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Two Supporter's Trust Forums?


PhatWill

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Posted

I've been trawling through all the #### posted on this forum over the past day or so and I'm miffed as to what has happened.

We now have an official Supporters Trust forum somewhere in cyberspace and we have this one which is moderated by Supporters Trust members. What is the difference?

Isn't it about time a decent independent City web site was set up with its own forum like the good old days?

I don't see why City fans who don't wish to be associated with the Trust have to have their comments moderated by its members.

Posted

I've been trawling through all the #### posted on this forum over the past day or so and I'm miffed as to what has happened.

We now have an official Supporters Trust forum somewhere in cyberspace and we have this one which is moderated by Supporters Trust members. What is the difference?

Isn't it about time a decent independent City web site was set up with its own forum like the good old days?

I don't see why City fans who don't wish to be associated with the Trust have to have their comments moderated by its members.

Good questions raised here.

The difference between the ST forum * otib is this: The ST forum is to discuss issues directly relating to the Supports Trust & all the goings on that it is concerned with. Otib remains pretty much the same as it has apart from the obvious fact that it is no longer run by BCFC.

Not all mods are part of the ST (Tom & Geoff at Clik for example). Secondly, all ST mods are NOT to moderate any comments about the ST unless they are in breach of the standard otib rules. As mentioned in other posts, we are open to criticism. If at any point you or someone has had a post/topic removed, feel free to ask why.

See Post No.131 : http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=52105&st=90 for a few more bits of related information.

Posted

In response to that then, I would ask; is it necessary for the ST to have their logo displayed at the top of every forum page?

You've only got a few mods on this forum so I don't really see why that logo should be displayed, it just confuses matters somewhat.

Posted

Just what I was thinking, first time I've been able to come on here for a couple of days and we now have two supporters trust forums (it looks like)

Why not just put a good old Robin badge at the top, get rid of all the Gasheads, Swindon fans etc.

And get back to the old times.

Posted

In response to that then, I would ask; is it necessary for the ST to have their logo displayed at the top of every forum page?

You've only got a few mods on this forum so I don't really see why that logo should be displayed, it just confuses matters somewhat.

This is a fair point. We'll look in to this asap as we don't wish to cause confusion. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

Guest The Codfather 0312
Posted

I doesn't cause any confussion to me, It is the same as before just run by different people(the ST) and they have there small logo there to show that. It's like when one company buys another company but the two companies remain seperate, Same sort of thing really, Otib stays the same as before with a few changes and the ST forum stays the same.

Many people will see this as a good thing as before some people used to get baned for silly things but I hae been told there may be a warning system introduced and further more The new Mods are all cool. I'm sure if you have any concerns they may meet you on match days at the ST stall to discuss your worries.

Posted

I doesn't cause any confussion to me, It is the same as before just run by different people(the ST) and they have there small logo there to show that. It's like when one company buys another company but the two companies remain seperate, Same sort of thing really, Otib stays the same as before with a few changes and the ST forum stays the same.

Many people will see this as a good thing as before some people used to get baned for silly things but I hae been told there may be a warning system introduced and further more The new Mods are all cool. I'm sure if you have any concerns they may meet you on match days at the ST stall to discuss your worries.

But if this is the new 'official' independent fans forum then surely it should be independent of all organisations apart from a vague (insofar as not affiliated) relationship to Bristol City?

Otherwise the two forums simply cross over and confuse matters.

Guest The Codfather 0312
Posted

Why does it confuse matters? Otib stays as itwas so does the st forum. You could say that having the Ysc forum could confuse people with this forum. If people do get confused all they need to think is what it was like before the changes were made. St forum was for ST stuff and otib is a fans forum for city talk etc etc. It is virtually the same apart from who now runs it.

It's like work when your manager leaves. You get a new one and he does the same job but maybe changes one or two things. Pretty simple really.

Guest The Codfather 0312
Posted
take down the ST logo then.

It's a tiny logo that is next to the Bristol City fans' forum logo which is much bigger. People must have serious eye sight problems if they confuse the small one and the big one.

Posted

In response to that then, I would ask; is it necessary for the ST to have their logo displayed at the top of every forum page?

You've only got a few mods on this forum so I don't really see why that logo should be displayed, it just confuses matters somewhat.

that is what a lot of people are thinking

Posted

It's like work when your manager leaves. You get a new one and he does the same job but maybe changes one or two things. Pretty simple really.

But he doesn't carry around the same ID badge, does he?

Unless they were twins of course.

Posted

It's a tiny logo that is next to the Bristol City fans' forum logo which is much bigger. People must have serious eye sight problems if they confuse the small one and the big one.

i don't confuse them. i don't think much bigger is right, because the icons are both the same height and almost the same width so they're very nearly the same size, but beside my point. I don't confuse them i just don't see the need for the ST logo to be there.

Posted

It's a tiny logo that is next to the Bristol City fans' forum logo which is much bigger. People must have serious eye sight problems if they confuse the small one and the big one.

What the hell are you talking about?

I've said it before, bleedin' idiot you are.

There's nothing wrong with my eyesight! I am questioning why the ST badge is there at all you numpty.

Guest The Codfather 0312
Posted

What the hell are you talking about?

I've said it before, bleedin' idiot you are.

There's nothing wrong with my eyesight! I am questioning why the ST badge is there at all you numpty.

Please don't call me insulting names, It's there as the St run the forum, I think you need to call yourself a idiot not me for not knowing that.

Posted

Please don't call me insulting names, It's there as the St run the forum, I think you need to call yourself a idiot not me for not knowing that.

Your point of view then raises the question (as has been answered above by Jay, if you look) of why in that case have two forums?

Even Jay has said that it will be looked into.

Posted

Trout McNugget is still trying to brown nose his way into the ST therefore he is trying to impress them by sticking up for them!!

Guest The Codfather 0312
Posted

Your point of view then raises the question (as has been answered above by Jay, if you look) of why in that case have two forums?

Even Jay has said that it will be looked into.

As i see it, It makes sense to have to seperate forums at this moment in time. This forum is for city things and the ST forum is for ST stuff, Two completly things, In time when people have got used to the idea then maybe the forums could merge together with the St forums being in a sub cat, But saying that at the moment it is only a 6 months trial so maybe it should wait till then to decide. And merging them both tother now would only cause further confusion to some.

Trout McNugget is still trying to brown nose his way into the ST therefore he is trying to impress them by sticking up for them!!

No i'm just trying to say it how it is.

Guest CityDuke14
Posted

Trout McNugget is still trying to brown nose his way into the ST therefore he is trying to impress them by sticking up for them!!

There is no need for anyone to attempt to "brown nose" or "impress" the ST.It does work like that.

ALL fans are welcome to join the ST.It is run by it's members,all of which are fans of Bristol City.

It is irrelevant whether an individual thinks that the ST is a bad idea,run by a small clique,or decides to shout from the rooftops how great it is.All people are treated equally and can become a board member.

Posted

This is a fair point. We'll look in to this asap as we don't wish to cause confusion. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

I'm not sure about all this 'WE'LL look into it', WE want to listen to fans views'. It's creating sides - surely the only views you should be expressing are either your own or the collective view of US! ie all City fans.

:dunno:

Not convinced this is turning out too well, for forum users, the ST or BCFC at the moment...

Posted

I'm not sure about all this 'WE'LL look into it', WE want to listen to fans views'. It's creating sides - surely the only views you should be expressing are either your own or the collective view of US! ie all City fans.

:dunno:

Not convinced this is turning out too well, for forum users, the ST or BCFC at the moment...

Your comments are noted. :me?:

Nibor

Posted

I'm not sure about all this 'WE'LL look into it', WE want to listen to fans views'. It's creating sides - surely the only views you should be expressing are either your own or the collective view of US! ie all City fans.

:dunno:

Not convinced this is turning out too well, for forum users, the ST or BCFC at the moment...

Of course, yourself and Nibor are spot on.

Quite plainly, since being offered the chance to take over the running of this forum, the ST have grasped it as an opportunity to enhance their own position and strength as an organization.

Unfortunately, as much as they've argued (and will continue to argue) against this point too many people have already seen straight through it and formed their own opinions.

The fact is, the poor quality of this forum has been putting off many of it's long-standing and valued members for a good while now. For it to have finally been taken over by, what is in essence, a self-elected organization, whom have taken it upon themselves to decide what's best for us will be the final straw for those that haven't already abandoned ship.

Posted

Has anyone else noticed that the ST badge has been replaced with the City badge?

Does that show that they do listen?

Posted

Has anyone else noticed that the ST badge has been replaced with the City badge?

Does that show that they do listen?

The point is not whether they listen or not, but why they have become the superior force on the forum.

What gives them the right to dictate what goes and what doesn't go?

Posted

As opposed to the plethora of logos, official or not, that appear on your site?

if you like :rolleyes:

but we are seperate from here and the trust.

hmmm whos is looking after trust site :laugh:

bog off and get validating it i got enough to do :ph34r:

Posted

The point is not whether they listen or not, but why they have become the superior force on the forum.

What gives them the right to dictate what goes and what doesn't go?

What gives TomF and Geoff the right to dictate what does or doesn't go? They are unelected too. I'm not having a go at them, by any means, merely pointing out that someone has to do it and that just because people aren't annointed by divinity or picked by you and I does not mean they can't do a decent job. At least before long the people running ST will be elected. I'm not quite sure who ran the message board before the club took it over, but I don't think they were directly picked by the members. They were picked in the same sense that the mods under the ST are - namely that you and I can choose to post here if we think it is a decent enough and well-run board, or go elsewhere if we do not.

Posted

What gives TomF and Geoff the right to dictate what does or doesn't go? They are unelected too. I'm not having a go at them, by any means, merely pointing out that someone has to do it and that just because people aren't annointed by divinity or picked by you and I does not mean they can't do a decent job. At least before long the people running ST will be elected. I'm not quite sure who ran the message board before the club took it over, but I don't think they were directly picked by the members. They were picked in the same sense that the mods under the ST are - namely that you and I can choose to post here if we think it is a decent enough and well-run board, or go elsewhere if we do not.

TomF and Geoff work for clik who own the domain, data and servers and are chaired by Scott Davidson who set up otib. They have more right than anyone else. In fact, I'm surprised they're letting SteveL and the ST get away with this.

I am 100% sure they wouldn't dictate, their proven track record indicates they'd act fairly and reasonably, they have trust and respect that they have earned over YEARS.

Now, explain why a 15-20 person strong working party of self appointed people representing a total of 200, who have no track record or experience moderating internet forums, at least one of whom has already been found abusing mod rights and had them removed, have the right to dictate to 4000+ otib users?

Nibor

Posted

What gives TomF and Geoff the right to dictate what does or doesn't go?

We own the server

We own the domain

Technicallly all the data on here is ours, but that is debatable and is probably another topic for another day.

We have a right to protect Clik Ltd and ulitmately the content that is put on this site could be reflected upon us both in a legal aspect and one that could reflect badly on us and damage our software/hosting sales.

I couldn't do my job if I didn't have the option to dictate as you put it :dunno:

Posted

What gives TomF and Geoff the right to dictate what does or doesn't go? They are unelected too. I'm not having a go at them, by any means, merely pointing out that someone has to do it and that just because people aren't annointed by divinity or picked by you and I does not mean they can't do a decent job. At least before long the people running ST will be elected. I'm not quite sure who ran the message board before the club took it over, but I don't think they were directly picked by the members. They were picked in the same sense that the mods under the ST are - namely that you and I can choose to post here if we think it is a decent enough and well-run board, or go elsewhere if we do not.

TomF and Geoff have been around running the forum a lot longer than any of the ST moderators have even been using it. They have earnt the respect of those using the boards because they do a job for the good of the forum, and for the good of the users because it's their job. They're not doing it to enhance reputations.

In contrast, the ST have left the impression that they have taken over the forum in order to enhance their own reputation and gain more credability/power as an organization. And now the rest of us have to bow down to them because apparently they know what's best.

Posted

What gives TomF and Geoff the right to dictate what does or doesn't go? They are unelected too. I'm not having a go at them, by any means, merely pointing out that someone has to do it and that just because people aren't annointed by divinity or picked by you and I does not mean they can't do a decent job. At least before long the people running ST will be elected. I'm not quite sure who ran the message board before the club took it over, but I don't think they were directly picked by the members. They were picked in the same sense that the mods under the ST are - namely that you and I can choose to post here if we think it is a decent enough and well-run board, or go elsewhere if we do not.

I have no problem with TomF or Geoff...... two pretty mellow dudes that would lose sleep over not being fair and even handed....... yes someone has to do it......

The problem with elections is......... you may not vote for the side that wins but you then have to suffer the side that wins decisions?

Time will tell.......... I think the forum has been pretty dull and the need to make a serious comment has diminished over the years.......... Who knows perhaps the forum will 'SUPER NOVA' and be the more vibrant beast it once was... ?

Posted

TomF and Geoff have been around running the forum a lot longer than any of the supporters trust moderators have even been using it. They have earnt the respect of those using the boards because they do a job for the good of the forum, and for the good of the users because it's their job. they're not doing it merely to enhance their own reputation

The ST have left the impression that they have taken over the forum in order to enhance their own reputation and gain more credability/power as an organization.

spot on there fella' that is how it looks :shifty:

Guest twaters
Posted

Just wondered what the possibility of merging the two sites are. I must admit i find it strange having two seperate forums. Why not get rid of the ASK Steve section and replace it with the ST section and have all the sub sections like on the current ST forum. It just makes snse to merge the two.

This ofcourse only works if BCFC has officially ended all there links and say with this forum. If this is the case who pay Click? How is it working? Perhaps someone LIKE Jay from the ST could answer.

Thanks

Posted

Just wondered what the possibility of merging the two sites are. I must admit i find it strange having two seperate forums. Why not get rid of the ASK Steve section and replace it with the ST section and have all the sub sections like on the current ST forum. It just makes snse to merge the two.

This ofcourse only works if BCFC has officially ended all there links and say with this forum. If this is the case who pay Click? How is it working? Perhaps someone LIKE Jay from the ST could answer.

Thanks

Technically it would be nigh on impossible to retain the ST posts etc that are over there.

The ST site runs MySQL and this MS-SQL. I once converted a board from mySQL and that was enough for one lifetime.

I'm sure they are discussing some of the points raised and I'll advise them with any ideas they have :)

Guest twaters
Posted

Technically it would be nigh on impossible to retain the ST posts etc that are over there.

The ST site runs MySQL and this MS-SQL. I once converted a board from mySQL and that was enough for one lifetime.

I'm sure they are discussing some of the points raised and I'll advise them with any ideas they have :)

Sorry i didnt mean to transfer the posts, (sorry current ST posts) Yeah that would be very anoying! But just to re itterate i think there should be just one Forum, same style as this but a few graphic changes. Both ST logo and BCFC logo etc etc.

So who pays your wages Tom? Obviously Click but is BCFC still contributing or are the forum going to have to start contributing.

Posted

Just wondered what the possibility of merging the two sites are. I must admit i find it strange having two seperate forums. Why not get rid of the ASK Steve section and replace it with the ST section and have all the sub sections like on the current ST forum. It just makes snse to merge the two.

This ofcourse only works if BCFC has officially ended all there links and say with this forum. If this is the case who pay Click? How is it working? Perhaps someone LIKE Jay from the ST could answer.

Thanks

The two forums will continue to run seperately. The ST forum is for all ST related issues whilst otib is a more general football/BCFC related forum. There are some people who are against the ST and would not wish to be involved with them. Apart from the technical complications that Tom has listed, merging the forums would not good for the majority of the otib users.

I am in danger of repeating myself from many of the other posts that I've responded to today. Please feel free to read the pinned topic I posted (http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=52130)

Sorry about the short response on this occasion - will do my best to address concerns in depth when possible.

Posted

So who pays your wages Tom? Obviously Click but is BCFC still contributing or are the forum going to have to start contributing.

I work for Clik, and to be honest the forum equates to about 1% of what I should be doing at work, but infact probably is 25% of my time and certain days of the week. My main roles are supporting our service management software to be honest as a technical engineer/author/trainner/network admin/coffee boy/pie fetcher from Clarks Pies :whistle:

I believe if you read Thatcham Red's statement on another topic, the Club (BCFC) are paying for 6 months while the ST look at making the site self funding. Then after 6 months it'll be reviewed and see where we are.

Posted

if you like :rolleyes:

but we are seperate from here and the trust.

hmmm whos is looking after trust site :laugh:

bog off and get validating it i got enough to do :ph34r:

Touchy touchy.

:handbags:

Guest twaters
Posted

Thanks for both your replies, that has cleared up alot of my questions.

Jay its a shame because i think the two forums will confuse people. The club have washed thier hands of the forum and now basically said to the ST you can be in charge and there you go. The only positive thing is the contacts you potentially have provided Click allow you to multi PM etc etc. The possibility of making contacts is great.

Tom I'm glad to hear you don't just solely run this website, your days would be dull beyond belief! The domain and webspace can only cost £50 a year, plus the maintenance and monitoring, your company probably charges £50 a month so i would assume it wouldnt cost the ST too much to keep it going. Probably way out with the costs :P but hey I'm an ametur!

Posted

The point is not whether they listen or not, but why they have become the superior force on the forum.

What gives them the right to dictate what goes and what doesn't go?

I don't know, but someone has given them the responsability and people have given them a lot of stick for taking the responsabillity.

Was it the club officials who offered them the responsability and asked them to keep it secret?

With regards to the badge, I've read quite a few posts saying it shouldn't be there but not one that has acknowledged that it has been changed back to the City badge.

I think people like to moan and criticize a lot more than they like to praise.

As other posters have said about the critisisum(sp) aimed towards the ST, the ST are doing their best and mean good for BCFC.

I don't know if they will make a profit from modding this forum, but if they do, will that be a problem? I'm sure they'll use any profits (if any) to help the ST to help the supporters to help BCFC.

You can pick holes in pretty much anything by the way.

Guest The Codfather 0312
Posted

I don't know, but someone has given them the responsability and people have given them a lot of stick for taking the responsabillity.

Was it the club officials who offered them the responsability and asked them to keep it secret?

With regards to the badge, I've read quite a few posts saying it shouldn't be there but not one that has acknowledged that it has been changed back to the City badge.

I think people like to moan and criticize a lot more than they like to praise.

As other posters have said about the critisisum(sp) aimed towards the ST, the ST are doing their best and mean good for BCFC.

I don't know if they will make a profit from modding this forum, but if they do, will that be a problem? I'm sure they'll use any profits (if any) to help the ST to help the supporters to help BCFC.

You can pick holes in pretty much anything by the way.

Yes i'm sure if they did make any profit it would go straight into the ST, The ST is charity so no in the St will be making any money out of it.

Posted

Exactly the trust has had a few teething problems on the forum admitted its made a few errors and is trying to make things right. Whats wrong with that? Lets not try shoot people down but listen to them everyone makes mistakes after all :dunno:

Posted

We own the server

We own the domain

Technicallly all the data on here is ours, but that is debatable and is probably another topic for another day.

We have a right to protect Clik Ltd and ulitmately the content that is put on this site could be reflected upon us both in a legal aspect and one that could reflect badly on us and damage our software/hosting sales.

I couldn't do my job if I didn't have the option to dictate as you put it :dunno:

Asking what gave you the right was a rhetorical question, Tom. My point was that no-one on the forum selected you and Geoff to moderate the site, but that this did not mean you were doing a poor job of it - hopefully dispelling this bizarre idea that the only people capable of moderating successfully are those who are handpicked from within by the forum members.

Interesting point about who owns what. Presumably, although you own the data the copyright of the content of each individual posting technically remains the property of the individual poster as it is the product of intellectual creativity?

Posted

Menbers? Sub speak?

It's called a 'typo'.

Interesting points raised on merging the forums - that's exactly what I'm getting at.

It would make sense to merge them but then and again that would well and truly deem it a ST forum.

The two just don't mix.

Posted

You may as well merge the forums, have an ST forum here, it would save money.

Ah yes money. If we continue to have the two ST run forums then will that mean we'll be paying to maintain both of them?

Cashback.

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