How long do we give Manning….we keep waiting for it to click….

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The big problem we have is sketchy home form over a considerable period of time. The chances of turning up at the Gate and seeing a City win are far too low atm. It is entirely understandable with crap kick off times added in that some will just decide it ain’t worth the effort to watch us lose when we play a quality side or draw with sides like Sheffield Wednesday and Cardiff that come for a draw.

Liam really needs to improve that home form starting Saturday against a team that got pumped in the week. The issue is many of us have an inkling of what might happen instead. Unless you go home and away you don’t pay your money, give up your time and see us win that often.

We had the 7th Best Home Record last year just for completion but was that a blip.

[Mr Popodopolous]

22 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

Not sure why people are putting palm face emojis? your absolutely spot on to be pissed off as once again we slide down the table and in to mid table mediocrity. And on the back of once again selling off our main talent and top scorer and going back around in circles.  However I don't think the blame fully lays at mannings door. We have a very amateur job for the boys mentality behind the scenes at the club  that lack any real structure and important designated skill sets within proper usufull job roles. It's abit like politics in the country.  Recruitment has always been a real bug bare of mine at the club, if we had not completely ballsed up the striker Recruitment not once in the summer but twice we would be finishing our chances and probably be sat in the play offs now. It just comes down to poor running of the club for example... why keep buying projects ? Havent we done enough of that ? Is the club only interested in cashing in ? Whst about bringing in ready made players to compliment the knights and dickies or this world ?? Look at the set up fown there we have  no CEO no proper head of Recruitment a shambolic medical department an owner who's lost all interest and a son who sits on the chair of the board with his crayons doing god knows what just living comfortably off daddy's money. They do not like to be challenged or held accountable for anything like i said its like a politician The club is screaming out for new ownership imo it's gone incredibly stale and it's painful turning up just to know how our season will pan out season after season while your brentfords, burnleys lutons bournmouths etc of the world over take us and frankly make us look stupid.

Burnley have been in receipt of PL or Parachute cash since 2009-10, as well as being excellently run. That assists greatly, they got on the crest of a wave during a Cup run similar to ours and that laid a platform if used wisely. Either PL or Parachute cash since 2009-10 unbroken.

Bournemouth cheated FFP when there were no notable sanctions for doing so. Since then Parachute and PL cash as well as some good decisions have cushioned them, 2014-15 to present and counting.

Brentford, brilliantly run and they have traded upwards as well as a consistent philosophy on and off the pitch. Even then it took a playoff win to get over the line albeit statistically one of the best sides in the League for several years beforehand.

Luton, Playoffs. Have they built a legacy, will they? Perhaps Stadium, perhaps Facilities. Footfall remains to be seen.

I agree with a lot of your post though and the 2 years of Austerity and indeed necessary sales, that sacrifice should he a platform for better. We need a CEO, we need a better Medical Department, perhaps the Training Ground pitches need looking at in respect of injures and so on.

Edited Thursday at 13:26 by Mr Popodopolous

[Red Cyril 2]

I wonder what ever time SL puts on LM to get it right. Has Robins been already approached and a swift filing of the vacant position will occur ?

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

On 27/11/2024 at 00:15, Dastardly and Muttley said:

He’s had a year and brought in McNally, Twine, Yu, Bird, McGuane, Armstrong, Earthy, Mayulu and whoever else I’ve forgotten and we’re no further forward.

 

Seems like this has happened before, I believe.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 26/11/2024 at 22:15, Dastardly and Muttley said:

He’s had a year and brought in McNally, Twine, Yu, Bird, McGuane, Armstrong, Earthy, Mayulu and whoever else I’ve forgotten and we’re no further forward.

 

Some of that recruitment feels good..Some IMO.

Bird- Hit

Yu- Like what I see

McNally- Increasingly improving

McGuane- I was a doubter but again, very solid.

Hard to say

Earthy- Injured early, shunted around due to our injures elsewhere but I think there is a good player there.

The concerns.

Twine- Value for money, absolutely not so far. Does he weaken us tactically as well.

Armsrong and Mayulu- Enough said! Wherher they are duds forever or merely not ready remains to be seen but 4 Goals between them, 1 since Matchday 3..that is huge pressure. Oh they have some nice attributes and age is on their side but...

[Sir Geoff]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Some of that recruitment feels good..Some IMO.

Bird- Hit

Yu- Like what I see

McNally- Increasingly improving

McGuane- I was a doubter but again, very solid.

Hard to say

Earthy- Injured early, shunted around due to our injures elsewhere but I think there is a good player there.

The concerns.

Twine- Value for money, absolutely not so far. Does he weaken us tactically as well.

Armsrong and Mayulu- Enough said! Wherher they are duds forever or merely not ready remains to be seen but 4 Goals between them, 1 since Matchday 3..that is huge pressure. Oh they have some nice attributes and age is on their side but...

Agree with majority of this except to add. We seem to have replaced Sykes with Yu. Is that enough of an upgrade to justify the added expense?

Did we really need McNally? Proper succession planning would see JKL coming in for Naismith next summer.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Agree with majority of this except to add. We seem to have replaced Sykes with Yu. Is that enough of an upgrade to justify the added expense?

Did we really need McNally? Proper succession planning would see JKL coming in for Naismith next summer.

 

Given the injury crisis to centre backs McNally has actually proved quite useful IMO. That couldn't have been foreseen in August though. Does raise a question abour JKL, however we have a major chunk of our defence out of contract in 2026..

Max

Tanner, McCrorie

*Dickie, Vyner, Atkinson

Pring, Roberts

*Dickie too but we have a Year Option in our favour.

Yu can play on either side can't he..Sykes, Yu, Mehmeti, Bell unless I'm missing someone. 2 per position to some extent,

**Sykes is also out of contract this summer albeit we have a Year Options to 2026.

Edited Thursday at 15:56 by Mr Popodopolous

[Solent Robin]

Agree with your earlier post Fevs, that recruitment is a joint responsibility. But some posters blame BT even though he was in post during NP's time. Appreciate he may have lost trust with what he has said in the past but I will judge him on the recruitment which is not shabby. Could we have done better than the two strikers signed, possibly but we are fishing in a small pond. We certainly needed two additional strikers should there be injuries. 

I'm behind LM because I see improvements and injuries have not enabled consistent selections. Play offs need many things to align including reduced injuries, goals from not just the strikers and firstly  back to back wins to gain some momentum. Still plenty of time to put a good run together, so we'll see.

 

 

[Numero Uno]

53 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Agree with majority of this except to add. We seem to have replaced Sykes with Yu. Is that enough of an upgrade to justify the added expense?

Did we really need McNally? Proper succession planning would see JKL coming in for Naismith next summer.

 

100% we needed McNally with the injuries and suspensions we had. Nobody knows if Atkinson is ever going to get near it, Naismith is totally unreliable, fitness wise and Dickie got crocked for nearly three months and is one of a few assets we have who we might get some decent dough for (which means the club will listen to offers whether we like it or not). JKL is doing it in League 2 (but he's missed a month or more injured himself too) and if he's up to the Championship he'll be getting minutes next season whether McNally is here or not.

[Numero Uno]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We had the 7th Best Home Record last year just for completion but was that a blip.

Some fans don't look at stats except to think "I've only physically seen us win twice this year and three games have been crap so I'll give it a miss" when attending a game on a given day is hard work for them.

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Some fans don't look at stats except to think "I've only physically seen us win twice this year and three games have been crap so I'll give it a miss" when attending a game on a given day is hard work for them.

This season yes, hasn't been too bad last season for a few months but this season no win in 5 Home Games, 3, of them we didn't score this season sure..it's stalled again 

[BCFC31]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Burnley have been in receipt of PL or Parachute cash since 2009-10, as well as being excellently run. That assists greatly, they got on the crest of a wave during a Cup run similar to ours and that laid a platform if used wisely. Either PL or Parachute cash since 2009-10 unbroken.

Bournemouth cheated FFP when there were no notable sanctions for doing so. Since then Parachute and PL cash as well as some good decisions have cushioned them, 2014-15 to present and counting.

Brentford, brilliantly run and they have traded upwards as well as a consistent philosophy on and off the pitch. Even then it took a playoff win to get over the line albeit statistically one of the best sides in the League for several years beforehand.

Luton, Playoffs. Have they built a legacy, will they? Perhaps Stadium, perhaps Facilities. Footfall remains to be seen.

I agree with a lot of your post though and the 2 years of Austerity and indeed necessary sales, that sacrifice should he a platform for better. We need a CEO, we need a better Medical Department, perhaps the Training Ground pitches need looking at in respect of injures and so on.

As a club under this ownership we just don't every get it right. They have had over 11 years now to get us to the prem fair enough they have stabilised us as a championship side which is great but to push on we need a change and fast imo

Edited Thursday at 17:10 by BCFC31

[BCFC31]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Some of that recruitment feels good..Some IMO.

Bird- Hit

Yu- Like what I see

McNally- Increasingly improving

McGuane- I was a doubter but again, very solid.

Hard to say

Earthy- Injured early, shunted around due to our injures elsewhere but I think there is a good player there.

The concerns.

Twine- Value for money, absolutely not so far. Does he weaken us tactically as well.

Armsrong and Mayulu- Enough said! Wherher they are duds forever or merely not ready remains to be seen but 4 Goals between them, 1 since Matchday 3..that is huge pressure. Oh they have some nice attributes and age is on their side but...

I think the main issue and why it grates more is we new heading into this season goals were absolutely vital for our chances so we sell our top scorer and blow all the money on two duds and then the same rinse and repeat cycle continues with us bumbling back down the leauge table. 

Edited Thursday at 17:15 by BCFC31

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

As a club under this ownership we just don't every get it right. They have had over 11 years now to get us to the prem fair enough they have stabilised us as a championship side which is great but to push on we need a change and fast imo

It gets harder by the year, I'm not saying this as an excuse but..for me the time to really go big was January 2008. No FFP then, we had real momentum- quite wealthy owner. Carle and Adebola okay but you need 3-4 more, for both quality and quantity, perhaps even a couple of signings with one eye on PL.

Failing that we could've gone bigger and chanced it in 2015-16 under Cotts. I'm on the fence hut we seemed in some ways to be close to our limits. Yet it felt a wasted opportunity too.

Or we should've backed NP and his team a Year ago. That post the Scott sale was a turning point for me.

A better manager for some of the more established players we did sign in the Lee Johnson era wouldn't have hurt either.

Edited Thursday at 17:23 by Mr Popodopolous

[BCFC31]

15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It gets harder by the year, I'm not saying this as an excuse but..for me the time to really go big was January 2008. No FFP then, we had real momentum- quite wealthy owner. Carle and Adebola okay but you need 3-4 more, for both quality and quantity, perhaps even a couple of signings with one eye on PL.

Failing that we could've gone bigger and chanced it in 2015-16 under Cotts. I'm on the fence hut we seemed in some ways to be close to our limits. Yet it felt a wasted opportunity too.

Or we should've backed NP and his team a Year ago. That post the Scott sale was a turning point for me.

A better manager for some of the more established players we did sign in the Lee Johnson era wouldn't have hurt either.

But for me it isn't a case of " going big " that can be avoided with a proper structure in place at the club from the ground up. Things like being culpable and learning from experiences and past mistakes which this club just dont do and putting the fundamentals in place at the club  to create a well oiled machine which gives us the best chance of success through things like good recruitment, good leadership proper professional due diligence, designating very specific roles to the correct proffesionals with the experience to deliver in those roles.  The  management and board level structure at this club is sooooo amateurish in the way it is run and THAT is why we aren't getting success. It's proper lousy down there and I don't see it changing. It's a very broken system/set up.

Edited Thursday at 17:39 by BCFC31

[Superjack]

2 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

But for me it isn't a case of " going big " that can be avoided with a proper structure in place at the club from the ground up. Things like being culpable and learning from experiences and past mistakes and putting the fundamentals in place at the club  to create a well oiled machine which gives us the best chance of success through things like good recruitment, good leadership within the management and board level structure this club is sooooo amateurish in the way it is run and THAT is why we aren't getting success. It's proper lousy down there and I don't see it changing.

Spot on. 

But, putting my tin hat on, it seemed that we had all of that two years ago.

[BCFC31]

2 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Spot on. 

But, putting my tin hat on, it seemed that we had all of that two years ago.

Yes and in typical lansdowns fashion the sheet was totally ripped up and everything had to start over again. Same old cycle year on year it won't change.

[Slack Bladder]

42 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This season yes, hasn't been too bad last season for a few months but this season no win in 5 Home Games, 3, of them we didn't score this season sure..it's stalled again 

Only one goal from open play in those five games too

It's certainly not been exciting to watch down The Gate this season. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

But for me it isn't a case of " going big " that can be avoided with a proper structure in place at the club from the ground up. Things like being culpable and learning from experiences and past mistakes which this club just dont do and putting the fundamentals in place at the club  to create a well oiled machine which gives us the best chance of success through things like good recruitment, good leadership proper professional due diligence, designating very specific roles to the correct proffesionals with the experience to deliver in those roles.  The  management and board level structure at this club is sooooo amateurish in the way it is run and THAT is why we aren't getting success. It's proper lousy down there and I don't see it changing. It's a very broken system/set up.

Can't argue with that really.

Gould

NP and his team

Even Tinnion in his correct role

Yeah that was well run. Rawcliffe and Marshall also in their correct Roles.

Manning I've no great issue with good and bad points, those above him however..hmmm.

[BCFC31]

For what it's worth I actually think manning is a really good coach, you can see we are well Coached in our patterns of play and all the little interchanges going on all over the pitch unfortunately for manning and us this is a club issue and the problems are further up the food chain.

Edited Thursday at 17:44 by BCFC31

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, Slack Bladder said:

Only one goal from open play in those five games too

It's certainly not been exciting to watch down The Gate this season. 

Scored 6 in the first 3 excluding the Wells penalty vs Oxford then run aground as you say..1 from Open Play and 1 Penalty. Statistically not too bad at times and we have had 3 of the top sides in fairness in a row so let's hope something changes Saturday..

We're definitely well set-up, well coached a lot of a time although I have reservations about Back 3 with Wingbacks if McCrorie unavailable.

Edited Thursday at 17:46 by Mr Popodopolous

[BCFC31]

I think manning is genuinely getting the very best he can out of the tools available to him imo can't see many other coaches getting more from fally and armstrong or even memheti for that matter there so raw if they were a steak on my plate blood would be dripping all over the place there just projects it will take any coach time to get the best out of them but when you sell your here and now striker in conway we should of signed at least 1 here and now striker and maybe 1 project we didn't do that.

[Superjack]

2 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

I think manning is genuinely getting the very best he can out of the tools available to him imo can't see many other coaches getting more from fally and armstrong or even memheti for that matter there so raw if they were a steak on my plate blood would be dripping all over the place there just projects it will take any coach time to get the best out of them but when you sell your here and now striker in conway we should of signed at least 1 here and now striker and maybe 1 project we didn't do that.

I agree to an extent. 

And that extent is kick off.

Because as he himself said, it's really difficult for a manager to affect things after that.

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

But for me it isn't a case of " going big " that can be avoided with a proper structure in place at the club from the ground up. Things like being culpable and learning from experiences and past mistakes which this club just dont do and putting the fundamentals in place at the club  to create a well oiled machine which gives us the best chance of success through things like good recruitment, good leadership proper professional due diligence, designating very specific roles to the correct proffesionals with the experience to deliver in those roles.  The  management and board level structure at this club is sooooo amateurish in the way it is run and THAT is why we aren't getting success. It's proper lousy down there and I don't see it changing. It's a very broken system/set up.

Top post!

It’s why I keep saying where is the culture of critical analysis and continuous improvement, because it certainly doesn’t scream out at me by any stretch.

I think Manning knows what he’s doing from coaching to pre-match, but like others I think he has deficiencies during the match itself.  We’ve not had much chance to see his man-management skills, but I think if we get one or two back from injury, then we might see that at play, not just managing subs in terms of those that don’t get on, but those that don’t even get kitted up.

[Natchfever]

28 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

For what it's worth I actually think manning is a really good coach, you can see we are well Coached in our patterns of play and all the little interchanges going on all over the pitch unfortunately for manning and us this is a club issue and the problems are further up the food chain.

Do you think he reacts well to opposition coaches half time tweaks though?

I dont which is why im not so sure he is able to take the theory wholly into practice.

Academic as he is going nowhere, and after what he has suffered, I cant think many wouldnt want him to see out the season at least.

I could be wrong of course on that point.

[Superjack]

21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Top post!

It’s why I keep saying where is the culture of critical analysis and continuous improvement, because it certainly doesn’t scream out at me by any stretch.

I think Manning knows what he’s doing from coaching to pre-match, but like others I think he has deficiencies during the match itself.  We’ve not had much chance to see his man-management skills, but I think if we get one or two back from injury, then we might see that at play, not just managing subs in terms of those that don’t get on, but those that don’t even get kitted up.

I'm not sure, Dave.

He seems to me to be a 'manager' (and this is the rub, he's a head coach) that has his favourites. Of course, all managers do to an extent, but with more experienced managers (hmmm... struggling to think of an example... ), they tend to give players that are out of favour a chance to work their way back in, barring an attitude problem of... ooh, let's say Bakinson.

We seem to be playing good football at the moment, and if Manning keeps that up and gets results, I really don't have too many problems with him. I think this whole forum knows with whom my problems lie. 

The two areas that I struggle to see improving are his in game management, and his propensity to play his favourites, regardless of their form and the form of alternatives.

It all smacks to me of a previous 'head coach' that I am aware that you are not keen on comparisons to.

 

[INCRED]

Without stating the obvious, all that is missing is clinical finishing and players who do that regularly come at a premium.

Because of the way LM sets up, the one up front needs to be able to keep the opposition CBs honest and cause them a physical problem as well as grab his fair share of goals with the two wider players and the 10 being the secondary goal scoring support 

quite clearly we are getting a decent amount of opportunities and shots away but that bit of quality, final pass and composure isn’t happening. Whether that is something that can be coached I’m not sure but we are lacking at that crucial point 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, INCRED said:

Without stating the obvious, all that is missing is clinical finishing and players who do that regularly come at a premium.

Because of the way LM sets up, the one up front needs to be able to keep the opposition CBs honest and cause them a physical problem as well as grab his fair share of goals with the two wider players and the 10 being the secondary goal scoring support 

quite clearly we are getting a decent amount of opportunities and shots away but that bit of quality, final pass and composure isn’t happening. Whether that is something that can be coached I’m not sure but we are lacking at that crucial point 

Just fwiw we are.. 

*8th (joint) with Blackburn for Goals. They have a Game in Hand as do Millwall on 19.

*9th or 10th for Shots. 7 definitively above us then Hull and Sheffield Wednesday jointly above us both in 8th.

*9th for Shots On Target. Joint 9th with Sunderland fwiw, 8 definitively above.

*10th for XG.

*Middlesbrough and Leeds are joint top for Non Penalty XG so I dunno whether we would consider that to be 10th or 11th for us.

Actually varied attacking Stats such as they are remarkably aligned even though we know we have a deficiency at Striker.

[Red Army 79]

I’d give him until the end of the season.

Since 2000/21 each season we have slightly improved our league position.

If he doesn’t get us to finish in the top ten especially after being backed financially it should be bye bye Manning. 
 

 

Edited Thursday at 19:13 by Red Army 79

[Superjack]

3 minutes ago, Red Army 79 said:

I’d give him until the end of the season.

Since 2000/21 each season we have slightly improved our league position.

If he doesn’t get us to finish in the top ten especially after being backed financially it will be bye bye Manning. 
 

 

Not that I don't agree, but it won't be.

Edit: Actually, I'm not sure that I do agree, because as I keep banging the drum on, he isn't the major problem.

As I have also said above, if he keeps getting us playing good football and getting results, then I am largely happy. 

Sure, we might not be able to hit a barn door up front without Nahki on the pitch, but I don't lay the blame at Manning for that. At least not solely.

The problems at this football club do not lie with Manning. They lie with the owning family, and more crucially, one man in between.

Edited Thursday at 19:18 by Superjack

[Red Army 79]

5 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Not that I don't agree, but it won't be.

Yeah I don’t think they will either however if we finish 17/18th or lower not sure how that can be defended. 

[Superjack]

2 minutes ago, Red Army 79 said:

Yeah I don’t think they will either however if we finish 17/18th or lower not sure how that can be defended. 

We would have to finish 22nd or lower. 

And I honestly believe that he would still be here in League One next season. 

But it really doesn't matter. Because it won't be Manning that will have relegated us.

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Natchfever said:

Do you think he reacts well to opposition coaches half time tweaks though?

I dont which is why im not so sure he is able to take the theory wholly into practice.

Academic as he is going nowhere, and after what he has suffered, I cant think many wouldnt want him to see out the season at least.

I could be wrong of course on that point.

On top of him not being able to react to the other teams changes, I also have concerns about the pattern of if we don't score 1st, we more than likely won't win. 

[Ska Junkie]

As said above, the majority of the new signings have been extremely decent, Sincs and, to a point, Fally, haven't been.

We are extremely limited up top but nobody springs to mind that would be available at our shopping level, Riis maybe. We are so reliant on Nahki, that's a real problem which hasn't been alleviated.

I quite like the way we are playing but ruthless we aren't, yet. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

22 minutes ago, Superjack said:

he isn't the major problem.

He may not be the major problem but he is part of the problem. 

The way I look at it is - is he getting the best out of the resources available to him? And the answer is clearly no and could someone else get the best out of the same resources and the answer has to be yes. 

[Davefevs]

50 minutes ago, Superjack said:

I'm not sure, Dave.

He seems to me to be a 'manager' (and this is the rub, he's a head coach) that has his favourites. Of course, all managers do to an extent, but with more experienced managers (hmmm... struggling to think of an example... ), they tend to give players that are out of favour a chance to work their way back in, barring an attitude problem of... ooh, let's say Bakinson.

We seem to be playing good football at the moment, and if Manning keeps that up and gets results, I really don't have too many problems with him. I think this whole forum knows with whom my problems lie. 

The two areas that I struggle to see improving are his in game management, and his propensity to play his favourites, regardless of their form and the form of alternatives.

It all smacks to me of a previous 'head coach' that I am aware that you are not keen on comparisons to.

 

“You’re not sure” - as in you think we have seen some man-management issues, ie favourites?  If so, then I’m on the fence / not concluded yet, but the fact that I’ve raised it, means I have doubts.  I’m just constantly observing.

[42nite]

If we lose and their keepers M.O.M. there's reason to feel pleased. 

If we lose and he's had nothing to do....that's not good. 

The latter seems to be the way we are heading at the moment.

 

 

[Sir Geoff]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

100% we needed McNally with the injuries and suspensions we had. Nobody knows if Atkinson is ever going to get near it, Naismith is totally unreliable, fitness wise and Dickie got crocked for nearly three months and is one of a few assets we have who we might get some decent dough for (which means the club will listen to offers whether we like it or not). JKL is doing it in League 2 (but he's missed a month or more injured himself too) and if he's up to the Championship he'll be getting minutes next season whether McNally is here or not.

But we could have loaned a centre half (I appreciate that costs too) and saved on £2 million plus 4 years wages

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

the pattern of if we don't score 1st, we more than likely won't win. 

In all fairness, it's pretty Championship wide this year. 

https://www.soccerstats.com/table.asp?league=england2&tid=sc

[Mr Popodopolous]

Only 20 games won out of 182 Championship Games in total from behind ie 0-1 to 2-1.

By process of elimination there must've been 20 0-0 draws this season.

44 Score Draws I make it. First Goal Wins whether directly or Trading Goals is pretty pivotal.

Edited Thursday at 19:54 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

The divisional average is 0.57 PPG when conceding first. This feels lower than prior years.

Edited Thursday at 19:49 by Mr Popodopolous

[Superjack]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

“You’re not sure” - as in you think we have seen some man-management issues, ie favourites?  If so, then I’m on the fence / not concluded yet, but the fact that I’ve raised it, means I have doubts.  I’m just constantly observing.

Well, me too. 

But as you might be aware, I observe from a distance nowadays, so I trust my instincts and impressions.

So you are almost certainly more adept at judgement than me. 

 

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Only 20 games won out of 182 Championship Games in total from behind ie 0-1 to 2-1.

By process of elimination there must've been 20 0-0 draws this season.

44 Score Draws I make it. First Goal Wins whether directly or Trading Goals is pretty pivotal.

Bang on:

[MigratedRobin]

After reading a load of these comments I suddenly realised why I don't visit this forum much anymore.

[Out of his pie crust]

1 hour ago, 42nite said:

If we lose and their keepers M.O.M. there's reason to feel pleased. 

If we lose and he's had nothing to do....that's not good. 

The latter seems to be the way we are heading at the moment.

 

 

Think it’s in the middle tbh. Had great chances to score in last 2 games. Commentator vs watford was lauding bachmann. Just need to execute better in final third…..shifting ball then shooting, runners off man on ball, quick 1-2s  etc..

[Superjack]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

“You’re not sure” - as in you think we have seen some man-management issues, ie favourites?  If so, then I’m on the fence / not concluded yet, but the fact that I’ve raised it, means I have doubts.  I’m just constantly observing.

 

1 hour ago, Superjack said:

Well, me too. 

But as you might be aware, I observe from a distance nowadays, so I trust my instincts and impressions.

So you are almost certainly more adept at judgement than me. 

 

As a caveat, you don't need to be there to know the selections for the first eleven and the subs that are made.

[Davefevs]

Being a little bit selective and mischievous here, but….

There was a bit of fuss a few weeks ago that we’d only lost twice after 9 games (we’d only won twice also), as we sat on 11 points and beneath mid-table.

In the 8 games since (1 game less), we’ve lost 3 (1 game more), but still got 11 points.

I still like the old “unbeaten run”, but maybe that’s because I grew up in 2 points for a win.  But it’s not progressive to keep getting draws.

What do others think now the draws have stopped coming at the same rate?

[Out of his pie crust]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Being a little bit selective and mischievous here, but….

There was a bit of fuss a few weeks ago that we’d only lost twice after 9 games (we’d only won twice also), as we sat on 11 points and beneath mid-table.

In the 8 games since (1 game less), we’ve lost 3 (1 game more), but still got 11 points.

I still like the old “unbeaten run”, but maybe that’s because I grew up in 2 points for a win.  But it’s not progressive to keep getting draws.

What do others think now the draws have stopped coming at the same rate?

Yeah I’d rather we went for it a bit more, the one win one loss vs 2 draws mindset. 

[Out of his pie crust]

I think the team at times lacks a little genuine belief at times, probably for firepower reasons that have been discussed at length. Maybe it’s a case of an extra midfield runner and accepting risk of counter attack 

[Superjack]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Being a little bit selective and mischievous here, but….

There was a bit of fuss a few weeks ago that we’d only lost twice after 9 games (we’d only won twice also), as we sat on 11 points and beneath mid-table.

In the 8 games since (1 game less), we’ve lost 3 (1 game more), but still got 11 points.

I still like the old “unbeaten run”, but maybe that’s because I grew up in 2 points for a win.  But it’s not progressive to keep getting draws.

What do others think now the draws have stopped coming at the same rate?

2 points for a win? 

What I think is that you are even older than me!

Probably why I think that you are one of my favourite posters in here.

[Solent Robin]

We all recognise the main problem of not scoring particularly when on top, which makes it more difficult when we go behind. It also means the difference between drawing and winning. Given that we do not have a reliable proven goal scorer, others need to contribute. This means getting into the box and being prepared to shoot. Strangely, Knight when playing further forward was prepared to do this. Twine is able to, as he did against Millwall.  Sykes can on the counter attack. Mehmeiti is erratic. Yu unsure about. With the height of Dickie and McNally set pieces need to be more productive. If our strikers are not going to score a glut of goals, they need to bring others into play effectively around the box. A confident Fally has shown he can do this earlier in the season. I don't think Wells does it consistently enough and that is not Armstrongs game. Therefore, injuries permitting we need to have the right combinations. Going back to a previous post of mine, I would like to see Twine and Bird behind Fally or Wells which would require wing backs to provide the width. I believe that this would provide greater options in the final third. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

40 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Being a little bit selective and mischievous here, but….

There was a bit of fuss a few weeks ago that we’d only lost twice after 9 games (we’d only won twice also), as we sat on 11 points and beneath mid-table.

In the 8 games since (1 game less), we’ve lost 3 (1 game more), but still got 11 points.

I still like the old “unbeaten run”, but maybe that’s because I grew up in 2 points for a win.  But it’s not progressive to keep getting draws.

What do others think now the draws have stopped coming at the same rate?

It's an interesting one really.

In a way, if you can't win a game make sure you don't lose it.. then it depends who the wins are against.

A draw and a win and a draw..that can keep a side ticking over- see WBA, see Sunderland with their injuries and suspensions have drawn 5 on the bounce and this can buy time.

Puts more pressure to win and given we haven't won back to back all season that margin for error drops away a bit albeit 29 Games still to go!

[tin]

Just now, Solent Robin said:

We all recognise the main problem of not scoring particularly when on top, which makes it more difficult when we go behind. It also means the difference between drawing and winning. Given that we do not have a reliable proven goal scorer, others need to contribute. This means getting into the box and being prepared to shoot. Strangely, Knight when playing further forward was prepared to do this. Twine is able to, as he did against Millwall.  Sykes can on the counter attack. Mehmeiti is erratic. Yu unsure about. With the height of Dickie and McNally set pieces need to be more productive. If our strikers are not going to score a glut of goals, they need to bring others into play effectively around the box. A confident Fally has shown he can do this earlier in the season. I don't think Wells does it consistently enough and that is not Armstrongs game. Therefore, injuries permitting we need to have the right combinations. Going back to a previous post of mine, I would like to see Twine and Bird behind Fally or Wells which would require wing backs to provide the width. I believe that this would provide greater options in the final third. 

It’s all good claiming a proven goalscorer would make the difference, but how many clear cut chances do we actually create? At Watford, for example, the fact was that the our best chance only possessed an xG of 0.09 and the 14 shots in the game collectively produced 0.52 xG. And I reckon we have to go back to Nicky Maynard as the last time the Lansdowns paid top dollar for a proven striker. They weren’t even willing to pay top dollar to keep Conway, so not for the first time we reap what we sow. 

I think we’re a clone of Swansea - easy on the eye at times, with a soft underbelly. We huff and puff but rarely blow the house down. 

[Davefevs]

34 minutes ago, Superjack said:

2 points for a win? 

What I think is that you are even older than me!

Probably why I think that you are one of my favourite posters in here.

54 matey

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, tin said:

It’s all good claiming a proven goalscorer would make the difference, but how many clear cut chances do we actually create? At Watford, for example, the fact was that the our best chance only possessed an xG of 0.09 and the 14 shots in the game collectively produced 0.52 xG. And I reckon we have to go back to Nicky Maynard as the last time the Lansdowns paid top dollar for a proven striker. They weren’t even willing to pay top dollar to keep Conway, so not for the first time we reap what we sow. 

I think we’re a clone of Swansea - easy on the eye at times, with a soft underbelly. We huff and puff but rarely blow the house down. 

See some similarities to Swansea but we are a bit less Possession obsessed and create more chances. Our game up there we did dominate, Possession aside. We seem better but not genuine Top 6 contenders atm IMO.

[FNQ]

30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What do others think now the draws have stopped coming at the same rate?

I must say Dave that I’m not really missing the draws like we saw a few weeks back at home to both Sheff Weds and Cardiff for example, especially the accompanying rubbish on field performances. Losing in the last week in competitive games to Sheff Utd, Burnley and Watford all by the odd goal whilst returning zero points shows us with much more credibility, and we now go into each game with belief that we can get a result. Playing like we have since Hoggy hit the reset button at Boro would also have seen those earlier drab draws disappear too, but in a good way.

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

But we could have loaned a centre half (I appreciate that costs too) and saved on £2 million plus 4 years wages

I think McNally is getting better all the time and is going to be a good signing for us but I appreciate that the current mood on here is one of complete and utter misery. If we had loaned him that would have been criticised too. Nige didn’t like loans and we all loved him for it……now we should be using loans.

I’m happy enough with McNally as a permanent signing but apparently in the minority. We’ll see what happens.

Edited Thursday at 22:28 by Numero Uno

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, FNQ said:

I must say Dave that I’m not really missing the draws like we saw a few weeks back at home to both Sheff Weds and Cardiff for example, especially the accompanying rubbish on field performances. Losing in the last week in competitive games to Sheff Utd, Burnley and Watford all by the odd goal whilst returning zero points shows us with much more credibility, and we now go into each game with belief that we can get a result. Playing like we have since Hoggy hit the reset button at Boro would also have seen those earlier drab draws disappear too, but in a good way.

Great answer.  Great context.  Ta.

 

[Superjack]

45 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

54 matey

In that case, I am right behind you. 

Not literally, obviously. 

52.

 

[Sir Geoff]

9 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

I think McNally is getting better all the time and is going to be a good signing for us but I appreciate that the current mood on here is one of complete and utter misery. If we had loaned him that would have been criticised too. Nige didn’t like loans and we all loved him for it……now we should be using loans.

I’m happy enough with McNally as a permanent signing but apparently in the minority. We’ll see what happens.

I'm not anti Mcnally and have never been a fan of loans. The loss of Dickie was obviously a blow and we clearly needed a Centre half before the deadline (although we had Naismith whom I like). Mcnally just seemed like a panic buy when a 6 month loan would have got us through to January and Atkinson and Dickies return.

[Solent Robin]

Signing McNally was a no brainer. Atkinson's return was uncertain and will he perform at his previous level again? Naismith is also injury prone and is woefully short of pace to play in a flat back four as was proven against Coventry. I would argue signing McNally permanently was good succession planning as Naismith will not be offered another contract next summer. But hey ho another stick to beat BT with.

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, Solent Robin said:

Signing McNally was a no brainer. Atkinson's return was uncertain and will he perform at his previous level again? Naismith is also injury prone and is woefully short of pace to play in a flat back four as was proven against Coventry. I would argue signing McNally permanently was good succession planning as Naismith will not be offered another contract next summer. But hey ho another stick to beat BT with.

McNally I agree is good all round by a range of metrics, the small caveat I'd say would be JKL and pathway?

Do we sell someone in the Summer, does JKL continue his development in League One next year and we reassess in 2026?

Edited Friday at 11:22 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Solent Robin said:

I would argue signing McNally permanently was good succession planning as Naismith will not be offered another contract next summer

We will find out in the summer.  Several moving parts, especially uncertainty re Atkinson.

But, if we assume (rightly or wrongly) that Real Big Rob returns as he was before, the expectation is that JKL will negate the need to replace the outgoing Naismith.  Is that fair?

Vyner, Dickie, Atkinson, McNally and JKL become the (5) first team CBs.  Yeah?

In that scenario, I’d be disappointed if he then decided he wanted another senior CB, wouldn’t you?

JCS probably becomes the same as JKL this season, a loan out.

[Major Isewater]

On 27/11/2024 at 00:20, Ska Junkie said:

This I totally agree with. Fally and Sincs are clearly not, yet, Championship standard and we desperately need another option/ competition for Nahki. Without that, we are destined to tread water even though I like the football we play, mostly.

The issue is that someone (Tins I would assume) has to hold their hands up and admit we wasted north of £5M on players that aren't ready yet. That isn't going to happen.

January? Gawd knows.

I would like to see us bring in a Championship quality striker , like Weimann or Billy Sharp. The old gunslingers who could contribute to goals on the pitch but also help the misfiring forwards develop. 
We just need someone to stick the ball in the back of the net when the opportunity arrives. 
Is that too much to ask ? 
With a finisher in the side we would have a few more points and no one questions whether Manning is the right man or not. 

Edited Friday at 11:43 by Major Isewater

[Solent Robin]

Understand McNally was on our radar for some while and had Championship experience. Bit like the Bird signing, you have got to get them while you can. You never know for certain how young players will progress either. However,  wouldn't need to add another CB unless Atkinson is found wanting and/or JKL fails to progess. A decision for next summer. 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I would like to see us bring in a Championship quality striker , like Weimann or Billy Sharp. The old gunslingers who could contribute to goals on the pitch but also help the misfiring forwards develop. 
We just need someone to stick the ball in the back of the net when the opportunity arrives. 
Is that too much to ask ? 
With a finisher in the side we would have a few more points and no one questions whether Manning is the right man or not. 

Are you not describing Sir Nahki of Wells?

[Solent Robin]

I think Wells is better away from home where has a bit more space and less likely to get out muscled. At home how often do you see midfield runners getting beyond him? He needs more support from a No10 that plays close to him i.e. Twine. Also due to injuries to Sykes and all our wing backs, we haven't had the width to more effectively break down defences and provide crosses. Mehmeiti is erratic and whilst Yu is tidy, he is not dynamic. We need the best combinations and partnerships to maximise the opportunities. 

 

 

 

[Son of Fred]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Are you not describing Sir Nahki of Wells?

And if he gets injured??...no one else here is battle hardened.

[Numero Uno]

5 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

I'm not anti Mcnally and have never been a fan of loans. The loss of Dickie was obviously a blow and we clearly needed a Centre half before the deadline (although we had Naismith whom I like). Mcnally just seemed like a panic buy when a 6 month loan would have got us through to January and Atkinson and Dickies return.

Not as confident as you on Atkinson, it’s taking him a long time to recover. Hopefully there isn’t a long term issue there.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Solent Robin said:

I think Wells is better away from home where has a bit more space and less likely to get out muscled. At home how often do you see midfield runners getting beyond him? He needs more support from a No10 that plays close to him i.e. Twine. Also due to injuries to Sykes and all our wing backs, we haven't had the width to more effectively break down defences and provide crosses. Mehmeiti is erratic and whilst Yu is tidy, he is not dynamic. We need the best combinations and partnerships to maximise the opportunities. 

 

 

 

Twine I dunno, just seems to me..

On paper a good player and yet.. does the team function as well with him often, remember Pring being exposed in the first few weeks then if he is central who drops out of our central 3 of McGuane, Knight and Bird which is developing very nicely.

That isn't to deny that I have reservations about Mehmeti, exciting though he can be.

Edited Friday at 14:35 by Mr Popodopolous