How long do we give Manning….we keep waiting for it to click….

[Shauntaylor85]

3 defeats in 4, must win the next two. No excuses. Cup finals for the management team. 

[Ivorguy]

If we can’t afford the transfer fees other clubs can, then we need improved scouting to find us the right players.  Did BT and Manning simply rely on our scouts re signing our two dud strikers, and not see them play, I use the word loosely, even once?  And who on earth saw them play, read their stats, and decide they could be dangerous strikers in The Championship.   It all seems so very amateur.  Did we stupidly believe what their agents said?

I find the whole episode shambolicd.

 

 

 

[Shauntaylor85]

So……I did ask how long do we give him, and nobody has actually answered them. For me next two games and fail to win them we need to consider. 

[lenred]

Just now, Shauntaylor85 said:

So……I did ask how long do we give him, and nobody has actually answered them. For me next two games and fail to win them we need to consider. 

He’s not going anywhere.   Best get used to it. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Blurred vision because of the previous, it’s quite clear that Manning has decreased the wage budget. 
 

James and Weimann gone, he may have spent £10m but also sold Tommy to counter balance that. 

It’s almost like people expected us not to invest in any players like every other club in the world do. 
 

If he wasn’t under financial constraints I would suggest we would have signed a more proven striker instead of potential long term investments we have. 

 

Has he cut the wage budget?

I rather think the bulk of the cost cutting and indeed restraint in spending and Met Transfer Profit came under NP his team (plus Gould of course).

Bird, Twine Loan- albeit Bird back to Derby we surely didn't cover the wages.

McNally, Twine,  Mayulu and Armstrong.

Plus loans for Earthy and Yu.

TGH loaned out saves on wages but we are also paying McGuane as well as Bird back on Loan from Derby.

[GrahamC]

Anyone know how many Andre Gray scored tonight?

[Rob k]

Just now, Shauntaylor85 said:

So……I did ask how long do we give him, and nobody has actually answered them. For me next two games and fail to win them we need to consider. 

Him getting sacked will not happen so there’s nothing to currently consider

[DownendRed97]

I will get behind Manning for now, but we really need a Plan B. Watford showed tonight, when they had a poor game, a half time tactical change to put on an extra centre mid stifled us enough for them to scab a 1-0 win. When we go behind, all we do is stick on a couple of out of form strikers and hope for the best. There is no plan B unfortunately and we need to find different ways to win games.

[Fpcity]

1 minute ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

So……I did ask how long do we give him, and nobody has actually answered them. For me next two games and fail to win them we need to consider. 

I said beginning of the season a dozen or so games. 

Couple of things thought. Those results under Hogg would we have gotten them under Manning? 

2nd which is a bit controversial is would the board even consider sacking him so soon after the death of his son? Would it give the club a bad view from the outside? 

[Gazred]

2 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

What was the PR story of this appointment

Did you actually believe what they said? I'd suggest anyone that did is just as clueless.

2 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

must win the next two. No excuses. Cup finals for the management team.

They're not though are they. He's going nowhere.

1 minute ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

So……I did ask how long do we give him, and nobody has actually answered them. For me next two games and fail to win them we need to consider. 

If he finishes in a similar position to last season i'd expect him to keep his job. It would take a terrible run at this point for him to go.

Who would you bring in anyway? What direction does the club move next, given they've just finished recruiting for the current manager that acutally got us one of our highest finishes in this division last season?

[Bs4Red]

9 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Agreed in the main. The key aspect there is turning dominance into goals. I didn’t think against Burnley we really deserved anything overall or had any spells of real “dominance” (that last half hour was them in a block saying “break us down”), but today we undoubtedly had a large chunk of the game where we were by far the better side, and didn’t capitalise. The Bachman saves were excellent, particularly the one that could have been an OG.

Totally acknowledge the point that there are two sides, and I think some of the frustration is that the coaching team clearly can come up with a way to match some of the better teams, and even better them. It might be a case of those better teams having more resources to change things when that happens, but what shouldn’t happen is like in the second half today a bit of playing into their hands. We’ve got to problem solve better. And that is from the bench for me.

Totally agree with that mate, I also feel like I’d far rather lose 2-0 having a go than 1-0 and not throwing the sink at it. 
 

I feel like we stick to the principles too much and reset the ball every time to start attacks which slows it down. 
 

When we brought Fally on we just needed to start hitting him and picking up the loose ball around him. Kept getting it wide and didn’t cross it at all. Just frustrating to watch 

8 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

So……I did ask how long do we give him, and nobody has actually answered them. For me next two games and fail to win them we need to consider. 

Everyone is ignoring you, give it a rest you ******* clown. Take a hint. Literally talking to yourself 

[Shauntaylor85]

7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Anyone know how many Andre Gray scored tonight?

I’d sooner have him than Mayulu and Armstrong! 

[steveybadger]

God I wondered when this post by this poster would happen. Oh no I didn’t as it was highly predictable.

God I wondered when this post by this poster would happen. Oh no I didn’t as it was highly predictable.

[GrahamC]

1 minute ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

I’d sooner have him than Mayulu and Armstrong! 

How’s Ethan Horvath getting on?

You were big on him last season, too.

[Shauntaylor85]

5 minutes ago, Gazred said:

Did you actually believe what they said? I'd suggest anyone that did is just as clueless.

They're not though are they. He's going nowhere.

If he finishes in a similar position to last season i'd expect him to keep his job. It would take a terrible run at this point for him to go.

Who would you bring in anyway? What direction does the club move next, given they've just finished recruiting for the current manager that acutally got us one of our highest finishes in this division last season?

Here in lies the issue. Happy with mid table, honestly I watched that fans forum and the lack of pressure on them all was astounding. It’s a comfy club, Nigel was so right when he called it out. He could see the issues and we will never change. 

[Bs4Red]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Has he cut the wage budget?

I rather think the bulk of the cost cutting and indeed restraint in spending and Met Transfer Profit came under NP his team (plus Gould of course).

Bird, Twine Loan- albeit Bird back to Derby we surely didn't cover the wages.

McNally, Twine,  Mayulu and Armstrong.

Plus loans for Earthy and Yu.

TGH loaned out saves on wages but we are also paying McGuane as well as Bird back on Loan from Derby.

I would guess James and Weimann were a fair if not all chunk of these players - twine. 
 

I maybe wrong and this wasn’t a NP v LM debate on wages etc. I just don’t believe it’s been bloated with these signings 

[Gazred]

Just now, Shauntaylor85 said:

Here in lies the issue. Happy with mid table, honestly I watched that fans forum and the lack of pressure on them all was astounding. It’s a comfy club, Nigel was so right when he called it out. He could see the issues and we will never change. 

For me, not happy with midtable but a realist and long time supporter who's seen much worse and i only started going in 86.

Are you suggesting then that its our fault, we don't drive standards enough?

[Shauntaylor85]

Just now, Gazred said:

For me, not happy with midtable but a realist and long time supporter who's seen much worse and i only started going in 86.

Are you suggesting then that its our fault, we don't drive standards enough?

I just think as a club we are very comfortable in general. I asked the question, clearly some agree time is up, some don’t. That’s football, a game of opinions. So I shall end it here, he isn’t going anywhere but my point is…..why no pressure? Because it feels very easy. Hopefully we beat Plymouth and Portsmouth and kick on. Night all. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

I would guess James and Weimann were a fair if not all chunk of these players - twine. 
 

I maybe wrong and this wasn’t a NP v LM debate on wages etc. I just don’t believe it’s been bloated with these signings 

Reckon the 3 Senior Players were a total of £30,000 per week or thereabouts.

King especially was late in his career and became Player Coach, Weimann renewed and James joined as did King in fact when we were in severe retrenchment mode.

The £26m on the Football side in 2022-23 was £26m due to the impact of the 13th month.

Btw I don't think the business has been too bad except perhaps for the strikers but it feels like the wage bill will be higher than a year ago IMO.

Edited November 26 by Mr Popodopolous

[Galley is our king]

55 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Wondered how long the most negative poster would suddenly re-appear after a loss to spout nonsense 

 

We lost on Saturday as well..

[Shauntaylor85]

1 minute ago, Galley is our king said:

We lost on Saturday as well..

I wasn’t negative under Nigel…..be fair. I could see what he was building and the turnaround. His leadership was exemplary. 

Edited November 26 by Shauntaylor85

[Bs4Red]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Reckon the 3 Senior Players were a total of £30,000 per week or thereabouts.

King especially was late in his career and became Player Coach, Weimann renewed and James joined as did King in fact when we were in severe retrenchment mode.

The £26m on the Football side in 2022-23 was £26m due to the impact of the 13th month.

Btw I don't think the business has been bad except perhaps for the strikers but it feels like the wage bill will he higher than a year ago IMO.

I would have guessed somewhere closer to 50K for those 3 together personally. 
I may be well off the mark however. 
 

[REDOXO]

We improved under Hogg. Enough said. 

[Gazred]

1 minute ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

I just think as a club we are very comfortable in general. I asked the question, clearly some agree time is up, some don’t. That’s football, a game of opinions. So I shall end it here, he isn’t going anywhere but my point is…..why no pressure? Because it feels very easy. Hopefully we beat Plymouth and Portsmouth and kick on. Night all. 

There is probably something in that. I still think expectation levels are too high in general.

Likewise, a couple of good wins would help right now.

Goodnight to you.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

I would have guessed somewhere closer to 50K for those 3 together personally. 
I may be well off the mark however. 
 

Remember the context in which they signed or re-signed.

*King and James but especially King aging plus prior work with NP.

*Weimann- renewing on terms as did Baker and we needed to do additions on lesser terms because FFP was about to hit us for 2 years. For 18 months we were walking a tightrope.

My guesstimate would be..

King- £5k per week or so

James- £15k per week or so

Weimann- £10k, perhaps £12k per week or so.

Edited November 26 by Mr Popodopolous

[Sandhurst Red]

Just in the front door from being at Watford tonight.

Took a neutral friend with me who played football to under 21s level for Brentford, and so I trust his judgement

His comments:

* Very impressive midfield
* Tactical set-up was good
* Frontline was poor all night
* Wingbacks (in particular Roberts) didn't do enough
*Watford were poor
* We overplay at times - looking for that killer pass

On another night - that finishes 0-0.

We are crying out for a striker - that is clear to see.

Is Manning out the answer - No. 
Was the recruitment in the summer the answer for this season - No. 

January will be interesting but expect between now and December around 12 more points on the board - and a consolidated 10th position, justifying spend for a final push.

Manning out - Not in the slightest. 

 

[Rossi the Robin]

Tbf the football is very good but it’s against home teams coming at us
When Watford sat back we were pretty ordinary 

We can’t unlock when teams sit back and that’s the same with us at home

I can see progress but still lack at least 2 really good quality players and that’s down to recruitment 

 

[rednotblue]

Didnt take you long to start spouting off again.

[Ska Junkie]

56 minutes ago, PFree said:

The hardest part is scoring goals and that for me is where our recent investment and recruitment has been really poor.

This I totally agree with. Fally and Sincs are clearly not, yet, Championship standard and we desperately need another option/ competition for Nahki. Without that, we are destined to tread water even though I like the football we play, mostly.

The issue is that someone (Tins I would assume) has to hold their hands up and admit we wasted north of £5M on players that aren't ready yet. That isn't going to happen.

January? Gawd knows.

Edited November 26 by Ska Junkie

[Malvern Red]

1 hour ago, ProfitInMyPocket said:

He ain't going nowhere, more likely to get a new contract than the sack.

Play that fancy way all you like, if you haven't got killers in forward areas you ain't going to get nowhere.

 

[Malago]

1 hour ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

So……I did ask how long do we give him, and nobody has actually answered them. For me next two games and fail to win them we need to consider. 

I answered your question. At least the end of next season and perhaps beyond. 

[Superjack]

1 hour ago, DownendRed97 said:

I will get behind Manning for now, but we really need a Plan B. Watford showed tonight, when they had a poor game, a half time tactical change to put on an extra centre mid stifled us enough for them to scab a 1-0 win. When we go behind, all we do is stick on a couple of out of form strikers and hope for the best. There is no plan B unfortunately and we need to find different ways to win games.

Indeed. But we have been saying this for a year now.

[Superjack]

1 hour ago, Gazred said:

Did you actually believe what they said? I'd suggest anyone that did is just as clueless.

They're not though are they. He's going nowhere.

If he finishes in a similar position to last season i'd expect him to keep his job. It would take a terrible run at this point for him to go.

Who would you bring in anyway? What direction does the club move next, given they've just finished recruiting for the current manager that acutally got us one of our highest finishes in this division last season?

Two managers got us that position.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, SydneyCity said:

In this day and age, I don't think managers, and coaches especially, decide which players a club is going to bring in. They can give feedback and opinion to the club but ultimately, it's their job to just coach the players that are made available to them to the best of their ability.

With our structure, it's ultimately down to the football director, as referenced by Tinnion always trotting out how they'd been looking at players for years and trying to get them pre-dating Manning's appointment.

Some may argue Twine as a Manning signing but I'm guessing it's more likely that Twine was available, Tinnion's ego wanted a "big name" signing and Manning was told "We can get Twine, do you want him?" to which Manning would undoubtedly say "Yes". If the technical director is telling you they can get him, and you don't fancy what else you're being offered, then why not?

FWIW I think that is wide of the mark in terms of our Recruitment.  Manning is heavily invested in the process.  And if there is one player that Manning pushed for its Twine…he effing loves him

1 hour ago, Bs4Red said:

I don’t disagree with this to a degree mate, I think we lacked any sort of idea of how to get back into the game tonight, however the one thing lacking from your synopsis is the opposition. 
Watford at home are absolutely formidable and have only conceded 4 goals in 8 games, they’ve won every game they’ve been ahead in at home also. 
 

We need to find a plan B to break these sides down but in the flip side nobody else so far has been able too. 
 

I think the major thing for us at the moment is making our dominance count. Nakhi had a great opportunity and if not for a poor touch should score, Mehmeti got in some fantastic positions and made some awful choices. 
Bachmann has made a couple of sublime saves also. 
 

I really believe things are getting better and it’s clear to see that, just that cutting edge. Which unfortunately is a whole other debate which again I don’t think LM can be slated for, he’s signed what his budget and the club have offered him. 
Still early days for Fally, Armstrong, Yu, McNally but I still believe will come good. 
 

 

Weren’t Norwich unbeaten in a year.  We showed first half his beatable they were.  We failed to execute.

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

We improved under Hogg. Enough said. 

I’m not sure we were very good at Boro under Hogg…but we won on the back of two goals from the press, not a lot more.  I thought we played really well at Stoke (despite the draw) though.  

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

FWIW I think that is wide of the mark in terms of our Recruitment.  Manning is heavily invested in the process.  And if there is one player that Manning pushed for its Twine…he effing loves him

Weren’t Norwich unbeaten in a year.  We showed first half his beatable they were.  We failed to execute.

I’m not sure we were very good at Boro under Hogg…but we won on the back of two goals from the press, not a lot more.  I thought we played really well at Stoke (despite the draw) though.  

Our results improved and we were hearing the pulling together speech’s in certain areas. 
 

Now we are back to failure and a bucket load of excuses. 
 

But I don’t disagree. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 hours ago, Bris Red said:

Agreed. People keep bleating on about us 'spunking £10million in the summer' like £10million is some huge warchest in the championship..

Clubs are spending that on one player at this level, and then giving them £30 k plus a week aswell..

 

It's big for us. 

We are minus 3 points worse off than this stage last season. 

So we were either over achieving last season or we are under achieving this season. 

 

[And Its Smith]

5 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

It's big for us. 

We are minus 3 points worse off than this stage last season. 

So we were either over achieving last season or we are under achieving this season. 

 

Why can’t we be under achieving last season and this season?

[Superjack]

3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Why can’t we be under achieving last season and this season?

Fair point. 

My answer would be that it's hard to under achieve when handicapped by those running the club and the football.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Bris Red said:

Agreed. People keep bleating on about us 'spunking £10million in the summer' like £10million is some huge warchest in the championship..

Clubs are spending that on one player at this level, and then giving them £30 k plus a week aswell..

 

I take your point hut it isn't as common as people may think.

Last 2 Seasons to date, ie Summer 2023, January 2024 and then Summer 2024..

Rodon- Leeds

Winks- Leicester

Charles- Southampton

Piroe- Leeds

Maybe but unclear McGuinness- Luton.

That's it's that's the lot. All Year 1 Parachute Clubs, the first 4 to large ones for the level.

I also appreciate that often the bigger the fee the bigger the wage.

That said we have very much had a negative Net Spend from Summer 2021 to present albeit a positive one under LM.

I reckon being conservative-£10-15m ie £10-15m Transfer Profit since Summer 2021.

Under NP it was perhaps £22-23m Net Profit without checking in full. Having to guess a bit on Twine Loan fee, Bird fee etc but we can extrapolate on  between July 1st and December 31st 2023.

Did we get £20m or £25m for Scott? As I say I'm being a bit conservative and taking closer to £20m.

[Charlie BCFC]

3 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Do we play good stuff? One decent chance I’d say, comfy saves for the keeper, poor finishing. We don’t have players that can pin you in and put you under massive pressure. It’s all well knocking it around sideways and backwards, but goodness me we just have zero final quality v anyone with a bit of class. Sacked Nigel for progression. This is not progression, we played better football under Nige before the injury crisis at start of last season. 

Your obsession with Pearson is really weird, you come out with the same thread after 1/2 losses and then go quiet when we go on decent form

[Superjack]

Just now, Charlie BCFC said:

Your obsession with Pearson is really weird, you come out with the same thread after 1/2 losses and then go quiet when we go on decent form

It's not weird though, is it?

 

[Charlie BCFC]

4 minutes ago, Superjack said:

It's not weird though, is it?

 

It is when it’s the exact same thread after a disappointing result and then when things get better he shuts up. Pearson left over a year ago, we moved on. Time some people accept that

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, SODS_LAW said:

Here we go  

we just out played a much better squad away from home, if you cant see the progress made in the last 12 months then you’re not very clued up on the game.

 

time to stay off here for a few days and let the deluded haters have the sunlight 

Tbh we were good tonight but tonight in isolation isn't the issue, it is perhaps a lack of process as a whole. Throwing away one point at worst vs Sheffield United, not capitalising on dominance at Derby early on but especially Swansea and Stoke Away, you can add tonight in a sense..for all that was good about our play what is the point when you cannot capitalise or finish.

Roberts on at RWB was a weird way to chase the game.

[Superjack]

1 minute ago, Charlie BCFC said:

It is when it’s the exact same thread after a disappointing result and then when things get better he shuts up. Pearson left over a year ago, we moved on. Time some people accept that

Accept it, or forget it?

 

[Wanderingred]

3 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Sorry what is so laughable? We haven’t won two games in a row all season! 11th. 7 points off play offs, not good enough! No better than Nigel. 

Laughable is the fact people still think that a change of management is the answer to our problems. 

[Superjack]

2 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

Laughable is the fact people still think that a change of management is the answer to our problems. 

Exactly. 

It was the cause of them.

[Charlie BCFC]

1 minute ago, Superjack said:

Accept it, or forget it?

 

Either tbh, if you have reservations over Manning still then fine (I don’t have any personally) but Pearson is long gone and doing the same post after a couple of negative results is really boring

[Superjack]

Just now, Charlie BCFC said:

Either tbh, if you have reservations over Manning still then fine (I don’t have any personally) but Pearson is long gone and doing the same post after a couple of negative results is really boring

I do have reservations over Manning. 

But he ain't the problem.

[SydneyCity]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

FWIW I think that is wide of the mark in terms of our Recruitment.

It may well be, as I’m not ITK in any way. In general though, I feel it’s not as clear cut as player A or player B is a particular manager’s signing these days. It’s more our multi-year, cross coach strategy is this, we release players that don’t fit that strategy, here are some players that fit that strategy that we’ve been watching for a while and can get, which of them do you want? The coach obviously has a say and a preference, but the options and decision are top down, not bottom up and ultimately the coach signed on for that approach and coaches what they’re given.

Having just typed all that, if we are working bottom up, it explains why we’ve been so all over the place these past few years

[Superjack]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCity said:

It may well be, as I’m not ITK in any way. In general though, I feel it’s not as clear cut as player A or player B is a particular manager’s signing these days. It’s more our multi-year, cross coach strategy is this, we release players that don’t fit that strategy, here are some players that fit that strategy that we’ve been watching for a while and can get, which of them do you want? The coach obviously has a say and a preference, but the options and decision are top down, not bottom up and ultimately the coach signed on for that approach and coaches what they’re given.

Having just typed all that, if we are working bottom up, it explains why we’ve been so all over the place these past few years

This club will never work 'bottom up' under these owners. 

We may go 'bottom up' though...

[Markthehorn]

Probably had less chances last season but beat us 4-1.

Way it goes sometimes!

 

[temp]

Dear Steve/Jon

We have been shopping in the basement and bought in some dogs wotsits at a cost of 10million, Steve you need to ditch your personal shopper now.(we trusted you on him once before and it was a mistake)

Your present manager has still time left but is making some poor decisions like keeping a proven striker on the bench and selecting a unproven one to play.

Give him till xmas to progress or then show him the door as well.

Thanks

Edited November 27 by temp

[And Its Smith]

26 minutes ago, temp said:

Dear Steve/Jon

We have been shopping in the basement and bought in some dogs wotsits at a cost of 10million, Steve you need to ditch your personal shopper now.(we trusted you on him once before and it was a mistake)

Your present manager has still time left but is making some poor decisions like keeping a proven striker on the bench and selecting a unproven one to play.

Give him till xmas to progress or then show him the door as well.

Thanks

Who is the proven striker on the bench and the unproven starter?

[Dastardly and Muttley]

7 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

So……I did ask how long do we give him, and nobody has actually answered them. For me next two games and fail to win them we need to consider. 

The earliest that he’ll go is this time next season, if we finish lower than 10th and start next season poorly.

[spudski]

He's turning us into a Swansea.

Pretty possession football, that can't defend consistently and can't score when chances are created. 

A transition of playing ' style' but with the same outcomes as previous seasons. 

Game plan ok.

In game management suspect. 

Not pro active...reactive...and often reaction choice wrong.

Add that to some awful recruitment in the striking areas. 

[Ashtongreight]

5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Tbh we were good tonight but tonight in isolation isn't the issue, it is perhaps a lack of process as a whole. Throwing away one point at worst vs Sheffield United, not capitalising on dominance at Derby early on but especially Swansea and Stoke Away, you can add tonight in a sense..for all that was good about our play what is the point when you cannot capitalise or finish.

Roberts on at RWB was a weird way to chase the game.

I don’t get what that was all about either. The only conclusion I could draw was he’d written the result off so was just saving legs for Saturday. Would have been better to put Robert’s in place of Mehmeti and earthy RWB though

Edited Wednesday at 06:54 by Ashtongreight

[Simon bristol]

9 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

It’s almost like some of our fans (noted on the podcasts in particular) treat us like we are a youth team trying hard and unlucky to lose. I get that with my son’s under 8 team….not with a side who we have spent millions and backed the manager like no other and quoting aspirations of PL. No excuses, if we can’t beat Plymouth and Portsmouth who are both awful sides then we may as well call it a day. 

Nigel Pearson is levels above Liam Manning. Worst decision in years! 

I share some of your frustrations, but we clearly havent backed manning the same as we backed LJ. Manning was basically given insufficient funds to sign good forwards so has to make do with what he has got given, and then told the expectation is the prem. theres not alot between us, sheff u, burnley and watford, but they have the quality to get the tight win, we dont.

[Sir Geoff]

8 hours ago, 38MC said:

You’re taking periods of games in isolation - momentary lapses in concentration for example against sheff utd. 

Over the 270 minutes vs Burnley, Sheff Utd and Watford away, all of them will walk away feeling ‘worked bloody hard for those three points’ is a different slant. 

I stand by we can feel hard done by to walk away with nothing. 

Did you have the same thoughts the last time we played Burnley and Sheffield Utd at home and 'worked them bloody hard.' Not forgetting 2 seasons ago when we worked 'bloody hard' against a better Watford team to gain a point and clean sheet with Andy King at centre half or has your agenda changed. Asking for a friend.

[MarcusX]

9 hours ago, ProfitInMyPocket said:

He ain't going nowhere, more likely to get a new contract than the sack.

Manning has been tactically out-thought at half time too many times this season. He's got a couple right but whenever an opposition team makes a change at half time I'm dreading the second half, get done over almost every time and we react too late or our options just aren't good enough.

A progressive style of football playing through the thirds Vs a basic counter one ball style with minimal build up.

Would you rather be in an around the playoffs playing Watfords way or midtable playing nice tippy tappy stuff like we do? 

Play that fancy way all you like, if you haven't got killers in forward areas you ain't going to get nowhere. 

I usually don't complain about referees much but the last couple have been frustrating but that ain't the reason we aren't higher up in the league.

Inconsistent hierarchy, inconsistent management with an inconsistent squad. Same old City, maybe someday the penny will drop. 

 

The irony to your question is the statistics show we’re actually worse when we have more of the ball, and our results actually do come more from the counter style that Watford deployed last night

 

[42nite]

The people that hired Manning are the problem.  

They should go first or it'll just carry on like for like.

 

[oldstandrobin]

9 hours ago, pongo88 said:

City on course to consolidate a dull mid table position

as the popular pundits said, in the championship there are 24 teams, 11 looking for promotion 11 trying to avoid relegation and there is Preston NE and Bristol City. Bang on. At 74 and having watched them since 8 I have more belief in me living to 100 than I have seeing City in the top tier. Once in my lifetime I DID, but I think that is the only one God is allowing me !!!!

[Silvio Dante]

Back to the plot of the thread, it’s actually a tougher decision than it has been in times during LMs reign (Jan-March of last year) because we are, at times, playing some really good stuff.
 

The issue is, as it has been from pretty much the start, game management. And to be clear, nobody should have any issues in saying Liam got out-thought by Cleverly last night in game, and also did by Parker against Burnley. We’d have no issues in saying Dickie got the better of his striker, and the same logic applies where in game one manager has clearly done better.

The OP is getting a bit of stick, and that’s probably due to the individual and the hyperbole. But, there are some truths here:

- Liam wanted Twine above all others and that meant less money elsewhere. It’s a collective decision, and I do think Tinnion should have said “no” as we were well resourced, but I think you have to back the manager for certain players and the recruitment failure up front (with ST as a “non enabler” has to be at the collective door

- Getting rid of Tinnion (although God I’d like to) doesn’t solve the game management issue that has been manifest from the start

- Most seriously, think on this. If you discount the Hogg games of Stoke and Boro, Liam has taken charge of 16 games this season. We’ve won 4, lost 6 and drawn 6. When the OP gets stick for saying Plymouth is must win, through that lens it absolutely is. Our ppg of Liam in charge this season is 15 games/18 points/1.2 ppg/55 in the season. Nobody is going to be happy with that, and based on pure outcomes/ppg then it’s hard to argue there isn’t a case for asking the question.

Start of this season I said I’d look at the first 12. That’s been extended due to the circumstances. I’m genuinely in two minds as when we’re good - we’re very good. But we also have, as I said, a big Achilles heel.

I think we’ll beat Plymouth on Saturday. If we don’t then this place will be in meltdown. But for me, we need to get more consistency in our “good” periods, and manage games far better in the period up until Christmas if we’re to do anything. If those concerns remain, and we are bobbing around 1.2-1.3 ppg after the next seven or so, then yeah, I think it’s a more than fair question without prejudging the outcome

[Shuffle]

Do people lose context to results and do what I have done on numerous occasions and become too emotional. We’ve lost 3 in 4 but against top 5 teams & for all the talk about how poor those teams are we have to give credit to us for being in all those games and in the case of Sheffield U & Watford we should have won.

We are not a top 6 side at the moment but I can see improvement & with more attacking options we will get there.  I’m no happy clapper but let’s have a sense of reality. There will be a time where I might call for Mannings head but it’s not now as we look a decent team again.

[Galley is our king]

9 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

If we can’t afford the transfer fees other clubs can, then we need improved scouting to find us the right players.  Did BT and Manning simply rely on our scouts re signing our two dud strikers, and not see them play, I use the word loosely, even once?  And who on earth saw them play, read their stats, and decide they could be dangerous strikers in The Championship.   It all seems so very amateur.  Did we stupidly believe what their agents said?

I find the whole episode shambolicd.

 

 

 

No, we stupidly believed what Tinnion said.

To quote him at Senior Reds... "we have signed our big No9"

Yea really?

[Boston Red]

I went to the doctor about my BCFC related depression.

He referred me to the following article.

Actually, it really helped.

Put a few things into perspective.

 

BRITISH MEDICAL JOURNAL OF DISEASES, PAGE 853.

 

"SLOW DEATH BY MIDTABLE MEDIOCRITY"

 

disease affecting football fans, particularly those from the West Country; long incubation period; can last decades; at its worst when two parasites take hold of football club; Tinnion parasite can be expelled but always returns; Lansdown parasite known to breed within the host; survivors can function normally day-to-day but report absence of normal sport-related emotions like hope and optimism; disease at its worst in winter months following false summer optimism; no known cure. 

[Jackson Lamb]

Like the ongoing topic that’s gained traction. Supporters are going to have to accept we are nothing more than mid table obscurity under Lansdowns. Nothing of note will change until Lansdown and Tinnion are gone. Removing Manning is only the tip of the iceberg.

If fans are genuinely not happy with this club. Then protest. Don’t buy the season tickets. Don’t buy the merchandise. Arrange formal protests to let the club know you’re not happy.

However, Bristol City fans will never do that. Collectively, we moan and that’s it. I’ve said it all before. Nice cosy club with a soft fanbase.

[TV Tom]

7 hours ago, Superjack said:

It's not weird though, is it?

 

It is very weird to the point of obsession, the bloke left over a year ago, can’t believe people go on and on and on about him

[Capman]

10 hours ago, Jimbo76 said:

A manager is as good as the performances he gets out of his available squad.  On that basis, looking at our recent performances amongst a lot of injuries,  I'm still positive about Manning as our manager.

Our consistent flaw is that we won't invest the money we need to get to the next level.  You say Manning has been backed financially.  Compared to most teams in the top half of the table,  we haven't spent big money. 

Is that true? The lists I have seen have City as the 4th highest on net expenditure. It’s true others have spent big, but they sold to pay for it. We splashed the cash which previous sensible management had accumulated and I think that gives people the absolute right to expect improvement. 
If you have the 4th highest net expenditure and yet stand still surely that’s a sign of failure? 

[TDarwall]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

 

I think we’ll beat Plymouth on Saturday. 

Unless we score early, my money is on 0-0 or 1-1.

Think they'll be uber defensive - want a clean sheet above everything else - exactly the sort of oppo we struggle against.

[Alessandro]

Never had a problem with Manning, just the circumstances of his arrival. But always willing to give him a shot and wish him the best.

I still have my doubts, in game management being one (highlighted well by others in relation to last night) and a suspicion he may 'use' us as an "audition" of his style to bigger clubs, regardless of whether that's in the best interests of BCFC - but that's a (bigger) debate for another day as I realise it sounds a bit conspiracy theory. Read Russell Martin at Southampton and Kompany now at Bayern etc.

For now though - I wouldn't be considering sacking him. 

But that doesn't mean we can't debate the facts: People say they see progress - I kind of understand that, but i'd ask, what is that progress? Better football? What does that mean? Different ideology, yes, better? Well the stats and hard fact league table says we're no better off, one year down the line. "We're 1 or 2 players away from being top 6" - some were saying the same thing around this time last year under NP. So the issues run deeper, as we know.

Any 'progress' is intangible - for me it's down to footballing ideology and it will be debated and we won't all agree. Is it the journey or destination? Everyone is different.

Is Manning's ideology the best option for a club like Bristol City? Well of course the Lansdown's and Tinnion would love the idea of us being successful in this style. But i'd counter you Luton and a certain extent Ipswich in their unlikey promotions. If we compare Manning to Martin (often linked in ideology) - it didn't "work" (in promotion terms - 15th then 10th....) for Swansea but did at (bigger budget) Southampton....You catch my drift.

That would be my debate surrounding Manning - his ideology and style. From a non-tactical, layman's point of view, I feel like he has us, what feels, more competitive in all our games - they feel close, 1 goal here or there. Even against the big boys, never totally out of it - so I see why people feel we're making progress.

My frustration at the summer transfer business (although he has to share some responsibility, especially over Fally and Twine) buy him a certain amount of good will and i'm happy to see how the season pans out unless we see another big drop in form. 

EDIT _ apologies post turned into newspaper article length.

Edited Wednesday at 10:03 by Alessandro