Liam Pre Plymouth - Shaven (Head) Haven

[Malago]

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/video/interviews/mannings-plymouth-preview/
 

Downbeat, as you’d expect after 2 defeats.  No new injury problems.  Squad as you were.

[Silvio Dante]

First off - he’s fully embracing the rugged look!

 

Notes

- Frustrated with one point return from last two. Thought finished game well against Burnley and deserved a point. Excellent Tuesday bar the finish, asked a lot of questions, played on front foot but didn’t create good goalscoring opportunities or lacked “detail” when we did get in position

- Lack of goals not a concern but more of a frustration - have two teams on the pitch, got in really good positions against Burnley

- Asked whether FM/SA were “championship ready”. Said that he said from day one they weren’t ready to do a 45-46 game season, not a great deal of goalscorers out there. (Shoehorned in a reference to “Twineys” effort!)

- Not creating enough chances off some good deliveries from set pieces and the whole team need to deliver goals

- Asked about January window and whether we’d look for a striker if goalscoring issues persist. Non commital on that one, stated it was always ongoing.

- Asked about Cornick. LM commended him as a role model and the career to date, stated he spoke to him in the summer and said minutes would be limited but HC decided to stay. HC is an option and not ruled out.

- Injuries. Everyone came through Tuesday and no new knocks. Sam Bell is not far away. Kal, McCrorie and Sykes are on the grass and should be in team training soon. Josh Stokes is back with Cambridge, LM thought he was excellent in the U21s. Rob Atkinson needed minutes so chose to put match minutes in him on Monday.

- Thinks Vyner had really progressed, saw him when Oxford played us and thinks he’s got more consistent

- Asked about Roberts RWB. @Davefevs - at this point the “tell” was pronounced! Stated that he thinks it worked being a 5 both first and second half, HR has played there before and prefers him on the left but would be happy to do it again.

- We need to shift away from entitlement to win at home. Last season we weren’t great at home (referenced Swansea) and the level has gone up but we need to learn how to win, and LM believes we’re close

Overall - a lot to agree with there in terms of how we’ve played. I’d disagree we merited a point against Burnley and us getting into areas was “allowed”. We won’t see Cornick from his manner on answering that question and I don’t think from his “tell” he was happy with the Roberts experiment or our current front options. Interesting to also note he’s comfortable enough to reference poor performance last season and it has improved.

[maxjak]

Thank Christ he got rid of that follicle shrub languishing like a lonely island?    It looks much better.....obviously his best friend has told him that he was beginning to look like Steve Mclarens lost twin?  Apparently not concerned about the lack of goals?   And he states   "We asked a lot of questions?"  Sorry to appear a smartass, but my question is "why didn't we buy a half decent goalscorer"   If he has the courage of his convictions, he needs to start Fally on Saturday, not only to give our 34 year old a rest, but to give Mayulu a chance to prove   himself, as 10 minutes at the end of games is not fair to the lad?    And if he does not cut it, he can always bring Nakhi on for the last half hour?  PS. He mentions dangerous set pieces?  I think i have seen  us supply around 4 so far this season?   I wish he could be honest and state that............our set piece delivery needs work?

Edited Thursday at 18:47 by maxjak

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Interesting to also note he’s comfortable enough to reference poor performance last season and it has improved.

But not at the time!  Nor were some fans either though!!!

=====

I’ll look forward to his poker traits on show.

21 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Asked whether FM/SA were “championship ready”. Said that he said from day one they weren’t ready to do a 45-46 game season, not a great deal of goalscorers out there. (Shoehorned in a reference to “Twineys” effort!)

Interesting terminology.

If not ready, 2+2, we weren’t serious about this season, because for the opening 5 league games, they shared the 90 mins, Wells was 3rd choice.  I will listen later to get a true sense, but sounds like a bit of revising history.

[Silvio Dante]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But not at the time!  Nor were some fans either though!!!

 

That was my thought I was just too polite to say it

[GrahamC]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But not at the time!  Nor were some fans either though!!!

=====

I’ll look forward to his poker traits on show.

Interesting terminology.

If not ready, 2+2, we weren’t serious about this season, because for the opening 5 league games, they shared the 90 mins, Wells was 3rd choice.  I will listen later to get a true sense, but sounds like a bit of revising history.

Armstrong made 39 Championship appearances last season, I’m not having that.

Personally I don’t think he’s good enough but that’s a completely different question.

Fally? Fair enough, just one season as a squad player in senior football in Austria, different scenario totally.

Edited Thursday at 18:53 by GrahamC

[GrahamC]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Double post.

Edited Thursday at 18:52 by GrahamC

[1960maaan]

39 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

- Asked whether FM/SA were “championship ready”. Said that he said from day one they weren’t ready to do a 45-46 game season

What does that even mean ? 
Because 

7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Armstrong made 39 Championship appearances last season, I’m not having that.

Personally I don’t think he’s good enough but that’s a completely different question.

Fally? Fair enough, just one season as a squad player in senior football in Austria, different scenario totally.

Exactly this .
maybe Fally could be looked at as not ready for 46 games of Championship football while moving to a new Country, that I totally get ,  but Armstrong ???

It's just nonsense , if he meant they weren't up to leading the line for a Championship side expecting to challenge, why buy them or more to the point who chose them ? 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Armstrong made 39 Championship appearances last season, I’m not having that.

Personally I don’t think he’s good enough but that’s a completely different question.

Fally? Fair enough, just one season as a squad player in senior football in Austria, different scenario totally.

Only 19 starts though.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Armstrong made 39 Championship appearances last season, I’m not having that.

Personally I don’t think he’s good enough but that’s a completely different question.

Fally? Fair enough, just one season as a squad player in senior football in Austria, different scenario totally.

I’ve now watched and listened.

Nor am I (Graham and Silvio).

With a one striker system, the expectation was that Armstrong and Mayulu would share the 46-game donkey-work.  Assuming he stuck with a one-striker system, and their fitness prevailed, he would’ve expected 85-90% of minutes to have come from them.  Wells was his 10-15% man, topping up his own contribution with minutes when Manning needed to go two up top, or might want to play a secondary striker instead of a 10.

In 17 league games there was no way he expected Fally to have played just 232 mins and be an unused sub 6 times.

Nor did he say anything of the sort, as per his interview “I was clear before the season started…”.

Mayulu: 15.2% of 1530 mins

Armstrong: 45.0% of 1530 mins

Wells: 43.4% of 1530 mins

The two new signings have covered 60.2% on mins.

 

 

As you can see Nahki has started the last 8 games.  Just 54 mins have been played with 2 of the 3 on the pitch together.  Even for Nahki, 8 starts on the spin was not the script.

Their minutes split are largely down to how they’ve (under)performed, not as per a planned usage pre-season.

He’s “having one”!!!

I’m not having it!

edit; I forgot to add, all Nahki’s pre-season minutes were as a SS/10, sharing minutes with Josh Stokes, whilst we waited for Twine to arrive.

27 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

It's just nonsense , if he meant they weren't up to leading the line for a Championship side expecting to challenge, why buy them or more to the point who chose them ? 

Exactly!

Edited Thursday at 19:55 by Davefevs

[The Original OTIB]

28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve now watched and listened.

Nor am I (Graham and Silvio).

With a one striker system, the expectation was that Armstrong and Mayulu would share the 46-game donkey-work.  Assuming he stuck with a one-striker system, and their fitness prevailed, he would’ve expected 85-90% of minutes to have come from them.  Wells was his 10-15% man, topping up his own contribution with minutes when Manning needed to go two up top, or might want to play a secondary striker instead of a 10.

In 17 league games there was no way he expected Fally to have played just 232 mins and be an unused sub 6 times.

Nor did he say anything of the sort, as per his interview “I was clear before the season started…”.

Mayulu: 15.2% of 1530 mins

Armstrong: 45.0% of 1530 mins

Wells: 43.4% of 1530 mins

The two new signings have covered 60.2% on mins.

 

 

As you can see Nahki has started the last 8 games.  Just 54 mins have been played with 2 of the 3 on the pitch together.  Even for Nahki, 8 starts on the spin was not the script.

Their minutes split are largely down to how they’ve (under)performed, not as per a planned usage pre-season.

He’s “having one”!!!

I’m not having it!

edit; I forgot to add, all Nahki’s pre-season minutes were as a SS/10, sharing minutes with Josh Stokes, whilst we waited for Twine to arrive.

Exactly!

I can see him playing Twine as a striker from time to time now rather than admit it does not work having him and Bird in the same road, oh and then saying it was in the script all along.

 

 

Might work though ...

Edited Thursday at 20:22 by The Original OTIB

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, The Original OTIB said:

I can see him playing Twine as a striker from time to time now rather than admit it does not work having him and Bird in the same road, oh and then saying it was in the script all along.

 

 

Might work though ...

Double false-9.

LJ - hold my beer!

[Sleepy1968]

Our 'new strikers' situation is like trying to convince someone that two unpeeled potatoes are oven ready chips.

When you've just bought one new potato, and one sweet potato.

On a serious note, I'm coming around to the idea that Fally needs to start games if he's going to stand a chance of making it.

[spudski]

26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Double false-9.

LJ - hold my beer!

Tbh...it's not a bad idea.

Look at the list of top scorers in the Championship. It's not mainly strikers. It's spread throughout positions.

If Fally and Armstrong aren't ' goalscorers '...then what attributes do they actually bring to the team?

If you are bought to score goals...and you are scoring less than others in the team, then you better have other attributes like assisting.

I'd happily have players up front that are better at assisting and making chances...as most players can put the ball away when the opportunity arises. 

It's often decision making that makes the difference in the last third. 

[redsquirrel]

21 minutes ago, spudski said:

Tbh...it's not a bad idea.

Look at the list of top scorers in the Championship. It's not mainly strikers. It's spread throughout positions.

If Fally and Armstrong aren't ' goalscorers '...then what attributes do they actually bring to the team?

If you are bought to score goals...and you are scoring less than others in the team, then you better have other attributes like assisting.

I'd happily have players up front that are better at assisting and making chances...as most players can put the ball away when the opportunity arises. 

It's often decision making that makes the difference in the last third. 

wish someone would tell that to anis

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Only 19 starts though.

Irrelevant.

He got on the pitch in virtually every (85%) game for QPR last season, so that isn’t someone who isn’t ready for Championship football, even if the plan was always to give Wells some, (but definitely not this many) games.

Fally was adapting to a new country, new league, different language- I get all that, I didn’t ever expect him to do a Kodjia but they are 2 totally different circumstances.

[Ian M]

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

What does that even mean ? 
Because 

Exactly this .
maybe Fally could be looked at as not ready for 46 games of Championship football while moving to a new Country, that I totally get ,  but Armstrong ???

It's just nonsense , if he meant they weren't up to leading the line for a Championship side expecting to challenge, why buy them or more to the point who chose them ? 

Am I the only one to think he meant not ready yet in terms of "consistency of performance at their age" as he then went on to say Sinclair had a good spell at the start of the season?

 

[1960maaan]

Just now, Ian M said:

Am I the only one to think he meant not ready yet in terms of "consistency of performance at their age" as he then went on to say Sinclair had a good spell at the start of the season?

 

They were supposedly brought in to help our top 6 push , young inconsistent striker don't scream playoff push. 

[sephjnr]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Interesting terminology.

If not ready, 2+2, we weren’t serious about this season, because for the opening 5 league games, they shared the 90 mins, Wells was 3rd choice.  I will listen later to get a true sense, but sounds like a bit of revising history.

I say this with cynicism, but my guess is that he's anticipating either one of these or both being loaned out at some point.

 

[Ian M]

1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

They were supposedly brought in to help our top 6 push , young inconsistent striker don't scream playoff push. 

Does anything about this club scream playoff push?

[spudski]

10 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

wish someone would tell that to anis

The love child of Manning...only second to good Ol' Twiney.

The way he licks Twines arse makes me sick. 

It's getting beyond a joke how he refers to him, compared to others. 

[Silvio Dante]

11 minutes ago, spudski said:

The love child of Manning...only second to good Ol' Twiney.

The way he licks Twines arse makes me sick. 

It's getting beyond a joke how he refers to him, compared to others. 

To be fair, he’s just balancing me out

[1960maaan]

16 minutes ago, Ian M said:

Does anything about this club scream playoff push?

Now you mention it ..... 

[BeggyBlaggers]

1 hour ago, The Original OTIB said:

I can see him playing Twine as a striker from time to time now rather than admit it does not work having him and Bird in the same road, oh and then saying it was in the script all along.

 

 

Might work though ...

He'll be shoehorning him in goal just so Twiney gets his minutes

[Silvio Dante]

17 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

They were supposedly brought in to help our top 6 push , young inconsistent striker don't scream playoff push. 

I think they were brought in on a bit of a “Moneyball” basis. If you were looking at attributes, Armstrong is nearing 20/20 on physicality and acceleration and Mayulu is high ranked on touch and technique from what I’ve seen. So, we thought “ah, that gives us the total package”. 
 

But that only works, in a non “special teams” sport, if you play them together. And we ain’t going to do that (and even if we did, it might not work)

[BeggyBlaggers]

19 minutes ago, Ian M said:

Does anything about this club scream playoff push?

Tinnion couldnt even spell playoff push

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

But that only works, in a non “special teams” sport, if you play them together. And we ain’t going to do that (and even if we did, it might not work)

I would like to see it , not just thrown on in a desperate attempt to grab something at the end of the game , but from the start , to give them time to see if it might work.

[Silvio Dante]

1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

I would like to see it , not just thrown on in a desperate attempt to grab something at the end of the game , but from the start , to give them time to see if it might work.

I’d certainly rather that than Armstrong on the wing which some have mooted. He ain’t turning into prime Beckham if you move him right when he cant kick a ball in the centre at times.

But I do see him in a two. Cause the carnage, let someone “pick up the empties”. Hell, the rebounds alone off his first touch would give his partner plenty of ball.

But it won’t happen - and here’s why:

LM has built a system that needs a “10”. He’s done it here and it was made for “Twiney” with the inconvenient truth that Bird is twice the player there. He did it at MK Dons. He did it at Oxford where Rodrigues was there. In order to play a 2 he needs to abandon his way of playing that he’s typically tried to play throughout his career. And if there’s one thing about Liam, it’s that the lady ain’t for turning.

(FWIW I’m not convinced we would be better with two up top. But I am convinced that both Mayulu and Armstrong are better in a two, which makes the recruitment all the more bizarre).

[Tomo]

From what I have seen so far (including preseason), Fally is not ready for championship football. It's as simple as that.

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, sephjnr said:

I say this with cynicism, but my guess is that he's anticipating either one of these or both being loaned out at some point.

 

Bloody hell, that would be very damming.

Although, Szmodics came here, loaned out in the first winter window following signing for us.  Just need to wait 3 years now for it to come off.

[GrahamC]

10 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I’d certainly rather that than Armstrong on the wing which some have mooted. He ain’t turning into prime Beckham if you move him right when he cant kick a ball in the centre at times.

But I do see him in a two. Cause the carnage, let someone “pick up the empties”. Hell, the rebounds alone off his first touch would give his partner plenty of ball.

But it won’t happen - and here’s why:

LM has built a system that needs a “10”. He’s done it here and it was made for “Twiney” with the inconvenient truth that Bird is twice the player there. He did it at MK Dons. He did it at Oxford where Rodrigues was there. In order to play a 2 he needs to abandon his way of playing that he’s typically tried to play throughout his career. And if there’s one thing about Liam, it’s that the lady ain’t for turning.

(FWIW I’m not convinced we would be better with two up top. But I am convinced that both Mayulu and Armstrong are better in a two, which makes the recruitment all the more bizarre).

Personally I’d rather see Armstrong sat in the stand.

Too early in his career in England to do so consistently yet but I could definitely see Fally as the lone striker at some point, he’s mobile (though nowhere near as quick as SA), tall, has a decent technique & his two goals so far were finishes of real quality.

I wouldn’t mind seeing him start a game or two instead of Nahki who is a decent sub option & felt against Millwall he linked up very well with Bird.

[1960maaan]

15 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Hell, the rebounds alone off his first touch would give his partner plenty of ball.

But it won’t happen - and here’s why:

LM has built a system that needs a “10”. He’s done it here and it was made for “Twiney” with the inconvenient truth that Bird is twice the player there. He did it at MK Dons. He did it at Oxford where Rodrigues was there. In order to play a 2 he needs to abandon his way of playing that he’s typically tried to play throughout his career. And if there’s one thing about Liam, it’s that the lady ain’t for turning.

(FWIW I’m not convinced we would be better with two up top. But I am convinced that both Mayulu and Armstrong are better in a two, which makes the recruitment all the more bizarre).

There are ways of course. A 4-3-2-1 or sort of diamond 

        McGuane 
Knight ....... Bird
          Twine
Mayulu -- Armstrong

I don't think we will see it any time soon , but possible in theory.

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

10 hours ago, BeggyBlaggers said:

Tinnion couldnt even spell playoff push

Playdoh punt.

[BeggyBlaggers]

10 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

There are ways of course. A 4-3-2-1 or sort of diamond 

        McGuane 
Knight ....... Bird
          Twine
Mayulu -- Armstrong

I don't think we will see it any time soon , but possible in theory.

A game like saturday would be the time to try it....especially if for any reason we find ourselves 3 nil up by half time

[1960maaan]

3 minutes ago, BeggyBlaggers said:

A game like saturday would be the time to try it....especially if for any reason we find ourselves 3 nil up by half time

I was thinking that.

Against a team that has been shipping goals and the manager has ripped them a new one, while threatening to play the kids.
It feels like they may try and be more solid, looking at it simply . So it looks a good time in theory , try and pin them in early. We know it's not that straight forward, but I can't think of a better time. 
One main problem being, Manning looks wedded to one up top .

[W-S-M Seagull]

14 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

First off - he’s fully embracing the rugged look!

 

Notes

- Frustrated with one point return from last two. Thought finished game well against Burnley and deserved a point. Excellent Tuesday bar the finish, asked a lot of questions, played on front foot but didn’t create good goalscoring opportunities or lacked “detail” when we did get in position

- Lack of goals not a concern but more of a frustration - have two teams on the pitch, got in really good positions against Burnley

- Asked whether FM/SA were “championship ready”. Said that he said from day one they weren’t ready to do a 45-46 game season, not a great deal of goalscorers out there. (Shoehorned in a reference to “Twineys” effort!)

- Not creating enough chances off some good deliveries from set pieces and the whole team need to deliver goals

- Asked about January window and whether we’d look for a striker if goalscoring issues persist. Non commital on that one, stated it was always ongoing.

- Asked about Cornick. LM commended him as a role model and the career to date, stated he spoke to him in the summer and said minutes would be limited but HC decided to stay. HC is an option and not ruled out.

- Injuries. Everyone came through Tuesday and no new knocks. Sam Bell is not far away. Kal, McCrorie and Sykes are on the grass and should be in team training soon. Josh Stokes is back with Cambridge, LM thought he was excellent in the U21s. Rob Atkinson needed minutes so chose to put match minutes in him on Monday.

- Thinks Vyner had really progressed, saw him when Oxford played us and thinks he’s got more consistent

- Asked about Roberts RWB. @Davefevs - at this point the “tell” was pronounced! Stated that he thinks it worked being a 5 both first and second half, HR has played there before and prefers him on the left but would be happy to do it again.

- We need to shift away from entitlement to win at home. Last season we weren’t great at home (referenced Swansea) and the level has gone up but we need to learn how to win, and LM believes we’re close

Overall - a lot to agree with there in terms of how we’ve played. I’d disagree we merited a point against Burnley and us getting into areas was “allowed”. We won’t see Cornick from his manner on answering that question and I don’t think from his “tell” he was happy with the Roberts experiment or our current front options. Interesting to also note he’s comfortable enough to reference poor performance last season and it has improved.

Huh? Can't it be both a concern and a frustration? 

Edited Friday at 08:48 by W-S-M Seagull

[KegCity]

11 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Huh? Can't it be both a concern and a frustration? 

It can be, but clearly for Manning it isn't.

[Silvio Dante]

10 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Huh? Can't it be both a concern and a frustration? 

It can, but to avoid jumping on Liam, what I think he means (totally reasonably) is that he’s not concerned about the lack of goals because we’re, in his opinion, getting in enough of a position/doing enough that it should naturally follow (trust the process etc), and he’s more frustrated that although we’re doing 90% of what he needs us to and following the correct process, it’s not yielding the goals.

It’s a nuance of language rather than something to bash him on the head with. Debate/discuss if he’s right.

[Bazooka Joe]

11 hours ago, Ian M said:

Does anything about this club scream playoff push?

The inside of Tinnion’s head.

”Space to let”

[Bazooka Joe]

  1 hour ago,  BeggyBlaggers said:
One main problem being, Manning looks wedded to one up top .

 

That crop looks shorter than a #1 !

 

Edited Friday at 09:33 by Bazooka Joe

[mattjb]

Liam needs to get a proper head shaver and ‘take it back to the wood’ , no point in doing half a job! 
A bloke in work was trying to hang on to his hair and I said ‘I think it’s time to shave it off mate’ . He said ‘it's too cold at the moment for that ‘ . One of the other blokes said ‘ mate , keeping that is like insulating half of your loft , ******* waste of time’! 

[fly in the air]

I think this is a much win game. if we struggle the fans could turn. the pressure will be on tinnion and Manning. especially with steve lansdowns favourite out of work. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I think Oxford was must win for a few reasons, Cardiff less so but some pressure.

Think the Club will internally be not too unhappy plus t9 sack after our biggest spend since pre Covid would be somewhat embarrassing tbh so..big attendance Saturday however.

Wouldn't mind at all Tinnion being redeployed to a position more fitting of his talents.

[Sir Geoff]

49 minutes ago, mattjb said:

Liam needs to get a proper head shaver and ‘take it back to the wood’ , no point in doing half a job! 
A bloke in work was trying to hang on to his hair and I said ‘I think it’s time to shave it off mate’ . He said ‘it's too cold at the moment for that ‘ . One of the other blokes said ‘ mate , keeping that is like insulating half of your loft , ******* waste of time’! 

Careful with banter like that at work you'll have the Rozers knocking on the door waving a NCHI form at you.

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

There are ways of course. A 4-3-2-1 or sort of diamond 

        McGuane 
Knight ....... Bird
          Twine
Mayulu -- Armstrong

I don't think we will see it any time soon , but possible in theory.

That could work..but it rather negates the 4 wingers/wider playeds that we have and suddenly renders them redundant.

If it is a switch or a Plan B yeah could certainly be interesting and 2 of said players are injured (Sykes and Bell) but that would be quite the pivot medium term (Sykes, Yu, Mehmeti and Bell).

[1960maaan]

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That could work..but it rather negates the 4 wingers/wider playeds that we have and suddenly renders them redundant.

If it is a switch or a Plan B yeah could certainly be interesting and 2 of said players are injured (Sykes and Bell) but that would be quite the pivot medium term (Sykes, Yu, Mehmeti and Bell).

It's just thinking out loud because he certainly seems to have gone "all in" on the ( sort of) 3 behind a lone striker. 
That said, systems, plans and ideas change and it doesn't pay to be too rigid. Something i think Manning has realised in his reasonably short time here already. 
I still think it unlikely  , but something I would quite like to see. Even if it fails, at least you know and SA & FM look like they may be better in a 2.

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

It's just thinking out loud because he certainly seems to have gone "all in" on the ( sort of) 3 behind a lone striker. 
That said, systems, plans and ideas change and it doesn't pay to be too rigid. Something i think Manning has realised in his reasonably short time here already. 
I still think it unlikely  , but something I would quite like to see. Even if it fails, at least you know and SA & FM look like they may be better in a 2.

Twine in that particular role and the 3 behind would at least keep us nice and solid centrally, could be worth a go.

Feels like the strategic plan even if some were food players has been less certain though, less clearcut by the hierarchy. Given that Bird has probably outperformed Twine so far in that role..it leaves a dilemma.

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Twine in that particular role and the 3 behind would at least keep us nice and solid centrally, could be worth a go.

Feels like the strategic plan even if some were food players has been less certain though, less clearcut by the hierarchy. Given that Bird has probably outperformed Twine so far in that role..it leaves a dilemma.

Like many Managers, he seems to want to fit players in , whether they actually fit or not.

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Like many Managers, he seems to want to fit players in , whether they actually fit or not.

That toddler certainly “problem-solves”!

[Glen hump]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think Oxford was must win for a few reasons, Cardiff less so but some pressure.

Think the Club will internally be not too unhappy plus t9 sack after our biggest spend since pre Covid would be somewhat embarrassing tbh so..big attendance Saturday however.

Wouldn't mind at all Tinnion being redeployed to a position more fitting of his talents.

Pretty sure we’ve already got someone who cleans the dressing rooms 

[Robbored]

I reckon Manning try something different and liven up the strikers by starting Cornick or Fally as the lone striker. Wells and Armstrong on the bench.

 

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think Oxford was must win for a few reasons, Cardiff less so but some pressure.

Think the Club will internally be not too unhappy plus t9 sack after our biggest spend since pre Covid would be somewhat embarrassing tbh so..big attendance Saturday however.

Wouldn't mind at all Tinnion being redeployed to a position more fitting of his talents.

Cardiff was must win after those performances prior.

I think Manning was only saved from immense pressure because of what happened (and rightly so, don’t get me wrong).

The performances improved dramatically afterwards, and results so that pressure subsided.

Tomorrow isn’t must win, but we really should be winning the next 2

[mozo]

17 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve now watched and listened.

Nor am I (Graham and Silvio).

With a one striker system, the expectation was that Armstrong and Mayulu would share the 46-game donkey-work.  Assuming he stuck with a one-striker system, and their fitness prevailed, he would’ve expected 85-90% of minutes to have come from them.  Wells was his 10-15% man, topping up his own contribution with minutes when Manning needed to go two up top, or might want to play a secondary striker instead of a 10.

In 17 league games there was no way he expected Fally to have played just 232 mins and be an unused sub 6 times.

Nor did he say anything of the sort, as per his interview “I was clear before the season started…”.

Mayulu: 15.2% of 1530 mins

Armstrong: 45.0% of 1530 mins

Wells: 43.4% of 1530 mins

The two new signings have covered 60.2% on mins.

 

 

As you can see Nahki has started the last 8 games.  Just 54 mins have been played with 2 of the 3 on the pitch together.  Even for Nahki, 8 starts on the spin was not the script.

Their minutes split are largely down to how they’ve (under)performed, not as per a planned usage pre-season.

He’s “having one”!!!

I’m not having it!

edit; I forgot to add, all Nahki’s pre-season minutes were as a SS/10, sharing minutes with Josh Stokes, whilst we waited for Twine to arrive.

Exactly!

What Manning said was exactly right in my opinion; Armstrong was playing well for 5/6 games, when his form fell off, he was replaced. That's exactly how a meritocracy works. 

Has Armstrong shown his best game when he came on as a sub recently? Nope. So should he start over Wells? Nope. 

If they win their place back - on merit - and the %s you're quoting will change.

[Davefevs]

59 minutes ago, mozo said:

What Manning said was exactly right in my opinion; Armstrong was playing well for 5/6 games, when his form fell off, he was replaced. That's exactly how a meritocracy works. 

Has Armstrong shown his best game when he came on as a sub recently? Nope. So should he start over Wells? Nope. 

If they win their place back - on merit - and the %s you're quoting will change.

Wrong argument.

Right argument is….its not what he said in the summer.  He has revised history to suit the current situation.  That’s the bit I’m not having.  Yes?

=====

FWIW, I have no issues who he plays (generally - see below), he can play Big Rob up top for all I care, or even Stefan if he likes.  Short term, from a football perspective, if Nahki does the biz for the team, I couldn’t give a flying ****.

My only longer term issue / consideration is whether we end up pissing £3.000m (plus wages) up the wall, before we poorly judge current and future ability of new prospective new signings.  Yes?

I cannot conclude that at this point…and I actually think both have showed they have capability at this level.  Others disagree.

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

My only longer term issue / consideration is whether we end up pissing £3.000m (plus wages) up the wall, before we poorly judge current and future ability of new prospective new signings.  Yes?

This question is still open.

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I actually think both have showed they have capability at this level.

This , even in short spells , has been proven to be true.

FWIW I like both and have seen things that suggest they could both do a good job . 
Armstrong's pace and power can scare CBs to death, needs polishing.
Mayulu looks like he has touch and can finish , but it's a very different League to what he's played in, needs time & games.

The elephant in the room is, how do these ( promising )signings fit with the rhetoric coming from the Club when Pearson was sacked and at the start of this season. 

We were supposed to be pushing top 6 , not hoping to push top 6. 

 

Edited Friday at 15:26 by 1960maaan

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

The elephant in the room is, how do these ( promising )signings fit with the rhetoric coming from the Club when Pearson was sacked and at the start of this season. 

We were supposed to be pushing top 6 , not hoping to push top 6. 

The bit I didn’t go into above, is what you’ve added.

If you’re 6th or 7th you get less critique than when you’re 10th-12th.

An in-form Nahki has us 10th-12th.  We have to wait and see whether he dries up, or Armstrong or Mayulu take back the shirt.  But ultimately we are judging their outcomes in the team and the team’s performance.

From a team point of view I’m happy to let the team sample size grow, I think we are playing a bit better of late.  Then I can focus on bang for buck on individual players.

[LondonBristolian]

In terms of Fally, I don't think it's a massive issue in itself that a 22 year old who has two full seasons overseas in a lower-ranked division abroad isn't immediately ready for first team football. And in terms of Armstrong, I think he's pretty much what I expected, in terms of being a physical presence who can bring others into play but isn't going to be the main source of goals in a team.

The question for me isn't so much the ability or potential of the players themselves but the fact we scouted strikers last January, held off to the summer and ended up splurging the budget on two players who weren't quite ready to be what we needed. I know Palmer Houlden hasn't pulled up trees in Dundee but I'd argue he's closer to the type of player we need and that it might have been better to keep him instead of at least one of the signings. I actually feel a bit sorry for Armstrong in that I think a lot of the criticism he gets is because he is exactly the player that he is and - whilst I actually think he'd be an effective Championship performer in the right system with the right players around him - I don't think he's actually the player we needed. In a weird way, he reminds me of Marley Watkins (without the manager-infuriating antics) in terms of being a reasonable but not outstanding signing who could fit effectively into a team but who has signed for a club who weren't looking for that type of player in the first place. 

Edited Friday at 16:06 by LondonBristolian

[Silvio Dante]

4 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

The question for me isn't so much the ability or potential of the players themselves but the fact we scouted strikers last January, held off to the summer and ended up splurging the budget on two players who weren't quite ready to be what we needed. 

Pretty much bang on (and obligatory mention here that the budget was what it was overall and the strikers weren’t our biggest outlay). 
 

The thing is here that I think we all agree that neither SA or FM look ready to carry the attack, or may not necessarily be suited to how we play overall (the one up top) - the question you have here is whether that’s a function of they’re the best we could get with the budget once we’d decided to apportion it elsewhere (ie maybe we thought we could mould them into the roles).

Its one of the reasons why I hold no truck with the argument (and acknowledging we have played better recently) that Liam holds no responsibility for what he’s been given and is working effectively under “constraints”. It’s been an active choice to recruit the squad we have by all parties, and if Liam is trying to turn lead into gold, then that’s as much on him as it is on Brian as he’s been actively involved in the strategy and recruiting the (currently) sub optimum forward options.

 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

and ended up splurging the budget on two players who weren't quite ready to be what we needed

But were deemed to be / believed to be ready…100% so in Armstrong’s case.

6 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

whilst I actually think he'd be an effective Championship performer in the right system with the right players around him - I don't think he's actually the player we needed.

And you come back to “do they fit the system”, more than “are they good enough”.

They were obviously recruited on the belief they could / would.

So, as it stands is it poor recruitment (in assimilating the current and / or potential ability) or poor recruitment (in finding the right players for the system)?

I know it’s not as black and white as that, though.

I hope they both come good.

I think Manning needs to be ruthless with team selection over the next few weeks, now he has a strong squad available.  Much as I’d like to see “Fally given a go for his confidence”, I just want Manning to pick the best team to win the game.  I think he does that it the main.

[marmite]

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

I reckon Manning try something different and liven up the strikers by starting Cornick or Fally as the lone striker. Wells and Armstrong on the bench.

 

That I would love to see Robbo but if Cornick scores a couple and we win, the clowns would have even more egg on their faces as they wanted him gone!