WSM (21/22) because that was what he felt was the best use of resources.

FWIW I was critical of Pearson’s front-3 (Bell - Conway (Wells) - Sykes) in that I didn’t think they played close enough to each other.  But there was still an objective to get behind teams and cut-back to create simpler chances as well as press relatively high, hence why Knight played as a 10 early last season. But pre-sacking he didn’t have Conway due to injury.  He lost Wells just as Conway returned.  So he didn’t have a lot of choice.

The season before until Semenyo got sold, it was noticeable how many goals we created by Pring and Semenyo getting to the bye-line and crossing…Sykes started to cash in at the far post.  However Pearson had started the season with Wells and Conway together…because Antoine was injured.

Manning’s preference is to play one.  He’s less flexible from what we’ve seen over 12 months.  We don’t really get behind teams.  In recent weeks, we have started the press higher (and block better).  I’d suggest Wells and Bird are better at leading it than Armstrong and Twine.  Whether we see Wells and Twine I dunno, but would not surprise me if Twine comes in on Tuesday, so we might see…although equal chance Wells is rotated too.

Referring back to Burnley, the slightly frustrating thing about the last 20 was that when we went wide, we didn’t overload, so we didn’t properly get “round the back”, and crosses easier to defend.  Our set-pieces we’re pretty good though.

[redkev]

According to Tinnion ( ) he had no interest in signing at city at all - I actually believe Tinnion on this one 

seen his mate Scotty hit the big time and thought I want some of that , but didn’t quite get the move he wanted in my eyes but once he set his stall out I think he had to go 

[Davefevs]

35 minutes ago, redkev said:

According to Tinnion ( ) he had no interest in signing at city at all - I actually believe Tinnion on this one 

seen his mate Scotty hit the big time and thought I want some of that , but didn’t quite get the move he wanted in my eyes but once he set his stall out I think he had to go 

Again, not worth dragging up the reneged contract story, but just on not wanting to sign.

…from the stories coming 2nd hand / 3rd hand, Tommy never expected to make the same jump as ASe and ASc in one move, he knew he’d have make an interim step first.  That kinda runs true with Celtic too, they would still be a stepping stone to the PL.  He’s not stupid, he knew he wasn’t at his bestie’s level, but he’s ambitious.  And he saw a route elsewhere than Bristol City.  Personally I think Boro was a good choice.  He’s now started a game for Scotland too.  Got 6 goals in 666 minutes, playing in a mixture of positions.  It’s working out pretty well early doors, isn’t it.

It really doesn’t look like “bad advice” does it?  So what if Danny Cole’s is a bit of a knob (alleged) and the hierarchy don’t like him (alleged).  He works for Tommy Conway, not Bristol City.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Conway's goalscoring record was OK but nothing special - 1 goal every 4 games, and never more than 10 league goals in a season (including pens).

He was offered a very good contract, and in the end by all accounts an exceptional one, and we've been told that at no time was he ever interested in signing it.

Nothing more the club could do, unless you think at 21 he was so outstanding City should have put him on a par with our very top earners?

I don't think he was, and I'm quite happy he's gone. Being satisfied with his replacements is another matter though.

 

 

[GrahamC]

12 hours ago, Lrrr said:

Sam's not as natural a finisher as Tommy, needs an extra chance or two in comparison

Fair, but in comparison with Armstrong that still makes him Thierry Henry..

[mozo]

6 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Fair, but in comparison with Armstrong that still makes him Thierry Henry..

Bloody hell Graham, you really don't like the kid! 

You're gonna be so embarrassed when he scores a hattie tomorrow night 

[GrahamC]

54 minutes ago, mozo said:

Bloody hell Graham, you really don't like the kid! 

You're gonna be so embarrassed when he scores a hattie tomorrow night 

Bookmark it & get back to me whenever you like.

He’s more likely to score three in an entire season than he is in one game.

[Cityboy1954]

On 24/11/2024 at 14:43, The Humble Realist said:

So first of all, we did the right thing selling Conway, this post is JUST  a thought experiment. 

What if we had kept Conway and just accepted he would leave for free (or in Jan for a cut price) and hadn't brought in Armstrong and Fally. 

Would we be better off ? Worse off? Or about the same on the pitch ?

I am not talking about off the pitch etc or the squad, just results/points etc 

Yeh probably you cant get no worse than scoring none but lets hope for better in the future .

[REDOXO]

10 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Conway's goalscoring record was OK but nothing special - 1 goal every 4 games, and never more than 10 league goals in a season (including pens).

He was offered a very good contract, and in the end by all accounts an exceptional one, and we've been told that at no time was he ever interested in signing it.

Nothing more the club could do, unless you think at 21 he was so outstanding City should have put him on a par with our very top earners?

I don't think he was, and I'm quite happy he's gone. Being satisfied with his replacements is another matter though.

 

 

I’m not happy he’s gone but there it is. 
 

Yes no one is happy with the replacements currently that’s for sure. 
 

It is true that up until the departure f Mr Pearson Tommy didn’t sign, but who knows what would have happened had NP not been so unceremoniously relieved of control. 
 

That and some alleged shananigans over contracts involving Celtic was another thing that seemed to hit the public domain. 
 

These days I don’t put much store with what Mr Tinnion or any of his chums say as it always seems so tinged with spin or straight out propaganda! 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

On 24/11/2024 at 15:16, lenred said:

He certainly would’ve done better with the chances yesterday than his replacements did. He’s a natural finisher and we no longer have one at the club.    

 

On 24/11/2024 at 15:18, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think and again different setups, players, different contexts etc.but injury and suspension permitting he will hit 15-20 in the League this season.

Whether he would've done that for us Idk but he is developing clearly. 

 

On 24/11/2024 at 15:15, mozo said:

My intuition is that we'd be doing a bit better.

People have short memories Conway was a good player and is proving to be a good one with Middlesbrough.  

We will miss him this season cracking player.  But I wish him the best the nonsense with pay and with pushing him to the u21s was gash IMO.  If you have a talent pay him well and keep him.

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

I’m not happy he’s gone but there it is. 
 

Yes no one is happy with the replacements currently that’s for sure. 
 

It is true that up until the departure f Mr Pearson Tommy didn’t sign, but who knows what would have happened had NP not been so unceremoniously relieved of control. 
 

That and some alleged shananigans over contracts involving Celtic was another thing that seemed to hit the public domain. 
 

These days I don’t put much store with what Mr Tinnion or any of his chums say as it always seems so tinged with spin or straight out propaganda! 

I'm not unhappy he's gone, bad for squad morale to keep an unhappy player and bad for squad harmony to pay him ridiculous wages at 21.

A player who refused to talk about a new contract, despite in the end being offered an exceptional one, has gone.

I don't believe everything that comes out of the club either, but I also don't believe all the stories, rumours, alleged this & that etc. in Conway's favour that leave him coming out squeaky clean.

He wanted more money, had probably been convinced a PL club would come in for him, and he's ended up at Middlesbro, probably not even in the top 10 clubs he'd have chosen.

That's it afaic, I have no interest in Conway or how he progresses now, but if we'd signed someone capable of replacing his 10 League goals I'd be happier.

[RedM]

14 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Bookmark it & get back to me whenever you like.

He’s more likely to score three in an entire season than he is in one game.

I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with you on that. Very happy to be proved wrong, but on what I've seen so far I'm thinking there had to be better options out there for the same money.

[RedM]

In answer to the original question, I don't know if we would be better or worse off in regards to the table, but I do think we would have scored more goals with Conway.

Nothing to do with how we are set up, but purely down to the fact the fans believed in him (West Ham away for example). He had a song, the fans loved him and he made the game exciting. There was always a chance he would score, at times it was pretty much a certainty. It just doesn't feel like that now.

I accept he wasn't staying no matter what. But we didn't replace him 'like for like' and as I said above there must have been better options out there for our money. I think the club focused too much on Twine thinking with his skills he could get the ball fed through to 'any ol striker' to score.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

13 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I'm not unhappy he's gone, bad for squad morale to keep an unhappy player and bad for squad harmony to pay him ridiculous wages at 21.

A player who refused to talk about a new contract, despite in the end being offered an exceptional one, has gone.

I don't believe everything that comes out of the club either, but I also don't believe all the stories, rumours, alleged this & that etc. in Conway's favour that leave him coming out squeaky clean.

He wanted more money, had probably been convinced a PL club would come in for him, and he's ended up at Middlesbro, probably not even in the top 10 clubs he'd have chosen.

That's it afaic, I have no interest in Conway or how he progresses now, but if we'd signed someone capable of replacing his 10 League goals I'd be happier.

The problem is if you're a footballer and one of your peers in Ayman Benarous a walking example of what can happen at an early stage.  And you know you can get 4x what's been offered to you by the club, by moving and you get kicking into the reserves.  That's the club not valuing it's own players, so we've gone out and signed Armstrong & Mayulu for more which is arguably a gamble that wasn't worth taking.

[Natchfever]

13 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I'm not unhappy he's gone, bad for squad morale to keep an unhappy player and bad for squad harmony to pay him ridiculous wages at 21.

A player who refused to talk about a new contract, despite in the end being offered an exceptional one, has gone.

I don't believe everything that comes out of the club either, but I also don't believe all the stories, rumours, alleged this & that etc. in Conway's favour that leave him coming out squeaky clean.

He wanted more money, had probably been convinced a PL club would come in for him, and he's ended up at Middlesbro, probably not even in the top 10 clubs he'd have chosen.

That's it afaic, I have no interest in Conway or how he progresses now, but if we'd signed someone capable of replacing his 10 League goals I'd be happier.

If Conways asset value was worth more than anyone elses in the squad, what does his age have to do with the wages hes worth?

Hes gone so done and dusted but I have seen nothing to suggest he was anything other than professional, something that cant be said about the club hierarchy.

[Abingdon Red]

On 24/11/2024 at 23:36, Lrrr said:

Sam's not as natural a finisher as Tommy, needs an extra chance or two in comparison

It's a bit hard to tell with Bell as we haven't seen that much of him as a central striker, as he's often played on the wings (similar to Weinmann really). 

When he's fit, it's probably worth giving him an extended go in that position to see what happens.  He can't be any worse than what we've got and maybe the current best option as an eventual replacement for Nahki, which we need to sort out sooner rather than later.

[38MC]

20 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

If Conways asset value was worth more than anyone elses in the squad, what does his age have to do with the wages hes worth?

Hes gone so done and dusted but I have seen nothing to suggest he was anything other than professional, something that cant be said about the club hierarchy.

You are absolutely right, pay what they are worth as the immediate factor, but I do think age is relevant. Money, and serious money, can have a massive destabilizing impact on life and on outlook and attitude; so I do think age is something to consider as well. Many lottery winners will tell you of their regret at winning and how it changed their lives for the worst. 

I think there is a point where you are too young for the wages you may think that you deserve.

If I was his agent, I would have advised him the best thing is to get a long contract (to cover yourself in case of long-term injury); have a release clause; earn a good wage but not so much that you think you've made it; and have it heavily incentivised so the harder you work the more you get paid. Equally I probably would have told him to leave Bristol City at the time with Tinnion leading the ship and Manning not at that time having endeared himself to much of the fan base. 

[REDOXO]

18 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I'm not unhappy he's gone, bad for squad morale to keep an unhappy player and bad for squad harmony to pay him ridiculous wages at 21.

A player who refused to talk about a new contract, despite in the end being offered an exceptional one, has gone.

I don't believe everything that comes out of the club either, but I also don't believe all the stories, rumours, alleged this & that etc. in Conway's favour that leave him coming out squeaky clean.

He wanted more money, had probably been convinced a PL club would come in for him, and he's ended up at Middlesbro, probably not even in the top 10 clubs he'd have chosen.

That's it afaic, I have no interest in Conway or how he progresses now, but if we'd signed someone capable of replacing his 10 League goals I'd be happier.

Your value is the market place. He hasn’t gone to Boro on less unless someone knows something different. 
 

So exceptional to us is the best you can say about his contract offer. However clearly the club thought he was worth it for “his 10 league goals” 

I don’t know what he was convinced of (isn’t Danny Coles his agent, I’m not sure Brian and Danny are on each others Christmas card list, that may not have helped) 
 

Point is the club is rumor control just as much as some outside the club.  I don’t believe anything unless it’s come from a private source I trust and certainly nothing on here. 
 

I agree Hopefully we can develop the players bought to lead our forward line at least to bring in others and create chances for those that can shoot until they learn to chip in with goals themselves regularly  

 

Edited November 26 by REDOXO

[redysteadygo]

17 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Your value is the market place. He hasn’t gone to Boro on less unless someone knows something different. 
 

So exceptional to us is the best you can say about his contract offer. However clearly the club thought he was worth it for “his 10 league goals” 

I don’t know what he was convinced of (isn’t Danny Coles his agent, I’m not sure Brian and Danny are on each others Christmas card list, that may not have helped) 
 

Point is the club is rumor control just as much as some outside the club.  I don’t believe anything unless it’s come from a private source I trust and certainly nothing on here. 
 

I agree Hopefully we can develop the players bought to lead our forward line at least to bring in others and create chances for those that can shoot until they learn to chip in with goals themselves regularly  

 

Not Yu then!

[Natchfever]

3 hours ago, 38MC said:

You are absolutely right, pay what they are worth as the immediate factor, but I do think age is relevant. Money, and serious money, can have a massive destabilizing impact on life and on outlook and attitude; so I do think age is something to consider as well. Many lottery winners will tell you of their regret at winning and how it changed their lives for the worst. 

I think there is a point where you are too young for the wages you may think that you deserve.

If I was his agent, I would have advised him the best thing is to get a long contract (to cover yourself in case of long-term injury); have a release clause; earn a good wage but not so much that you think you've made it; and have it heavily incentivised so the harder you work the more you get paid. Equally I probably would have told him to leave Bristol City at the time with Tinnion leading the ship and Manning not at that time having endeared himself to much of the fan base. 

Agree with much of what you say, although there are some very grounded 21 year olds around and some utter plums in their 30s playing the game

[REDOXO]

6 minutes ago, redysteadygo said:

Not Yu then!

I like Yu. He’s a good player that not only puts it in, but puts defenders on the wrong foot. 
 

Im hopeful he’ll do very well with us. 

[38MC]

1 hour ago, Natchfever said:

Agree with much of what you say, although there are some very grounded 21 year olds around and some utter plums in their 30s playing the game

I do get a very strong feeling that Tommy is one of the grounded ones as well.

I just think pastorally sometimes it’s best to err on caution. 

Edited November 26 by 38MC

[Nogbad the Bad]

20 hours ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

And you know you can get 4x what's been offered to you by the club, by moving 

If he really thought he could quadruple City's best wage offer by moving it must have been a hell of a shock to end up at Middlesbro, a club who certainly wouldn't offer such an increase and who finished just 3 places above City last season.

But if he and his agent were taken aback that a legion of top clubs weren't clamouring to sign a 10 goal striker who finished 27th= in the Championship scoring charts, and bridges had been burnt at AG by an outright refusal to talk about a new contract, then in the end the apparent sideways move becomes attractive, even if it's almost certainly nothing like the destination, or wages, they'd envisaged.

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

If he really thought he could quadruple City's best wage offer by moving it must have been a hell of a shock to end up at Middlesbro, a club who certainly wouldn't offer such an increase and who finished just 3 places above City last season.

But if he and his agent were taken aback that a legion of top clubs weren't clamouring to sign a 10 goal striker who finished 27th= in the Championship scoring charts, and bridges had been burnt at AG by an outright refusal to talk about a new contract, then in the end the apparent sideways move becomes attractive, even if it's almost certainly nothing like the destination, or wages, they'd envisaged.

 

Noggers, you seem to be painting a one-sided view based on a lot of “ifs”.

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Noggers, you seem to be painting a one-sided view based on a lot of “ifs”.

If I appear to you to take a one-sided view it is to counter the many on here who take the opposite, and as I see it, at least equally one-sided view.

I was answering @Lorenzos Only Goal who said Conway knew he could quadruple his wages by moving elsewhere which clearly didn't turn out to be the case.

The number of goals he scored - not that many - and his position in the Championship top scorers - 27th= - is a matter of record.

My sympathy is not with the player who clearly wanted more money than we could reasonably offer, but with my club, who nurtured the player and then were rejected, despite a very good offer, at the first opportunity.

Of course he had every right to not talk about extending his contract but choosing that path indicates to me he had little feeling for the club or the fans so he didn't leave with my best wishes, or hopes for future success.

You could say - many have - he's a young man who is very career orientated and why wouldn't he seek even better wages elsewhere? 

That's fine but as a City fan I don't have to like it, and certainly won't be apportioning blame to the club.

I don't always agree with the actions of the club by any means - in fact the decision makers have fallen massively in my estimation and regularly pissed me off since the day Cotts was booted out, and they went on to rub salt in the wounds with their diabolical treatment of Nige.

Basically I agree with very little they do, but I do support their actions as far as Conway is concerned.