We need a new striker... Or do we?

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Because it's those parachute payment clubs that will outbid us for anyone that's good enough to be what we want or need.

Mopping up what's left that they don't want is what's got us where we are now. 

How do we break that cycle..? I don't know.

You only have to look at Luton to realise that just grabbing 1 season in the prem doesn't then turn you into one of the big boys of the Championship.

There is alot to be said for SL's slow but steady build strategy- however frustrating it might be.

You can't argue that, although currently not quite enough, we have improved, slightly, season on season, for the past 4/5 years.

It's slower than many would like & who knows if it will ultimately lead anywhere, or if 8th is our ceiling.? 

Like Stoke you mean?

Loan for Cannon, no Parachutes since 2020-21, Parachute Free.

[Bar BS3]

25 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

In respect of Yates, seems to be a solid pro at this level, Swansea stint permitting.

Unsure what ratio were penalties but I can see why he attracted interest at Blackpool.

Done quite alright at Derby, Goals and Assists, Non Penalties. Think our 3 between them have 9 Non Penalty Goals.

Swansea the big negative.

Riis would be quality IMO. Realistic that is  another debate.

I'm not convinced with Yates.

I'd be very pleased with Riis.

Cannon (I know who you mean now) would be the most exciting - although unlikely to be within or price range or available on a permanent deal - so likely only ever a loan option. 

[City oz]

26 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

We play one up top. I don't think anyone expects Manning to deviate from that.

Therefore any outright striker that comes in is, if he plays, going to take that position at the expense of our current strike force.

So, for the investment in the new guy to be sensible you have to reasonably expect him to score more than the strikers we have. He has to replace our current goals from strikers as well as improve on that return.

So far our strikers (Wells, Armstrong and Mayulu) have 10 goals between them over 26 league games, from a cumulative xG of 10.0 (so they've scored what you can expect given the chances we've created for them). So that singular up front CF position has, broadly, delivered within the system being played.

So what's that per game? It's 0.38 goals per game. 

Now if you think you can find a player that we can afford, who wants to play for us, can hit the ground running immediately, and will score at least 8 goals in 20 games (assuming he signs before Coventry) - then get him in and sign him up.

But, please show me the last Championship CF winter signing made by any club who got that kind of goal return.

In my opinion a striker would be a waste of money.

The posts on OTIB lean towards that we need a goal scorer. There are not many negative posts except for yours. Your synopsis tells that you have done your homework. It seems that you have maybe got used to mid table championship football.

Were you around in the late 70s when we played in the topflight. Time is now running out for me, and I hope prem football will soon arrive at BS3.

[Bar BS3]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Like Stoke you mean?

Loan for Cannon, no Parachutes since 2020-21, Parachute Free.

He'd be a great loan signing!

Could we be a more stable & appealing loan club for him than Stoke..? I would think so.

Is there any liklihood that he would be recalled & sent elsewhere during January.?

If that were a possibility, would we be pick of the bunch of all the clubs (parachute, or not) that would be interested in him..?

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I'm not convinced with Yates.

I'd be very pleased with Riis.

Cannon (I know who you mean now) would be the most exciting - although unlikely to be within or price range or available on a permanent deal - so likely only ever a loan option. 

Fair..agree with most of these although think our style combined with his press and workrate could help..his record isn't terrible.

 

Just now, Bar BS3 said:

He'd be a great loan signing!

Could we be a more stable & appealing loan club for him than Stoke..? I would think so.

Is there any liklihood that he would be recalled & sent elsewhere during January.?

If that were a possibility, would we be pick of the bunch of all the clubs (parachute, or not) that would be interested in him..?

I suppose it is about identifying Cannon or correct Profile before they move.

[Bar BS3]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Fair..agree with most of these although think our style combined with his press and workrate could help..his record isn't terrible.

 

I suppose it is about identifying Cannon or correct Profile before they move.

That's the thing - you won't be alone in noticing a 22 year old premier league club player who is on loan in the Championship & doing well.

Every club will be aware of him.

I doubt Stoke have any particular connection that make them his only loan destination - so IF he were to be recalled & sent elsewhere, I'd imagine it's highly unlikely that we'd win that race. 

I'd like to think we'd make the phone call & ask the question though - assuming he even has a recall option this month. 

[Bazooka Joe]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

We definitely don't need a "fox in the box" type striker. That isn't the way we play.

What would propel.us to the next level would be a powerhouse front man. One who can drop deep & link play, turn & run at goal, shoot from distance & run the channels to release pressure & enable support to get up to him.

Anyone got £15/20 million knocking around..?!

I was trying to think of the most recent player we've had who'd make a serious impact & I suppose it's Kodia or Maynard - although Semenyo as he is now would obviously be fantastic.

To be fair, even a clone of Famara would be a good addition & help defensively & offensively. 

There just aren't many of these players around & every team wants them.

 

I agree, we need a paricular type of striker. A busy, pacy player with good upper-body strength and positional sense.

@Davefevs makes a similar good point about having a striker that can create his own opportunities.

 

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, City oz said:

The posts on OTIB lean towards that we need a goal scorer. There are not many negative posts except for yours. Your synopsis tells that you have done your homework. It seems that you have maybe got used to mid table championship football.

Were you around in the late 70s when we played in the topflight. Time is now running out for me, and I hope prem football will soon arrive at BS3.

The entire premise of the thread is that we don't need to buy a striker - and I'm supporting that. That's not negative, if anything I'm being positive in saying that what we have is enough for the remainder of this season (we're 9th highest scorers, 7th for xG, top 10 for most attacking/shooting stats in fact). The attack is ok. 

If we are to somehow outperform our rivals consistently over the next 20 games we need goal difference. I believe that the most economical way of improving that with our resources, and our system, is to invest at the back.

Look at Plymouth away, Sunderland, Sheffield Utd at home. Points lost at the back not the front.

Look at the actual top 7 teams. Bar Blackburn all have much, much better goal difference than we do. How?

Well, all bar Boro have conceded considerably fewer goals than we have whilst only Boro and Burnley have scored significantly more.

You get more for your money in defence, defensive midfield, and goalkeeper than you do up front.

That's the wise deployment of cash this window. 

In my opinion.

[Bar BS3]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

The entire premise of the thread is that we don't need to buy a striker - and I'm supporting that. That's not negative, if anything I'm being positive in saying that what we have is enough for the remainder of this season (we're 9th highest scorers, 7th for xG, top 10 for most attacking/shooting stats in fact). The attack is ok. 

If we are to somehow outperform our rivals consistently over the next 20 games we need goal difference. I believe that the most economical way of improving that with our resources, and our system, is to invest at the back.

Look at Plymouth away, Sunderland, Sheffield Utd at home. Points lost at the back not the front.

Look at the actual top 7 teams. Bar Blackburn all have much, much better goal difference than we do. How?

Well, all bar Boro have conceded considerably fewer goals than we have whilst only Boro and Burnley have scored significantly more.

You get more for your money in defence, defensive midfield, and goalkeeper than you do up front.

That's the wise deployment of cash this window. 

In my opinion.

I agree, but then I don't think we'd be signing anyone better than we currently have.

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I agree, but then I don't think we'd be signing anyone better than we currently have.

I largely agree.

Honestly, and I've said this to Fevs in DM, I think the best RoI would be to take the (hypothetical) £5m and £17k a week wages that people want to spend on a CF and see if Stoke will give us Johansson.

I like Max. I think it's possible to get top 6 with Max in goal. I think with Johansson in there it's probable we get top 6.

Pie in the sky football manager stuff...but OTIB's all about mad opinions and thoughts.

Edited January 5 by ExiledAjax

[Davefevs]

36 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I largely agree.

Honestly, and I've said this to Fevs in DM, I think the best RoI would be to take the (hypothetical) £5m and £17k a week wages that people want to spend on a CF and see if Stoke will give us Johansson.

I like Max. I think it's possible to get top 6 with Max in goal. I think with Johansson in there it's probable we get top 6.

Pie in the sky football manager stuff...but OTIB's all about mad opinions and thoughts.

Go and get Daniel Iversen from Leicester.

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Go and get Daniel Iversen from Leicester.

He'll be getting minutes at the King Power soon surely! 

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

He'll be getting minutes at the King Power soon surely! 

Probably 

[HengroveReds]

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/luton-town-sheffield-wednesday-keen-on-breaking-stoke-city-transfer-tom-cannon/
 

If Sheff Weds after him, we should be competing too. Manning type of player.. and Irish! A runner and goalscorer. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Go and get Daniel Iversen from Leicester.

Indeed, suspect that Dan would be the Man and Cannon would fire us onwards.

Edited January 5 by Mr Popodopolous

[Merrick's Marvels]

7 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Because it's those parachute payment clubs that will outbid us for anyone that's good enough to be what we want or need.

Mopping up what's left that they don't want is what's got us where we are now. 

How do we break that cycle..? I don't know.

I agree we're in a tight spot trying to achieve better results over a 46 game season than clubs with Parachute Payments. Also, a lot of those clubs have bigger crowds and bigger turnovers than us, irrespective of PPs. And also, let's face it, a lot of those clubs are "sexier". 

So what to do, indeed.

Well for me, part of the answer, PART, is to employ people who've been there and done it, who know how to achieve the club's stated aim - promotion - because they've been there and done it. 

That's part of the answer, part of how you "hack" the promotion conundrum for us.

Not long ago, we employed a manager who'd done exactly that. And he signed a couple of players who'd done exactly that. As well as coaches with top flight experience.

Then we sacked off the lot. On the face of it because the owner's feelings were hurt.

As I say, that is PART of our hack. Imo.

Don't wish to derail the thread, so will leave it there. Logging off now to laugh at Man U (hopefully). 

[Jose]

4 hours ago, HengroveReds said:

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/luton-town-sheffield-wednesday-keen-on-breaking-stoke-city-transfer-tom-cannon/
 

If Sheff Weds after him, we should be competing too. Manning type of player.. and Irish! A runner and goalscorer. 

Would love that too happen and would be a real statement that we mean business. It’s our poorest area of the team by far ( Wells doing a great job but can’t do it all). Right age too…..
 

Won’t happen. 

 

Edited January 5 by Jose

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

I agree we're in a tight spot trying to achieve better results over a 46 game season than clubs with Parachute Payments. Also, a lot of those clubs have bigger crowds and bigger turnovers than us, irrespective of PPs. And also, let's face it, a lot of those clubs are "sexier". 

So what to do, indeed.

Well for me, part of the answer, PART, is to employ people who've been there and done it, who know how to achieve the club's stated aim - promotion - because they've been there and done it. 

That's part of the answer, part of how you "hack" the promotion conundrum for us.

Not long ago, we employed a manager who'd done exactly that. And he signed a couple of players who'd done exactly that. As well as coaches with top flight experience.

Then we sacked off the lot. On the face of it because the owner's feelings were hurt.

As I say, that is PART of our hack. Imo.

Don't wish to derail the thread, so will leave it there. Logging off now to laugh at Man U (hopefully). 

Crowds yes, turnover not necessarily. Norwich maybe, a Post Parachute Payments Leeds if it comes to pass but not many.

Agree with the rest of your post..Parachute sides presently are Leeds, Sheffield United, Burnley and Luton.

Edited January 5 by Mr Popodopolous

[Chairman Mao]

22 hours ago, BobBobBobbin said:

I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing; In fact in my lifetime at this level the only time we've had a 20 goal striker at this level and not been pretty shite was Maynard in 09/10 (10th). Akinbyi (relegated) Tammy (almost relegated) and Andi (lower midtable and arguably a 10)...

Give me a functional team over a 20 goal individual any day

 

Kodjia erasure (further proving your point tbf)

[ExiledAjax]

@City oz I was too hard in my responses to you over the weekend.

I don't believe we need a striker this window, and they are generally overvalued at this time of year.

However, you are correct that if the right player is interested at the right price (loan or buy), then it could be something to consider.

[Shauntaylor85]

22 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Go and get Daniel Iversen from Leicester.

Agreed. This is a moment for city isn’t it, in a good position going into Jan, the Steve Gibson types go for it, SL needs to now, Iversen and an Al Hamadi could be difference between mid table and 6th spot. 

Edited January 6 by Shauntaylor85

[City oz]

13 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

@City oz I was too hard in my responses to you over the weekend.

I don't believe we need a striker this window, and they are generally overvalued at this time of year.

However, you are correct that if the right player is interested at the right price (loan or buy), then it could be something to consider.

No problem mate. Everyone on OTIB has the right to state their views. Some are good, some poor and some which creates good debate. 
 

your point of view is very valid.

[ExiledAjax]

7 minutes ago, City oz said:

No problem mate. Everyone on OTIB has the right to state their views. Some are good, some poor and some which creates good debate. 
 

your point of view is very valid.

Appreciated, but I failed to put my view across in a way that respected yours, and I should say that.

Have a great day.

[JP Hampton]

On 04/01/2025 at 20:51, BobBobBobbin said:

The consensus seems to be that we "need a striker" in order to improve. However, my contention has been that no matter who goes up top for us it isn't going to result in more goals as Liam has never built a team where a striker scores a lot of goals. 

This bares out statistically looking at his managerial career. (The data contains other managers and misses the part season at MK and Oxford; because I didn't think it fair to include, but for completeness the top scorers in the Oxford season were a midfielder and winger on 9 goals and at MK 11 goals for Mo Eisa)

Lommel

To be fair to Ugalde, his Gp90 is very good (He's got a pretty good record since too).

MK Dons

 

The standout is Twiney, a 10. Eisa and Parrot were 12 from 28 starts and 8 from 34 respectively, not prolific.

Oxford

Harris got 15, again not prolific and again the stand out is that Brannagan, Rodriguez and Goodhram had 29 between them from midfield

City

Goals shared about again

And again, Anis and Twine look likely to get a very decent G+A number each...

 

So, does a "goalscorer" actually fit into Manning's system? Or, is our "forward" actually a facilitator in his system that will allow a lot of goal contributions from the supporting players like Anis and Twine? 

So when we are pining for your Kone's or Grays or whoever else, should we actually be looking at players like Mark Harris/Jerry Yates who do the dirty work for the technical players in behind?

This has been why I was most annoyed by the decision to loan out SPH. Say what you like about him as the finished article, I think he's the most like a Harris/Yates type that we have...

 

Sticking £5m on a goalscorer isn't going to change much, imo. It's not about that. 

 

I thought it was interesting anyway...

Great post and like others hadn’t considered this. Having a team (as opposed to a 20+ solo striker) with a choice of potential goal scorers and the threat coming from all positions, will make us a difficult team to defend against. 

[RedRoss]

If we do strengthen again up top and I'm not sure we will currently. We need a Rooney esq player. Someone who works hard for the team but can do something special. Unfortunately they are super rare and loads of money. 

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, RedRoss said:

If we do strengthen again up top and I'm not sure we will currently. We need a Rooney esq player. Someone who works hard for the team but can do something special. Unfortunately they are super rare and loads of money. 

Well he is available...

[Topper 123]

The time to strengthen is now ,in sight of playoffs we’ve been here before and missed out due to lack of investment ( strengthening)we need to push on as I don’t think we are quite strong enough , one injury up top away from collapse 

[Leabrook]

I’m amazed some think we don’t need a striker.  Wells has done okay but his performances have been overrated simply due to him not being Fally or Armstrong and he runs around.  His finishing is average as is his link up play.  If we had someone like Bobby Reid up front now…wow! 

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, Topper 123 said:

The time to strengthen is now ,in sight of playoffs we’ve been here before and missed out due to lack of investment ( strengthening)we need to push on as I don’t think we are quite strong enough , one injury up top away from collapse 

In more than one position too!  We now have some very important players.

20 minutes ago, Leabrook said:

I’m amazed some think we don’t need a striker.  Wells has done okay but his performances have been overrated simply due to him not being Fally or Armstrong and he runs around.  His finishing is average as is his link up play.  If we had someone like Bobby Reid up front now…wow! 

I beg to differ.  His impact on the team when he’s on the pitch is underestimated.  Our press / block was pretty poor early season, since Nahki has come back in, that’s changed / improved significantly…and that is the trigger to us creating chances against unstructured defences.  Our defence starts from Nahki up-top.

With Nahki on the pitch the “team” score twice as many as they concede (23 : 11).  That’s not all down to him, but it’s stark when you look at Amstrong (6 : 13) or Mayulu (4 : 7).  There’s some causation to the correlation there!

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

In more than one position too!  We now have some very important players.

I beg to differ.  His impact on the team when he’s on the pitch is underestimated.  Our press / block was pretty poor early season, since Nahki has come back in, that’s changed / improved significantly…and that is the trigger to us creating chances against unstructured defences.  Our defence starts from Nahki up-top.

With Nahki on the pitch the “team” score twice as many as they concede (23 : 11).  That’s not all down to him, but it’s stark when you look at Amstrong (6 : 13) or Mayulu (4 : 7).  There’s some causation to the correlation there!

Wells the clear leader in defensive actions across the pitch, and has by far the best block/interception numbers - which to me points to better off the ball pressure/pressing rather than purely reacting to opponents when they have the ball. Fally has some good numbers in terms of putting it about higher up but clearly isn't coming back to block shots or really do much in our third. You might have some heatmaps to support that?

Armstrong...I mean good lord do something mate.

[Davefevs]

[Cider man]

Could we get this guy SK Brann in Norway?Looks a very good bosman,only thing is that he isn't a international yet and I say yet 

 

[Davefevs]

Why has he played so few minutes?  Why did he spend so much time on the bench despite excellent goals per 90?  Completed 90 mins once?

[Jose]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

In more than one position too!  We now have some very important players.

I beg to differ.  His impact on the team when he’s on the pitch is underestimated.  Our press / block was pretty poor early season, since Nahki has come back in, that’s changed / improved significantly…and that is the trigger to us creating chances against unstructured defences.  Our defence starts from Nahki up-top.

With Nahki on the pitch the “team” score twice as many as they concede (23 : 11).  That’s not all down to him, but it’s stark when you look at Amstrong (6 : 13) or Mayulu (4 : 7).  There’s some causation to the correlation there!

I think that just backs up the case we need another forward to help support him. The downgrade once Wells goes off is clear for anyone to see. Unbelievably we do have a real chance to get into the top 6. I mean I don’t think we have but the table doesn’t lie. 

[Cider man]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Why has he played so few minutes?  Why did he spend so much time on the bench despite excellent goals per 90?  Completed 90 mins once?

No idea

[DaveInSA]

On 04/01/2025 at 22:34, Davefevs said:

Plan B, ie plan A with as similar a striker as Wells = Sam Bell

 

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

In more than one position too!  We now have some very important players.

I beg to differ.  His impact on the team when he’s on the pitch is underestimated.  Our press / block was pretty poor early season, since Nahki has come back in, that’s changed / improved significantly…and that is the trigger to us creating chances against unstructured defences.  Our defence starts from Nahki up-top.

With Nahki on the pitch the “team” score twice as many as they concede (23 : 11).  That’s not all down to him, but it’s stark when you look at Amstrong (6 : 13) or Mayulu (4 : 7).  There’s some causation to the correlation there!

It’s both of these posts really isn’t it.

I LIKE Sam Bell. I think there is a player in there. The job of Nahki and the coaching staff is to get Sam to be more effective - to do the Nahki Wells job. I know he can do it.

In 2025, defending in football starts at the top of the pitch. If you press teams effectively into mistakes, in this division, with our level of players, IMO this is how we can get to the play-offs. This is what makes the difference. We need the lone striker to act as a wolf, hunting down defenders, leading the charge for the attacking midfielders, to mercilessly run for the team and chipping in with 8-12 goals a season. If Bell gets 4-5 and Nahki gets 10-12 - that would be a big positive result for me.

I also love this thread in general - there’s such a nuance to how we perform. I don’t think we need a “proven goal scorer”. I think we need to work with what we have - to use our resources at their most effective - surely Manning can see this as he’s such a data nerd. As the numbers show @Davefevs, we’re better in defence AND attack when Wells plays.

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

 

It’s both of these posts really isn’t it.

I LIKE Sam Bell. I think there is a player in there. The job of Nahki and the coaching staff is to get Sam to be more effective - to do the Nahki Wells job. I know he can do it.

In 2025, defending in football starts at the top of the pitch. If you press teams effectively into mistakes, in this division, with our level of players, IMO this is how we can get to the play-offs. This is what makes the difference. We need the lone striker to act as a wolf, hunting down defenders, leading the charge for the attacking midfielders, to mercilessly run for the team and chipping in with 8-12 goals a season. If Bell gets 4-5 and Nahki gets 10-12 - that would be a big positive result for me.

I also love this thread in general - there’s such a nuance to how we perform. I don’t think we need a “proven goal scorer”. I think we need to work with what we have - to use our resources at their most effective - surely Manning can see this as he’s such a data nerd. As the numbers show @Davefevs, we’re better in defence AND attack when Wells plays.

The slightly bizarre thing is that I’m not a huge Sam Bell fan..but I said last week, I’d be giving him every opportunity to be the natural successor to Wells (and in some respects Conway - but he’s gone) and this season’s rotation option.  In a couple of sub cameos since his return from injury he’s done rather well imho.  I’ll discount RWB at Sunderland (where he also did well), but I thought Luton and Portsmouth he looked sharp going both ways, and there were a couple of moments trying to receive back-to-goal that he shaped up like Wells.

I think using Bell means we can still attempt to play the same as when Wells is on…both with and without the ball…especially the press / block, which goes out the window with Mayulu, and lacks intelligence with Armstrong.

If I was to allow Manning a signing or two it would be RWB and GK.  The RWB on the proviso he sticks with wingbacks!  Although, I’m still being cautious until I see how we perform against the likes of Cov and Wednesday, who will test us in different ways.

[redsquirrel]

if we cant get another wells, why dont we just bring him on after 30 mins instead?

[Topper 123]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

In more than one position too!  We now have some very important players.

I beg to differ.  His impact on the team when he’s on the pitch is underestimated.  Our press / block was pretty poor early season, since Nahki has come back in, that’s changed / improved significantly…and that is the trigger to us creating chances against unstructured defences.  Our defence starts from Nahki up-top.

With Nahki on the pitch the “team” score twice as many as they concede (23 : 11).  That’s not all down to him, but it’s stark when you look at Amstrong (6 : 13) or Mayulu (4 : 7).  There’s some causation to the correlation there!

I agree but cop an injury and we are very short of options 

[Davefevs]

37 minutes ago, Topper 123 said:

I agree but cop an injury and we are very short of options 

Therein lies the challenge of recruitment and identifying players against the “promises” you give them when signing.  I don’t profess it’s easy either, but it makes a bit of a mockery of signing two players in the summer and not only finding that neither is (currently) first choice, your planned 3rd choice is 1st choice, and some debate whether either of them are even second choice (debate, discuss, Sam Bell).

If we truly aspire to a Brentford model, we need to be recruiting at least one summer ahead, ie the replacement is already in the building learning his craft ready to hit the ground running, and even be better than the guy just gone out the door for a gazillion pounds!

Hogan, Vibe, Maupay, Watkins, Toney, etc.  Toney was actually a bit of an exceotion, as he wasn’t in the building when Watkins left, but would’ve been, had they not had to deal with MacAnthony in a January window!

If we re-run our summer (perfect world scenario), we keep Conway (1) and Wells (2 rotation) and Mayulu is signed to be ready for 25-26, getting minutes where he can.  However I’m not sure Mayulu comes here as 3rd choice and limited minutes expectation.

[Galley is our king]

Sorry if this has already been said but the only need for this thread is the piss poor recruitment in the summer!

SACK TINNION NOW!!!

[Leabrook]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

In more than one position too!  We now have some very important players.

I beg to differ.  His impact on the team when he’s on the pitch is underestimated.  Our press / block was pretty poor early season, since Nahki has come back in, that’s changed / improved significantly…and that is the trigger to us creating chances against unstructured defences.  Our defence starts from Nahki up-top.

With Nahki on the pitch the “team” score twice as many as they concede (23 : 11).  That’s not all down to him, but it’s stark when you look at Amstrong (6 : 13) or Mayulu (4 : 7).  There’s some causation to the correlation there!

You are falling into the trap of comparing him to our other strikers.  His work off the ball is good without being great. His link up play is average, as is his finishing 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Leabrook said:

You are falling into the trap of comparing him to our other strikers.  His work off the ball is good without being great. His link up play is average, as is his finishing 

No. I’m not.  I’m judging him on what he brings to the team.  

He is arguably our most important player.  The team don’t function without him, if I want to see it so black and white.  I know it’s not though, but he is a vital cog in this team.

He most definitely isn’t the “pick of a bad bunch”.  He gets my praise on his own merits, not in relation to the other strikers.

[Cider man]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No. I’m not.  I’m judging him on what he brings to the team.  

He is arguably our most important player.  The team don’t function without him, if I want to see it so black and white.  I know it’s not though, but he is a vital cog in this team.

He most definitely isn’t the “pick of a bad bunch”.  He gets my praise on his own merits, not in relation to the other strikers.

Let's sign Matt Crooks

 

See what I did there  

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Cider man said:

Let's sign Matt Crooks

 

See what I did there  

No, what did you do?

[Cider man]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

No, what did you do?

Nevermind 

[steviestevieneville]

25 minutes ago, Cider man said:

Nevermind 

If you don’t mind me asking . Since you’ve joined you seem to have put lots of random players up from YouTube etc , on here & the transfer forum . Is there a reason for this ? Are they players that suit how we play ? 
just seems very scattergun . Anyone would think you work for city’s recruitment team 

[Cider man]

Just now, steviestevieneville said:

If you don’t mind me asking . Since you’ve joined you seem to have put lots of random players up from YouTube etc , on here & the transfer forum . Is there a reason for this ? Are they players that suit how we play ? 
just seems very scattergun . Anyone would think you work for city’s recruitment team 

Same reason as everyone else that is doing it obviously 

Not in particularly if we are pushing for the play offs we need upgrades especially at right back 

[steviestevieneville]

18 minutes ago, Cider man said:

Same reason as everyone else that is doing it obviously 

Not in particularly if we are pushing for the play offs we need upgrades especially at right back 

Well it’s not obvious or else I wouldn’t have asked would I . And others don’t post loads of players & or videos. Just thought I’d ask We don’t actually play with full backs . But we do only have one right wingback . 

[Cider man]

1 minute ago, steviestevieneville said:

Well it’s not obvious or else I wouldn’t have asked would I . And others don’t post loads of players & or videos. Just thought I’d ask We don’t actually play with full backs . But we do only have one right wingback . 

Up too them isn't it but it's quite easy too do yes the people I've mentioned all play wing back to with Scotland keeping McCrorie out the team Patterson and Ralston but as I've said Patterson wages would be a issue on loan plus there saying they won't let him go now without a replacement 

[Dastardly and Muttley]

So we have a manager who’s never enabled a striker to become a top goal scorer? Great.

[BobBobBobbin]

2 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

So we have a manager who’s never enabled a striker to become a top goal scorer? Great.

That's one way of looking at it, sure. The other is that he's consistently got midfielders like Twine, Brannagan, Rodriguez, Goodrham to score significant amounts from midfield/wide. 

It was more a comment on what fans should expect from a Manning team and who we might reasonably expect to score our goals. Mehmeti is on course for what, 17-18 goals? 

 

[Leabrook]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

No. I’m not.  I’m judging him on what he brings to the team.  

He is arguably our most important player.  The team don’t function without him, if I want to see it so black and white.  I know it’s not though, but he is a vital cog in this team.

He most definitely isn’t the “pick of a bad bunch”.  He gets my praise on his own merits, not in relation to the other strikers.

Have to agree to disagree then 

[INCRED]

What is blatantly obvious is that LM has no intention of playing a 2 up front and the set up of the team in whatever shape will always have one striker

I personally think Mayulu would benefit from Wells playing alongside him as he appears to like playing little 1-2s around the box and give and goes where as chasing across the front line and running channels to press isn’t his best attribute 

Perhaps a 3412 or 4132 shape could work as we certainly have the options in defence/midfield to play a slightly more offensive side

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, INCRED said:

Perhaps a 3412 or 4132 shape could work as we certainly have the options in defence/midfield to play a slightly more offensive side

I don’t see why the 3421 couldn’t be tweaked to lose a 10 and go with 2-up-top if we are chasing a game, for example.

[Davefevs]

26 minutes ago, Leabrook said:

Have to agree to disagree then 

Yeah, all about opinions.

[Sleepy1968]

13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t see why the 3421 couldn’t be tweaked to lose a 10 and go with 2-up-top if we are chasing a game, for example.

What was the home game where we had Fally and Sincs on together for last part of the game?

What had LM seen (or practiced for) in training that made him think it eas a good idea to try that? One would think absolutely nothing ...

 

 

[INCRED]

13 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

What was the home game where we had Fally and Sincs on together for last part of the game?

What had LM seen (or practiced for) in training that made him think it eas a good idea to try that? One would think absolutely nothing ...

 

 

I don’t see it working without Wells being one of the two up top 

[Sleepy1968]

1 minute ago, INCRED said:

I don’t see it working without Wells being one of the two up top 

Definitely. We could try it for a spell during the game, say from, I dunno, just off the top of my head, the 60th minute, by not subbing Nahki off immediately when we bring striker #2 on.

You can then give it 10-15 mins, and if it doesn't get going, sub Nahki off and revert to a one.

If it's Sam Bell that's been brought on, you can just put him out wide if it's not working.

[INCRED]

39 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t see why the 3421 couldn’t be tweaked to lose a 10 and go with 2-up-top if we are chasing a game, for example.

You can still have a 10 in both formations as the point in a diamond midfield with 2 up front and have width with wide midfielders or fullbacks pushing on either side 

 

[Red Cyril 2]

On 04/01/2025 at 20:56, Mr Popodopolous said:

Jerry Yates is a good shout, he has been on my recent long list.

He can score some Goals too, works very hard and is reasonably mobile, would bring people in as you say.

Unless the right person comes up this January who can benefit us now and medium term, perhaps to lead the attack.

Have we not shown interest in Yates before?

 

[Red Cyril 2]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t see why the 3421 couldn’t be tweaked to lose a 10 and go with 2-up-top if we are chasing a game, for example.

The formation could be flexible surely 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Sleepy1968 said:

What was the home game where we had Fally and Sincs on together for last part of the game?

What had LM seen (or practiced for) in training that made him think it eas a good idea to try that? One would think absolutely nothing ...

 

 

Dunno, but I do know we’ve had two forwards on the pitch together for just 52 minutes all season (2 mins per game on avg.)

[Solent Robin]

Why do most teams not play with 2 up front? Two reasons imo - losing control of midfield, albeit the 3-5-2 formation would negate this. However, defenders are probably happier playing against two strikers as they are easier to mark, rather than being drawn out of position by a No 10 or midfielders running in behind them. Even late in the game, when a team are seeking a winner or equaliser you are likely to be playing into defenders strengths i.e. physicality. If a team wants to build pressure, they need to retain possession to do that. Putting on another striker would more likely reduce the capability of doing that. It also depends on the type of strikers you have available to you. 

 

[DT The Optimist]

8 hours ago, Galley is our king said:

Sorry if this has already been said but the only need for this thread is the piss poor recruitment in the summer!

SACK TINNION NOW!!!

Do not want to go off topic… while I accept FM & SA have been a tad disappointing to say the least, do you not applaud the recruitment team in getting Twine, McNally, Bird, (all exceptional) and going back a bit getting Rob Dickie…our player of the season.  And there are more… 
Every club in the land has signed players who have flopped…we are not different. And we have done it before…However we may yet be surprised by FM..

Driving home after the  Derby game Gary Owers as always spoke lot sense…good pundit played  & many games… we had good run earlier on in season when we played 3 at back with wing backs, and since doing that again have seen an upturn in results….he also had the view entering the loan market for a striker who can net a few more…although it would cost…might get us in that top 6….  Is it worth spending millions on loan fees on the chance it might keep us in touching distance of the fabled play offs..I am not so sure and would stick with NW aided by SB…unless of course NW goes this window.

 

[BobBobBobbin]

6 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

Do not want to go off topic… while I accept FM & SA have been a tad disappointing to say the least, do you not applaud the recruitment team in getting Twine, McNally, Bird, (all exceptional) and going back a bit getting Rob Dickie…our player of the season.  And there are more… 
Every club in the land has signed players who have flopped…we are not different. And we have done it before…However we may yet be surprised by FM..

Driving home after the  Derby game Gary Owers as always spoke lot sense…good pundit played  & many games… we had good run earlier on in season when we played 3 at back with wing backs, and since doing that again have seen an upturn in results….he also had the view entering the loan market for a striker who can net a few more…although it would cost…might get us in that top 6….  Is it worth spending millions on loan fees on the chance it might keep us in touching distance of the fabled play offs..I am not so sure and would stick with NW aided by SB…unless of course NW goes this window.

 

To be fair anyone who's played FM knew of these players, let alone a professional recruitment team. They weren't unknowns or hidden gems. They were obvious recruitment targets.

I personally think you judge a recruitment team mostly on their gambles. Thats where they show their worth. On the players that they're picking up that nobody else is. 

I think the Yu find is a decent enough one and I am still okay with signing Armstrong because I think there's a 50:50 chance his physical attributes click with his brain to make him effective. 

Fally I'm more concerned about because I just don't see how he fits the brief, fits LM football and fits with the squad's strengths. 

Same argument could be made for Roberts who is a poor "athlete" and is particularly bad in defensive transition (the teams strength). 

You could even make a case that the "recruitment" of Manning was a sub-optimal fit with the squad too. 

The criticism of recruitment is more than just an individual player; it's about direction, long and medium term planning and consistent philosophy. Those are the parts that we are falling way short of. It's somewhat scattergun, it isn't obvious what we are trying to "build" not just for today, but for the next 3-5 seasons. 

Young, hungry and experienced isn't a recruitment philosophy that lends itself to a coherent playing style. There's a misguided feeling that any player can be plugged into a Manning team and he will get the best out of them. Same thing forced NP to change tact several times in his tenure. 

 

 

[Davefevs]

8 hours ago, Solent Robin said:

Why do most teams not play with 2 up front? Two reasons imo - losing control of midfield, albeit the 3-5-2 formation would negate this. However, defenders are probably happier playing against two strikers as they are easier to mark, rather than being drawn out of position by a No 10 or midfielders running in behind them. Even late in the game, when a team are seeking a winner or equaliser you are likely to be playing into defenders strengths i.e. physicality. If a team wants to build pressure, they need to retain possession to do that. Putting on another striker would more likely reduce the capability of doing that. It also depends on the type of strikers you have available to you. 

 

All very true.  Which is one reason why I wouldn’t sign a striker this window.

Which then digresses into questions of recruitment to Manning’s system.

Two different strikers:

• Armstrong - likes to run in to out and be found in channels , and when he does that there’s nobody bursting to get into the box (like a Weimann) .  Nor is he technical enough to play back-to-goal (nor was Antoine, hence Chris Martin)  
• Mayulu - likes the ball into feet but is reliant on players close to him to play off his first touch because he doesn’t hold off his marker Wells does a better job of that.  Mayulu isn’t going to stretch the play .

Whilst neither are hugely expensive, let’s say £3.5m for the pair and £1m p.a in wages, the value we are getting from them is well below par, and also they will create a log-jam for recruitment in terms of bodies and £££s to move them on.  It’s all well and good, OTIB saying move them on, even loan them, but it would be at a loss and that has knock on impacts, both in terms of where is your investment budget coming from, these were players earmarked to sell at more than they cost, and also the critical analysis of your recruitment process / decision making, ie release some money to buy another “dud”!  It really feels like a double whammy, not ready for now, therefore a cost now (especially if you want to replace) and maybe not gonna make money in future.

I don’t expect every signing to be a success, but as @BobBobBobbin says above, we are good at recruiting the “sure things”, but when we wander off that path, we need to be careful.  The venture abroad in the summer (and I’m guessing a lead period before) shows our recruitment capability to be immature to try to spread too thin across Europe, South America and Asia.  Not my shout, but I’d rather we tried to focus on exploiting a smaller “pond” and building understanding of that market, maybe get some people on the ground in that locale.  It is clear we didn’t understand the individual markets we tried to play in.  Tinnion talked about there being good value in Europe, but found out that whilst there is, the competition for those players is too great (e.g. Sylla), so actually those players aren’t really attainable, ie we are chasing the wrong targets, and the value isn’t there if you can’t get them.

If it does hamstring us this window, we’ve only got ourselves to blame.

=====

Back on track, I’m more of the opinion you make plan a better than deviate to plan b, or your plan a has subtle changes that it can use rather than go the whole hog of needing a plan b,

[spudski]

27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

All very true.  Which is one reason why I wouldn’t sign a striker this window.

Which then digresses into questions of recruitment to Manning’s system.

Two different strikers:

• Armstrong - likes to run in to out and be found in channels , and when he does that there’s nobody bursting to get into the box (like a Weimann) .  Nor is he technical enough to play back-to-goal (nor was Antoine, hence Chris Martin)  
• Mayulu - likes the ball into feet but is reliant on players close to him to play off his first touch because he doesn’t hold off his marker Wells does a better job of that.  Mayulu isn’t going to stretch the play .

Whilst neither are hugely expensive, let’s say £3.5m for the pair and £1m p.a in wages, the value we are getting from them is well below par, and also they will create a log-jam for recruitment in terms of bodies and £££s to move them on.  It’s all well and good, OTIB saying move them on, even loan them, but it would be at a loss and that has knock on impacts, both in terms of where is your investment budget coming from, these were players earmarked to sell at more than they cost, and also the critical analysis of your recruitment process / decision making, ie release some money to buy another “dud”!  It really feels like a double whammy, not ready for now, therefore a cost now (especially if you want to replace) and maybe not gonna make money in future.

I don’t expect every signing to be a success, but as @BobBobBobbin says above, we are good at recruiting the “sure things”, but when we wander off that path, we need to be careful.  The venture abroad in the summer (and I’m guessing a lead period before) shows our recruitment capability to be immature to try to spread too thin across Europe, South America and Asia.  Not my shout, but I’d rather we tried to focus on exploiting a smaller “pond” and building understanding of that market, maybe get some people on the ground in that locale.  It is clear we didn’t understand the individual markets we tried to play in.  Tinnion talked about there being good value in Europe, but found out that whilst there is, the competition for those players is too great (e.g. Sylla), so actually those players aren’t really attainable, ie we are chasing the wrong targets, and the value isn’t there if you can’t get them.

If it does hamstring us this window, we’ve only got ourselves to blame.

=====

Back on track, I’m more of the opinion you make plan a better than deviate to plan b, or your plan a has subtle changes that it can use rather than go the whole hog of needing a plan b,

I'm surprised we've never really ventured into Spain. 

Especially considering BT spent so much time there. 

Surely he would have built up connections? 

From memory we had Spanish acadamy coach??? a few years back, that was a connection from BT. Think he ended up in Asia. Can't remember his name. Carlos...???

Edit...found him.

Carlos Anton.

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/spanish-coach-departs-the-club/

Edit Edit...

He's now Technical Director for this lot...third in the Saudi Pro League. Few Spanish players in the squad...

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/al-qadsiah-fc/kader/verein/26069

Edited January 7 by spudski

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 hours ago, Red Cyril 2 said:

Have we not shown interest in Yates before?

 

Rings a bell, sure we were linked..summer 2023 but could've just been paper talk or wish lists on here.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-transfer-rumours-yates-8459942

Yes we were linked.

Edited January 7 by Mr Popodopolous

[spudski]

After going down a rabbit hole I was surprised that 56% of Championship players are non English. Thought it was less for some reason.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/gastarbeiter/wettbewerb/GB2