Christmas Comes Again for Mr P

[Silvio Dante]

@Mr Popodopolous fill your boots!

 

[Jose]

Good work Nige and Co. Massively got the budget down while remaining competitive. I’m guessing sales helped massively with this?

[Silvio Dante]

1 minute ago, Jose said:

Good work Nige and Co. Massively got the budget down while remaining competitive. I’m guessing sales helped massively with this?

Yep.

 

[Olé]

Cut to the chase: 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Well done the Club, getting them out by January!

£0-5m Loss was my Forecast, fell within this.

[Jerseybean]

Full accounts: https://www.yumpu.com/xx/document/read/69521527/2024-bchl-signed-accounts

 

[ExiledAjax]

Interesting. I was expecting a slightly smaller loss, but £3.3m is workable. £1m less on (total) wages for the group as well (although that is probably the 13/12 month differential).

Some devil will be in the detail, but it's decent.

Continues to demonstrate that we, like many, are ultimately a selling club. Utterly reliant on regular high value sales.

Edited December 30, 2024 by ExiledAjax

[Mr Popodopolous]

I'm surprised at the Wage Bill.

Probably a few possible factors but...

1) More expenditure for the Ladies Team post Promotion, any ideas?

2) Change of Managerial Team although NP and his Assistants only were contracted until Summer 2024? Unless some were longer- compensation to Oxford as well for Manning and Hogg.

3) Change of CEO- what kinda contract and length was Alexander on?

4) More events can mean more Costs and Security Agency Fees are always more expensive than in-house Part Time. Always.

No (unless I missed them) Post Balance Sheet Events listed which is slightly unusual.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Mr Popodopolous

[Olé]

I'd like to know who didn't pay us £275k! 

[Mendip City]

8 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Interesting. I was expecting a slightly smaller loss, but £3.3m is workable. £1m less on (total) wages for the group as well.

Some devil will be in the detail, but it's decent.

Continues to demonstrate that we, like many, are ultimately a selling club. Utterly reliant on regular high value sales.

And also shows the importance of signing the right players at the right price…. Right now it looks as though £4m+ on Armstrong and Mayulu is dead money and is more money than we can afford to take punts on. They’ve neutralised the Conway money. I wonder whether their combined salary would have been enough to persuade TC to stay…

Edited December 30, 2024 by Mendip City

[Mr Popodopolous]

You can do something called Provision for Onerous Contracts, I'm surprised we have seen the need to utilise this at times.

[cidercity1987]

How does our turnover excluding player sales compare to the rest of the league? I think @Davefevsposted something recently but did that exclude transfers?

I am very interested to know as £42m seems decent 

[TammyAB]

11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm surprised at the Wage Bill.

Probably a few possible factors but...

1) More expenditure for the Ladies Team post Promotion, any ideas?

2) Change of Managerial Team although NP and his Assistants only were contracted until Summer 2024? Unless some were longer- compensation to Oxford as well for Manning and Hogg.

3) Change of CEO- what kinda contract and length was Alexander on?

4) More events can mean more Costs and Security Agency Fees are always more expensive than in-house Part Time. Always.

No (unless I missed them) Post Balance Sheet Events listed which is slightly unusual.

Wait what does the women’s team affect our FFP?

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, TammyAB said:

Wait what does the women’s team affect our FFP?

It sits under Bristol City FC Limited which in turn sits under Bristol City Holdings alongside Ashton Gate Limited.

However the Cost is excluded from FFP so it could add to our Allowables if it has increased.

14 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

How does our turnover excluding player sales compare to the rest of the league? I think @Davefevsposted something recently but did that exclude transfers?

I am very interested to know as £42m seems decent 

Parachute Clubs aside, we'll be right up there as we were in 2022-23. In fact we were the top Non Parachute Club and it would be a Record Turnover for us then and now.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Mr Popodopolous

[Kid in the Riot]

12 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

How does our turnover excluding player sales compare to the rest of the league? I think @Davefevsposted something recently but did that exclude transfers?

I am very interested to know as £42m seems decent 

It's outstanding to be fair. I'm sure we're top 3 or 4 in the Championship usually. 

[ExiledAjax]

46 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

And also shows the importance of signing the right players at the right price…. Right now it looks as though £4m+ on Armstrong and Mayulu is dead money and is more money than we can afford to take punts on. They’ve neutralised the Conway money. 

I'm generally relaxed about that tbh. The big money, and big profit is more reliably realised through academy/pseudo-academy graduates. Bar Webster, and to an extent Brownhill, it's those guys who are keeping us going.

I'd worry more about what we might sell Bell, Max, Vyner, Morrison etc for rather than Mayulu and Armstrong. Sales there are going to be hampered by things like sell ons due to their old clubs, it's never going to be as profitable unless the player is one in a million and we time it perfectly - as happened with Webster.

Edited December 30, 2024 by ExiledAjax

[Mr Popodopolous]

A few bits actually.

Bit of a puzzle for me the size of the Wage Bill. Remember the prior Period was 13 months.

It does seem we are planning for both the present and the new mooted Financial Rules simultaneously.

I'm glad it mentions the Pathway..."A clear talent pathway needs to be viable as if provides experience to the younger players that their hard work will be rewarded with first team exposure".

That is crystal clear. There will be an expectation of further integration in the medium term?

Edited December 30, 2024 by Mr Popodopolous

[GrahamC]

Presumably the Semenyo sale is also taken into account here?

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Presumably the Semenyo sale is also taken into account here?

Semenyo sale was 2022-23, Scott mainly this time- perhaps a bit is compensation for Massengo too and one or two small other bits.

If any Performance Related Add-ons for Semenyo arose last season that could also be a bit of the Profit on Disposal.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Mr Popodopolous

[Olé]

13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Bit of a puzzle for me the size of the Wage Bill. Remember the prior Period was 13 months

Like for like / real terms increase in the wage bill was called out in their press release as not down to playing budget - it's having to absorb the cost of paying down NP and team, alongside the cost of the new management team. Although even that seems unusual as it's about £2m up on a like for like basis @ 12 months, and NP had less than a year left??? And it's not the compensation to Oxford for LM as the article goes on to say that was booked in opex.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, Olé said:

Like for like / real terms increase in the wage bill was called out in their press release as not down to playing budget - it's having to absorb the cost of paying down NP and team, alongside the cost of the new management team. Although even that seems unusual as it's about £2m up on a like for like basis @ 12 months, and NP had less than a year left??? And it's not the compensation to Oxford for LM as the article goes on to say that was booked in opex.

Thanks.

That seems fairly unusual given that they had 6 months or so left, each I assume? Assume some weren't longer than others.

By Management Team maybe it also means Alexander or..how would his departure be accounted for.

They've not netted out e.g. Termination Costs separately which they can do...

Edited December 30, 2024 by Mr Popodopolous

[Natchfever]

48 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

You can do something called Provision for Onerous Contracts, I'm surprised we have seen the need to utilise this at times.

You could certainly do that with surplus leasehold properties and associated costs when downsizing.

I only handled property but I guess severance costs could be treated the same but not sure if that applies should the outgoing management team was replaced by another version.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

You could certainly do that with surplus leasehold properties and associated costs when downsizing.

I only handled property but I guess severance costs could be treated the same but not sure if that applies should the outgoing management team was replaced by another version.

Can be, depends IMO. Seen it with Other Clubs if e.g. Alexander had say 3 years left at £ and we paid it up in September 2023 it can be done to accelerate it into that year but included within the Wage Bill. I've literally no idea there. Seen it for Players too who are surplus.

The First Team Management stuff confuses me a bit because NP had 6 months left, if anyone knows about Fleming, Euell and Rennie please fill the gap- they can if they wish also put that in Costs of Termination as Exceptional as e.g. Everton among others do. However without it it's surely included in the Total Wage Bill.

[Natchfever]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Can be, depends IMO. Seen it with Other Clubs if e.g. Alexander had say 3 years left at £ and we paid it up in September 2023 it can be done to accelerate it into that year but included within the Wage Bill. I've literally no idea there. Seen it for Players too who are surplus.

The First Team Management stuff confuses me a bit because NP had 6 months left, if anyone knows about Fleming, Euell and Rennie please fill the gap- they can if they wish also put that in Costs of Termination as Exceptional as e.g. Everton among others do. However without it it's surely included in the Total Wage Bill.

Im no accountant Mr P but the provisions I built up took those costs off balance sheet as I recall, but im talking 20 years ago (FRS12 then)

If available, then pretty wise to use I guess.

[Oizys]

1 hour ago, Mendip City said:

And also shows the importance of signing the right players at the right price…. Right now it looks as though £4m+ on Armstrong and Mayulu is dead money and is more money than we can afford to take punts on. They’ve neutralised the Conway money. I wonder whether their combined salary would have been enough to persuade TC to stay…

He wouldn't have stayed.  Manning didn't play to his strengths (it could be argued that he doesn't know how to utilise strikers effectively given only Nahki seems to be any sort of success under him).  It will have stifled his progression to have stayed here.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

No (unless I missed them) Post Balance Sheet Events listed which is slightly unusual.

Will probably be in the BCFC accounts when they come out

[cidercity1987]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It sits under Bristol City FC Limited which in turn sits under Bristol City Holdings alongside Ashton Gate Limited.

However the Cost is excluded from FFP so it could add to our Allowables if it has increased.

Parachute Clubs aside, we'll be right up there as we were in 2022-23. In fact we were the top Non Parachute Club and it would be a Record Turnover for us then and now.

 

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It's outstanding to be fair. I'm sure we're top 3 or 4 in the Championship usually. 

Opens the questions of what are we doing pissing around in the middle of league against these other clubs that are apparently bigger cos they won something in 1930 or other, but clearly aren't if their income is less?

[Davefevs]

Maybe that NDA had a £££sign attached too!

Anyone any idea how to convert the yumpu doc into a pdf?  Ta.

edit: ignore - Google “convert yumpu to pdf”….lazy me!

Edited December 30, 2024 by Davefevs

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

 

Opens the questions of what are we doing pissing around in the middle of league against these other clubs that are apparently bigger cos they won something in 1930 or other, but clearly aren't if their income is less?

Well our Costs ran out of control majorly and we had to retrench and rebuild for 2 Years and well even the 3rd Year if not for the sale of Scott and a Record we lose North of £20m.

Closer to £25m than £20m.

[Mendip City]

41 minutes ago, Oizys said:

He wouldn't have stayed.  Manning didn't play to his strengths (it could be argued that he doesn't know how to utilise strikers effectively given only Nahki seems to be any sort of success under him).  It will have stifled his progression to have stayed here.

Yeah my point though is that we could have had a known quantity, proving himself at this level for the same or less than the two punts who are, so far, failing. 
 

The point about a head coach not willing to flex, to get the best out of the players at his disposal is a good but separate one. 

[Mendip City]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

I'm generally relaxed about that tbh. The big money, and big profit is more reliably realised through academy/pseudo-academy graduates. Bar Webster, and to an extent Brownhill, it's those guys who are keeping us going.

I'd worry more about what we might sell Bell, Max, Vyner, Morrison etc for rather than Mayulu and Armstrong. Sales there are going to be hampered by things like sell ons due to their old clubs, it's never going to be as profitable unless the player is one in a million and we time it perfectly - as happened with Webster.

I think you didn’t get the point or I wasn’t clear enough…  we sold/traded a home grown talent in TC but will see no benefit as the two replacements aren’t cutting it and it takes some creative thinking to see how we’d break even, let alone turn a profit on Fally Mayulu or Sinclair Armstrong. 
The talent coming through or currently here doesn’t seem to be in the bracket of Semenyo or Scott. We’re not getting a £10m+ bonus to balance the books, any time soon, so we need to be really smart in the transfer market. 

Edited December 30, 2024 by Mendip City

[Kid in the Riot]

33 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Opens the questions of what are we doing pissing around in the middle of league against these other clubs that are apparently bigger cos they won something in 1930 or other, but clearly aren't if their income is less?

At risk of sounding like a broken record that would be due to the Lansdowns. 

It's a bit like the Glazers at Man U, good at the commercial stuff, not so good at the football stuff.

[Harry]

Someone with more knowledge of this may be able to answer this, but I was always keen to see this years accounts in relation to the wage bill. 
 

We heard a lot over the last 3 years about how we were reducing the wage bill. 
 

2021 accounts said the wages were at an all time high of £35.3m. 
2022 we apparently reduced that to £30.3m. 
2023 they were up again to £35.9m (but people told me that this was due to the 13 month accounts and that we have actually reduced the wages).
2024 now says we’re at £34.9m. 
 

So we are basically only £400k lower than we were in 2021. 
 

So, where exactly did we reduce the wages?? I was always sceptical during the ‘lean years’ under Nige as to exactly how much we did actually reduce the wages. I always thought that we hadn’t reduced it much and that we’d just gone with a smaller squad so it gave the impression we were paying less (but that some of that smaller squad were actually pretty high earners).
But it seems from these figures that we haven’t reduced the wages at all in 4 years. 
 

Can anyone explain …… 

Edited December 30, 2024 by Harry

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

Someone with more knowledge of this may be able to answer this, but I was always keen to see this years accounts in relation to the wage bill. 
 

We heard a lot over the last 3 years about how we were reducing the wage bill. 
 

2021 accounts said the wages were at an all time high of £35.3m. 
2022 we apparently reduced that to £30.3m. 
2023 they were up again to £35.9m (but people told me that this was due to the 13 month accounts and that we have actually reduced the wages).
2024 now says we’re at £34.9m. 
 

So we are basically only £400k lower than we were in 2021. 
 

So, where exactly did we reduce the wages?? I was always sceptical during the ‘lean years’ under Nige as to exactly how much we did actually reduce the wages. I always thought that we hadn’t reduced it much and that we’d just gone with a smaller squad so it gave the impression we were paying less (but that some of that smaller squad were actually pretty high earners).
But it seems from these figures that we haven’t reduced the wages at all in 4 years. 
 

Can anyone explain …… 

Probably best to wait until we see the BCFC Ltd accounts.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

Someone with more knowledge of this may be able to answer this, but I was always keen to see this years accounts in relation to the wage bill. 
 

We heard a lot over the last 3 years about how we were reducing the wage bill. 
 

2021 accounts said the wages were at an all time high of £35.3m. 
2022 we apparently reduced that to £30.3m. 
2023 they were up again to £35.9m (but people told me that this was due to the 13 month accounts and that we have actually reduced the wages).
2024 now says we’re at £34.9m. 
 

So we are basically only £400k lower than we were in 2021. 
 

So, where exactly did we reduce the wages?? I was always sceptical during the ‘lean years’ under Nige as to exactly how much we did actually reduce the wages. I always thought that we hadn’t reduced it much and that we’d just gone with a smaller squad so it gave the impression we were paying less (but that some of that smaller squad were actually pretty high earners).
But it seems from these figures that we haven’t reduced the wages at all in 4 years. 
 

Can anyone explain …… 

I'll give it a go.

*The Ashton Gate Limited Wages will be undoubtedly higher than 2020-21. A lot more events, in fact there weren't any Events broadly speaking but there were still some Full Time Staff.

*The Women's Team will also probably be higher. That is included.

*The Total Wage Bill may or may not include Termination Costs for NP, Fleming, Euell and Rennie. A one-off unplanned cost..

*...In conjunction with cost of Manning, Hogg and Krause.

*Possibly even Alexander?

(Some Clubs list these specifically under varied cost categories).

*Twine and Mbeude Loan wages if applicable will be included however 6 months..who knows what we contributed. Idk say £12k and £6k per week respectively, if we released 6 Month Accounts that would be excellent but no obligation unless on a Stock Exchange.

What @Davefevs said too about BCFC Limited and AGL Limited being released individually.

[Harry]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Probably best to wait until we see the BCFC Ltd accounts.

Ah ok. So will they decipher the player wages more than the full ‘staff costs’ ?

I’m still convinced we didn’t cut wages by as much as people thought we did. Hence why I’ve always been adamant that the likes of Matty James were here on a fair bloody wedge, given the size of wage he was on previously. 

[Simon bristol]

8 minutes ago, Harry said:

Someone with more knowledge of this may be able to answer this, but I was always keen to see this years accounts in relation to the wage bill. 
 

We heard a lot over the last 3 years about how we were reducing the wage bill. 
 

2021 accounts said the wages were at an all time high of £35.3m. 
2022 we apparently reduced that to £30.3m. 
2023 they were up again to £35.9m (but people told me that this was due to the 13 month accounts and that we have actually reduced the wages. 
2024 now says we’re at £34.9m. 
 

So we are basically only £400k lower than we were in 2021. 
 

So, where exactly did we reduce the wages?? I was always sceptical during the ‘lean years’ under Nige as to exactly how much we did actually reduce the wages. I always thought that we hadn’t reduced it much and that we’d just gone with a smaller squad so it gave the impression we were paying less. But it seems from these figures that we haven’t reduced the wages at all in 4 years. 
 

Can anyone explain …… 

Well we know that we gradually moved kalas palmer and Dasilva, and agreed to reduce weimann and wells salaries, around that time,, im guessing that those are some of the biggest contracts weve ever offered? I can only guess what Naismith and cornick are on at the moment, and hopefully they will be off the books soon enough!

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Simon bristol said:

Well we know that we gradually moved kalas palmer and Dasilva, and agreed to reduce weimann and wells salaries, around that time,, im guessing that those are some of the biggest contracts weve ever offered? I can only guess what Naismith and cornick are on at the moment, and hopefully they will be off the books soon enough!

I reckon Cornick isn't on much more than £10k a week but I'm prepared to eat my words there.

Naismith came to us with a good reputation and frankly when fit is a valuable and versatile player but he would be I assume towards the higher end of our wage structure.

Anyway Mayulu fee, bang for buck..rather have Cornick anyday in recent weeks as a sub anyway.

[Olé]

4 minutes ago, Harry said:

So, where exactly did we reduce the wages??

For a real terms comparison of player wage bill you need to be able to strip out cost of non-playing workforce (will have grown in line with stadium revenue growth), one off events baked into an annual number (change of manager and payoff of prior manager), inflation / cost of living (£1 in 2020 is not £1 in 2024 so like for like number IS a saving) and probably most importantly, understand exposure to player wage costs in future years rather than what is booked in the year (i.e. by removing lots of longer term contracts, shortening new contracts, lowering the wage cap, re-structuring incentives etc, a club could be notionally said to have "reduced the wage bill" but more in terms of future exposure, not necessarily radically altering a 1 year like for like view. 

[Kid in the Riot]

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

I’m still convinced we didn’t cut wages by as much as people thought we did. Hence why I’ve always been adamant that the likes of Matty James were here on a fair bloody wedge, given the size of wage he was on previously. 

I said the same when last year's accounts were released....  

Most other clubs reduced their wage bills post-covid too, so when you add that context, we still had a very competitive top half wage bill under NP, and being blunt - he underperformed on league position against it. 

[Harry]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'll give it a go.

*The Ashton Gate Limited Wages will be undoubtedly higher than 2020-21. A lot more events, in fact there weren't any Events broadly speaking but there were still some Full Time Staff.

*The Women's Team will also probably be higher. That is included.

*The Total Wage Bill may or may not include Termination Costs for NP, Fleming, Euell and Rennie. A one-off unplanned cost..

*...In conjunction with cost of Manning, Hogg and Krause.

*Possibly even Alexander?

(Some Clubs list these specifically under varied cost categories).

*Twine and Mbeude Loan wages if applicable will be included however 6 months..who knows what we contributed. Idk say £12k and £6k per week respectively, if we released 6 Month Accounts that would be excellent but no obligation unless on a Stock Exchange.

What @Davefevs said too about BCFC Limited and AGL Limited being released individually.

A lot of those type of things are pretty much perennial though Pops. 
Paying off Nige and his staff with 6 months left. Won’t be much different to paying off Holden and his staff, LJ and his staff etc.

Re Alexander, he would have been on fraction of the wage Ashton was on. So that’s swings and roundabouts too. 
 

The women’s team would be a drop in the ocean. And we have a top tier team at times over the previous periods too so I doubt the overall wage spend on the women would be vastly different - certainly not enough to make any dent in the accounts. 
 

I just think we operated a smaller squad but they were on a bigger average wage and we didn’t really reduce as vastly as was being suggested

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

A lot of those type of things are pretty much perennial though Pops. 
Paying off Nige and his staff with 6 months left. Won’t be much different to paying off Holden and his staff, LJ and his staff etc.

Re Alexander, he would have been on fraction of the wage Ashton was on. So that’s swings and roundabouts too. 
 

The women’s team would be a drop in the ocean. And we have a top tier team at times over the previous periods too so I doubt the overall wage spend on the women would be vastly different - certainly not enough to make any dent in the accounts. 
 

I just think we operated a smaller squad but they were on a bigger average wage and we didn’t really reduce as vastly as was being suggested

The bcfc ltd wage Ill dropped £6m in first full year of NP!

[Harry]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

The bcfc ltd wage Ill dropped £6m in first full year of NP!

What were the numbers Dave, on 2020, 2021, 2022 & 2023. 
we then then have a look back here when the 24 accs are out 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Harry said:

A lot of those type of things are pretty much perennial though Pops. 
Paying off Nige and his staff with 6 months left. Won’t be much different to paying off Holden and his staff, LJ and his staff etc.

Re Alexander, he would have been on fraction of the wage Ashton was on. So that’s swings and roundabouts too. 
 

The women’s team would be a drop in the ocean. And we have a top tier team at times over the previous periods too so I doubt the overall wage spend on the women would be vastly different - certainly not enough to make any dent in the accounts. 
 

I just think we operated a smaller squad but they were on a bigger average wage and we didn’t really reduce as vastly as was being suggested

I'm reserving judgement until such time as the individual component parts are out, Harry.

I reckon £23-24m, maybe £23-25m and that will include the Ladies Team which was stated at almost £1m in 2022-23. Those Accounts are also individually stated as is AGL.

AGL was £9mish in 2022-23, albeit across 13 months.

We don't know what sort of payout they got as the Club don't list it unlike some.

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Harry said:

What were the numbers Dave, on 2020, 2021, 2022 & 2023. 
we then then have a look back here when the 24 accs are out 

 

Final year was 13 months.

21/22 was NP’s first year of owning the wage bill. Cleared £6.4m off it.

BCFC only above

Edited December 30, 2024 by Davefevs

[ZiderEyed]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Final year was 13 months.

21/22 was NP’s first year of owning the wage bill. Cleared £6.4m off it.

Makes you wonder just how much ‘disagreement’ between SL and co and NP occurred given the formers background!

[Harry]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Final year was 13 months.

21/22 was NP’s first year of owning the wage bill. Cleared £6.4m off it.

BCFC only above

Cheers Dave. I’ll await the further figures then before making any further assumptions. 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

Makes you wonder just how much ‘disagreement’ between SL and co and NP occurred given the formers background!

Financial performance was the reason was it?  Of course some will put it down to RG, but it’s NP that dealt with the brunt of a smaller / cheaper squad. 

[ExiledAjax]

I don't think you can operate a truly competitive Championship team for much less than £20m in wages per year anyway.

Say you've got 25 first team players on an average of £12.5k per week. That's £16.25m per year just on basic wages. 

An average contract might see a player then getting £1,000 per start, £500 for a sub, £2,000 for an international call up, plus a £50k lump loyalty payment each season if they stay with the club. Then there's position-specific bonuses like goals and clean sheets. 

So maybe an average of another £75k per player in bonuses? Another £1.9m in bonuses then.

This is fag packet stuff but it's based on championship player contracts I've seen over the past couple of seasons. 

A wage bill of less than £20m is going to be very hard to achieve it you want to be signing and retaining quality players.

[Oizys]

1 hour ago, Mendip City said:

Yeah my point though is that we could have had a known quantity, proving himself at this level for the same or less than the two punts who are, so far, failing. 
 

The point about a head coach not willing to flex, to get the best out of the players at his disposal is a good but separate one. 

It's not really a separate one though.

You wondered if we could've offered him enough to convince him to stay. I don't think we could have because his move wasn't financially motivated. In my opinion I don't think it would've mattered how much we offered him. 

Would've been lovely to have kept him. Like you say, he's a known quantity.

[Supersonic Robin]

2 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

 

Opens the questions of what are we doing pissing around in the middle of league against these other clubs that are apparently bigger cos they won something in 1930 or other, but clearly aren't if their income is less?

Nailed it. I've been banging this drum for a while.

There's no reason why we should be as "small" as many of our fans seems to think we are.

In many cases, other clubs are bigger than us because they've achieved something. It's not the case that they've achieved something because they're bigger than us.

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

 

Final year was 13 months.

21/22 was NP’s first year of owning the wage bill. Cleared £6.4m off it.

BCFC only above

Interesting. So about a 20% reduction? 

By 2023, nearly back up to 2019/20 level.

I'd still be interested to see the comparison to other C'ship clubs, as I'm sure post-covid every club was making substantial cuts to player spending due to the previous season's lost revenue. Guess Swiss Ramble will have one. That would give a better picture of whether Nige was working 'with one hand tied behind his back' (notwithstanding the fact he was working for the Lansdowns ) 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Hull had a Club Wage Bill of £29m for one so there's that.

I expect that Leeds, Leicester, Southampton as well as Norwich which we know, Watford in all likelihood will have exceeded us. West Brom too.

Also likely that any or all of Birmingham, Coventry, Ipswich, Middlesbrough and Stoke did.

Any others- Sunderland maybe?

[redkev]

Fair play to the posters who understand and analyse all this type of thing and understand it

But for me

WHHHHHOOOOOSSSHHH , straight over my head 

Edited December 30, 2024 by redkev

[ExiledAjax]

Tell you what lads. We won't be reading a sentence like this next Christmas:

"The total revenue earned from ticketing in the 2023/24 season increased by 23 per cent on the prior year to £7.7m, as the club benefitted from strong season ticket sales and two sold-out home FA Cup fixtures against West Ham United and Nottingham Forest."

Although we'll get something about £2m for the new TV Deal.

So if we match 2022/23's £6.3m then we will be £0.5m up. Is that worth it?

No pressure on the Wolves game either...

Edited December 30, 2024 by ExiledAjax

[ashton_fan]

2 hours ago, Mendip City said:

I think you didn’t get the point or I wasn’t clear enough…  we sold/traded a home grown talent in TC but will see no benefit as the two replacements aren’t cutting it and it takes some creative thinking to see how we’d break even, let alone turn a profit on Fally Mayulu or Sinclair Armstrong. 
The talent coming through or currently here doesn’t seem to be in the bracket of Semenyo or Scott. We’re not getting a £10m+ bonus to balance the books, any time soon, so we need to be really smart in the transfer market. 

Mehmeti's scored the same number of goals as TC this season

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Interesting. So about a 20% reduction? 

By 2023, nearly back up to 2019/20 level.

I'd still be interested to see the comparison to other C'ship clubs, as I'm sure post-covid every club was making substantial cuts to player spending due to the previous season's lost revenue. Guess Swiss Ramble will have one. That would give a better picture of whether Nige was working 'with one hand tied behind his back' (notwithstanding the fact he was working for the Lansdowns ) 

The 2023 accounts were 13 months, not 12, so as a “quick n dirty” that £26m is more like £24m.  In fact, it’s likely that the extra June meant extra wage costs incurred (versus the old May to May) for things like annual contracts bonuses, ie we’d have paid two lots in 2023’s accounts.  I hope that makes sense?

re comparison, I have all wage bills for every club that’s been in the championdhip over the last 4 years…but of course we don’t know how much is playing staff.  Give me 5 mins and I’ll cut the data.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Davefevs

[Davefevs]

[exAtyeoMax]

 

 

[Kid in the Riot]

Total losses over the years £224m

Total Steve Lansdown investment £282.4m

Most underachieving owner in English football.

That £282.4m has bought him 7 seasons in League One and 15 seasons in the Championship.

Forbes now value his net worth at £2bn.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Kid in the Riot

[Bs4Red]

 

Unsure if this has been posted but a very interesting read. 
Wages down 3%
Average wage of £16K+

I believe this is for the previous year but anyone else who knows a bit better may be able to summarise 
 

Edited December 30, 2024 by Bs4Red

[O'Garlandinho]

1 hour ago, exAtyeoMax said:

 

 

Any idea what commercial revenue consists of ? Concerts and other stadium events? As that seems to be the big driver in revenue growth. 
 

Can’t believe we only cleared £6m revenue 10 years ago!

[exAtyeoMax]

Just now, O'Garlandinho said:

Any idea what commercial revenue consists of ? Concerts and other stadium events? As that seems to be the big driver in revenue growth. 
 

Can’t believe we only cleared £6m revenue 10 years ago!

I would think concerts and conventions, conferences etc

[Kid in the Riot]

7 minutes ago, O'Garlandinho said:

Any idea what commercial revenue consists of ? Concerts and other stadium events? As that seems to be the big driver in revenue growth. 

Can’t believe we only cleared £6m revenue 10 years ago!

 

5 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I would think concerts and conventions, conferences etc

Yeah,all that sort of stuff. Every week the stadium is holding big corporate events. 

I wonder if the club will be able to tap into revenue generated by the Sporting Quarter, as that will be another huge money spinner, with events happening all year round. 

[exAtyeoMax]

3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

 

Yeah,all that sort of stuff. Every week the stadium is holding big corporate events. 

I wonder if the club will be able to tap into revenue generated by the Sporting Quarter, as that will be another huge money spinner, with events happening all year round. 

I would like to think so, Bristol doesn't have much of decent venues like that 

[Mr Popodopolous]

20 minutes ago, O'Garlandinho said:

Any idea what commercial revenue consists of ? Concerts and other stadium events? As that seems to be the big driver in revenue growth. 
 

Can’t believe we only cleared £6m revenue 10 years ago!

As per the Accounts. That won't be solely the Concerts, will include Sponsorship and Matchday Commercial Revenue too.

A good chunk of that last bit will be Concerts, Trade Shows etc.

[Barrs Court Red]

18 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

 

Yeah,all that sort of stuff. Every week the stadium is holding big corporate events. 

I wonder if the club will be able to tap into revenue generated by the Sporting Quarter, as that will be another huge money spinner, with events happening all year round. 

Which was always the point.  An asset that can deliver revenue on non matchdays, which it’s has delivered on.  They’ve done very well. 

[Simon bristol]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The 2023 accounts were 13 months, not 12, so as a “quick n dirty” that £26m is more like £24m.  In fact, it’s likely that the extra June meant extra wage costs incurred (versus the old May to May) for things like annual contracts bonuses, ie we’d have paid two lots in 2023’s accounts.  I hope that makes sense?

re comparison, I have all wage bills for every club that’s been in the championdhip over the last 4 years…but of course we don’t know how much is playing staff.  Give me 5 mins and I’ll cut the data.

Can you apply a round percentage for non playing staff as a percentage of the total salary bill? 10 percent or something? (Or maybe its much higher and im way off?!)

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

Which was always the point.  An asset that can deliver revenue on non matchdays, which it’s has delivered on.  They’ve done very well. 

Yep, it is a key part of underpinning why we have one of the top, if not the top Non Parachute Revenue in the League.

[Davefevs]

49 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Average wage of £16K+

Kieran uses a formula to work it out.  I doubt think it works well on our Holding accounts and probably best applied when the football accounts come out!