Red-Robbo Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Just now, MarkRed! said: Agreed.... but it serves to illustrate why the recruitment of an experienced manager is necessary in this league. Many commentators also felt McInnes was "up and coming"..... I still think he was hamstrung by the board....and he said as much in his interview and of being bitterly disappointed..... At the time McInnes was an odd appointment, as was Millen, as was O'Driscoll. All were heralded by the board as the #1 choice - because they agreed to operate with board interferences.... He was hardly going to admit: "I was out-of-my-depth and brought in a load of nondies!" It's easy to look on appointments with hindsight: all managers are up-and-coming at some point and many succeed in divisions above their experience level. Conversely, "old-stagers" often are hopelessly set in their ways and out-of-touch and living off the back of past glories. Most of us (Otib) welcomed McInnes, most thought SOD was a good appointment. Cotterill was slated to high heaven by the majority here, but gave us our most enjoyable season for years and got us out the L1 mire. You just cannot guarantee anyone is going to work. As a club we've made big strides towards being a more professional outfit, but at the end of the day, it's down to 11 men over the course of 90 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 10 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: He was hardly going to admit: "I was out-of-my-depth and brought in a load of nondies!" It's easy to look on appointments with hindsight: all managers are up-and-coming at some point and many succeed in divisions above their experience level. Conversely, "old-stagers" often are hopelessly set in their ways and out-of-touch and living off the back of past glories. Most of us (Otib) welcomed McInnes, most thought SOD was a good appointment. Cotterill was slated to high heaven by the majority here, but gave us our most enjoyable season for years and got us out the L1 mire. You just cannot guarantee anyone is going to work. As a club we've made big strides towards being a more professional outfit, but at the end of the day, it's down to 11 men over the course of 90 minutes. Reasonable balanced comments on our managerial situations? Surely that deserves a ban for life form OTIB... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedorDead BCFC Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 I was told that the signing of Morris was in the same vain of when Leeds bought Vinny Jones They bought him in due to player power so bring in a player to try and disband it. Think it's highlighted in Wilkinsons book, who he wanted bringing down. Mind you Jody Morris would not be as intimidating as Vinny Jones, so even back then we was too soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerseybean Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 http://www.managerstats.co.uk/clubs/bristol-city/ Have a look at the stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider Army Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 26 minutes ago, Shtanley said: The worst thing about all of it is that we were 6th after 15 games and for no clear reason it's completely switched. City had been top of the league with mcinnes then it went pair shaped..Again this season 5 or 6th in the league then suddenly bang we hit rock bottom and free fall? Why? because things seem to repeat themselves far to often..For me it's experience and how to manage a squad and keep it consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkRed! Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 1 minute ago, RedorDead BCFC said: I was told that the signing of Morris was in the same vain of when Leeds bought Vinny Jones (think it's highlighted in Wilkinsons book) . They bought him in due to player power so bring in a player to try and disband it. Mind you Jody Morris would not be as intimidating as Vinny Jones, so even back then we was too soft. That is right and whilst I was no fan of DM - he did not have 15 million to spend. Most of the players in those squads were still from the Johnson, Coppell and Millen era.... ultimately, LJ has far better resources and if he don't beat forest, he will surpass DM and have the worst losing run in our history.... gutting, really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 20 minutes ago, Cider Army said: City had been top of the league with mcinnes then it went pair shaped..Again this season 5 or 6th in the league then suddenly bang we hit rock bottom and free fall? Why? because things seem to repeat themselves far to often..For me it's experience and how to manage a squad and keep it consistent. Yeah but nowhere near to 15 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider Army Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, Shtanley said: Yeah but nowhere near to 15 games. Agreed 15 games is shocking to say the least..can't see it improving either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinman85 Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 1 hour ago, MarkRed! said: If you remember, McInnes came out and criticised his time at BCFC and said that it was like "Zulu" when he first went to training - he could not believe the number of 1st team squad players. To be fair to DM he tried to cull the squad and he certainly was not given 15 million. I also have it on very good authority that he was given the team sheet by JL and told who to play...... The bottom line is that it was only when SC came in (no nonsense, abrasive) that all of that changed. SC knocked down the 5 pillars and did it his way... the owner et al could not do anything given the precarious state of the team when he joined..... SC was responsible for the change in mentality and it was such a shame that he was not afforded the same backing as LJ..... If Cotts had had the same backing as Johnson with Ashton involved I wager we would be higher then we are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkRed! Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Just now, tinman85 said: If Cotts had had the same backing as Johnson with Ashton involved I wager we would be higher then we are now. Cotts would not have worked with Ashton and that is one of the reasons he left - results provided a good smokescreen to get rid of him too. There was clearly a difference in opinion on how players should be recruited.... SL has said as much. When appointed SC made a point of being the "manager" and not a "head coach".....If SC had been given 15 million and the players he wanted then I think we would be better off. SC is plainly the better manager - no contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EstoniaTallinnRed Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 1 hour ago, MarkRed! said: LJ has one of the best squads we have assembled and I cannot remember us spending 15 million on the team + wages. The reality is that all of the sides around us have spent nothing. Totally abject the past 3 months and I think the clock is ticking. For me LJ has to go. But, in a previous post I felt he needed 9 points from our next 5 games (Cardiff, Forest, Villa, Wednesday and Rotherham). The pressure is thus on. I think if we lose to Forest we could well be in the bottom 3 by the time Wednesday arrive. Final game could be Rotherham.... but by then we could be adrift. Very very sad. I had hoped LJ could turn it around but his last two team selections have been diabolical.... personally feel we are about to witness his last stand.... Ps: lose to Fleetwood and the pressure will only intensify....... I agree! And Fleetwood will be well up for it as they have already beaten the Gas and will want to get a double against Bristol clubs. The chance of a forth round match at Burnley will also make them more determined than us. IMHO, I can't see us getting a result there, confidence is shot and they will come at us and we will have to defend and we all know how good we are at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoldenBall Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 As much as I disliked Mciness it;s hard to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 57 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: He was hardly going to admit: "I was out-of-my-depth and brought in a load of nondies!" It's easy to look on appointments with hindsight: all managers are up-and-coming at some point and many succeed in divisions above their experience level. Conversely, "old-stagers" often are hopelessly set in their ways and out-of-touch and living off the back of past glories. Most of us (Otib) welcomed McInnes, most thought SOD was a good appointment. Cotterill was slated to high heaven by the majority here, but gave us our most enjoyable season for years and got us out the L1 mire. You just cannot guarantee anyone is going to work. As a club we've made big strides towards being a more professional outfit, but at the end of the day, it's down to 11 men over the course of 90 minutes. You've nailed it son Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redandy Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 2 hours ago, WestonRobin said: Who brought most of those players to the club? Pretty sure for all those mentioned it was McInnes...at least LJ has performed much better in the transfer market. So, whilst neither have a great record and both will give Ranieri a 'run' for the Tinkerman nickname LJ gets the nod as a slightly better manager as a result of the transfer dealings. What is the point of Johnson performing well in the transfer market if he doesn't know what to do when he has signed a player. We have a good squad more than capable of staying on this league. But in the hands of Johnson we are a shambles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 4 hours ago, Superjack said: He has before. To be fair the point of SOD was don't go home without a fight. SOD couldn't motivate the team enough to actually do it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 4 hours ago, WestonRobin said: Who brought most of those players to the club? Pretty sure for all those mentioned it was McInnes...at least LJ has performed much better in the transfer market... Nah, Liam Fontaine joined us five years before Derek McInnes was appointed manager and Woolford joined us ten months before DM arrived. McGivern joined just before Del was appointed too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Dear oh dear, get a grip son. DMC chose Adomah over Bolasie, signed McGivern & not only did he sign McManus once just to make sure he signed him again. Arguably HE had the better players at his disposal Adomah, Baldock, Micky Naynard, Skuse, Heaton, Stead, Steven Davis, Pittman, Carey & Bolasie. The trouble is he also had McManus, Bates, Wolford & McGivern. With every rose there is always a few pricks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 4 hours ago, Jerseybean said: http://www.managerstats.co.uk/clubs/bristol-city/ Have a look at the stats. Wow I mean 40% is generally a fine win ratio for a manager...that's very high for the position we're in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, REDOXO said: To be fair the point of SOD was don't go home without a fight. SOD couldn't motivate the team enough to actually do it though And here we are again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 4 hours ago, Cider Army said: Agreed 15 games is shocking to say the least..can't see it improving either. No I mean after 15 games with McCinnes we weren't anywhere near the top of the league :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Superjack said: And here we are again... With what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAGa Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 SC was let down by our board who let him take all the flak. Reap what we sow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerseybean Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Wow I mean 40% is generally a fine win ratio for a manager...that's very high for the position we're in. I was also astonished by Alan Dicks overall percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 8 hours ago, Swede said: Dear oh dear, get a grip son. DMC chose Adomah over Bolasie, signed McGivern & not only did he sign McManus once just to make sure he signed him again. Arguably HE had the better players at his disposal Adomah, Baldock, Micky Naynard, Skuse, Heaton, Stead, Steven Davis, Pittman, Carey & Bolasie. The trouble is he also had McManus, Bates, Wolford & McGivern. With every rose there is always a few pricks. And Cunningham, another solid Championship player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Squirrel Kingdom Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Jerseybean said: I was also astonished by Alan Dicks overall percentage. Win percentage is a load of old guff that's been 'borrowed' from baseball and American football, which are fundamentally two outcome sports (ie you either win or lose) in order to give Sky Sports a convenient but essentially meaningless stat to differentiate between managers. Football has three outcomes and you earn points for two of them, so I prefer points per game, although that doesn't take into account the comparative strength of the opposition, if it's a league or cup game etc. Johnson has averaged 1.29 points per game since he took over last February, but that's fallen to 1.038 this season. Anything less than about 1.10 and you're serious candidates for relegation. In comparison, anything better than 1.7 and you're playoff material. In comparison, McInnes averaged 1.031 points per game while he was here. S'OD: 1.045. SC: 1.67 - which clearly takes into account when we won League One. From that point of view, it's clear that right now there's not much between McInnes and Johnson whilst S'OD was only slightly better than both of them - which isn't saying much. IMHO it's the board who need to come under far greater pressure about their decisions. I was prepared to give Johnson the benefit of the doubt when he was appointed but there are couple of points to be made here. Appointing former players as managers is a terrible idea (Millen, Tinnion and now Johnson) and appointing *anyone* without any experience of managing in the Championship is a recipe for disaster, but if the board want to make the same mistakes over and over again then, that's up to them. This is going to be the eighth season in a row where we're going to finish outside the top half of the Championship. I was hoping for mid-table this season, but that's not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniro Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 26 minutes ago, Mighty Squirrel Kingdom said: MHO it's the board who need to come under far greater pressure about their decisions. I was prepared to give Johnson the benefit of the doubt when he was appointed but there are couple of points to be made here. Appointing former players as managers is a terrible idea (Millen, Tinnion and now Johnson) and appointing *anyone* without any experience of managing in the Championship is a recipe for disaster, but if the board want to make the same mistakes over and over again then, that's up to them. I think this is the key point for SL and the board to understand. Unless he spends some of his billions getting a proven manager (which surely must be possible - money talks and we have the infrastructure in place) we are destined to be an L1 club. I was prepared to go along with the LJ idea - true Red, Johnson spirit that nearly got us to the Prem etc, etc .... even though there were massive questions about LJ's total lack of experience let alone success at this level. But the proof is in the pudding and the fact that this team cannot last beyond 70 minutes is a MAN-MANAGEMENT issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 14 hours ago, Jerseybean said: http://www.managerstats.co.uk/clubs/bristol-city/ Have a look at the stats. So is John Ward our greatest ever manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin101 Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 20 hours ago, Dolman Block B said: P14 W2 L12 Even McInnes didn't drop to those lows QPR A 1-0 L Cardiff A 2-1 L Forest H 2-1 W Reading A 2-1 L Brighton H 1-0 L B,ham A 1-0 L Ipswich H 2-0 W H,field A 1-0 L Brentford 1-0 L Preston 2-1 L Wolves 3-2 L Ipswich 2-1 L Reading 3-2 L Cardiff 3-2 L Interestingly, I went on a first date the night of the QPR game. Since progressed to a relationship. As much as I like her, the evidence is clear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepers Ball Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 21 hours ago, Spoons said: Just what we needed another LJ thread?? There will be nothing new covered on this thread . Some of us would be happy with a seperate thread. Its a different subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londoner Posted January 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 55 minutes ago, Robin101 said: Interestingly, I went on a first date the night of the QPR game. Since progressed to a relationship. As much as I like her, the evidence is clear... Interesting i had the stomach bug from hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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