Andre Gray,

[Redandproud]

Still scoring goals for Plymouth, came on  against Watford scored 2 brilliant goals , if Plymouth can afford his wages, and we can't, what's going on, and they got him on a freebie, 

[Oh Louie louie]

He could be the difference in them staying up, he will have more goals than our main three strikers by xmas the way hes playing, id have taken him in a heartbeat.

[RobImps]

I'd be interested to learn what wages Fally & Sincs are on in relation to what we offered Conway. 

Conway on 6in12 at Boro, every chance he outscores all 3 of our strikers this season. 

What exactly was said about Conway at the fans forum? Along the lines we offered "the biggest deal to one of our academy products" wasn't it? I don't like the sound of that at all... Maybe being paranoid but sounds a lot like we won't pay the going rate just because we produced them

[Oh Louie louie]

We don't need to develop strikers we need somebody who can score on a regular basis now, wells gets injured we are in trouble 

[Fpcity]

What's with the threads on here about him? 

Were we on for him before he went to Plymouth or something? 

FWIW he's the type of striker we need I think. 

[Super]

53 minutes ago, Redandproud said:

Still scoring goals for Plymouth, came on  against Watford scored 2 brilliant goals , if Plymouth can afford his wages, and we can't, what's going on, and they got him on a freebie, 

Maybe it's not about money for him. He has a rich wife.

Edited Wednesday at 09:21 by Super

[Silvio Dante]

21 minutes ago, Fpcity said:

What's with the threads on here about him? 

Were we on for him before he went to Plymouth or something? 

FWIW he's the type of striker we need I think. 

We were. About 9 years before he went to Plymouth IIRC! Bloody Tinnion, not closing the deal in that time…

[GrahamC]

A relentlessly negative poster started suggesting him because he scored two on Friday night.

For balance @westonred also did so when he was a free agent.

We have already said it’s our policy not to sign old players looking for their last contract, so whether you think that’s right or not, we won’t be signing him.

[Northern Red]

I think you'll find Harry Cornick is the new anointed saviour.

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, RobImps said:

I'd be interested to learn what wages Fally & Sincs are on in relation to what we offered Conway. 

Conway on 6in12 at Boro, every chance he outscores all 3 of our strikers this season. 

What exactly was said about Conway at the fans forum? Along the lines we offered "the biggest deal to one of our academy products" wasn't it? I don't like the sound of that at all... Maybe being paranoid but sounds a lot like we won't pay the going rate just because we produced them

Nothing to do with 'academy products', more along the lines of the best deal the club have ever offered to a player of his age.

If you think we don't pay the going rate 'just because we produced them', see Vyner as an example of a home produced player who got a whopping deal.

 

[Alessandro]

This debate about Tommy's contract offer is pretty pointless.

What does "best offer for someone his age" even mean?

Could mean it put him in the top 3 earners in the squad.

Could mean it was still half what the best earner in the squad is on.

For example (guesses), he was on £1k per week. We offer £8k. Our top earner is on £15K. Boro offer £20K.

Or he was on £1k per week. We offer £12k. Our top earner is on £15K. Boro offer £15K.

Both very different and we just don't know - but my suspicion is - if it was more the second version - you can bet your bottom dollar Tinnion would have said we offered him "one of the best deals in the squad, full stop", not "for his age" and if we were anywhere near what Boro were offering he would have said that too. 

So my guess, although pointless and based on my own logic and not any fact is it's probably closer to my first example.

Either way, I believe he left for footballing reasons and frankly, I don't blame him.

Edited Wednesday at 10:17 by Alessandro

[Phantom]

1 hour ago, Oh Louie louie said:

He could be the difference in them staying up, he will have more goals than our main three strikers by xmas the way hes playing, id have taken him in a heartbeat.

I wonder how many goals the rest of our team score compared to Argyle?

Would be want one player scoring 10, or 5 players scoring 2?

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, RobImps said:

I'd be interested to learn what wages Fally & Sincs are on in relation to what we offered Conway. 

Conway on 6in12 at Boro, every chance he outscores all 3 of our strikers this season. 

What exactly was said about Conway at the fans forum? Along the lines we offered "the biggest deal to one of our academy products" wasn't it? I don't like the sound of that at all... Maybe being paranoid but sounds a lot like we won't pay the going rate just because we produced them

He’ll be on far more at Boro than anyone in our squad is my guess.

My hunch is Mayulu isn’t on much at all, joining us after only one season in senior football in Austria.

Armstrong (whatever I think of him) will be on decent money by our squad’s standards, having joined from a rival Championship club.

[Charlie BCFC]

Fair play to him, but I disagree with the other replies to say he’s what we need. We already have one “experienced” striker in Wells and when you consider what our policy is he wouldn’t fit. Therefore I’d rather what we have as atleast there is a higher ceiling there

[RobImps]

I just can't believe he wanted out at all costs... Maybe he wanted more than we were prepared to offer

But, with hindsight being 20/20, I think we dropped the ball here. 

He's likely to outscore all 3 of our striking options combined and with the way we are creating steady flow of chances now - we'd be comfortably better off with him spearheading our attack. 

[Redandproud]

30 minutes ago, RobImps said:

I just can't believe he wanted out at all costs... Maybe he wanted more than we were prepared to offer

But, with hindsight being 20/20, I think we dropped the ball here. 

He's likely to outscore all 3 of our striking options combined and with the way we are creating steady flow of chances now - we'd be comfortably better off with him spearheading our attack. 

I know that in the Cottrill  era, we tried to sign him , he was offered 15k a week, he wanted 19k , he walked out, he went to Burnley? (I think),don't try and tell me Plymouth can afford that, 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Nothing to do with 'academy products', more along the lines of the best deal the club have ever offered to a player of his age.

If you think we don't pay the going rate 'just because we produced them', see Vyner as an example of a home produced player who got a whopping deal.

 

Yep, but you could argue he was underpaid before that…and he had to dig his heels in and threaten to leave to get that deal.

[Davefevs]

49 minutes ago, Redandproud said:

I know that in the Cottrill  era, we tried to sign him , he was offered 15k a week, he wanted 19k , he walked out, he went to Burnley? (I think),don't try and tell me Plymouth can afford that, 

From what I was told….Cotts / Burt agreed £14k p.w with him, he was happy.  Pelling then meddled with Brentford on the transfer fee (wanted to pay less than the £4m(ish) Cotts / Burt agreed with The Bees, so Brentford touted him out again.  Burnley came knocking, fee rise to £6m, and Gray negotiated £18k p.w (roughly same numbers as you).  I don’t believe he walked out.  He just took the better offer from the club with much better prospects, as he proved a week or two later when we played them.

That was 9 years ago, I suspect Andre Gray has earned £50k+ a week at stages in between then and now.  He was a PL striker, 100+ apps / 20+ goals.

And I bet Plymouth could pay that money today for the right player if they do wish.  But I suspect an OOC Gray has had to lower his demands for this short term deal.

[Mendip City]

I think salary for TC might be a factor but is ultimately irrelevant.  
Let’s say we matched what Boro offered (I doubt we did)… there are plenty of other factors about ambition and having seen your peers (Scott and Semenyo for example) progress. 
I’d imagine TC wants to 1) play in the Prem and 2) play regularly for Scotland. 

Where will he best reach those ambitions? Boro or City?

Thats the real problem the club needs to solve - AMBITION. We’re an accomplished mid-table side but is that really it? I think, under this ownership and management, yes that’s it and we’ll continue to lose ambitious players. 
 

Oh and back to Andre Gray…. He could have been approaching 10 years here….. if we’d been more ambitious! 
 

[Mendip City]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

From what I was told….Cotts / Burt agreed £14k p.w with him, he was happy.  Pelling then meddled with Brentford on the transfer fee (wanted to pay less than the £4m(ish) Cotts / Burt agreed with The Bees, so Brentford touted him out again.  Burnley came knocking, fee rise to £6m, and Gray negotiated £18k p.w (roughly same numbers as you).  I don’t believe he walked out.  He just took the better offer from the club with much better prospects, as he proved a week or two later when we played them.

That was 9 years ago, I suspect Andre Gray has earned £50k+ a week at stages in between then and now.  He was a PL striker, 100+ apps / 20+ goals.

And I bet Plymouth could pay that money today for the right player if they do wish.  But I suspect an OOC Gray has had to lower his demands for this short term deal.

Football heads versus bean counters…. At least we’ve solved that problem….not! 

[Mr Popodopolous]

23 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Football heads versus bean counters…. At least we’ve solved that problem….not! 

At the time I still think we had half an eye on FFP. The Rules seem to catch us into a cycle of needing to be cautious even though we've never failed, in 2015-16 it was the final year of the 1 year £13m Loss rule and our forecast uptick when Stadium etc complete coincided with the change to 3 Years.

(Albeit the only penalties for the 1 Year Rule were Embargo if stay down, Fine if go up). I don't recall if there was a final 1 Year Test in December 2016 and maybe strengthening then would've saved some costs later in the season so it all remains balanced, but in the event of fail and stay down it could've led to an Embargo in January 2017. I appreciate my take maybe overly cautious however.

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

41 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

From what I was told….Cotts / Burt agreed £14k p.w with him, he was happy.  Pelling then meddled with Brentford on the transfer fee (wanted to pay less than the £4m(ish) Cotts / Burt agreed with The Bees, so Brentford touted him out again.  Burnley came knocking, fee rise to £6m, and Gray negotiated £18k p.w (roughly same numbers as you).  I don’t believe he walked out.  He just took the better offer from the club with much better prospects, as he proved a week or two later when we played them.

It was mentioned at the time that we had agreed a deal with the player and Brentford at the very start of the Summer before proceeding to mess Brentford around with the fee so they pulled out. 

Then we signed Kodjia.

We tried to sign Dwight Gayle and failed due to wage demands before going back to Gray at the last minute looking a bit desperate. Gray had other clubs interested who weren’t allegedly going to fart around with the fee and wages.

Edit: did we miss out on Harry McGuire for the same reason that summer or is my memory playing tricks on me?

Edited Wednesday at 12:43 by Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan

[Nogbad the Bad]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, but you could argue he was underpaid before that…and he had to dig his heels in and threaten to leave to get that deal.

Well you can argue anything, for instance that he took many years to establish himself and he was fortunate that the club kept faith in him.

It's not as though he was in demand from other clubs in his earlier years, and if he threatened to leave unless he got that deal it's also a matter of opinion whether the club made the right decision.

While I rate Zac as a reasonably solid player who rarely lets us down it's debatable he was so irreplaceable that he merited becoming a top paid player at AG, and also whether he'll even be a first choice pick when we have Dickie, Atkinson and McNally all available and the likes of Campbell -Slowey & Knight-Lebel coming through, but it's all about opinions.

My view is he's maybe been quite fortunate that the club really do want academy players to come through - so were very understanding and patient in his case - and though not pulling up any trees he gradually became more reliable and consistent as the club went through a series of manager and squad disruptions, and came out the other side establishing himself in the first team when there were certainly times where his career could have taken a different path.

Reasonable player, but according to @petehinton he's now one of our very top earners and on more than Dickie? That's OTT imo.

[petehinton]

2 hours ago, Alessandro said:

This debate about Tommy's contract offer is pretty pointless.

What does "best offer for someone his age" even mean?

Could mean it put him in the top 3 earners in the squad.

Could mean it was still half what the best earner in the squad is on.

For example (guesses), he was on £1k per week. We offer £8k. Our top earner is on £15K. Boro offer £20K.

Or he was on £1k per week. We offer £12k. Our top earner is on £15K. Boro offer £15K.

Both very different and we just don't know - but my suspicion is - if it was more the second version - you can bet your bottom dollar Tinnion would have said we offered him "one of the best deals in the squad, full stop", not "for his age" and if we were anywhere near what Boro were offering he would have said that too. 

So my guess, although pointless and based on my own logic and not any fact is it's probably closer to my first example.

Either way, I believe he left for footballing reasons and frankly, I don't blame him.

I also think the “he got given some very bad advice” rhetoric doesn’t wash either tbh. Thats very subjective. 
 

A move to a bigger club, with better chance of promotion & no doubt much better wages. 
 

Doesn’t strike me a bad move driven by bad advice one bit. 

[Davefevs]

47 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Well you can argue anything, for instance that he took many years to establish himself and he was fortunate that the club kept faith in him.

It's not as though he was in demand from other clubs in his earlier years, and if he threatened to leave unless he got that deal it's also a matter of opinion whether the club made the right decision.

While I rate Zac as a reasonably solid player who rarely lets us down it's debatable he was so irreplaceable that he merited becoming a top paid player at AG, and also whether he'll even be a first choice pick when we have Dickie, Atkinson and McNally all available and the likes of Campbell -Slowey & Knight-Lebel coming through, but it's all about opinions.

My view is he's maybe been quite fortunate that the club really do want academy players to come through - so were very understanding and patient in his case - and though not pulling up any trees he gradually became more reliable and consistent as the club went through a series of manager and squad disruptions, and came out the other side establishing himself in the first team when there were certainly times where his career could have taken a different path.

Reasonable player, but according to @petehinton he's now one of our very top earners and on more than Dickie? That's OTT imo.

Aye, all true Noggers.

I guess my view is that we probably had several years “cheap” (don’t take that too literally) use of him, and it goes back to my “goodwill” comment on Conway, that had we kept him a bit sweeter earlier on you might buy something back later on.

[Alessandro]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

I also think the “he got given some very bad advice” rhetoric doesn’t wash either tbh. Thats very subjective. 
 

A move to a bigger club, with better chance of promotion & no doubt much better wages. 
 

Doesn’t strike me a bad move driven by bad advice one bit. 

I said exactly the same thing in the Conway thread - that comment was not a good look for Tinnion for many reasons, not least his 6 goals already, his team sat in 5th and his no doubt bigger bank balance. Fair play to him IMO.

[REDOXO]

5 hours ago, RobImps said:

I'd be interested to learn what wages Fally & Sincs are on in relation to what we offered Conway. 

Conway on 6in12 at Boro, every chance he outscores all 3 of our strikers this season. 

What exactly was said about Conway at the fans forum? Along the lines we offered "the biggest deal to one of our academy products" wasn't it? I don't like the sound of that at all... Maybe being paranoid but sounds a lot like we won't pay the going rate just because we produced them

I would like to know the wage difference too!

[Fuber]

4 hours ago, RobImps said:

I just can't believe he wanted out at all costs... Maybe he wanted more than we were prepared to offer

But, with hindsight being 20/20, I think we dropped the ball here. 

He's likely to outscore all 3 of our striking options combined and with the way we are creating steady flow of chances now - we'd be comfortably better off with him spearheading our attack. 

I think it came down to treatment more than money.

If the offer was made then rescinded with a new one on the table - then it comes down to just being dispectful.

If he felt it best to move on, it's just that. Imo.

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Aye, all true Noggers.

I guess my view is that we probably had several years “cheap” (don’t take that too literally) use of him, and it goes back to my “goodwill” comment on Conway, that had we kept him a bit sweeter earlier on you might buy something back later on.

Out of interest Dave what do your stats say about Zac in comparison to our other centre backs?

And what price do you think the club would put on him if there was interest?

[Super]

More likely we're looking at this one...

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Out of interest Dave what do your stats say about Zac in comparison to our other centre backs?

And what price do you think the club would put on him if there was interest?

Here’s his data, cut before the weekend.

I think it describes him pretty well:

bottom right (Orange) - not a dominator

bottom left (grey / black) - gets on the ball a lot, but mixed distribution

In comparison to Dickie and McNally:

 

what price;

Im sure the club would put him at £5m+…and nobody would pay it!
 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Here’s his data, cut before the weekend.

I think it describes him pretty well:

bottom right (Orange) - not a dominator

bottom left (grey / black) - gets on the ball a lot, but mixed distribution

In comparison to Dickie and McNally:

 

what price;

Im sure the club would put him at £5m+…and nobody would pay it!
 

Would it be undervalued or overvalued though?

In a post Covid market where Collins for £10m but especially Souttar for £15m...

[fisherrich]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

From what I was told….Cotts / Burt agreed £14k p.w with him, he was happy.  Pelling then meddled with Brentford on the transfer fee (wanted to pay less than the £4m(ish) Cotts / Burt agreed with The Bees, so Brentford touted him out again.  Burnley came knocking, fee rise to £6m, and Gray negotiated £18k p.w (roughly same numbers as you).  I don’t believe he walked out.  He just took the better offer from the club with much better prospects, as he proved a week or two later when we played them.

That was 9 years ago, I suspect Andre Gray has earned £50k+ a week at stages in between then and now.  He was a PL striker, 100+ apps / 20+ goals.

And I bet Plymouth could pay that money today for the right player if they do wish.  But I suspect an OOC Gray has had to lower his demands for this short term deal.

All about “ifs and buts” in life, but if we had signed Andre Gray, we would probably made the Prem back then. But who knows? What I do know, is the club was on a roll back then and that the club has gone backwards in the last 9 years.

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Would it be undervalued or overvalued though?

In a post Covid market where Collins for £10m but especially Souttar for £15m...

Assuming you don’t think he’s wanted by a PL club, and assume you are another Championship suitor, how much would you offer as your top-whack for him this January?

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Assuming you don’t think he’s wanted by a PL club, and assume you are another Championship suitor, how much would you offer as your top-whack for him this January?

Good question, just looking for comparables. That Souttar one especially looks a shocker relative to position and subsequent progress.

18 months left, in and around prime years for his position..£5m isn't crazy.

Edited Wednesday at 17:01 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

£4m perhaps being a bit more conservative.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Good question, just looking for comparables. That Souttar one especially looks a shocker relative to position and subsequent progress.

18 months left, in and around prime years for his position..£5m isn't crazy.

I’d go £3m max.

I also think we were right to re-sign him on big wages though.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’d go £3m max.

I also think we were right to re-sign him on big wages though.

What if he had 2.5 years left or doesn't that really move the dial for you?

I agree re-signed him and on good wages was correct..and when we have them all fit and in form at once, Max, Zak, Big Rob 2 and increasingly McGuane are the cornerstone for me of our defensive structure.

(4-3-3 or some variant of, Tanner at RB).

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What if he had 2.5 years left or doesn't that really move the dial for you?

I agree re-signed him and on good wages was correct..and when we have them all fit and in form at once, Max, Zak, Big Rob 2 and increasingly McGuane are the cornerstone for me of our defensive structure.

(4-3-3 or some variant of, Tanner at RB).

He hasn’t, and no it doesn’t.

As it stands, although I see McNally replacing Naismith, I still wonder how JKL pushes himself into next season, unless clear commitment to go with and stick with a back-3.

5 into 2 don’t go imho.  ZV, LM, RD, RA…JKL

[maxjak]

Let's wait and see how Mr Gray performs on this coming Saturday?   If he is a flash in the pan,,or if he retains that ability that he possessed 5/6 years ago?   I understand why supporters are frustrated when they see other teams strikers scoring goals......but our days of giving out paydays to short term solutions are over?    I think we will win against Plymouth this weekend...............Andre Gray  or not?   

[Cityboy1954]

11 hours ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said:

It was mentioned at the time that we had agreed a deal with the player and Brentford at the very start of the Summer before proceeding to mess Brentford around with the fee so they pulled out. 

Then we signed Kodjia.

We tried to sign Dwight Gayle and failed due to wage demands before going back to Gray at the last minute looking a bit desperate. Gray had other clubs interested who weren’t allegedly going to fart around with the fee and wages.

Edit: did we miss out on Harry McGuire for the same reason that summer or is my memory playing tricks on me?

All true yes and look what we got now

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

21 hours ago, RobImps said:

I'd be interested to learn what wages Fally & Sincs are on in relation to what we offered Conway. 

Conway on 6in12 at Boro, every chance he outscores all 3 of our strikers this season. 

What exactly was said about Conway at the fans forum? Along the lines we offered "the biggest deal to one of our academy products" wasn't it? I don't like the sound of that at all... Maybe being paranoid but sounds a lot like we won't pay the going rate just because we produced them

Celtic came in for him, we offered him a really good contract, Celtic pull out, He was going to sign our Contract, we changed it to a shittier contract, he refused, that upset him and refused another contract and was going to on a free at the end of his contract, we sold him to Boro! 
 

all that over the space of around 18 months! That’s just a quick summary but I think you get the jist!

[Henry]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

He hasn’t, and no it doesn’t.

As it stands, although I see McNally replacing Naismith, I still wonder how JKL pushes himself into next season, unless clear commitment to go with and stick with a back-3.

5 into 2 don’t go imho.  ZV, LM, RD, RA…JKL

Don’t forget Campbell Slowey. Tinnion bigged him up more than JKL at the forum.

[Silvio Dante]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

He hasn’t, and no it doesn’t.

As it stands, although I see McNally replacing Naismith, I still wonder how JKL pushes himself into next season, unless clear commitment to go with and stick with a back-3.

5 into 2 don’t go imho.  ZV, LM, RD, RA…JKL

Was having this chat on Tuesday. I don’t think we’ll see JKL in a city shirt again to be honest. He isn’t going to want to come back here and be 5th choice centre half after a good loan spell and international recognition. So it’s either another loan or a transfer.

For all he’s improved recently (although still not sold), this was one of the issues with the McNally signing. That, at a stroke, made Kal 5th choice and meant as opposed to two senior for every position we had five into two (yes, I know we can play 3 at the back), with JKL to become that 5th choice assuming Kal goes. No issue in the signing if McNally was an upgrade on the existing seniors, but I don’t think he is.
 

I remember a wise man once said “If we have someone from the academy who will be ready in a year you maybe do a loan but you don’t block that pathway”

Wise words……

Edited Thursday at 07:40 by Silvio Dante

[Red Cyril 2]

On 27/11/2024 at 08:41, RobImps said:

I'd be interested to learn what wages Fally & Sincs are on in relation to what we offered Conway. 

Conway on 6in12 at Boro, every chance he outscores all 3 of our strikers this season. 

What exactly was said about Conway at the fans forum? Along the lines we offered "the biggest deal to one of our academy products" wasn't it? I don't like the sound of that at all... Maybe being paranoid but sounds a lot like we won't pay the going rate just because we produced them

That strikes me as flawed logic. It strikes me we just won't pay the going rate full stop. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Henry said:

Don’t forget Campbell Slowey. Tinnion bigged him up more than JKL at the forum.

Don’t forget Duncan Idehen!

I’m trying to remember the name of a young CB who was pushed our way, but BT declined as he thought Idehen was better.

@Harry

@redcherryberry

can you remember who it was?

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

Was having this chat on Tuesday. I don’t think we’ll see JKL in a city shirt again to be honest. He isn’t going to want to come back here and be 5th choice centre half after a good loan spell and international recognition. So it’s either another loan or a transfer.

For all he’s improved recently (although still not sold), this was one of the issues with the McNally signing. That, at a stroke, made Kal 5th choice and meant as opposed to two senior for every position we had five into two (yes, I know we can play 3 at the back), with JKL to become that 5th choice assuming Kal goes. No issue in the signing if McNally was an upgrade on the existing seniors, but I don’t think he is.
 

I remember a wise man once said “If we have someone from the academy who will be ready in a year you maybe do a loan but you don’t block that pathway”

Wise words……

In the summer and into next season, the JKL situation will provide some evidence as to what kind of pathway we have.  Ditto SPH too.  If you take JCS, it’s ok bigging him up, but is he any different to JKL last season, sitting on the bench?  Will Manning use him for meaningful minutes this season?  What will happen next summer to him?  Will he need a Lg2 loan despite having sat on a Championship bench x times.  JKL was a sub 41 times last season btw.

 

[Harry]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Don’t forget Duncan Idehen!

I’m trying to remember the name of a young CB who was pushed our way, but BT declined as he thought Idehen was better.

@Harry

@redcherryberry

can you remember who it was?

In the summer and into next season, the JKL situation will provide some evidence as to what kind of pathway we have.  Ditto SPH too.  If you take JCS, it’s ok bigging him up, but is he any different to JKL last season, sitting on the bench?  Will Manning use him for meaningful minutes this season?  What will happen next summer to him?  Will he need a Lg2 loan despite having sat on a Championship bench x times.  JKL was a sub 41 times last season btw.

 

Will Armitage. Went to Southampton from Cheltenham 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 Goals, 1 Assist for Gray so far in 6 Games albeit form is temporary or can be, need a wider sample size to see.