HOW EMBARASSING?

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, RedGrucky said:

Agree re: Semenyo and Bobby - it's 2025 after all! But I do think you pick up nuggets about views on current development, coaching and man management etc when you hear from players directly. If we're being agnostic and you believe there's no way of knowing what impact a coach has, I'd expect to read "Mehmeti has improved incredibly" - rather than "He's getting incredible improvement from Mehmeti". But either way, it's nice to see a player in form.

I was the one who posted about his interview.  It followed Manning’s interview where he’d also been asked about Anis.  The answers each gave were different!  Anis is all about belief.  He believes he’s good enough, has been good enough, but hasn’t had a run of games.

[RedGrucky]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I was the one who posted about his interview.  It followed Manning’s interview where he’d also been asked about Anis.  The answers each gave were different!  Anis is all about belief.  He believes he’s good enough, has been good enough, but hasn’t had a run of games.

Thank you, I was being lazy not looking up who posted it, but the same thing struck me too about those interviews!

[mozo]

14 minutes ago, RedGrucky said:

Agree re: Semenyo and Bobby - it's 2025 after all! But I do think you pick up nuggets about views on current development, coaching and man management etc when you hear from players directly. If we're being agnostic and you believe there's no way of knowing what impact a coach has, I'd expect to read "Mehmeti has improved incredibly" - rather than "He's getting incredible improvement from Mehmeti". But either way, it's nice to see a player in form.

Yeah, that's fair, but then this relates back to an equally dubious comment that Manning doesn't get the best out of his players, which in this case 'he' does (or doesn't!)

[Gert Mare]

It’s a marathon, not a sprint. 

Right now we’re pushing for where those upstairs want us to be, but let’s not forget that our run of fixtures over the Christmas period were kind to us.

We’ve got a lot of tough fixtures coming up and Portsmouth aside we just aren’t clinical enough.

What was encouraging for me yesterday was our game management towards the end. We slowed it down and killed it. I wish we had done similar in some of the other games we played this season and we would have been watching a team inside of the playoffs as opposed to outside.

10 points from 12 is good for confidence and that will help, but a crushing defeat to a side near the top end of the table could easily derail the momentum.

If we can manage games out like we did yesterday then a top 10 finish isn’t out of our reach.

Let’s not get too carried away just yet. Let’s see where we are when we need to compare ourselves against other in form teams.

My prediction is that we’ll finish the season somewhere between 12th-15th.

[Dastardly and Muttley]

1 hour ago, 2015 said:

I still have the same concerns as I did post-WBA. We've seen too often that this side has it in them to pull a duffer performance away from home and get slapped 2 or 3-0. We've also dropped roughly 11 points from winning positions in the final 5 minutes this season. 

The massive positive this season is the fact we now regularly win home matches, which we hadn't been able to do for years. Liam has managed to sort this out since coming in, to be fair to him.

I think we're close to the playoffs. We're just not quite good enough and where we end up which I think will be roughly 10th sums up where this City side are currently.

Striker needed this month, or next Summer if we really want to push on. 

Would like a good FA cup run to make things more interesting.
I will also add that I do feel sorry for Liam. I do think he has been under more pressure because the general feeling towards BT, JL and SL has been negative for quite some time and he has took the brunt of their bad optics in the media and their previous decision making. I also think Liam isn't the best speaker compared to the likes of NP, LJ and Cotterill which has not helped win fans over unfortunately. 

I think overall he is doing OK. I get angry about the away performances like WBA, Portsmouth, Derby and Blackburn because I just think we're a better side than what we showed in them matches in particular which left me and probably many other fans feeling very frustrated.

6 out of 13 home wins, could definitely be better.

[JBFC II]

3 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

6 out of 13 home wins, could definitely be better.

Just shy of 1.8ppg, if we were to keep that up until the end of the season it would be our best home record since we were promoted.

Not perfect but a definite improvement on anything we've had in the past 9 years

[shelts]

Can only beat what’s put in front of you. 
We didn’t need to be on top form as Derby didn’t offer very much . 
A nice run at the moment so time to enjoy it and see where this takes us. 
Lack of consistency is our main problem and with that dropping silly points . 
 

[MarcusX]

21 hours ago, pillred said:

Do the Manning out posts look now?

Not sure it's fair to say they are embarrasing. We've won games we would expect to, that's good, we've not been good at that for years.

He looks like he's adapted the way we play, and our shape, since a lot of that criticism. That's also good.

Is everything rosy and brilliant? certainly not. Are their signs of improvement and he might have adjusted his plan based on recent failings? Yes.

Hope it continues, I was going to write a "but", but I'll it at that. I really hope it continues.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

On 04/01/2025 at 21:52, Davefevs said:

Don’t worry, he / she accused me of going quiet on here after City win. Of all the posters on OTIB to claim “goes quiet after a win”, he / she chose me.  Lordy, Lordy, effin’ hat-stand!

On a brighter note, aside from the win, nice to see the banned users creating more accounts and getting banned so quickly.

 

On 04/01/2025 at 21:54, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Quote me the post .

Hi Dave

I asked you to quote me the post where I state that you go missing after a win.

If you can't do this then it wouldn't be hard to analyse that you're making things up to score points. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

 

Hi Dave

I asked you to quote me the post where I state that you go missing after a win.

If you can't do this then it wouldn't be hard to analyse that you're making things up to score points. 

See my reply to you above.

You’re the self-confessed master of the OTIB poster search function, I gave a similar reply when you claimed it previously.

[Davefevs]

[JP Hampton]

On 04/01/2025 at 18:05, Silvio Dante said:

It takes a special someone to have their first thought after a win to want to troll people as opposed to talking about the performance. I thought the same on the “Where are the optimistic posters” thread tbh.

Anyway, to the point. I tipped onto Manning out post WBA, and even with the 10 points since, I’m probably still there. I like a few recent things - for example I think Liam has got over his Twine “special case” stance and now has ST playing in his third favoured position - but now playing for the team and being a far better player for it. All credit there. And ten points from twelve in any context is good news - yes, it’s against the poorer sides in the division but we lost to two of the four in the first round of games.

For me, I am still unconvinced. It was scrappy today (much as Luton) and I’m not seeing signs that we really will trouble the scorers at the end of the season. At the halfway point we probably needed 2ppg to make the playoffs (and to reach Tinnions ten points better off target) - we’re on 2.33 ppg but asking this to be sustained at even the lower level seems a bridge too far for me. There is the point that performances lag results (both positive and negative) and I think we’ve probably just about snuck over the line (probably edging games) in 2 of the 3 wins on this run.

So, no, don’t think it was embarrassing. I’m still not seeing us as a playoff side or markedly improving on last year - but there is a very good opportunity to do so based on the run of fixtures coming. Talk in a month, and if we’re seeing the results coupled with performances, I’m happy to retract then. 
 

But, genuinely, there’s only one thing that’s embarrassing here.

Agree. Although (as I’m sure you’re aware) you don’t actually have to retract anything. Your comments have been  based on the way we were performing at that point and you weren’t alone in feeling we were a long way from being top six contenders. 
 We still haven’t actually proved anything yet, other than we’ve been putting together some better performances and certain players are settling into their roles at this point. 
 It is pathetic that this drivel gets churned out and that certain people actually get pleasure in posting such nonsense. 

[NDW4CITY]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

As momentous a day as when we went to 3 points for a win…..

[JP Hampton]

On 04/01/2025 at 18:14, Super said:

Whilst it's pretty embarrassing you do notice posters go missing when we win.

And certain others go missing when we lose

[Silvio Dante]

31 minutes ago, JP Hampton said:

Agree. Although (as I’m sure you’re aware) you don’t actually have to retract anything. Your comments have been  based on the way we were performing at that point and you weren’t alone in feeling we were a long way from being top six contenders. 
 We still haven’t actually proved anything yet, other than we’ve been putting together some better performances and certain players are settling into their roles at this point. 
 It is pathetic that this drivel gets churned out and that certain people actually get pleasure in posting such nonsense. 

Indeed - and thank you!

What I meant was that if we carry on performing in more difficult games (and I use performing loosely as I think we’ve been ok as opposed to dominant in two of the three wins), then I’ll move towards retracting the LM out stance. As we stand, after 60 odd games and some false dawns, three wins aren’t enough at this point to move the dial.

As the quote goes - When the facts change, I change my opinion. And if we see consistency and improvement, I will - but as I said on the Twine thread, it’s equally (if not more) myopic to say things are great and people should be embarrassed without acknowledging the journey - which has been anything but linear and we still don’t know the destination.

The broader point you make about people disappearing win or lose is spot on. Ironically, it’s more often those who sit in the “everything is awesome” side who don’t post after a defeat as that might conflict with their worldview, whereas those on the more critical side tend to post win or lose as they’re looking for those improvements that get us to the next level even in a victory.

Edited January 7 by Silvio Dante

[cotswoldred2]

25 minutes ago, JP Hampton said:

And certain others go missing when we lose

I don't think that is the case, I don't anyway, don't like gloating when we win, and no need to prosecute the normal sack hacks that gleefully reappear every so often. 

I responded 3 matches ago that I felt 70 points was very unlikely, it seems now that it is very much doable and we should all really get behind Manning et all and then worry about what the Hell we do if we get top 6 at least.

As we are now in the mix we do need some extra help alongside Wells, not sure we will though, but maybe our two not so sharp shooters will find the target soon.

 

[Silvio Dante]

4 minutes ago, cotswoldred2 said:

I don't think that is the case, I don't anyway, don't like gloating when we win, and no need to prosecute the normal sack hacks that gleefully reappear every so often. 

I responded 3 matches ago that I felt 70 points was very unlikely, it seems now that it is very much doable and we should all really get behind Manning et all and then worry about what the Hell we do if we get top 6 at least.

As we are now in the mix we do need some extra help alongside Wells, not sure we will though, but maybe our two not so sharp shooters will find the target soon.

 

Totally…

 

[cotswoldred2]

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Totally…

 

Even more relevant now, what tremendous insight Moi ?

[cotswoldred2]

For a major poster on here you have a sensitive disposition.

[Silvio Dante]

10 minutes ago, cotswoldred2 said:

For a major poster on here you have a sensitive disposition.

I really don’t. 
 

What I don’t like is people saying “I don’t engage in gloating” and then when met with a post in the last fortnight that shows them gloating, not having the good grace to say “Yeah, fair enough”, and trying to deflect. Thats why the facepalm.

Have whatever opinion you like - but don’t bullshit. Simple.

[mozo]

44 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Indeed - and thank you!

What I meant was that if we carry on performing in more difficult games (and I use performing loosely as I think we’ve been ok as opposed to dominant in two of the three wins), then I’ll move towards retracting the LM out stance. As we stand, after 60 odd games and some false dawns, three wins aren’t enough at this point to move the dial.

As the quote goes - When the facts change, I change my opinion. And if we see consistency and improvement, I will - but as I said on the Twine thread, it’s equally (if not more) myopic to say things are great and people should be embarrassed without acknowledging the journey - which has been anything but linear and we still don’t know the destination.

The broader point you make about people disappearing win or lose is spot on. Ironically, it’s more often those who sit in the “everything is awesome” side who don’t post after a defeat as that might conflict with their worldview, whereas those on the more critical side tend to post win or lose as they’re looking for those improvements that get us to the next level even in a victory.

Come on Silvio, forget the false dawns, put away the dial, and listen to Pastor Mozo. Take a leap of faith and join me on the back seat of the happy clappy fun bus for rending of "We Are Going Up"!

[Silvio Dante]

Just now, mozo said:

Come on Silvio, forget the false dawns, put away the dial, and listen to Pastor Mozo. Take a leap of faith and join me on the back seat of the happy clappy fun bus for rending of "We Are Going Up"!

Tbf mate you’re one poster who posts win or lose. Yes, it’s like you’ve had a load of uppers even if we’ve played shite and lost, but I can absolutely respect and even envy that!

But if you ever suggest again that next season we could go into it with a strike force of Fally, Sincs and SPH I will find you

[JP Hampton]

41 minutes ago, cotswoldred2 said:

I don't think that is the case, I don't anyway, don't like gloating when we win, and no need to prosecute the normal sack hacks that gleefully reappear every so often. 

I responded 3 matches ago that I felt 70 points was very unlikely, it seems now that it is very much doable and we should all really get behind Manning et all and then worry about what the Hell we do if we get top 6 at least.

As we are now in the mix we do need some extra help alongside Wells, not sure we will though, but maybe our two not so sharp shooters will find the target soon.

 

Not sure why you think I was aiming that at you and if that’s not you,why comment? I have no recollection of what you post off the top of my head. 
 I agree with the rest of your post though.  

[mozo]

4 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Tbf mate you’re one poster who posts win or lose. Yes, it’s like you’ve had a load of uppers even if we’ve played shite and lost, but I can absolutely respect and even envy that!

But if you ever suggest again that next season we could go into it with a strike force of Fally, Sincs and SPH I will find you

Fair enough, I'll ask my doctor for some medication to keep my optimism down to a more reaspectable level.

[Davefevs]

48 minutes ago, cotswoldred2 said:

I don't think that is the case, I don't anyway, don't like gloating when we win, and no need to prosecute the normal sack hacks that gleefully reappear every so often. 

I responded 3 matches ago that I felt 70 points was very unlikely, it seems now that it is very much doable and we should all really get behind Manning et all and then worry about what the Hell we do if we get top 6 at least.

As we are now in the mix we do need some extra help alongside Wells, not sure we will though, but maybe our two not so sharp shooters will find the target soon.

 

I get behind Bristol City, it’s not about getting behind a person / persons (staff or player).  The inference that critiquing the club, its staff and / or its players on a forum, or X, or on SOTC, means we aren’t getting behind the “team” and in needing of a rally-call, I don’t get.  Hey ho.

[Robbored]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I get behind Bristol City, it’s not about getting behind a person / persons (staff or player).  The inference that critiquing the club, its staff and / or its players on a forum, or X, or on SOTC, means we aren’t getting behind the “team” and in needing of a rally-call, I don’t get.  Hey ho.

That applies to us all Dave but like pretty much every fan of whatever club feel entitled to criticise their club - doesn’t mean that they done support the club but want the best for said club.

Here on otib the Landowns and Tinnion receive masses of flak. The manager (whoever that might be) also gets regular negative comments - it’s par for the course and surely we’re all used to it!

Edited January 7 by Robbored

[cotswoldred2]

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I really don’t. 
 

What I don’t like is people saying “I don’t engage in gloating” and then when met with a post in the last fortnight that shows them gloating, not having the good grace to say “Yeah, fair enough”, and trying to deflect. Thats why the facepalm.

Have whatever opinion you like - but don’t bullshit

Hardly Gloating....it was supporting an player who gets stick and then comes good. 

[REDOXO]

9 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That applies to us all Dave but like pretty much every fan of whatever club feel entitled to criticise their club - doesn’t mean that they done support the club but want the best for said club.

Here on otib the Landowns and Tinnion receive masses of flak. The manager (whoever that might be) also gets regular negative comments - it’s par for the course and surely we’re all used to it!

Yes and it’s mostly forgotten!

———

This has become a very strange thread. 

[Solent Robin]

Not embarassing and critiquing the club, managers and players is absolutely fine. However, when there is very little credit given to LM even after a good victory or run of results it makes you question the reasons. Even when credit is given there is nearly always a but. I think it is more than the normal negativity from football fans and deeply ingrained due to how the NP sacking was handled and resentment that he wasn't given the tools i.e. money, to finish the job. However, there is no point comparing apples with pears. Judging LM on his performance alone there are more positives than negatives imo. No doubting he has made mistakes but in the main I have understood what he is trying to do although not necessarily agreeing with it. 

Has there been progression? As it currently stands there has been some progress as we are in touching distance of the play offs. There have been highs and lows in terms of performances, so there is a need for greater consistency from better execution in both boxes. If we see this, we will get a better return on results subject to the usual fine margins. Like most managers he has his preferred way of playing, but is not wedded to a particular formation. Tactically he is evolving with regard to the opposition but perhaps over reliant on the data analysis with regard to his substitutions. The recruitment on which he has the final say, has been good except for the strategy of signing two project strikers which may yet cost us. Is he the man to lead us to the promise land? That is a difficult task irrespective who the manager is and many things will need to align. However, I am optimistic that he will take us closer than for many years. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

If I have a critique of Manning while acknowledging certain improvements, in-game tweaks and or mixing up the substitutions still feels lacking.

Yeah faith in methods is important but it's a tough League, I would suggest there is a gap to League One so a bit more thinking on feet and proactivity, perhaps even forward thinking would be useful.

I wonder where in a hypothetical experiment where this City squad of players under Manning would be in League One this season.. up there with Birmingham or above? Albeit Stansfield is very good.

[Spike]

I think the biggest issue that causes posts like this is that a poster will have become frustrated with a few posters who disagree with them on various points/views and are desperate to be proved right rather than enjoy being right. 

I'm still in the camp that Manning will not be the man to take us into the play offs but in this case I'd actually like to be proven wrong. My biggest criticism of Manning is that he is reactive rather than proactive. I've criticised him on how he's had the team playing in the last 20 minutes of games which have cost us points but to his credit the game against Derby was the first time I've seen us look like a team capable of games management when under pressure. I'm hoping we've turned a corner there, just as we seem to have turned a corner in playing through the middle rather than being wing heavy as we were prior to the upturn in form. 

This brings me onto the upturn in form and how we find ourselves close to the play offs again. We've definitely played some good football in the good run of form, we've shown aspects of the game that were missing prior to it too, for that I give Manning his credit, I was genuinely worried that he just didn't have it in his bag. 

Our current run of form has to take in consideration of the opponents, we beat Derby, Portsmouth, Plymouth and Luton. All of these teams are in the bottom 7 positions of the league and in the same time we've beaten these teams we also took a 3-0 thumping from Portsmouth and only managed a draw with Plymouth in the same run. We managed draws with QPR and our best result was the draw with Sunderland at their ground. We also lost to West Brom making of the play off positioned teams we didn't win any and of our last 15 points earned 13 came from bottom 7 teams, 1 from mid table and only one from a promotion chasing team. That's the realism of the situation, yes we've picked up a good amount of points but let's see how we're fairing with 10 games to go because in those last 10 games we'll be playing games against Leeds, Sunderland, West Brom, Sheffield United and Burnley which is not the best line up if we're fighting for a play off spot especially when you consider that of the current teams above us, the only team we've beaten is Middlesbrough. 

So, with regards to the winning points over each other game, the only way you're long to know if you won is when the season is over and with us just having the best set of fixtures for gaining points having just passed the team is going to need to step up a gear to keep that momentum going and Manning is going to need to improve on his results against the promotion chasing teams if he wants us to be one. 

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, Spike said:

My biggest criticism of Manning is that he is reactive rather than proactive.

I think he more pre-defined rather than either reactive or proactive per se.

I don’t really care who we’ve got our points against, it’s about whether we can get enough in total. For me, It is more about whether the recent results and performances (in the main) over the Xmas period are an indicator of improvement or not.  We don’t know yet.

9 hours ago, Solent Robin said:

Even when credit is given there is nearly always a but. I think it is more than the normal negativity from football fans and deeply ingrained due to how the NP sacking was handled and resentment that he wasn't given the tools i.e. money, to finish the job. However, there is no point comparing apples with pears. Judging LM on his performance alone there are more positives than negatives imo.

I don’t get why people keep bringing this up?  It is used as a weak argument for any critique of Manning.  He was sacked over a year ago, Manning has had 57 league games for people to form opinions on, without needing to refer back to or compare to Pearson, let alone how he was sacked influence their thoughts

Manning can be critiqued on Manning.

Manning can be critiqued on the targets for Manning.

I feel that bar the odd one or two (on either side), Pearson is largely brought up by those trying to defend Manning, whereas those being “negative” are doing it on Manning alone.  They don’t seem to want to be objective and defend Manning on his own performance, they want to say the only reason people of being “critical” of Manning is because of Pearson.  That’s pretty lame imho.  Just defend Manning, if that’s what you think, on Manning.

When I’ve posted what I think is a reasonable set of targets for Manning, nobody has ever come back and said “Dave, that’s unfair, that’s way too high”, because….they are reasonable, they are even set lower than the “crap” spouted by our own hierarchy.  So that is what most on here are judging him on…reasonably set fan targets.

And until this recent run, he’s mainly been a underperforming a bit.  And now he’s got back to par…and getting credit for that, well done Manning etc for the recent run.  But he’s not gonna get “ah, he’s cracked it now, onwards and upwards”, because we don’t know, and we’ve had a few false dawns, the up trends usually recovering from a down trend (rather than the other way around), so I think cautiousness is the word here.  If you listen to this week’s BBCRB Sound of the City, you’ll hear me say this, that I’m generally positive / hopeful, that I’ve enjoyed more about the last few games than I did the early season stuff.  I’ve written the same on here.

Nothing to do with Pearson, just Manning on Manning and the underlying resources he’s been given.

For you, what are the positives and the negatives on Manning’s performance?

[grifty]

On 05/01/2025 at 11:35, 2015 said:

I still have the same concerns as I did post-WBA. We've seen too often that this side has it in them to pull a duffer performance away from home and get slapped 2 or 3-0. We've also dropped roughly 11 points from winning positions in the final 5 minutes this season. 

To be fair, every team in football as a chance of having a game they just don’t turn up in and get beat 2/3-0, we are a mid table championship side, we will have weaknesses.

To not expect that is unrealistic. If it was happening every week it would be an issue but a few times a season has to be expected unfortunately, especially in such a competitive league like the Championship.

The losing points in injury time needs to be minimized (you won’t be able to stop is completely) but hopefully after how we ended Derby, we may see similar tactical improvements.

On 05/01/2025 at 11:35, 2015 said:

I still have the same concerns as I did post-WBA. We've seen too often that this side has it in them to pull a duffer performance away from home and get slapped 2 or 3-0. We've also dropped roughly 11 points from winning positions in the final 5 minutes this season. 

To be fair, every team in football as a chance of having a game they just don’t turn up in and get beat 2/3-0, we are a mid table championship side, we will have weaknesses.

To not expect that is unrealistic. If it was happening every week it would be an issue but a few times a season has to be expected unfortunately, especially in such a competitive league like the Championship.

The losing points in injury time needs to be minimized (you won’t be able to stop is completely) but hopefully after how we ended Derby, we may see similar tactical improvements.

[grifty]

Woops!

Edited January 8 by grifty

[Solent Robin]

My issue is why LM gets very little credit and questioned why? Think you have been selective in the words you have highlighted Fevs, given that I also said that it is like comparing apples and pears. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that it relates to what was said by JL and BT at the time, which as set the tone. If that is not the reason, what is or do you believe he gets enough credit in which case we can agree to disagree. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, Solent Robin said:

My issue is why LM gets very little credit and questioned why? Think you have been selective in the words you have highlighted Fevs, given that I also said that it is like comparing apples and pears. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that it relates to what was said by JL and BT at the time, which as set the tone. If that is not the reason, what is or do you believe he gets enough credit in which case we can agree to disagree. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, the highlighted bits are the bits I mainly responded to, so highlighting to give you an idea of the context of my reply.  I agree that it’s comparing apples with pears, it’s Manning’s pears we are evaluating, hence I didn’t highlight it, because I had nothing to add on that.

I think Liam Manning doesn’t get “much” credit “overall”, purely because he’s underperformed (general term for below target) for a chunk of his time here.  Not hugely, but enough.  It’s as simple as that.  Some people have praised him all the way through his 14 months here, did he deserve that?  This ain’t a one-sided debate by any stretch!

If he “levels-out” at this current level of performance that has seen us get back on / around (my) target, then he’ll get continue to get the level of credit he’s currently getting.  If the trend goes up from here, even better, then he’ll get more credit / praise.  If he drops back to “win, lose, draw”, he’ll get some criticism.  Isn’t that how it should be?

In evaluating Manning, you have to look back too (not to Pearson though), ie how has he got to where he is at this point.  For example, why is the way we are playing at the mo’, not what he planned in the summer, what has he learned (assuming he didn’t just stumble upon it - I’m sure it was done with good analysis not luck).  If you don’t do that, 1) how do you see / measure any improvement and 2) gain confident that this is the “new-norm” not just another little run that works for a few games and reverts.

So to reiterate my comment in para2, overall he’s got more criticism than credit because generally he’s underperformed (imho against my targets that aren’t deemed unreasonable)….not for any other reason.

It’s no different to Twine.  Wasn’t very influential first part the season, been better recently, culminating in him getting my unofficial motm on Saturday.

No agenda(s)….other than the pure and simple want for Bristol City to do well / at least as well as what I target them to do so.  And I think the inner part of the bell-curve of fans on here are no different.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

We've got to par, before we weren't progressing as such and LM was flexible with numbers too ie the 15 Shots thing at Fans Forum.. if we can build on this then good news all round and that can be argued as Progress but we aren't doing anything remarkable yet IMO.

[Numero Uno]

10 hours ago, Spike said:

I think the biggest issue that causes posts like this is that a poster will have become frustrated with a few posters who disagree with them on various points/views and are desperate to be proved right rather than enjoy being right. 

I'm still in the camp that Manning will not be the man to take us into the play offs but in this case I'd actually like to be proven wrong. My biggest criticism of Manning is that he is reactive rather than proactive. I've criticised him on how he's had the team playing in the last 20 minutes of games which have cost us points but to his credit the game against Derby was the first time I've seen us look like a team capable of games management when under pressure. I'm hoping we've turned a corner there, just as we seem to have turned a corner in playing through the middle rather than being wing heavy as we were prior to the upturn in form. 

This brings me onto the upturn in form and how we find ourselves close to the play offs again. We've definitely played some good football in the good run of form, we've shown aspects of the game that were missing prior to it too, for that I give Manning his credit, I was genuinely worried that he just didn't have it in his bag. 

Our current run of form has to take in consideration of the opponents, we beat Derby, Portsmouth, Plymouth and Luton. All of these teams are in the bottom 7 positions of the league and in the same time we've beaten these teams we also took a 3-0 thumping from Portsmouth and only managed a draw with Plymouth in the same run. We managed draws with QPR and our best result was the draw with Sunderland at their ground. We also lost to West Brom making of the play off positioned teams we didn't win any and of our last 15 points earned 13 came from bottom 7 teams, 1 from mid table and only one from a promotion chasing team. That's the realism of the situation, yes we've picked up a good amount of points but let's see how we're fairing with 10 games to go because in those last 10 games we'll be playing games against Leeds, Sunderland, West Brom, Sheffield United and Burnley which is not the best line up if we're fighting for a play off spot especially when you consider that of the current teams above us, the only team we've beaten is Middlesbrough. 

So, with regards to the winning points over each other game, the only way you're long to know if you won is when the season is over and with us just having the best set of fixtures for gaining points having just passed the team is going to need to step up a gear to keep that momentum going and Manning is going to need to improve on his results against the promotion chasing teams if he wants us to be one. 

The wins, even against bottom 7, give you confidence but we’ve got to use that confidence to improve execution against the tougher sides. For example we can’t go round blowing 3 v 1’s against good sides otherwise it will cost us. Similarly our game management if we are beating them in a tight game has to be on point. In our league it’s that ruthlessness that sees teams put meaningful runs together.

[Solent Robin]

LM may not have reached the target (top 6) as yet, but neither has he fallen that far short given the handicap of excessive injuries and the integration of several signings in the summer. Granted he had a solid baseline, but Rome (top 6) wasn't built in a day or half a season. My expectation is also different to the target imo I.e. top 10, which allows for the small margins that will be encountered. So if top 6 is success, what is failure? Whilst my expectation is top 10, it depends how far short we are and why. If there has been progress in performances with greater consistency then I would be content (if not overly happy) to give LM another shot. However, still a long way to go this season and hopefully, the recent improvement will continue.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Solent Robin said:

LM may not have reached the target (top 6) as yet, but neither has he fallen that far short given the handicap of excessive injuries and the integration of several signings in the summer. Granted he had a solid baseline, but Rome (top 6) wasn't built in a day or half a season. My expectation is also different to the target imo I.e. top 10, which allows for the small margins that will be encountered. So if top 6 is success, what is failure? Whilst my expectation is top 10, it depends how far short we are and why. If there has been progress in performances with greater consistency then I would be content (if not overly happy) to give LM another shot. However, still a long way to go this season and hopefully, the recent improvement will continue.

If neither you or I are judging Manning on top 6, but something more aligned with each other and sensible / realistic like “top 10 and in the mix”, then evaluate on that basis…which is what I’m doing.  My target already factors in stuff like - we have to embed players (so does every other Championship side) we might have injuries (so does every other championship side), because that’s the reason we have a big(ger) squad (some championship sides do, some don’t).  Manning describes these things specifically and accepts them.

Sitting here today, Manning is pretty much on target, and my comments are more positive as a result.  There are a few things in the wider remit that can be critiqued (and not necessarily aimed at Manning, some not at all), but generally we are now on track to meet both of our targets.

But until this recent run, he wasn’t…and my comments reflected that level performance.

Success and Failure isn’t black or white / boom and bust, nor is it the only two outcomes, there’s a lot of grey in between that’s quite acceptable.  Medium Grey is fine btw….thats where he kinda has us today.

[Solent Robin]

So we are not too far apart Fevs