LondonBristolian Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 18 minutes ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said: What parts do you find embarrassing, of course there is no evidence to back up what I said, but do we know what goes on in the backroom of the club? only what they want to tell us and not what we want to know. This goes on in all high profile business and SL was in and still in one, I still don't understand and no one has given a possible reason for LJ negotiating a release clause from his contract with Barnsley. I have heard this often with players contracts, but not with Managers. As I asked in my previous post, was it because he thought he would be so successful that a bigger club would want his services, personally, I don't think so, or as I said, that he already knew SL would be appointing him as Head Coach, sooner rather than later. I know it's all if's and maybes, but it could be why he is here and we will never know the real truth. you are entitled to disagree with me, that's what the forum is all about Having an opinion is absolutely fine. Suggesting that the owner was trying to engineer the team's failure and risk relegation in order to sack the manager without having evidence is not. That's not stating an opinion. It's baselessly slandering someone's integrity and that's a pretty awful thing to do unless you have anything to substantiate the allegation. Most of us would accept SL and the board have made mistakes this season but there's a massive difference between that and suggesting deliberate sabotage and I really don't think that's on. I'm sure it won't happen because I doubt he's the Karl Oyston type but, if SL chose to sue you for libel over what you posted, he'd be well within his rights and could very possibly win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 3 minutes ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said: What parts do you find embarrassing, of course there is no evidence to back up what I said, but do we know what goes on in the backroom of the club? only what they want to tell us and not what we want to know. This goes on in all high profile business and SL was in and still in one, I still don't understand and no one has given a possible reason for LJ negotiating a release clause from his contract with Barnsley. I have heard this often with players contracts, but not with Managers. As I asked in my previous post, was it because he thought he would be so successful that a bigger club would want his services, personally, I don't think so, or as I said, that he already knew SL would be appointing him as Head Coach, sooner rather than later. I know it's all if's and maybes, but it could be why he is here and we will never know the real truth. you are entitled to disagree with me, that's what the forum is all about You're right; other than those behind the scenes and directly involved, we can't say for sure what had taken place with all the decision making. But the elements you're linking up (LJ negotiating a release clause, our dodgy summer, the sacking of SC and subsequent appointment of LJ) don't to me connect together into some wider conspiracy. LJ had already been poached by one club in his short career, and was being touted as a bright young coach at that level; that considered, it is entirety plausible that LJ felt it would help him to have a fixed fee but out clause, to allow him to move on if successful with no expectations of where that would be. It's not unheard of in manager contracts, even if you'd not heard of it before, and if what I've heard is true, there have even been instances where managers have agreed with their clubs they can move without compensation, if it is to a club in a higher division. And anyway; at the time we were walking the division - why would LJ think he was on a promise to come here? If he was going to do as you suggest, he could have just walked away; would save SL a lot of money. As for the plan to replace SC in the summer; I'm sceptical. It is widely accepted SC was very popular with the squad, and even if they weren't BBF, I don't think SL would be looking to upset what I think we all felt was a team capable of establishing a beach head at the next level, albeit with a few additions. We may never know what happened this summer; the 'ITK' information on here has been contradictory at best, and down right confusing at worst. But put simply; under SC post-summer 2014 we signed one permanent player for the first team, which everyone knew was not enough. Again: you can blame the board and link it with lots of other events, but for me it again comes down to the "two to tango" thing - I've little doubt that there was a difference of opinion or several, resulting in us not getting what the squad needed, but if it was all as planned as you say, then I've little doubt SL would have slung SC right then in order to get what you say he wanted. SC would not have stayed in place as long as he did without the backing of the board. For me a simpler and more reactionary rather than conspiratorial explanation is that after a year of struggling to get in players, possible due to SC not wanting those offered (al la Cox and co.) and a bad first half of the season where we clearly needed reinforcments, the club decided to rehire Mark Ashton, who let us not forget was behind the recruitment strategy put in place in 2014. SC didn't fancy this, and was told that this was the direction the club was going in, as the approach to recruitment used this year wasn't working. He disagreed, he was sacked, and at that point we needed to fill his job (plus we immediately brought in players, some of which I don't think SC would have signed as they wouldn't fit his system). As I say; respect your opinion, but just think you assign too much fiendish cunning to SL and the board. The great phrase oft used in journalism is "never confuse cock-ups with conspiracies" and I think in this instance, where we've arrived at is a product of the former not the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 3 hours ago, pongo88 said: I find it interesting, though perhaps typical, that we've got a poll on the forum about when Lee Johnson will be sacked. Particularly as he only started on Saturday! Wouldn't it be nice if we all said when we thought he will get City into the Premiership. I'll go for the end of the 2017-18 season. But then we are labelled as "deluded" and thinking we are bigger than we are and a sleeping giant ant and Rovers get all agitated and all that (I reckon 2018-19 btw) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackIKnowski Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I'm gutted angry and disgusted by appointment. I think it is a clear and unadulterated indication of :- a) the clubs true ambition b) how crazy football clubs are when appointing managers Nigel Pearson got promoted and built the team top of premier league-and is totally get-table. He was the obvious choice. And there are others mentioned here. And other not like Paul Jewell. Massive experience in comparison. M But hey Man Utd appointed Moyes having won NOTHING. Mourinho was available and most successful (active ) premier league manager ever. Mental. I have ZERO doubt LJ he will be gone within 12 months. I'd prefer his Dad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveller Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 What a ludicrous conspiracy theory from ETR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EstoniaTallinnRed Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 11 hours ago, LondonBristolian said: Having an opinion is absolutely fine. Suggesting that the owner was trying to engineer the team's failure and risk relegation in order to sack the manager without having evidence is not. That's not stating an opinion. It's baselessly slandering someone's integrity and that's a pretty awful thing to do unless you have anything to substantiate the allegation. Most of us would accept SL and the board have made mistakes this season but there's a massive difference between that and suggesting deliberate sabotage and I really don't think that's on. I'm sure it won't happen because I doubt he's the Karl Oyston type but, if SL chose to sue you for libel over what you posted, he'd be well within his rights and could very possibly win. Where did I say he was trying to engineer the teams failure, or deliberate sabotage, I didn't say anything like that, you are reading into it what you want to read. I said that he possibly thought that SC was not the manager to take BC further and the fact that they very possibly didn't see eye to eye and gave him enough rope so he could hang himself, which in the end happened. Why did he bring MA in? He knew SC would not work with him and as I said before this led to the bust up and eventually sacking. Also you have not given any reasons why LJ should have insisted on a release clause in his contract with Barnsley, did he have a release clause in his contract with Oldham, does he have a release clause in his contract with City? Can you give me a good reason for this, other than the fact he knew about a possible job with City, or it was pre arranged. All I am saying is who knows, but something does not add up here and I defy you to give me a logical answer to these events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 35 minutes ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said: Where did I say he was trying to engineer the teams failure, or deliberate sabotage, I didn't say anything like that, you are reading into it what you want to read. I said that he possibly thought that SC was not the manager to take BC further and the fact that they very possibly didn't see eye to eye and gave him enough rope so he could hang himself, which in the end happened. Why did he bring MA in? He knew SC would not work with him and as I said before this led to the bust up and eventually sacking. Also you have not given any reasons why LJ should have insisted on a release clause in his contract with Barnsley, did he have a release clause in his contract with Oldham, does he have a release clause in his contract with City? Can you give me a good reason for this, other than the fact he knew about a possible job with City, or it was pre arranged. All I am saying is who knows, but something does not add up here and I defy you to give me a logical answer to these events. You said "the lack of signings in the summer was, I think orchestrated by SL". Given where we are now is due the lack of signing, you're saying SL deliberately created a situation where we had a weak squad and risked relegation. That's not me reading into anything. It's literally what you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EstoniaTallinnRed Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said: You said "the lack of signings in the summer was, I think orchestrated by SL". Given where we are now is due the lack of signing, you're saying SL deliberately created a situation where we had a weak squad and risked relegation. That's not me reading into anything. It's literally what you are saying. I am not going to argue with you anymore, you obviously don't understand or don't want to understand what I am saying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 5 hours ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said: I am not going to argue with you anymore, you obviously don't understand or don't want to understand what I am saying! I understand what you're saying perfectly well. But you don't seem to have noticed one part of it is basically libel and the other part is so spurious and speculative it's not worth replying to. The fact somebody hasn't felt the need to talk you through the ins and outs of a private employment contract is not the basis for a conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EstoniaTallinnRed Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 7 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: I understand what you're saying perfectly well. But you don't seem to have noticed one part of it is basically libel and the other part is so spurious and speculative it's not worth replying to. The fact somebody hasn't felt the need to talk you through the ins and outs of a private employment contract is not the basis for a conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 On 07/02/2016 at 15:29, GrahamC said: Modern football is full of beards. Looks like a bloody polar explorers convention in the Prem.. Five new signings - five beards (think I've got that right ). And a new, unshaven head coach now. That Mark Ashton though: clean shaven, good lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said: Five new signings - five beards (think I've got that right ). And a new, unshaven head coach now. That Mark Ashton though: clean shaven, good lad. They should be commended as they are just carrying out the edict from the bishop of London, bless em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 3 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said: Five new signings - five beards (think I've got that right ). And a new, unshaven head coach now. That Mark Ashton though: clean shaven, good lad. Waggy needs to lose his though. He looks like one of Jedward with their head on upside down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Johnson's got three months - finish below Forest Green and then blow the play offs, and he's gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bs4Red Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Personally think he's a great choice and I will stand by that. Young, enthusiastic, hungry and passionate about the club. Could be a really good future here for LJ and our club. I really hope the club and fans give him time, he may not have experience at this level but I have every faith he will prove the doubters wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingswood red Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 15 minutes ago, Bs4Red said: Personally think he's a great choice and I will stand by that. Young, enthusiastic, hungry and passionate about the club. Could be a really good future here for LJ and our club. I really hope the club and fans give him time, he may not have experience at this level but I have every faith he will prove the doubters wrong Just how much time do you think we have? Does relegation not matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bs4Red Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 1 hour ago, kingswood red said: Just how much time do you think we have? Does relegation not matter? We won't get relegated. He will keep us up. Once he does, he deserves time to build and consolidate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midlands Robin Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Here's a thread worth bumping to look at some of our thoughts then and how we feel now. There's no denying LJ split opinions when he arrived. Less than 50% in the poll were happy to have him here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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