Serious Question

[Guest DB Cooper]

You know that i'm not on here for a wind up and have silly digs at you, but i am interested as to why the atmosphere from you lot was so poor on Saturday.

I walked in the ground 10 mins before KO expecting the away end packed, noisy and buzzing. However, everyone i saw was sitting down quietly. I know you had the coach issue but as the game started, the atmoshpere only slightly improved.

During the game, everyone was sitting down and the buzz and noise from the away end was really disapointing.

I am genuinely asking why? I know the performance from your boys was poor but i was expecting a lot more......

????

[tin]

I thought we were really loud personally. Went a bit quiet when Forest took the lead, and obviously when we conceded but I thought we made quite a lot of noise.

Perhaps you need your ears checked? ;-)

Yeah I agree with that. I thought the atmosphere in our end was pretty good on Saturday. Where were you sat DB? Because at the Gate we can be making noise in the Atyeo and people don't hear it if you're sat down the other end of the ground...

[Bristol Boy]

Half the people weren't there, mate.

Some of them didn't arrive until half time and some later than that.

It was a poor performance from our team and most of us were pi$$ed off after being frog marched around the tube, The East London Line, videod, filmed, individually photographed, covered by sniffer dogs, asked for our name and date of birth (Refused Section 60) searched on leaving the pub, searched on entering the ground.

Think that covers it

[The Casual Connoisseur]

You know that i'm not on here for a wind up and have silly digs at you, but i am interested as to why the atmosphere from you lot was so poor on Saturday.

I walked in the ground 10 mins before KO expecting the away end packed, noisy and buzzing. However, everyone i saw was sitting down quietly. I know you had the coach issue but as the game started, the atmoshpere only slightly improved.

During the game, everyone was sitting down and the buzz and noise from the away end was really disapointing.

I am genuinely asking why? I know the performance from your boys was poor but i was expecting a lot more......

????

Without being rude I would have a look at your own club before having a go at us, your support was terrible and I have lost a lot of respect for Millwall since saturday, it certainly has changed.

I would be more scared of going to Disneyworld than the New Den. The chavs are an embarassment to the old school Milwall that I secretly had a lot of respect for.

[NiceRed]

I agree with the original post in a way in that I was slightly disappointed with the atmosphere. As explained above, there are several mitigating factors though. I'm also comparing the Millwall atmosphere to that at Carlisle the previous week, which was amazing, and would make any other game look quiet in comparison.

I did however think that the home support was by far the best I've seen all season (not much competition, mind!). Ok, as pointed out above, it may have been made by a bunch of little chavs (not sure how that differs from our crowd tbh), but what did you expect?! Are Millwall not allowed to have young fans? I'm sure that if you give them a few years they'll grow up into the "old-school" hoolies like their dads.

[Guest DB Cooper]

Yeah I agree with that. I thought the atmosphere in our end was pretty good on Saturday. Where were you sat DB? Because at the Gate we can be making noise in the Atyeo and people don't hear it if you're sat down the other end of the ground...

I was in the upper tier, right next to you.

When the game got stretched in the second half, the atmosphere improved, but what with this being your promotion game, i thought there would have been a real buzz about you lot, all standing, proper noise etc etc

Bristol Boy - What did they say when you refused to give details on a S60?

Wolf - I have read on here from a few people that our fans were quite noisy, no? And as for intimidating, you have in the back of your mind that you are going to walk down the walkway, safe as houses, then escorted by 20000 robocops through the tube.....a lot different to having to fend for yourself through the streets of Berms. It's like going to the zoo, you are not intimidated by the Lions in the cage, but i'd certainly feel a lot different if that cage wasnt there!!

I think terrible is a little silly don't you? It was a dead game for Millwall, end of season game with nothing to play for??

[bringbacktherobin]

18 Coaches getting to the ground from 15-40 minutes after kick off didnt help.

Do you have to be under 14 to stand next to the away fans at millwall now?

[Guest]

It was the roof you know

[Guest DB Cooper]

I agree with the original post in a way in that I was slightly disappointed with the atmosphere. As explained above, there are several mitigating factors though. I'm also comparing the Millwall atmosphere to that at Carlisle the previous week, which was amazing, and would make any other game look quiet in comparison.

I did however think that the home support was by far the best I've seen all season (not much competition, mind!). Ok, as pointed out above, it may have been made by a bunch of little chavs (not sure how that differs from our crowd tbh), but what did you expect?! Are Millwall not allowed to have young fans? I'm sure that if you give them a few years they'll grow up into the "old-school" hoolies like their dads.

Nice to see a bit of honesty.

The 'young chav' thing has been over played as well. There were some silly little herberts in the west lower, but there were also so old skool bods in there and in the west upper.

I'm glad we won, only for the reason that hopefully we can do it all again next season......with us second and you top!!

[dezgimed]

Was at the very back with a few lads off the coach..

Few dozen stood up in front of us..

The rest, sadly, sat in silence for most the game.

Definately the poorest vocal effort i've witnessed at an away game.

That Sunday game at Barnsley where we also needed to win was immense for 90 minutes, with greater numbers too.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

I was in the upper tier, right next to you.

When the game got stretched in the second half, the atmosphere improved, but what with this being your promotion game, i thought there would have been a real buzz about you lot, all standing, proper noise etc etc

Bristol Boy - What did they say when you refused to give details on a S60?

Wolf - I have read on here from a few people that our fans were quite noisy, no? And as for intimidating, you have in the back of your mind that you are going to walk down the walkway, safe as houses, then escorted by 20000 robocops through the tube.....a lot different to having to fend for yourself through the streets of Berms. It's like going to the zoo, you are not intimidated by the Lions in the cage, but i'd certainly feel a lot different if that cage wasnt there!!

I think terrible is a little silly don't you? It was a dead game for Millwall, end of season game with nothing to play for??

I walked down Rotherhithe new Road and Zampa Road to the ground, not intimidating at all, I wouldnt have done that a few years ago, sorry if that offends you but your not scary anymore.

[Flaxbourton Red]

Bristol Boy - What did they say when you refused to give details on a S60?

bristol boy's may day advice

clever

[Guest DB Cooper]

I walked down Rotherhithe new Road and Zampa Road to the ground, not intimidating at all, I wouldnt have done that a few years ago, sorry if that offends you but your not scary anymore.

OK mate, we aint scary anymore.......

I take it that you walked down Rotherhithe New Road, past the Jolly Gardeners, Bramcote and Golden Lion whilst with a big group of Bristol singing 'drink up thy cider'?

[Guest Jamie]

I think it has a lot to do with the 'type of supporters' that were there (I mean us, not Millwall) I think a lot of fans that would of wanted to make noise and have a laugh were not there unlike up at Carlisle. Up at Carlisle every single man and his dog were cheering City on even when lossing, which I think is also due to the fact of the distance and everyone was there for the laugh. Where as at Millwall I think it was more of a crowd that just turned up wanting to just see City win the game and get promotion.

P.S. No offence at all towards the City fan's that were at Millwall I know it doesn't make you more of less of a fan of Bristol City if you are cheering or not, but I hope you understand what I ment above!

[Guest DB Cooper]

I think it has a lot to do with the 'type of supporters' that were there (I mean us, not Millwall) I think a lot of fans that would of wanted to make noise and have a laugh were not there unlike up at Carlisle. Up at Carlisle every single man and his dog were cheering City on even when lossing, which I think is also due to the fact of the distance and everyone was there for the laugh. Where as at Millwall I think it was more of a crowd that just turned up wanting to just see City win the game and get promotion.

P.S. No offence at all towards the City fan's that were at Millwall I know it doesn't make you more of less of a fan of Bristol City if you are cheering or not, but I hope you understand what I ment above!

Good points mate

Maybe the expectation of promotion?

I wasn't and haven't had a dig at City, i've always respected you as a club.

Was just surprised thats all

[Guest DB Cooper]

It's also ironic that our coaches never made it to Ashton Gate in December because they got lost!

How the #### can you get lost going from London to Bristol???

[cider11]

I was sat in the home end, in the east stand upper, and almost as far away from the away end you can get from up there, and at times i could hear the away end. but normally where i was as soon as any noise was being made millwall starting chanting or doing that milllllllll sound so that seemed to drown out any noise that seemed to be made. I know there wasnt much to shout anout really all game, but like beginining of first and 2nd halves heard some noise, which was the loudest. I think loudest chant was when orient 1-0 up.

[tin]

It's also ironic that our coaches never made it to Ashton Gate in December because they got lost!

How the #### can you get lost going from London to Bristol???

Dunno if that's true because I made the walk over from Hotwells at 2.45pm that day and saw a largish mob of Millwall being marched in a police escort down the Cumberland Basin. I thought that explained the late comers to the Gate myself...

Agree with your second point though. It really isn't hard to get 100 odd miles from the capital to Bristol, or visa versa.

[Andy082005]

You know that i'm not on here for a wind up and have silly digs at you, but i am interested as to why the atmosphere from you lot was so poor on Saturday.

I walked in the ground 10 mins before KO expecting the away end packed, noisy and buzzing. However, everyone i saw was sitting down quietly. I know you had the coach issue but as the game started, the atmoshpere only slightly improved.

During the game, everyone was sitting down and the buzz and noise from the away end was really disapointing.

I am genuinely asking why? I know the performance from your boys was poor but i was expecting a lot more......

????

I agree with you, I thought the atmosphere from us was poor at best.

I cant speak for everyone else, but the whole coach fiasco ruined my day. Even if we had won the game, it would have slightly tainted it. I got in the ground, and even once I was sat down I was still fuming at the debacle and I found the atmosphere hard to get into

If we had been there from 2pm onwards, we would have had chance to soak it up a bit more

Thats how I felt anyway

I would also just like to add that your home support was impressive for a "nothing" game. Its nice to see an all seater stadium rocking......as for the chavs, for how annoying they were, thats what makes the games and winning even more special....its all about the banter (although one or two went a bit OTT, but hey, never mind)

[Bristol Boy]

Bristol Boy - What did they say when you refused to give details on a S60?

This is what happend when I left the pub opposite the Blind Beggar on Saturday

Firstly fans had to file out in single file through two ranks of SPG (Or whatever they're called these days)

At that point your were videod & photographed-individually

Female Officer:Name & DOB?

BB:No-I respectfully decline to give that information.Can you confirm that you have a legal right to it at this juncture and why I am being photographed when I haven't been cautioned or committed an offence.Do you suspect that I have committed an offence?

Female Office:No, Please step over here to be searched

BB:Why are you searching me?

Female Officer:Because you're a football fan.

BB:How do you know?

Female Officer:Because you're in there

BB:So are the locals, how do you know I'm a football fan and not a local?

Female Officer:If you don't like it, stop going to football.

BB:I don't like it and I'm going to the football.When I was in the services many years ago we couldn't stop & search people without reasonable cause-What reasonable cause do you have to stop & search me?

Female Officer:What do you want us to do, Wait until someone is stabbed, then react??

BB:Well that's normal procedure with Bombings isn't it?? Do you intend stopping everyone one one the march that's just gone past (About Education Cuts) on the basis that they MIGHT commit an offence? Now or perhaps years in the future?? By the way, how am I going to stab someone?

Female Officer:You could have had a knife

BB:I could have cemtex, but it's highly unlikely and if I'd known I was going to be searched don't you think I'd have left it in the pub??

Female Officer:I'm not continuing this conversation.

BB:Long words to difficult, for you??

OOOOHHHHH the look I got?

In fairness most of the OB were sound and they were as pi$$ed off as us as having to sit on a tube covered in body armour when it was 90 degrees down there.

In terms of the atmosphere, it wasn't a patch on the Old Den but it was OK-Noisy enough without being intimidating.

[Guest tommy doc]

You know that i'm not on here for a wind up and have silly digs at you, but i am interested as to why the atmosphere from you lot was so poor on Saturday.

I walked in the ground 10 mins before KO expecting the away end packed, noisy and buzzing. However, everyone i saw was sitting down quietly. I know you had the coach issue but as the game started, the atmoshpere only slightly improved.

During the game, everyone was sitting down and the buzz and noise from the away end was really disapointing.

I am genuinely asking why? I know the performance from your boys was poor but i was expecting a lot more......

????

The coaches and the nerves.

[cider head]

pi$$ed off after being frog marched around the tube, The East London Line, videod, filmed, individually photographed, covered by sniffer dogs, asked for our name and date of birth (Refused Section 60) searched on leaving the pub, searched on entering the ground.

Think that covers it

yep that was not great.

one plus from the police was they were playing head tennis with us on the tube and singing along to ''we hate millwall''.

I didn't agree with the filming etc but i have seen worse coppers around the country then down there.

[Nibor]

This is what happend when I left the pub opposite the Blind Beggar on Saturday

Firstly fans had to file out in single file through two ranks of SPG (Or whatever they're called these days)

At that point your were videod & photographed-individually

Female Officer:Name & DOB?

BB:No-I respectfully decline to give that information.Can you confirm that you have a legal right to it at this juncture and why I am being photographed when I haven't been cautioned or committed an offence.Do you suspect that I have committed an offence?

Female Office:No, Please step over here to be searched

BB:Why are you searching me?

Female Officer:Because you're a football fan.

BB:How do you know?

Female Officer:Because you're in there

BB:So are the locals, how do you know I'm a football fan and not a local?

Female Officer:If you don't like it, stop going to football.

BB:I don't like it and I'm going to the football.When I was in the services many years ago we couldn't stop & search people without reasonable cause-What reasonable cause do you have to stop & search me?

Female Officer:What do you want us to do, Wait until someone is stabbed, then react??

BB:Well that's normal procedure with Bombings isn't it?? Do you intend stopping everyone one one the march that's just gone past (About Education Cuts) on the basis that they MIGHT commit an offence? Now or perhaps years in the future?? By the way, how am I going to stab someone?

Female Officer:You could have had a knife

BB:I could have cemtex, but it's highly unlikely and if I'd known I was going to be searched don't you think I'd have left it in the pub??

Female Officer:I'm not continuing this conversation.

BB:Long words to difficult, for you??

OOOOHHHHH the look I got?

In fairness most of the OB were sound and they were as pi$$ed off as us as having to sit on a tube covered in body armour when it was 90 degrees down there.

In terms of the atmosphere, it wasn't a patch on the Old Den but it was OK-Noisy enough without being intimidating.

Well I'm glad you gave them some shit back. If more people actually knew their rights they wouldn't get away with it.

It's absolutely disgraceful that in the case of Football supporters the plod are allowed to ignore the basic human right of presumption of innocence. The politicians aren't interested, nor do the media seem to be. I guess if you were an asylum seeking one legged lesbian with ADD they might be?

I highly recommend asking the dumb copper for written details of the Data Controller next time they photograph you, and quoting the data protection act at them when they give you a blank look.

That or pulling out a mobile and taking a photo back, and asking for their name and d.o.b too. They love that.

[BS3_RED]

I have just had a look on line to see what rights the police have and this is what i have found

> home - action - mayday - s60

Legal Advice: Section 60

important note: be sure to read legal update below

At N30 and Mayday 2000 in London, riot police cordoned off the demonstration, corralling large numbers of people into an increasing confined area before taking their names, addresses and photographs, eventually releasing them one by one. This was done under the obscure Section 60 of the Criminal Justice & Public Order Act 1994 (originally designed to prevent minor football disturbances).

The S60 order is a new police tactic at major demonstrations used effectively to control, subdue and gain personal information about protesters despite having the extraordinarily limited power simply to "Stop and search in anticipation of violence".

Its effectiveness in the past was due to the fact that no-one knew just exactly what powers the police had under S60. As it turns out, they have very few powers.

In the event of an S60 order being issued on Mayday 2001, these are the important things to remember: The police have the power to search you for weapons (and dangerous instruments). They have no other powers under S60. They can only detain you "for as long as necessary to carry out a search".

They have no legal power to force you to give them your name and address. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES give it to them: it will be kept on file for SEVEN years. When asked, say "NO COMMENT".

They have no legal power to force you to have your photograph taken. Do not allow them to do this. This too will be kept on file for SEVEN years. Keep your head turned away, or put your hand in front of your face.

They have no legal power to ask you to remove any item of clothing in public view, OTHER THAN that which is concealing your identity. Any facial masking can be confiscated.

If you are asked to remove coats/jumpers etc, REFUSE OUTRIGHT. They have no legal power to search wallets, purses, inside small pockets etc. This is an S60 search, for weapons only. If they ask to search wallets, purses, inside small pockets etc, REFUSE OUTRIGHT.

If you have a bag they will search that, but again for weapons only. Any other items, documents, potentially incriminating articles are OFF LIMITS.

Do not allow them to examine any of your personal possessions (cash cards, student cards, diaries, organisers etc). This is not part of S60. Under Article 8 of the UK Human Rights Act 1998 your privacy is assured. Make sure they know this. They can only confiscate weapons and facial masking.

They have the power to use "reasonable force" but ONLY if you do not submit to a search. No other force can be used for any other purpose.

They must tell you their name, number, station they're based at the reason for the search. Ask them for this. Not only will it piss them, off but if they don't provide this information the search will be illegal. Remember: in an S60 situation, you are accused of nothing and you have done nothing wrong. DO NOT ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, however insignificant or polite. SAY "NO COMMENT" to everything.

Most of all, DON'T BE SCARED BY THEM! They know the law, and now so do you. USE IT!

[NickJ]

Half the people weren't there, mate.

Some of them didn't arrive until half time and some later than that.

It was a poor performance from our team and most of us were pi$$ed off after being frog marched around the tube, The East London Line, videod, filmed, individually photographed, covered by sniffer dogs, asked for our name and date of birth (Refused Section 60) searched on leaving the pub, searched on entering the ground.

Think that covers it

I was in the Blind Beggar, gave my name and dob because I didnt realise you could refuse. Will know better next time.

Had to laugh, they even asked my dad, and he's 70!

To be fair to the police, I thought they were pretty good, one even came into the toilets and advised anyone with any gear to hide it down their trousers before coming out, which you could say was either sensible policing or failing in his duty, depending on your perspective.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

OK mate, we aint scary anymore.......

I take it that you walked down Rotherhithe New Road, past the Jolly Gardeners, Bramcote and Golden Lion whilst with a big group of Bristol singing 'drink up thy cider'?

No I was with two others, just telling you.

Why is it that the majority of Millwall fans have the biggest chip on their shoulder about being the hardest fans on the planet. Sad.