It Doesn't Just Happen At AG

[Bristol Boy]

Regarding Supporter Unrest & Injuries to Key Players.

And they made the play off final last year and won what is now the JPT.....Oh and a nice new stadium.

Food for thought when people berate sections of our support.

Oldhams Sean Gregan was also injured in training today and could be out for a few weeks.

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FROM THE BBC WEBSITE

"When you lose at home at this crucial stage of the season you expect to take stick from the fans. You have to accept it and move on."

The Swansea boss received the backing of his captain Darren Pratley.

"The supporters target the manager, but it was the players who were out there on the pitch and we'll hold our hands up - we feel that we let Kenny down," the midfielder told BBC Sport Wales.

"It's disappointing to get heckled by your own fans, but they've paid their money and are entitled to their opinion.

"We have no complaints about the defeat, Oldham were the better team in all positions and are the best team we've played this season.

"But our performance was embarrassing, to be honest, and we're all bitterly disappointed.

"We'll never say never to automatic promotion while there's a chance, but it's a big gap to make up and we have to start performing."

Swansea are assessing the extent of injuries picked up by Leon Britton (dead leg) and Alan Tate (groin) in the Oldham game.

[Cyderman]

Regarding Supporter Unrest & Injuries to Key Players.

And they made the play off final last year and won what is now the JPT.....Oh and a nice new stadium.

Food for thought when people berate sections of our support.

Oldhams Sean Gregan was also injured in training today and could be out for a few weeks.

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FROM THE BBC WEBSITE

"When you lose at home at this crucial stage of the season you expect to take stick from the fans. You have to accept it and move on."

The Swansea boss received the backing of his captain Darren Pratley.

"The supporters target the manager, but it was the players who were out there on the pitch and we'll hold our hands up - we feel that we let Kenny down," the midfielder told BBC Sport Wales.

"It's disappointing to get heckled by your own fans, but they've paid their money and are entitled to their opinion.

"We have no complaints about the defeat, Oldham were the better team in all positions and are the best team we've played this season.

"But our performance was embarrassing, to be honest, and we're all bitterly disappointed.

"We'll never say never to automatic promotion while there's a chance, but it's a big gap to make up and we have to start performing."

Swansea are assessing the extent of injuries picked up by Leon Britton (dead leg) and Alan Tate (groin) in the Oldham game.

Of course they're going to say that, they're not going to come out and say 'our supporters need to sit down and shut up' are they? Just because supporters are entitled to criticise, it doesnt mean that it doesn't affect the players.

[cheshire_red]

It may affected someone who may have got his coat tonight though

[kingswood red]

It may affected someone who may have got his coat tonight though

Err, any chance of a translation, old chap?

[Jay]

"When you lose at home at this crucial stage of the season you expect to take stick from the fans. You have to accept it and move on."

Why accept it? Should managers & players HAVE to grow a thick skin?

Maybe I'm misreading the tone of the statement above but if you are getting stick on the back of a "disappointing" performance, surely there is more to be gained by not just accepting stick but using it as a measuring guage? To accept & move on suggests, to me, that the fans comments are like water off a ducks back.

Most fans are the same in this respect: If a team performs well, tries hard but simply gets beaten by a better team, most fans will accept the loss and not get on the manager's/player's backs so quickly. However, if we are beaten by what we consider to be an inferior team & our performance was poor (Cheltenham comes to mind), then fans will often react by using negative comments. Whilst I'm not questioning person's individual rights to make criticism, I wonder sometimes whether people ever consider this senario in a different environment? For example, if you did a bad job at work, are you likely to respond & become encouraged to do a better job by listening to someone highlight and criticise all the things you know you've just done wrong? Or, are you likely to find yourself more motivated to get it right by hearing words of encouragement combined with help and constructive criticism?

I can't help but feel that we, as fans, overlook the humanity of the situation sometimes. Ok, so some of these guys are on large wages and you'd expect something for the money but can you really apply a ratio that is 'the higher the wage, the less likely to make a mistake'? We all get bad days, regardless of our jobs. To me, this is when the quality of a manager shines through. The easy route is to put down, tell off & criticise but the better route (in my humble opinion) is to encourage, motivate and build. By doing this, you're likely to increase the person's sense of worth and get them to perform better. Positivity breeds positivity - it can be infectious. Positive performances will help get the crowd back on side, when the crowd are on side the players are even more encouraged. The whole situation can perpetuate. That said, it would be a little tainted of me if I were not to consider that we could still do our best and get beaten but that's football.

I've never booed a player or a performance though I understand why people do, be it a sign and expression of discontent or whether people feel it will have some effect. I find it disappointing that people do feel the need to become thick skinned these days. People adapt a "who gives a sh!t?" attitude because it's easier to ignore & dismiss comments/situations but, to me, that goes against one of the better sides of our humanity. Why do we have to become impervious to such things? I suppose it's because that's what we've become accustomed to? Is it self preservation? I do find it to be a shame that many people's instinct is to castigate before encourage and it's motions like this that I believe causes the thick skin to grow.

*stands down off of moral soapbox & gets a coffee*

[cheshire_red]

Err, any chance of a translation, old chap?

I once was an ugly duckling.

[Nibor]

Regarding Supporter Unrest & Injuries to Key Players.

And they made the play off final last year and won what is now the JPT.....Oh and a nice new stadium.

Food for thought when people berate sections of our support.

Not really food for thought, I don't give a monkey's what Swansea fans do. Besides, clearly it happens rarely enough to be worth a mention - not the case at Ashton gate.

There is a small minority at Ashton gate that are considerably more negative and keen to abuse their own players than any other home fans I've seen in the country. I'm not talking about a groan from a mishit pass, I'm talking about "you're ###### shite Johnson get that mascot off" after 20 minutes.

People that carry on like this deserve every bit of berating they get, there's no reason whatsoever the majority of supporters should put up with their behaviour. There's a bloke behind me in the Dolman that does this and I've made my mind up after the disgraceful way he conducted himself in the last game that the next time I hear it he's getting at least a mouthful back.

[Bristol Boy]

Why accept it? Should managers & players HAVE to grow a thick skin?

Maybe I'm misreading the tone of the statement above but if you are getting stick on the back of a "disappointing" performance, surely there is more to be gained by not just accepting stick but using it as a measuring guage? To accept & move on suggests, to me, that the fans comments are like water off a ducks back.

My point was that as Bristolians we tend to beat ourselves up- think that AG is the only stadium where the players aren't cheered to the rafters at every available minute, the manager isn't treated as a God and the only stadium where the fans don't continuously sing.

Our attendances drop because we've been stuck here for nine years-Check Leeds Premiership 43,000-Championship 16,500!

This week.......and every other, has proved that those views are wrong.In fact, on what I've seen and read lately, I think we're pretty bl00dy good and the club gets off lightly.

[Bristol Boy]

Not really food for thought, I don't give a monkey's what Swansea fans do.

Neither do I and that's not the point

Besides, clearly it happens rarely enough to be worth a mention - not the case at Ashton gate.

It's happened plenty at Swansea

There is a small minority at Ashton gate that are considerably more negative and keen to abuse their own players than any other home fans I've seen in the country.

Then you ain't been around much.Having been to Man Utd and heard Ryan Giggs & Phil Neville getting plenty from hundreds, not a few fans and to Liverpool where Benitez was castigated for selecting a weakened team and players like Cherou might have been lynched, I don't believe we're any worse.Christ, Boro hardly sang and booed the players off at half time only this week.Ferdinand was one of a number of players getting hammered during games by West Ham fans this season.Reo Coker was also singled out

I'm not talking about a groan from a mishit pass, I'm talking about "you're ###### shite Johnson get that mascot off" after 20 minutes.

I'd agree with that and have said so.My comments surround what was happening collectively at Swansea.It doesn't say that individual players were singled out and it was certainly more than one person.

People that carry on like this deserve every bit of berating they get, there's no reason whatsoever the majority of supporters should put up with their behaviour. There's a bloke behind me in the Dolman that does this and I've made my mind up after the disgraceful way he conducted himself in the last game that the next time I hear it he's getting at least a mouthful back.

Good luck with that because he may not realise that you are in charge and he has to support in a way that meets your approval. When you both get chucked out after he's lamped you and you're both banned that you feel satisfied.That approach has been tried over thirty years with hooliganism and they're still here.

"Whilst I may not agree with you, I will defend to my death you're right to say it"..........as someone famous once said.

Now, that's obviously subject to the rules of law etc but the only way it's going to stop is when the team performs well, regularly.Winnings fine, but if it's a game like Cheltm and we pinch it with a pen in the last minute, they'll be plenty of moaning and groaning before hand collective and individual.And that, believe me, happens everywhere

[Nibor]

Then you ain't been around much.Having been to Man Utd and heard Ryan Giggs & Phil Neville getting plenty from hundreds, not a few fans and to Liverpool where Benitez was castigated for selecting a weakened team and players like Cherou might have been lynched, I don't believe we're any worse.Christ, Boro hardly sang and booed the players off at half time only this week.Ferdinand was one of a number of players getting hammered during games by West Ham fans this season.Reo Coker was also singled out

I have been to plenty of grounds around the country thanks and I've not encountered the level of abuse given to individual players by a small vocal minority similar to ashton gate.

I'd agree with that and have said so.My comments surround what was happening collectively at Swansea.It doesn't say that individual players were singled out and it was certainly more than one person.

They got booed off for playing crap from the sounds of it, not too bothered about that though it can't help. What I'm talking about is individual insults and abuse. Whilst your post doesn't mention that, it comes as a response to some of the posts on here berating "fans" after the nastiness on the weekend which we both know was not the same thing as a collective groan.

Good luck with that because he may not realise that you are in charge and he has to support in a way that meets your approval. When you both get chucked out after he's lamped you and you're both banned that you feel satisfied.That approach has been tried over thirty years with hooliganism and they're still here.

I'm not in charge and never implied I was. It has absolutely nothing to do with hooliganism and it won't develop into a fight. Why do you call what I've described "supporting" ? It's the very opposite.

It's quite simple. If I have to sit there and listen to him calling one of our players a C U Next Tuesday every 2 minutes then he's going to get some back. I am absolutely certain that the vast majority of people around me are just as sick and tired of it as I am.

"Whilst I may not agree with you, I will defend to my death you're right to say it"..........as someone famous once said.

Actually it was a famous description of Voltaire's attitude by Tallentyre.

Here's one that was actually said "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."

If he's got the right to behave in that manner then I've got every right to tell the toss piece to sit down, shut up and stop acting like a tool. If he gets upset about that it's not my fault and it certainly won't be my problem.

Now, that's obviously subject to the rules of law etc but the only way it's going to stop is when the team performs well, regularly.Winnings fine, but if it's a game like Cheltm and we pinch it with a pen in the last minute, they'll be plenty of moaning and groaning before hand collective and individual.And that, believe me, happens everywhere

Moaning and groaning is not what I'm talking about and you know it. I'm talking about abusing individual players in a manner that will not improve their performance and is merely about some bitter old man venting his frustration. I'm unsurprised that you're advocating it really.

[Bristol Boy]

I have been to plenty of grounds around the country thanks and I've not encountered the level of abuse given to individual players by a small vocal minority similar to ashton gate.

That surprises me

They got booed off for playing crap from the sounds of it, not too bothered about that though it can't help. What I'm talking about is individual insults and abuse. Whilst your post doesn't mention that, it comes as a response to some of the posts on here berating "fans" after the nastiness on the weekend which we both know was not the same thing as a collective groan.

One bloke out of almost 12,000.The EP sensationalised what was hardly worth mentioning as he got nowehere near Orr.Storm in a teacup.........or possibly storm in a provincial newspaper

I'm not in charge and never implied I was. It has absolutely nothing to do with hooliganism and it won't develop into a fight. Why do you call what I've described "supporting" ? It's the very opposite.

OK, lets call it his "preffered behaviour." If he's got a problem with LJ you won't solve it by confronting him and you don't know that others won't join in on his side or yours.

It's quite simple. If I have to sit there and listen to him calling one of our players a C U Next Tuesday every 2 minutes then he's going to get some back. I am absolutely certain that the vast majority of people around me are just as sick and tired of it as I am.

Fine, however, my advice, that I know you won't take, would be a quiet word in the first place and if he's still calling LJ that every two minutes then move to the next level.In order that you don't get yourself in trouble or expose yourself to the possibility of it, I suggest you mention it to a Senior Steward and they can remove him or ask him to move if he's genuinely causing you and others offence.That has happend with some individuals before.They're happy.You're happy.

Actually it was a famous description of Voltaire's attitude by Tallentyre.

Splendid-I'll keep that one on file

Here's one that was actually said "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."

Don't like that one as much, but I'll still log it.

If he's got the right to behave in that manner then I've got every right to tell the toss piece to sit down, shut up and stop acting like a tool. If he gets upset about that it's not my fault and it certainly won't be my problem.

It will if he, or one of his mates knocks you out-Then you'll be in the EP, wrongly accused along with Bradley Orr.....Think about it.

Moaning and groaning is not what I'm talking about and you know it.

I wasn't talking about individual insults & abuse but you brought that up

I'm talking about abusing individual players in a manner that will not improve their performance and is merely about some bitter old man venting his frustration. I'm unsurprised that you're advocating it really.

I'm not advocating it, excusing it or condoning it, merely debating it and and well you know it so don't go there.

Neither have I actually mentioned it, that was you and it's off the point of the original post which was to compare other fans and other grounds .If the players can hear it above the collective groans then I've no doubt they'll deal with it a they always have, home and away.I've been to Millwall & Cardiff and heard levels of abuse that would bring expulsion in other grounds-To their own players!!

Anyway, looks like moaners 1 happy clappys nil at Swansea because Jacketts gone---------Apparently, the Chairman was one of the moaners and that can't help.

[Nibor]

"One bloke out of almost 12,000.The EP sensationalised what was hardly worth mentioning as he got nowehere near Orr.Storm in a teacup.........or possibly storm in a provincial newspaper"

Actually there were many posts on here after Saturday's game talking about the disgraceful way a tiny minority of individual fans were loudly abusing players during the game, in different places around the ground. I thought that was what your post here was trying to provide a counterpoint to, and I think the Swansea incident you refer to is very different from what most people on here were talking about.

"Fine, however, my advice, that I know you won't take, would be a quiet word in the first place and if he's still calling LJ that every two minutes then move to the next level.In order that you don't get yourself in trouble or expose yourself to the possibility of it, I suggest you mention it to a Senior Steward and they can remove him or ask him to move if he's genuinely causing you and others offence.That has happend with some individuals before.They're happy.You're happy."

I've already witnessed him screaming into a woman's face from about six inches away for daring to clap the players after the Yeovil game, and shouting about how he'll say what he wants when another fan asked him to pipe down. A quiet word would be pointless. I won't be getting into any trouble though.

"It will if he, or one of his mates knocks you out-Then you'll be in the EP, wrongly accused along with Bradley Orr.....Think about it."

His mates are embarrassed by him, and frankly I've very little reason to be worried about him knocking me out.

My point is it's time that we as a collective stop tolerating the odd idiot in a thousand like this who could quite possibly succeed in driving LJ out of the club if they carry on.

[AtyeoRed]

It is unfortunate that LJ is being picked on by certain sections of our crowd, but he is a good player and will rise above it.

I can remember when Gerry Gow was treated the same way, and Brian Tinnion was nearlly hounded out of the club, and they both

became Cult Heroes at the Gate.

[Bristol Boy]

"One bloke out of almost 12,000.The EP sensationalised what was hardly worth mentioning as he got nowehere near Orr.Storm in a teacup.........or possibly storm in a provincial newspaper"

Actually there were many posts on here after Saturday's game talking about the disgraceful way a tiny minority of individual fans were loudly abusing players during the game, in different places around the ground. I thought that was what your post here was trying to provide a counterpoint to, and I think the Swansea incident you refer to is very different from what most people on here were talking about.

I know and I made no reference to Saturdays incident for that very reason.The point I was making was one about the fact that there is dissatisfcation around lots of grounds and moaning and groaning isn't an exclusvie AG activity.GJ continually mentions the moaners and the only ones he can hear are in the Williams.Asyou say, there are pockets everywhere around AG and, as I know for a fact, most of the grounds I have been to, both watching City and as a neutral.GJ has also been very keen to mention that 99.9% of fans are fine and our away support is magnificent.

"Fine, however, my advice, that I know you won't take, would be a quiet word in the first place and if he's still calling LJ that every two minutes then move to the next level.In order that you don't get yourself in trouble or expose yourself to the possibility of it, I suggest you mention it to a Senior Steward and they can remove him or ask him to move if he's genuinely causing you and others offence.That has happend with some individuals before.They're happy.You're happy."

I've already witnessed him screaming into a woman's face from about six inches away for daring to clap the players after the Yeovil game, and shouting about how he'll say what he wants when another fan asked him to pipe down. A quiet word would be pointless. I won't be getting into any trouble though.

Good because it's not worth it.In the recent EE Meeting Keith Draisey was at pains to point out that any "sorting out" should be done by stewards and not become a "vigilante" activity.I go along with that because it only takes one to start swinging and then it will escalate as sure as eggs are eggs.

"It will if he, or one of his mates knocks you out-Then you'll be in the EP, wrongly accused along with Bradley Orr.....Think about it."

His mates are embarrassed by him, and frankly I've very little reason to be worried about him knocking me out.

Up to you

My point is it's time that we as a collective

Whoa there! Collective and who's we? If you've got an issue with one bloke or people that abuse a player in general then that's for you to consider.It doesn't bother me because I don't think it's the odd loudmouth that bothers the players because they won't hear him if all the positive fans start singing and dancing as I was at Boro, due in no small way to a cracking game and a good performance, which, we all know is the real solution to appathy & anger.

There are a mixture of happys, moaners, funny people, micky takers where I sit and we all get on with it and enjoy the game.That's not to say that we're all laughing and joking or don't become angry and exassperated from time to time.

stop tolerating the odd idiot in a thousand like this who could quite possibly succeed in driving LJ out of the club if they carry on.

I think there were a few more than 11/12 at AG last week.

If LJ or any other player can be driven out by one or two loudmouths........and I think the young man's got more about him than that......then they may have to reconsider their future.There are loudmouths in all walks of life and industries.He should let his performances do the talking

[Atticus]

What is annoying me slightly in this debate is the happy clappers coming onto this forum and preety much demanding that every supporter should be supporting the way they do no matter what.

don't get me wrong I'm in no way advocating the abuse of individuals, certainly not in a weird vendetta way that a minority are doing, but thats all it is, a MINORITY of the supporters at ashton gate. Coming on this forum moaning at people that critisize a performance of a player as if they are the minority that are slagging individuals off at the gate is stupid, the chances of finding these "supporters" on this forum are slim lets face it.

Just because a person is unhappy about say, how LJ is performing for us and says so in this forum, it doesnt mean he is calling him a C### at the gate does it?

And to the people saying this is happening at Ashton gate more then any other football ground is living in some kind of dreamworld where they enjoy fans being like this, so it shows how much of a super supporter they are, imo. I recall the debate on how much Ashton Gate is a library before, and I seem to recall people saying this happens more at the Gate then any other, hmmm odd that.

Like I said, I don't attack individual players, I don't boo the team neither, but I am not going to be told to shut up, and clap the whole way through a match, singing praises if the football on display is woeful, people will always moan if the standard of football is terrible, where we know we could and should be playing so much better.

Its like anything in this world, you sing the praises if good, moan if bad.

Besides whose to say that constantly shouting "well done team, excellent playing so far!" when playing crap wont have an adverse effect on players??

they could quite easily think to themselves "well if there all happy, sit back and relax",though I'm not saying its happening here of course.

[Bristol Boy]

It is unfortunate that LJ is being picked on by certain sections of our crowd, but he is a good player and will rise above it.

I can remember when Gerry Gow was treated the same way, and Brian Tinnion was nearlly hounded out of the club, and they both

became Cult Heroes at the Gate.

Bingo Sir.

Better performances will silence the critics and those singling out LJ or whoever, will be silenced as they are succesful for City.

[Bristol Boy]

What is annoying me slightly in this debate is the happy clappers coming onto this forum and preety much demanding that every supporter should be supporting the way they do no matter what.

Agreed and there is no harm as I have said on numerous occassions in constructive criticism.

don't get me wrong I'm in no way advocating the abuse of individuals, certainly not in a weird vendetta way that a minority are doing, but thats all it is, a MINORITY of the supporters at ashton gate. Coming on this forum moaning at people that critisize a performance of a player as if they are the minority that are slagging individuals off at the gate is stupid, the chances of finding these "supporters" on this forum are slim lets face it.

Correct

Just because a person is unhappy about say, how LJ is performing for us and says so in this forum, it doesnt mean he is calling him a C### at the gate does it?

And to the people saying this is happening at Ashton gate more then any other football ground is living in some kind of dreamworld where they enjoy fans being like this, so it shows how much of a super supporter they are, imo. I recall the debate on how much Ashton Gate is a library before, and I seem to recall people saying this happens more at the Gate then any other, hmmm odd that.

That was the point of my original post.I still say Benitez gets more stick at L'Pool than GJ does here.

Like I said, I don't attack individual players, I don't boo the team neither, but I am not going to be told to shut up, and clap the whole way through a match, singing praises if the football on display is woeful, people will always moan if the standard of football is terrible, where we know we could and should be playing so much better.

Spot on and the answer to the issue, if there is one it's not major, is for the performance level to rise.When it does ala Crewe & Oldham you won't hear to many gripes before, during or after

Its like anything in this world, you sing the praises if good, moan if bad.

Besides whose to say that constantly shouting "well done team, excellent playing so far!" when playing crap wont have an adverse effect on players??

they could quite easily think to themselves "well if there all happy, sit back and relax",though I'm not saying its happening here of course.

Well said.

Lot of common sense in that.

[Nibor]

What is annoying me slightly in this debate is the happy clappers coming onto this forum and preety much demanding that every supporter should be supporting the way they do no matter what.

I'm just going to point out that my comments are specifically about people who are abusing individual players loudly and repeatedly during a game.

Constructive criticism is an entirely different thing and I would say that here is the right place for it to be debated.

[Atticus]

I'm just going to point out that my comments are specifically about people who are abusing individual players loudly and repeatedly during a game.

Constructive criticism is an entirely different thing and I would say that here is the right place for it to be debated.

Agreed and I wasnt pointing at you with that point, just what I have noticed in this forum currently.

We seem to try and blame each other whenever Bristol City hit bad form, which really if you think about it, is ridiculous, "to much harsh criticism" "not enough singing and atmoshphere", if people seriously think these effect the players dramatically enough to play terrible for a full 90 minutes have a low opinion on proffesional footballers in my opinion. They are big boys, and I know its harped on about alot but they chose this career with all the luxuries it comes with, they have to expect harsh jeers and boos from time to time.

Though I do agree that a really loud atmoshpere can change the tempo of a game, but I also feel that its very hard to do for any fan when there is nothing exciting going on, on the pitch.