Super Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Plane from Amsterdam to KL shot down on the Russia / Ukraine border. Let the blame game begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Shot down or crashed? I've not read anything suggesting it's been shot down yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted July 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Shot down or crashed? I've not read anything suggesting it's been shot down yet Sky news saying shot down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 http://news.sky.com/story/1302864/malaysian-plane-shot-down-with-295-on-board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Sky news saying shot down. Could be either side, both probably got the same kit which is capable of taking something at that altitude out of the sky. Shit storm approaching..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Malaysian Airlines appear to be jinxed of late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Been watching Sky News, they can't make their mind up. At one point they were saying it's almost certainly a bomb or an accident, then they went back to its almost certainly a rocket. Russia Today commentator reckoned an accident, so it's definitely not the Ukrainian military... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome To The Jungle Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 The way they're urgently redirecting air traffic implies that there is a military problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted July 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Does make you wonder why planes were flying over there in the first place. 9 Brits on the plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 They reckon the Yanks are studying spy satellite data and will know with certainty who the perpetrator is, if of course there is a perpetrator fairly sharpish. Edit:- Being reported 23 yanks and 10 Brits on board, can't see the Yanks letting go of this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 What the ****? Crazy, ****** up world we live in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 They reckon the Yanks are studying spy satellite data and will know with certainty who the perpetrator is, if of course there is a perpetrator fairly. Yeah, heard that on the BBC News. Security high definition satelite images will show exactly what happened. How soon ( if ever ) that information is made public is another issue altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Definitely looking like rocket fire from the rebels. **** knows what's going to happen now, but I imagine this is the end of the revolution in Eastern Ukraine. I imagine the EU and the US will demand blood for this and I don't think Russia will be able to stand in their way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Hard to do much more than supply more intelligence data. I'd be surprised IF NATO countries even send over some drones. Looks like they may have been targeting a UAF Antanov transport but the missle ended up hitting the civilian plane. In any case, I suspect that this is the end for the rebels, as surely the flow of decent hardware from Russia is about to end, just as they seemed to be getting back the initiative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Hard to do much more than supply more intelligence data. I'd be surprised IF NATO countries even send over some drones. Looks like they may have been targeting a UAF Antanov transport but the missle ended up hitting the civilian plane. In any case, I suspect that this is the end for the rebels, as surely the flow of decent hardware from Russia is about to end, just as they seemed to be getting back the initiative. Putin certainly has got questions to answer like supplying the rebels with these types of weapons in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Russia trying to portray it was aimed at Putins plane that flew over about half hour earlier... Hmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Putin certainly has got questions to answer like supplying the rebels with these types of weapons in the first place. It looks like they may have captured it on a raid on a government-controlled air field last month, but clearly they've been getting support from Russia that has led to a situation where this could happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Does make you wonder why planes were flying over there in the first place. 9 Brits on the plane. They were flying nine and a half miles high. You do not expect insurgents to have the technology to blow up a plane at that height, you need top military spec hardware to do that. And I can't think where they might have got that from..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Either way, the separatists have no planes, so Ukrainians would not be shooting at them. There were reports of social media activity of separatists gleefuly gloating they had taken down another ukrainian plane, before it quickly being pulled. Putin I think may have something to answer and take away the supply of hardware to the eastern Ukrainians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 General consensus of various analysts and experts seem to be that regardless of where they got the rockets from, the separatists would have needed training or assistance to actually fire the thing properly. I think Russia and Putin are in for an uncomfortable few days to say the least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 General consensus of various analysts and experts seem to be that regardless of where they got the rockets from, the separatists would have needed training or assistance to actually fire the thing properly. I think Russia and Putin are in for an uncomfortable few days to say the least... These separatist are not a rag tag bunch, many are highly trained military figures, as long as someone provides the hardware, they will be able to fire it. Lets not forget, many have been in both the Russian and Ukrainian army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 These separatist are not a rag tag bunch, many are highly trained military figures, as long as someone provides the hardware, they will be able to fire it. Lets not forget, many have been in both the Russian and Ukrainian army Fair point, but I think they would have to be specifically trained on the equipment. It's certainly not beyond the realms though that the correctly trained person was roaming the countryside with an Ak47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Fair point, but I think they would have to be specifically trained on the equipment. It's certainly not beyond the realms though that the correctly trained person was roaming the countryside with an Ak47 Almost certainly they have well trained people,we have seen plenty of footage of them driving tanks etc, not something you can just jump in and drive. Putin will for once,imo, be feeling the heat over this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Russia trying to portray it was aimed at Putins plane that flew over about half hour earlier... Hmm I very much doubt Putin would be flying over Ukrainian air space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 it was the russians they know it was and are now doing everything in the power to shift the blame, We know the yanks won't stand for it so expect the whole region to go up know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 interestingly Putin has blamed Ukraine for the troubles but not directly for downing this plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 interestingly Putin has blamed Ukraine for the troubles but not directly for downing this plane. of course he has, because the russians did it and he knows it, the next thing the russians will do if europe finally decide to sanction them is switch the gas supply off, which is why the europians of so scared of following the americans head long (that and the fact they lied about iraq), sadly the situation in ukraine there is now way out ether russia pushes deeper into the country and start world war 3 or the sepratists continue their gurilla warfare and we will see many more thousends of innocents killed, This is the west's version of whats happening in Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 interestingly Putin has blamed Ukraine for the troubles but not directly for downing this plane. That's standard though; the Russians have maintained that the separatists they've armed and assisted are a peace- loving bunch who just want to be left alone and that it's Ukrainian aggression that's causing the problems there. He's also said it's the Kiev governments responsibility to keep order in their airspace, despite the fact that Russian jets have been flying in it in recent days and the Russians have supplied the hardware to keep Ukraine out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 interestingly Putin has blamed Ukraine for the troubles but not directly for downing this plane. That seems a fair assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 hmmmm moscow have the blackbox apparantly, so we all know who will get the blame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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