Academy Again

[Guest ashtonyate]

Yet again we have got another young 20 year old come to the club for cover I think its shamfull that a club with an academy has to bring young player to fill the gap.The club has over the past few years got a lot of youngster in, that the academy should be producing come on Gary get your axe out.

[gazareth]

I get the feeling that you don't like the Academy.

[Guest Frank]

Yet again we have got another young 20 year old come to the club for cover I think its shamfull that a club with an academy has to bring young player to fill the gap.The club has over the past few years got a lot of youngster in, that the academy should be producing come on Gary get your axe out.

I notice Charlton buy players in too rather than use all the young players at their disposal. Perhaps they should get rid of their Academy too.

Let's ask Curbishley if that's a good idea. Of course you probably know more about it then him I guess.

[Robbored]

Yet again we have got another young 20 year old come to the club for cover I think its shamfull that a club with an academy has to bring young player to fill the gap.The club has over the past few years got a lot of youngster in, that the academy should be producing come on Gary get your axe out.

Good grief! you really are a "Johnny one thread".Try expanding your mind a little...

[Rich-TWSC-]

Yet again we have got another young 20 year old come to the club for cover I think its shamfull that a club with an academy has to bring young player to fill the gap.The club has over the past few years got a lot of youngster in, that the academy should be producing come on Gary get your axe out.

Despite your constant bashing of your teams academy, I don't think you're completely wrong on this one.

It does seem odd to bring in inexperienced youngsters when you have a whole set-up like an academy.

I guess you could have brought in experience for a month to cover.

[robins72]

I take it that Johnson isnt or doesnt feel that the players in the acadamy are ready to put in defence at the moment. If this guy is as good as Sofa I wont be disappointed.

[Guest ashtonyate]

I notice Charlton buy players in too rather than use all the young players at their disposal. Perhaps they should get rid of their Academy too.

Let's ask Curbishley if that's a good idea. Of course you probably know more about it then him I guess.

The differents between our academy and Charltons is Charlton is in the premership which is lot higher stander

City are in the third and there fore a lower standard easer to play in.

[Guest]

[Guest ashtonyate]

I told you I don't play records just dvds have you got a spell checker yet

[Rocky]

Where's that "ignore user" option

[Guest ziderfarmer]

The differents between our academy and Charltons is Charlton is in the premership which is lot higher stander

City are in the third and there fore a lower standard easer to play in.

hang on i thought we are in the same academy league as them?

rememberthere was an up roar bout it cos wehad the requirement the fa wanted butcos we were div 2 they didnt want us in it but had no choice?

its the reserves that make the difference these two charlton lads are reserve players in a year or two if they don't make the grade they might remember city givingthem a chance and join us.

a certain andrew cole if i remember correctly

[Guest wed wobin]

I told you I don't play records just dvds have you got a spell checker yet

Think your the last person to be mentioning spell checkers, go and have a look at some of your recent posts.

[Guest mike11]

Yet again we have got another young 20 year old come to the club for cover I think its shamfull that a club with an academy has to bring young player to fill the gap.The club has over the past few years got a lot of youngster in, that the academy should be producing come on Gary get your axe out.

What took you so long Ashton?You should have started this thread yesterday at the latest.You,re slipping mate.

[bh_red]

Yet again we have got another young 20 year old come to the club for cover I think its shamfull that a club with an academy has to bring young player to fill the gap.The club has over the past few years got a lot of youngster in, that the academy should be producing come on Gary get your axe out.

Yes we have an Academy a very good one , but we have brought in another Left Back, because our Current Left Back who is a very good player who has just come through the Academy is Scott Golbourne who is INJURED and has progressed through the Academy and also played at various levels for England, which proves on it's own that it is capable of producing VERY good players!!!

Incase you haven't noticed as well, Dave Cotterill, another Academy Product has this week earned his first full Wales cap, which is another sign of how good the academy is at producing players.

I'm sure there is another good left back at the club in the Academy, but at the moment we have a New Manager who is still trying to asses the un-achevining first team at present, so hasn't had the time to look at what academy youngsters to push up for the 1st Team, so he has instead done the wise thing and brought in a player he has previously looked at as a stop gap.

but in a nutshell this has all been proved before, and shows that you are just on a pointless one man mission to get shot of the academy.

BUT........perhaps if you actually watched some reserve games you will see that our current young players are very good, but some are just not ready yet.

YOU have NO EXCUSES NOT TO WATCH THE RESERVES! It's £3 to get in and usually held during the day and as we all know you have not got a job so I'm sure you have the time to watch them.

GOOD DAY!

[Guest ashtonyate]

Yes we have an Academy a very good one , but we have brought in another Left Back, because our Current Left Back who is a very good player who has just come through the Academy is Scott Golbourne who is INJURED and has progressed through the Academy and also played at various levels for England, which proves on it's own that it is capable of producing VERY good players!!!

Incase you haven't noticed as well, Dave Cotterill, another Academy Product has this week earned his first full Wales cap, which is another sign of how good the academy is at producing players.

I'm sure there is another good left back at the club in the Academy, but at the moment we have a New Manager who is still trying to asses the un-achevining first team at present, so hasn't had the time to look at what academy youngsters to push up for the 1st Team, so he has instead done the wise thing and brought in a player he has previously looked at as a stop gap.

but in a nutshell this has all been proved before, and shows that you are just on a pointless one man mission to get shot of the academy.

BUT........perhaps if you actually watched some reserve games you will see that our current young players are very good, but some are just not ready yet.

YOU have NO EXCUSES NOT TO WATCH THE RESERVES! It's £3 to get in and usually held during the day and as we all know you have not got a job so I'm sure you have the time to watch them.

GOOD DAY!

So after after 7 years of academy we can only offer 1 full back Scott Golbourn did you know Colin Skuse was the only player to be taken on by the Club in his year.

As for Cotterill getting a Wales cap good luck to him, but have you seen their squad if you can play football and have a pulse your in.I do not watch the reserves its hard enough to get the money to watch the first team.I still say if we have got to bring all these young players in as cover What the hell have we got an academy for.???

[rayer]

So after after 7 years of academy we can only offer 1 full back Scott Golbourn did you know Colin Skuse was the only player to be taken on by the Club in his year.

As for Cotterill getting a Wales cap good luck to him, but have you seen their squad if you can play football and have a pulse your in.I do not watch the reserves its hard enough to get the money to watch the first team.I still say if we have got to bring all these young players in as cover What the hell have we got an academy for.???

Da vid is welsh, and alive with a pulse, but he hasnt got time to play football. No one understands what its like for him being the only gay in the village.

[bh_red]

So after after 7 years of academy we can only offer 1 full back Scott Golbourn did you know Colin Skuse was the only player to be taken on by the Club in his year.

As for Cotterill getting a Wales cap good luck to him, but have you seen their squad if you can play football and have a pulse your in.I do not watch the reserves its hard enough to get the money to watch the first team.I still say if we have got to bring all these young players in as cover What the hell have we got an academy for.???

I see there squad, and it's not as bad as it used to be, and the quality was still too good for the likes of Christian Roberts to get a game. Though as you say I suppose Cotterill is obviously rubbish, hence why the likes of Man U, Arsenal and Newcastle have been watching which was why we extended his contract???

after 7 years we have produced many a player that can play at full back, but certain managers haven't liked these players Full Back's that spring to mind are, Joe Burnell who started at right back, Amankwaah, Matt Hill, Fortune and Craig Woodman, Woodman has currently been playing and has played many a game for City, Matt Hill is playing at a higher level, Amankwaah needed a move and is playing in our league and Joe Burnell was boo'd by fans till he decided to move.

The Academy WORKS! it's provided the team with plenty of quality players and will continue to do so for many a year, all the managers in recent years have supported and make good use of it, Such as Benny Lennnartson, Fawthorp, Wilson, Tinnion and Johnson.

Johnson has said that having the Academy at the club is part of what attracted him to City and with the correct bit of "fine-tuning" being a former Academy Director himself will bring on more and more players for many a year to come.

Though I suppose you would rather see more Journeymen coming to the club like Ian Baird, Lee Peacock, Tony Thorpe, who take the money whose losing us tons of cash, than have local players we can produce and move into the first team.

Still you don't actually watch Bristol City so how you can judge whether these players are any good!

if you don't like what City are doing? I suggest Yate Town maybe? Local football, cheaper prices and surely just as exciting!

[Guest ashtonyate]

I see there squad, and it's not as bad as it used to be, and the quality was still too good for the likes of Christian Roberts to get a game. Though as you say I suppose Cotterill is obviously rubbish, hence why the likes of Man U, Arsenal and Newcastle have been watching which was why we extended his contract???

after 7 years we have produced many a player that can play at full back, but certain managers haven't liked these players Full Back's that spring to mind are, Joe Burnell who started at right back, Amankwaah, Matt Hill, Fortune and Craig Woodman, Woodman has currently been playing and has played many a game for City, Matt Hill is playing at a higher level, Amankwaah needed a move and is playing in our league and Joe Burnell was boo'd by fans till he decided to move.

The Academy WORKS! it's provided the team with plenty of quality players and will continue to do so for many a year, all the managers in recent years have supported and make good use of it, Such as Benny Lennnartson, Fawthorp, Wilson, Tinnion and Johnson.

Johnson has said that having the Academy at the club is part of what attracted him to City and with the correct bit of "fine-tuning" being a former Academy Director himself will bring on more and more players for many a year to come.

Though I suppose you would rather see more Journeymen coming to the club like Ian Baird, Lee Peacock, Tony Thorpe, who take the money whose losing us tons of cash, than have local players we can produce and move into the first team.

Still you don't actually watch Bristol City so how you can judge whether these players are any good!

if you don't like what City are doing? I suggest Yate Town maybe? Local football, cheaper prices and surely just as exciting!

Well you may think they are quality player I think most of the players we have produced could have been pick up at exit trials at no expence at all other than wages.

If you class player like scott brown and Bradley Orr as journeymen then thats ok as for cotterill yes prehaps Man U are looking at him like they do with loads of players I still watch the City not all the time but enough to know whats what.

[The Fat Controller]

Did the academy reject you or something Ashtonyate?

[bh_red]

No it doesn't, we have picked up players from other clubs in the past using the old exit trails, players such as Rodney McAree and Scott Patterson spring to mind! Total Garbage. whereas it's easy to say recently how we have got lucky with some players such as Orr and Scott Brown, but Brown was rejected at first, and Orr has only recently found a home at Right Back, until then everyone has said he is a bad signing.

Orr and Brown though are not classed as journeymen, I'm talking about big money signings that have come with big reputations like Baird, Steve Jones, Thorpe and Peacock who have been signed over the years for alot of money, and have had no return at all.

The Academy itself has produced many talented players such as Hill, A Brown, Coles, Rosenior, Burnell, Fortune, Woodman, Golbourne, Cotterill, Skuse, Amankwaah, Lita, Harley and others.

These are all players that have performed for the club some for a few games so far and look bright prospects and others have performed well for the club and been sold on for very Good money, others have performed well gone stale and are playing well at other clubs where they have Sell-on fees and could gain us cash in the future. Other players have performed very well then been mis-managed and left for nothing or peanuts.

Either way......The Academy itself is contstantly churning out players good enough for the first team and With Gary Johnson in charge will continue to do so. The main problem is that the board have mis-manged them once they have reached the 1st Team, either by letting go with "dodgy" agents who throw silly realease clauses into the contracts and let them leave for peanuts, turning down big money bids for players and let them letting their contract's run out and in crazy circumstance letting their contract run out and then not posting the renewal offer out quick enough in the post.

But the point it.......THE ACADEMY IS PRODUCING THE GOODS and is constantly proving to be worth the expense. Hence the constant investment into it and now that they actually have decent training facilities the quality of players will no doubt continue to improve as they have so far.

[Guest ashtonyate]

No it doesn't, we have picked up players from other clubs in the past using the old exit trails, players such as Rodney McAree and Scott Patterson spring to mind! Total Garbage. whereas it's easy to say recently how we have got lucky with some players such as Orr and Scott Brown, but Brown was rejected at first, and Orr has only recently found a home at Right Back, until then everyone has said he is a bad signing.

Orr and Brown though are not classed as journeymen, I'm talking about big money signings that have come with big reputations like Baird, Steve Jones, Thorpe and Peacock who have been signed over the years for alot of money, and have had no return at all.

The Academy itself has produced many talented players such as Hill, A Brown, Coles, Rosenior, Burnell, Fortune, Woodman, Golbourne, Cotterill, Skuse, Amankwaah, Lita, Harley and others.

These are all players that have performed for the club some for a few games so far and look bright prospects and others have performed well for the club and been sold on for very Good money, others have performed well gone stale and are playing well at other clubs where they have Sell-on fees and could gain us cash in the future. Other players have performed very well then been mis-managed and left for nothing or peanuts.

Either way......The Academy itself is contstantly churning out players good enough for the first team and With Gary Johnson in charge will continue to do so. The main problem is that the board have mis-manged them once they have reached the 1st Team, either by letting go with "dodgy" agents who throw silly realease clauses into the contracts and let them leave for peanuts, turning down big money bids for players and let them letting their contract's run out and in crazy circumstance letting their contract run out and then not posting the renewal offer out quick enough in the post.

But the point it.......THE ACADEMY IS PRODUCING THE GOODS and is constantly proving to be worth the expense. Hence the constant investment into it and now that they actually have decent training facilities the quality of players will no doubt continue to improve as they have so far.

THE ACADEMY IS PRODUCING THE GOODS I don't think so What they are producing is a player that you could pick up with a good scouting system

The main problem is that the board have mis-manged them once they have reached the 1st Team, either by letting go with "dodgy" agents who throw silly realease clauses Do you think the club has a say in who a player agent is

[CiderHider]

Did the academy reject you or something Ashtonyate?

Just what i was thinking, but rejected as a player or the Academy Director?

[Sparko]

I seem to remember watching a programme which said that only clubs with academies can pick up players from exit trials. Therefore, we would never have been able to pick up Lita, Clist , Fortune, Gillespie and whoever else we've picked up over recent years.

[bcfcchris2016]

ashtonyate, why don't you just give the bloody Academy a rest. Most clubs in our league or maybe even a few in the Championship would Die to have a Acadmey like Bristol Citys. It has costed us money yes. But it is all worth it. Leroy Litas transfer to Reading gave the club 1-Million and have developed such good youngsters like Brown, Hill, Cotterill, Rosenior, Golbourne.

just because you have nothing to moan about because City our playing so well does not mean to say you can start an arguement about the academy.

just let it be

[Guest ashtonyate]

ashtonyate, why don't you just give the bloody Academy a rest. Most clubs in our league or maybe even a few in the Championship would Die to have a Acadmey like Bristol Citys. It has costed us money yes. But it is all worth it. Leroy Litas transfer to Reading gave the club 1-Million and have developed such good youngsters like Brown, Hill, Cotterill, Rosenior, Golbourne.

just because you have nothing to moan about because City our playing so well does not mean to say you can start an arguement about the academy.

just let it be

Look At what you wrote the players you have put foward may be the best of 7 years academy that is poor reward for all the money and effort the club has put in.As for most of the Clubs in our division and the first dieing for an academy they may die but not for the academy but for the cost

[kiwicolin]

change the record ashtonyate.

you go down to the academy and

tell the youngsters that the academy is no good

and we will close it.it not only teaches them to play football

but they get a dam good education.look at the results

they have had.

the academy MUST STAY.

[Redtucks]

Ashtonyate,

You continue to pedal this line over and over again.

Very few, if any, on this forum agree with you.

However, many posters on here have gritted their teeth and continued to repeatedly explain to you the benefits of the academy.

A long list of academy graduates that have made it to first team level with Bristol City and to even higher levels with other clubs have been quoted to you.

Many of these we have received tranfer fees for and no doubt we will receive even more from their respective sell-on clauses, not to mention even more from future graduates.

Despite all of this, you seem totally unconvinced by any of the arguments put forward and continue to plough your own depressing furrow.

In my view you are either incredibly stubborn or incredibly stupid.

You are, however, obviously entitled to your opinion, but I feel you are trying the patience of the majority of this forum.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Ashtonyate,

You continue to pedal this line over and over again.

Very few, if any, on this forum agree with you.

However, many posters on here have gritted their teeth and continued to repeatedly explain to you the benefits of the academy.

A long list of academy graduates that have made it to first team level with Bristol City and to even higher levels with other clubs have been quoted to you.

Many of these we have received tranfer fees for and no doubt we will receive even more from their respective sell-on clauses, not to mention even more from future graduates.

Despite all of this, you seem totally unconvinced by any of the arguments put forward and continue to plough your own depressing furrow.

In my view you are either incredibly stubborn or incredibly stupid.

You are, however, obviously entitled to your opinion, but I feel you are trying the patience of the majority of this forum.

Sorry I have upset you with this post perhap i should post things like what songs should we sing tomorrow what should we call johnson .

No I say as I see it, and where is this long list of top players we have produced, after 7 years and about 5 million pounds of having an academy where are they

I am stubborn and may be stupid, but I am not blind its the Kings new clothes with you lot if you keep telling yourself the academy is great you will belive it.I can see past all that crap the really truth its been a waste of money.

[Nibor]

The thing is whenever anyone presents coherent arguments as to why you're wrong you ignore them, which is why I struggle to believe that you are somehow enlightened and the rest of us are thick.

Nibor

[Redtucks]

Sorry I have upset you with this post perhap i should post things like what songs should we sing tomorrow what should we call johnson .

No I say as I see it, and where is this long list of top players we have produced, after 7 years and about 5 million pounds of having an academy where are they

I am stubborn and may be stupid, but I am not blind its the Kings new clothes with you lot if you keep telling yourself the academy is great you will belive it.I can see past all that crap the really truth its been a waste of money.

You haven't upset me with your posts.

"Bored me" is a more accurate description.

I can't be bothered to go through it all again, as numerous others already have, obviously to no avail.

Suffice if I just make two points:

1. A fifth of the 5 million pounds that you quote was recouped less than 3 months ago by the sale of only ONE PLAYER!!!! If that player continues to progress, even more money could result from the sell on clause.

2. Only last week another player from the academy became the youngest full international for Wales, beating the previous record held by Ryan Giggs.

I wonder if there was an "Old Trafford Yate" calling for their academy to be scapped 15 years ago???

[Guest ashtonyate]

The thing is whenever anyone presents coherent arguments as to why you're wrong you ignore them, which is why I struggle to believe that you are somehow enlightened and the rest of us are thick.

Nibor

I really have not seen a coherent argument If you want to put a point to point argument to me we will go through it step by step only one point at a time and i will do my best to answer each point

[bcfcchris2016]

why don't you just accept that very few if not nobody agrees with any of your posts concerning the Academy. This is getting ever so boring. Leave the Academy alone pal, It's not killing anybody. If you carry on like this. I'll Ignore you and i am sure i won't be the only person.

[Guest ashtonyate]

why don't you just accept that very few if not nobody agrees with any of your posts concerning the Academy. This is getting ever so boring. Leave the Academy alone pal, It's not killing anybody. If you carry on like this. I'll Ignore you and i am sure i won't be the only person.

Its not killing any body it could finish the club off its costing the club 675k to run pal

[Guest C.T.I.D]

Yet again we have got another young 20 year old come to the club for cover I think its shamfull that a club with an academy has to bring young player to fill the gap.The club has over the past few years got a lot of youngster in, that the academy should be producing come on Gary get your axe out.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

not again

[Nibor]

I really have not seen a coherent argument If you want to put a point to point argument to me we will go through it step by step only one point at a time and i will do my best to answer each point

OK let's try and make this one last time then.

First off the academy's job is to produce good young players. It isn't responsible for their contracts, their transfer fees, or the success of the first team.

It needs to do this as cheaply as possible, or it would be cheaper to just buy players.

So lets look at the players it's produced who have played in the first team:

Kevin Amankwaah - good enough for this division

Craig Woodman - good enough for this division

Liam Rosenior - playing in the prem

Aaron Brown - good enough for this division

Joe Anyinsah - will eventually play in the championship

Danny Coles - playing (apart from injury) in the championship

Matt Hill - playing in the championship

Cole Skuse - good enough for this division and potential to be much better

Dave Cotterill - excellent potential representing Wales

Scott Golbourne - excellent potential and representing England

Ryan Harley - may well make an impact later this season

Clayton Fortune - good enough for this division

Joe Burnell - good enough for this division

Leroy Lita - playing in the championship, may play in the prem

These are probably the success stories of the academy - the players who have been made available to the first team as a result of the academy. There have been others who haven't made the grade and are playing at a lower level.

There are more coming through as well, Danny Wring, Elliott Benyon, Jennison Williams and Shaun Lamb are all highly regarded I think though I haven't personally watched them.

We've had an academy for 7 years and if it costs 600k a season on average then it's total cost has been £4.2m so far. That's without taking into account the money we generate specifically for the academy through sponsorships that we wouldnt get if we didn't have one. I'd guess this brings us to about £500k a year (or £3.5m total) but there's no hard figures for this so it's a total guess.

From the players listed above we've received transfer fees totalling around £1.5 million (some were undisclosed) with more to come through sell ons and other clauses. Had we sold certain players like Coles and Fortune at better times, and not buggered up Rosenior's contract offer we could be looking at near twice that.

So that's less than £2 million to produce 14 players (2 a season) good enough for this level and in some cases much better. It could have been less than a million were our transfer dealings a bit more astute.

The players we get from the academy seem expensive at 150k each until you consider that they're probably costing us less than half what a signing would in wages, and there's the potential for more money if we have to sell.

Would you rather have 4 players from the list above or one Lee Peacock? 2 of them or one Lee Miller? Dare I mention some of Pulis' signings? I don't think that if we had spent an extra £2m over 7 years on transfer fees instead of the academy we'd be any better off than we are now, I think we'd have had a worse team and a bigger wage bill. Our record with signings would seem to support that over the time the academy has been in existence.

Therefore I reckon the academy is a good investment, and gets a better one every year as costs go down and quality of players goes up.

Some other points:-

Danny Wilson's team in 03/04 which made the playoff final and just failed in that one game was comprised largely of academy players. They were good enough to go up and indeed several of them did just not with us.

Consider Charlton's academy - they got £10m for Scott Parker, enough to fund ours for 20 years. If you don't have one you don't have the chance of finding that gem. Do you think we'd have players like Cotterill who might well recoup most of our investment in one transfer fee in the future if we didn't have an academy?

We have to run a centre of excellence if we don't run an academy. It costs less but it doesn't represent a massive saving. It also means less coaches, no structured match program and is less attractive to youngsters.

And lastly the sentimental reason. The crowd love a local hero, the kid come good. They love to see one of their own being successful with their club, and it gives us a certain pride. It's nice to lord it over Rovers too

Anyway... over to you Ashtonyate.

Nibor

[Guest ashtonyate]

OK let's try and make this one last time then.

First off the academy's job is to produce good young players. It isn't responsible for their contracts, their transfer fees, or the success of the first team.

It needs to do this as cheaply as possible, or it would be cheaper to just buy players.

So lets look at the players it's produced who have played in the first team:

Kevin Amankwaah - good enough for this division

Craig Woodman - good enough for this division

Liam Rosenior - playing in the prem

Aaron Brown - good enough for this division

Joe Anyinsah - will eventually play in the championship

Danny Coles - playing (apart from injury) in the championship

Matt Hill - playing in the championship

Cole Skuse - good enough for this division and potential to be much better

Dave Cotterill - excellent potential representing Wales

Scott Golbourne - excellent potential and representing England

Ryan Harley - may well make an impact later this season

Clayton Fortune - good enough for this division

Joe Burnell - good enough for this division

Leroy Lita - playing in the championship, may play in the prem

These are probably the success stories of the academy - the players who have been made available to the first team as a result of the academy. There have been others who haven't made the grade and are playing at a lower level.

There are more coming through as well, Danny Wring, Elliott Benyon, Jennison Williams and Shaun Lamb are all highly regarded I think though I haven't personally watched them.

We've had an academy for 7 years and if it costs 600k a season on average then it's total cost has been £4.2m so far. That's without taking into account the money we generate specifically for the academy through sponsorships that we wouldnt get if we didn't have one. I'd guess this brings us to about £500k a year (or £3.5m total) but there's no hard figures for this so it's a total guess.

From the players listed above we've received transfer fees totalling around £1.5 million (some were undisclosed) with more to come through sell ons and other clauses. Had we sold certain players like Coles and Fortune at better times, and not buggered up Rosenior's contract offer we could be looking at near twice that.

So that's less than £2 million to produce 14 players (2 a season) good enough for this level and in some cases much better. It could have been less than a million were our transfer dealings a bit more astute.

The players we get from the academy seem expensive at 150k each until you consider that they're probably costing us less than half what a signing would in wages, and there's the potential for more money if we have to sell.

Would you rather have 4 players from the list above or one Lee Peacock? 2 of them or one Lee Miller? Dare I mention some of Pulis' signings? I don't think that if we had spent an extra £2m over 7 years on transfer fees instead of the academy we'd be any better off than we are now, I think we'd have had a worse team and a bigger wage bill. Our record with signings would seem to support that over the time the academy has been in existence.

Therefore I reckon the academy is a good investment, and gets a better one every year as costs go down and quality of players goes up.

Some other points:-

Danny Wilson's team in 03/04 which made the playoff final and just failed in that one game was comprised largely of academy players. They were good enough to go up and indeed several of them did just not with us.

Consider Charlton's academy - they got £10m for Scott Parker, enough to fund ours for 20 years. If you don't have one you don't have the chance of finding that gem. Do you think we'd have players like Cotterill who might well recoup most of our investment in one transfer fee in the future if we didn't have an academy?

We have to run a centre of excellence if we don't run an academy. It costs less but it doesn't represent a massive saving. It also means less coaches, no structured match program and is less attractive to youngsters.

And lastly the sentimental reason. The crowd love a local hero, the kid come good. They love to see one of their own being successful with their club, and it gives us a certain pride. It's nice to lord it over Rovers too

Anyway... over to you Ashtonyate.

Nibor

As you said in your very impressive post 6 or so of the list are good enough to play in this division, Fourtune

I still think wont make it, but young players of that standard are easy to pick up IE Bradley Orr, Gillispy,Scott Brown, Keone, The player that left the club Coles Docerty and even Hill were not of that high a standard.

I suppose Lita & Rosenior are the best players the academy has produced and they are good standard players, but thats about it the rest are all a bit lack lusterd

As for the new bunch yes at this moment in time they seem to be a better standard only time will tell and if they will sign contract without get out clauses in them, because its no good saying the academy has done its job if we cant afford to sign the end product, because we have paid for them to go through the academy

As for the cost Lansdown said some time ago that when the academy was first opened it was costing the Club over a million pounds a year to run but now it has been got down to 645k a year so i don't what it has cost the club over the years

I am still not sure that the bristol area is a hot bed of talent going on past reconning over the last 20 years or the area has produced a hand full of premershipe/first div talent

A centre of Excellence would have been the road to have gone down at a third of the cost to the club but this post started by me saying that a club with a academy should not have to bring in 20 year old from other clubs it shows how strong our academy is when it has to do that.

[Guest Ron]

Bet you were there cheering when Stewart went to Rovers, Ashtonyate?

[Guest Bristolface]

I seem to remember watching a programme which said that only clubs with academies can pick up players from exit trials. Therefore, we would never have been able to pick up Lita, Clist , Fortune, Gillespie and whoever else we've picked up over recent years.

Oh bugger you just stole my thunder was going to say that, if we did not have our great academy we not attract players of Lita's quality to ashton gate and they would go to another club with a academy, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it ashtonyate. And stop sounding like a little boy who's rattle has fallen out of his pushchair.

[bh_red]

Why waste of our breath on him, he is just a sad little twisted pathetic old man, who is bitter that he can't go anymore.

get a life.

I'm now going to select to ignore all his post as they waste our time!

Funny though how he can't afford to go to the matches, but can afford a PC and constant Internet access!!!!

[Redtucks]

OK let's try and make this one last time then.

First off the academy's job is to produce good young players. It isn't responsible for their contracts, their transfer fees, or the success of the first team.

It needs to do this as cheaply as possible, or it would be cheaper to just buy players.

So lets look at the players it's produced who have played in the first team:

Kevin Amankwaah - good enough for this division

Craig Woodman - good enough for this division

Liam Rosenior - playing in the prem

Aaron Brown - good enough for this division

Joe Anyinsah - will eventually play in the championship

Danny Coles - playing (apart from injury) in the championship

Matt Hill - playing in the championship

Cole Skuse - good enough for this division and potential to be much better

Dave Cotterill - excellent potential representing Wales

Scott Golbourne - excellent potential and representing England

Ryan Harley - may well make an impact later this season

Clayton Fortune - good enough for this division

Joe Burnell - good enough for this division

Leroy Lita - playing in the championship, may play in the prem

These are probably the success stories of the academy - the players who have been made available to the first team as a result of the academy. There have been others who haven't made the grade and are playing at a lower level.

There are more coming through as well, Danny Wring, Elliott Benyon, Jennison Williams and Shaun Lamb are all highly regarded I think though I haven't personally watched them.

We've had an academy for 7 years and if it costs 600k a season on average then it's total cost has been £4.2m so far. That's without taking into account the money we generate specifically for the academy through sponsorships that we wouldnt get if we didn't have one. I'd guess this brings us to about £500k a year (or £3.5m total) but there's no hard figures for this so it's a total guess.

From the players listed above we've received transfer fees totalling around £1.5 million (some were undisclosed) with more to come through sell ons and other clauses. Had we sold certain players like Coles and Fortune at better times, and not buggered up Rosenior's contract offer we could be looking at near twice that.

So that's less than £2 million to produce 14 players (2 a season) good enough for this level and in some cases much better. It could have been less than a million were our transfer dealings a bit more astute.

The players we get from the academy seem expensive at 150k each until you consider that they're probably costing us less than half what a signing would in wages, and there's the potential for more money if we have to sell.

Would you rather have 4 players from the list above or one Lee Peacock? 2 of them or one Lee Miller? Dare I mention some of Pulis' signings? I don't think that if we had spent an extra £2m over 7 years on transfer fees instead of the academy we'd be any better off than we are now, I think we'd have had a worse team and a bigger wage bill. Our record with signings would seem to support that over the time the academy has been in existence.

Therefore I reckon the academy is a good investment, and gets a better one every year as costs go down and quality of players goes up.

Some other points:-

Danny Wilson's team in 03/04 which made the playoff final and just failed in that one game was comprised largely of academy players. They were good enough to go up and indeed several of them did just not with us.

Consider Charlton's academy - they got £10m for Scott Parker, enough to fund ours for 20 years. If you don't have one you don't have the chance of finding that gem. Do you think we'd have players like Cotterill who might well recoup most of our investment in one transfer fee in the future if we didn't have an academy?

We have to run a centre of excellence if we don't run an academy. It costs less but it doesn't represent a massive saving. It also means less coaches, no structured match program and is less attractive to youngsters.

And lastly the sentimental reason. The crowd love a local hero, the kid come good. They love to see one of their own being successful with their club, and it gives us a certain pride. It's nice to lord it over Rovers too

Anyway... over to you Ashtonyate.

Nibor

Nibor,

I congratulate you on a superb post.

Unfortunately, I feel it is totally wasted as the guy obviously has a closed mind.

Well done for your efforts anyway.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Oh bugger you just stole my thunder was going to say that, if we did not have our great academy we not attract players of Lita's quality to ashton gate and they would go to another club with a academy, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it ashtonyate. And stop sounding like a little boy who's rattle has fallen out of his pushchair.

I cant afford to smoke, so after 7 years of the academy our greatest player so far is lita who had to be sold to help cover the debt the academy has run up great, Its me sounding like a little boy ok not the rest who cannot put up a good argument in the academy favour

[rumbellow]

I cant afford to smoke, so after 7 years of the academy our greatest player so far is lita who had to be sold to help cover the debt the academy has run up great, Its me sounding like a little boy ok not the rest who cannot put up a good argument in the academy favour

Question to Ashtonhate:-What do you get for £600,000 a season, answer = Lee Peacock::::::::::::::::::And thank god he was'nt here in the early hours of wednesday, it would have been a full blown riot.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Question to Ashtonhate:-What do you get for £600,000 a season, answer = Lee Peacock::::::::::::::::::And thank god he was'nt here in the early hours of wednesday, it would have been a full blown riot.

Thats City fault for not doing there home work but you can buy well if you use your head.Johnson seems to know what he is doing.

[Guest smp]

"You have chosen to ignore all posts from: ashtonyate.

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· Un-ignore ashtonyate"

Ahh, good ol' Ignore button.

[bh_red]

Thats City fault for not doing there home work but you can buy well if you use your head.Johnson seems to know what he is doing.

Yes which means he will continue to use players from the academy as they develop.

NICE to you are tucked up at home and didn't go to the match AGAIN today. Better of that way, in other news Elliott Benyon another up and coming academy youngster scored again today in another excellent result for our youth teams.

I recommend you go along and watch, it's free entrance and you will enjoy yourself and get some fresh air rather than be sat behind your PC 24/7 hammering the club for thinking of the future.

Lita, Brown, Gillespie, Orr............all players from Premiership Exit trials and clubs with Academys can look at them FIRST............so if it wasn't for having a academy we would have been fighting many other clubs for them!...............but your too narrow minded to realise that!

GET A GRIP on life!!

[Brianred]

Nibor,

I congratulate you on a superb post.

Unfortunately, I feel it is totally wasted as the guy obviously has a closed mind.

Well done for your efforts anyway.

So Redtucks can you tell me where we are in the league with all the up and coming academy? we are a nursery for other clubs!!

[Guest Frank]

Its me sounding like a little boy ok not the rest who cannot put up a good argument in the academy favour

If you can't be bothered to read the responses to your posts then don't expect anyone to do you the courtesy of reading yours. There have been plenty of decent arguments in favour of the academy. Just because you're too rude/ignorant/dim to read them doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Guest loader_red]

If you can't be bothered to read the responses to your posts then don't expect anyone to do you the courtesy of reading yours. There have been plenty of decent arguments in favour of the academy. Just because you're too rude/ignorant/dim to read them doesn't mean they don't exist.

Amen to that .....

[Guest pentlandsl]

"You have chosen to ignore all posts from: ashtonyate.

· View this post

· Un-ignore ashtonyate"

Ahh, good ol' Ignore button.

I can't find an ignore button - where is it? this guy is an absolute dead loss, asks for a backup to someone's argument, gets it in Spades and then asks for it again - he really is off his trolly and I would dearly love to 'IGNORE' this guy! (Ashtonyate I mean!)

[Sir Colby-Tit]

did you know Colin Skuse was the only player to be taken on by the Club in his year.

No he wasn't, his brother Cole was also taken on

[Brianred]

No he wasn't, his brother Cole was also taken on

At least that wasn't an EX

[The Fat Controller]

Just what i was thinking, but rejected as a player or the Academy Director?

One after the other maybe?

Abandonment issues?

[Guest ashtonyate]

Yes which means he will continue to use players from the academy as they develop.

NICE to you are tucked up at home and didn't go to the match AGAIN today. Better of that way, in other news Elliott Benyon another up and coming academy youngster scored again today in another excellent result for our youth teams.

I recommend you go along and watch, it's free entrance and you will enjoy yourself and get some fresh air rather than be sat behind your PC 24/7 hammering the club for thinking of the future.

Lita, Brown, Gillespie, Orr............all players from Premiership Exit trials and clubs with Academys can look at them FIRST............so if it wasn't for having a academy we would have been fighting many other clubs for them!...............but your too narrow minded to realise that!

GET A GRIP on life!!

Lita, Brown, Gillespie, Orr............all players from Premiership Exit trials and clubs with Academys can look at them FIRST............so if it wasn't for having a academy we would have been fighting many other clubs

Rubbish any club can go and get players from exit trials you don't need an academy,I get told i don't read post this has been said by me loads of times

You don't need an academy to go to exit trails the words may give you a ideal EXIT TRAILS

[greenun]

Lita, Brown, Gillespie, Orr............all players from Premiership Exit trials and clubs with Academys can look at them FIRST............so if it wasn't for having a academy we would have been fighting many other clubs

Rubbish any club can go and get players from exit trials you don't need an academy,I get told i don't read post this has been said by me loads of times

You don't need an academy to go to exit trails the words may give you a ideal EXIT TRAILS

AshtonYate, were yours the dulcid tones I heard emanating from my wireless, on Twentyman Talks Back (sans Twentyman, but with the Boy Durden, as my learned colleague MaloneFM calls him) yesterday evening?

Was yours the moniker, 'Mike from Yate'?

It's just that that particular caller stated that he habitated that town in South Gloucestershire, couldn't attend many home games and wanted to talk abot the err......

The ummmmmmm.

Hell, I've forgotten.

Hang on, it was a particular favourite of yours.

Was that you?

Please tell me?

Thanks, Mark.

[Guest ashtonyate]

One after the other maybe?

Abandonment issues?

No just someone who see his team spending shed loads of money on something that they don't have to with no great reward of talent

A center of excellance would be the thing we could afford better and still pick up local talent as well as exit trailest that should provide us with all the young players we should need.

Fan don't seem to understand it takes around 3,000 season ticket holders to service the academy debt ever year our debts go up. One day it will have to be payed for,god only knows how much we owe after we got Johnson in as the new boss,money well spent but whos going to pay the bill in the end.We must start liven with in our means.

[Redtucks]

So Redtucks can you tell me where we are in the league with all the up and coming academy? we are a nursery for other clubs!!

I think you'll find we are 18th (it'll be in the Sunday papers)!!!

By my calculations that means that there are a further 30 clubs below us that do not have an academy.

Hasn't it always been the way that teams from the lower divisions are nurseries for the higher divisions?

[kiwicolin]

lita came through the academy not the exit trials.

he came from the chelsea academy and he wasn't

going to get a contract there although he was promised

one.

ashtonyate. have you been round to the academy to

see what they have done to the place.

it is alot better than it was a few years back.

i think you should phone up john laycock to see

if you can have a tour round the place before knocking

the academy.

[Brianred]

I think you'll find we are 18th (it'll be in the Sunday papers)!!!

By my calculations that means that there are a further 30 clubs below us that do not have an academy.

Hasn't it always been the way that teams from the lower divisions are nurseries for the higher divisions?

Fans go on how big the club could be, so isn't about time the hierarchy kept hold of our useful players from the academy. in a funny way i can see where ashtonyate is coming from!!

[bh_red]

The problem is the Academy DOES work in producing the players for the 1st team.

The problem lies in when they reach the first team, they are then either mismanged, or allowed to have their contracts expire, leave for nothing/peanuts or are allowed to stick silly clauses in their contract.

If we had got the true worth for A Brown, Rosenior, Anayish or Hill, and even to a lesser extent Tommy and Coles then people wouldn't have a leg to stand on, but due to those problems we haven't

The academy side of things does work though...............once they have passed through, that's where the problems start. Hopefully this manager will stop this from happening, unlike Wilson and Tinnion.....but these problem lie mainly with Sexstone and Lansdown.

Hopefully Johnson will be strong and not let good young players contracts expire, With Coterill and Lita I think they have shown they have learned, Lita they took the good offer whilst it was there and they are keeping Cotts tied down long-term.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Praise be that we've got something one hundred times better than the BCFC academy - a proper manager at last !!!!! And well done to the Charlton academy and Charlton FC for their two academy players that played in our central defence yesterday !!!!

This is why I started this post how come a team has to bring in young player from another club to cover when it should have players from its own academy at that standard.

[Nibor]

This is why I started this post how come a team has to bring in young player from another club to cover when it should have players from its own academy at that standard.

It's quite simple.

We don't have any centre backs in the academy that are ready for first team action at the moment. Were you under the illusion that all the academy players should be able to step up immediately at the drop of a hat?

Nibor

[Guest ashtonyate]

It's quite simple.

We don't have any centre backs in the academy that are ready for first team action at the moment. Were you under the illusion that all the academy players should be able to step up immediately at the drop of a hat?

By the way, where's the point by point response you were going to make? You didn't really respond to anything you just said you didn't think the players were very good.

Nibor

I cant spend hours on emails if you send me one point at a time i will answer it

[Nibor]

I cant spend hours on emails if you send me one point at a time i will answer it

Never mind, I'd edited that bit out because I'd decided it was futile, I didn't realise you were reading it at the time.

[Guest dolman_man]

"You have chosen to ignore all posts from: ashtonyate.

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Ahh, good ol' Ignore button.

What a superb idea. I've done the same thing. The silence is wonderful.

Long live the academy.

[bh_red]

I cant spend hours on emails if you send me one point at a time i will answer it

RUBBISH.......................YOU DON'T ANSWER EVERY VALID POINT!!! YOU JUST SKIM AROUND THE VALID POINTS AND PICK UP ON PICKY ISSUES!

how can you judge any academy player when don't watch them!!!!

BLOODY ARMCHAIR FANS! plus if it was down to me I'd invest MORE money into the academy the results so far have been GREAT since it was started! We really should cast the net further, there are not many clubs in Devon or Cornwall and surely there must be some talented players down there ready to be groomed for the 1st team!

http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=46207

What do we think of Ashtonyate?

[Alex_BCFC]

I cant spend hours on emails if you send me one point at a time i will answer it

Why can't you just spend hours on here answering all the points you've missed?!

[Guest ashtonyate]

RUBBISH.......................YOU DON'T ANSWER EVERY VALID POINT!!! YOU JUST SKIM AROUND THE VALID POINTS AND PICK UP ON PICKY ISSUES!

how can you judge any academy player when don't watch them!!!!

BLOODY ARMCHAIR FANS! plus if it was down to me I'd invest MORE money into the academy the results so far have been GREAT since it was started! We really should cast the net further, there are not many clubs in Devon or Cornwall and surely there must be some talented players down there ready to be groomed for the 1st team!

http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=46207

What do we think of Ashtonyate?

Its Money that makes me an armchair supporter I was watching City before the best bit of you ran down your mother leg

[bh_red]

Sell your PC and spend the money on a season ticket!

You will be doing us and the club a favour!!!

[Guest ashtonyate]

Sell your PC and spend the money on a season ticket!

You will be doing us and the club a favour!!!

Then next year sell the tv yea great no i do think so, I shall go down at christmas to see a game Also I need my computer to point out what a waste of money the academy is. just anwser this if we had got into the 1st division how many of the players the academy have produced would be good enough to play in it and if we were near the top how many would be good enough to play in the prem 2 Lita & Roseinor In 7 years of Academy we have produced 2 high quaily players its Crap

[Guest Frank]

just anwser this if we had got into the 1st division how many of the players the academy have produced would be good enough to play in it

Liam Rosenior

Leroy Lita

Aaron Brown

Tommy Doherty

Danny Coles

Joe Anyinsah

They all currently play at that level or above so are presumably seen as good enough by people with a bit more knowledge of the game than you.

Add to that Skuse being trailed by at least one Premiership club, Cotterill who was offered contracts by 2 or 3 Premiership clubs and Clayton Fortune who Preston offered 400k for and that's 9 players.

Also take a look at the under 18 results this season and you will see they are beating their counterparts from higher divisions regularly. There seems to be an even better crop coming through.