Tomlin how to use him?

[We live in hope]

Even the Bristol Post has printed this and is now making headlines the so called fallout between Johnson and Tomlin not that we have not see for ourselves ;-)

Tomlin without a doubt has the best footballers brain we have and with that the vision better than most. Many coaches in this league and others have highlighted his talents. Football is a team game of course but some do more work than others that's just the way it is. A team needs its workhorses who continually graft their trade up and down interrupting the opposition play but a player like Tomlin needs to be available for the creative talent that comes naturally to him, his vison of the game! He knows he has talent far beyond what LJ ever had and here Leith the problem Johnson is always going to succumbed to such thought until he backs up his management credentials with Success. Then and only then will he be able to handle players like Tomlin and the seasoned professional we so desperately need right now.

It was no secret before Tomlin arrived that he was a handful, but great players just like racehorse can be temper mental  I hope Tomlin does not think he has not been appreciated because for me he is worth having on the pitch for the times he is in the game even if for some that is not enough. Build the team around him and believe!

 

 

[Port Said Red]

Sorry but for me if all the stories about LT and his public castigation of Johnson are true, then LJ is showing the strong Management that many feel his incapable of. I agree it's a real shame because I think he would have played in behind the strikers last night, now that we have the kind of midfield back up we need if he is to play there. 

You are right he is the "seasoned professional we need right now" but we need him to behave like one first.

[We live in hope]

2 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Sorry but for me if all the stories about LT and his public castigation of Johnson are true, then LJ is showing the strong Management that many feel his incapable of. I agree it's a real shame because I think he would have played in behind the strikers last night, now that we have the kind of midfield back up we need if he is to play there. 

You are right he is the "seasoned professional we need right now" but we need him to behave like one first.

Dropping someone to the bench is not my idea of strong management. Bringing 20 different personalities to perform together and then to make success together is! That's management! Strong Management.

[Atyeo's Love Child]

Use him to recoup as much of the money as possible!

[KingLear]

The problem at the moment is, he has gone missing far too often in games this season and very rarely puts in a defensive shift.

He has started the majority of the games in our current losing run where we have been scoring goals, but also conceding far too many at the other end.

I don't know if the rumours about a falling out with LJ are true, but maybe at this moment in time LJ feels he needs players on the pitch who he can rely on to track back and put in a shift all over the pitch hence O'Dowda and Paterson starting in 'Tomlin's' position the last 2 games.

I don't think anyone is doubting that he is our most talented and creative midfielder in the squad, but we have needed to be more solid to get ourselves out of this rut.

Of course I could be completely off the mark here but it's another possibility worth considering, it doesn't always have to be a conspiracy theory.

[Murraysrightplum]

Food critic in the new stadium??

(I joke I joke)

[Port Said Red]

5 minutes ago, We live in hope said:

Dropping someone to the bench is not my idea of strong management. Bringing 20 different personalities to perform together and then to make success together is! That's management! Strong Management.

Don't you think Tomlin has to meet that halfway though? What kind of message would it give to those players who apparently waiting patiently in the wings, like Engvall if he give precedence to a player who has made it clear how little he thinks of the Manager. For me Tomlins performances need to be far better for him to considered ahead of the others.

[Strictly Obi]

I guess if we continue to win matches,  most people won't question Tomlin's omission. It's the Jet and Trundle conundrum all over again really!

[Port Said Red]

1 minute ago, john from high littleton said:

I guess if we continue to win matches,  most people won't question Tomlin's omission. It's the Jet and Trundle conundrum all over again really!

Well no it's not, because as far as we know, both those players were never openly critical of the Manager if they didn't play or were substituted.

[Sixtyseconds]

So was this you asking how he should be used or a telling how he should be used?

Personally I think he should get himself a bit fitter then he might have the legs for a less energetic Jan Molby type role.

Should do a few shuttle runs up and down the aisles in Sainsburys to start.

Can Lee get to the end of the aisle a couple of times without stopping to argue with the till assistants, interfering with / slowing down the stacking of shelves, standing by the magazine section and not coming back, and applauding those in the cafe with their baked spuds.

Big questions there.

[We live in hope]

17 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Don't you think Tomlin has to meet that halfway though? What kind of message would it give to those players who apparently waiting patiently in the wings, like Engvall if he give precedence to a player who has made it clear how little he thinks of the Manager. For me Tomlins performances need to be far better for him to considered ahead of the others.

Of course Tomlin needs to meet half way I agree, along with this not have a public ding dong with LJ, again LJ needs to do the same. My point is this Tomlin should not be on the pitch for anything else than his creative ability and its up to the manager to set the team up in way that can accommodate this. Tomlin is not the man to track back that's just plain and simple we don't want him to be deep... Players like Tomlin only need a few seconds in a game to make the impact that we expect from them. If you think running around putting in a so called shift is the only way a football match can be one then fair enough. As I said some do more running than others that's just the way it is...

[Guest]

It is pretty obvious he has had a fallout with LJ, and to have a pop at your manager in the open is pretty bad imo and should never be tolerated. Would most City fans love to see Tomlin at his best week in week out, of course they would. But just because we have been on a bad run it doesn't mean he should automatically be picked, what sort of message does that send out to the squad? Tomlin is one of the best I have seen for us on his day, but I am with the manager on this one, and if we hadn't been doing so bad I expect most would be on the managers side.

Tomlin needs to buck his ideas up and show some respect to the manager and club, and then, and only then LJ should put aside his differences and play his best side possible.

[Talk Of The Town]

The only way I see him playing is in a 5 man midfield. I don't think we're rigid enough otherwise. Just my opinion though

[Port Said Red]

2 minutes ago, We live in hope said:

Of course Tomlin needs to meet half way I agree, along with this not have a public ding dong with LJ, again LJ needs to do the same. My point is this Tomlin should not be on the pitch for anything else than his creative ability and its up to the manager to set the team up in way that can accommodate this. Tomlin is not the man to track back that's just plain and simple we don't want him to be deep... Players like Tomlin only need a few seconds in a game to make the impact that we expect for them. If you think running around putting in a so called shift is the only way a football match can be one then fair enough. as I said some do more running than others that's just the way it is...

As someone who will always rank JET as one of my favourite players I do agree with that highlighted statement, as long as he is making his contribution effectively. As I said in my original reply, I think he is developing a side that can accommodate his "type" of player, but if he feels that Engvall or Patterson or anyone else could play that role without throwing his toys out of the pram every 5 minutes, then I think he is right to use them.

[Pound Lane Red]

Did Tomlin not have a similar fall out at BFC? How many games does it take to prove a point? I hope it's sorted soon. To big a talent to allow to go to waste. 

[ooRya]

Look at the goal we scored last night, a midfielder running through to pick up a ball passed forward by one of the strikers. We have been crying out for a midfielder to make those sort of runs all season in my opinion. Would Tomlin do that, probably not as I don't think he's that type of player.

So yes, it is a conundrum as to how we fit his undoubted talent into the team when playing 2 up top, which is the formation I think we're likely to see for the rest of the season.

[LondonBristolian]

6 minutes ago, Pound Lane Red said:

Did Tomlin not have a similar fall out at BFC? How many games does it take to prove a point? I hope it's sorted soon. To big a talent to allow to go to waste. 

He did.  He made some ill-advised comments on Twitter.

I've got to be honest and say that I've missed what it is that Tomlin has done in terms of speaking publicly about the manager.  If he has done that then, especially given what happened at Bournemouth, he's got a lot of learning to do.  Superb player and I'd love him to be in the team but ultimately anyone undermining the morale and the atmosphere at the team has to be nipped in the bud.  I hope it gets sorted - a happy and in-form Tomlin on board with the team is a massive asset. 

[LondonBristolian]

4 minutes ago, ooRya said:

Look at the goal we scored last night, a midfielder running through to pick up a ball passed forward by one of the strikers. We have been crying out for a midfielder to make those sort of runs all season in my opinion. Would Tomlin do that, probably not as I don't think he's that type of player.

So yes, it is a conundrum as to how we fit his undoubted talent into the team when playing 2 up top, which is the formation I think we're likely to see for the rest of the season.

I missed last night but I was wishing O'Dowda would do that several times on Saturday...

[1960maaan]

Tomlin is a volatile character , we knew that and the club knew that. On the run we're on I'm not surprised people are falling out.

I'm  not sure if dropping Tomlin was to do with discipline, trying to find a solid formula or coincidence of the two. Playing Brownhill has added legs to the centre of MF and a little more 'team ethic' .  I do wonder if Hegeler's ability and willingness to receive the ball could actually help Tomlin. With this bad run players  have started hiding, Tomlin is the one who is always available and willing to take the ball. With Oneil and Hegeler he would have more options and would hopefully release the ball quicker. 

3-5-2 , with Joe and a new WMF on the right , it could  allow Tomlin the play in the No.10 role with a fairly solid MF behind him happy to take the ball. Also Oneil and Hegegler could form a base to turn it into 3-2-3-2  when controlling a game. 

Much of Tomlin's problem comes from frustration, at times he has been light years ahead of the team in thought and deed, he has often held the ball too long but maybe because the options were lacking.

[Corsham Ed]

Playing him would help..

[Port Said Red]

5 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Tomlin is a volatile character , we knew that and the club knew that. On the run we're on I'm not surprised people are falling out.

I'm  not sure if dropping Tomlin was to do with discipline, trying to find a solid formula or coincidence of the two. Playing Brownhill has added legs to the centre of MF and a little more 'team ethic' .  I do wonder if Hegeler's ability and willingness to receive the ball could actually help Tomlin. With this bad run players  have started hiding, Tomlin is the one who is always available and willing to take the ball. With Oneil and Hegeler he would have more options and would hopefully release the ball quicker. 

3-5-2 , with Joe and a new WMF on the right , it could  allow Tomlin the play in the No.10 role with a fairly solid MF behind him happy to take the ball. Also Oneil and Hegegler could form a base to turn it into 3-2-3-2  when controlling a game. 

Much of Tomlin's problem comes from frustration, at times he has been light years ahead of the team in thought and deed, he has often held the ball too long but maybe because the options were lacking.

I agree with a lot of that an "on message" Tomlin would definitely be an asset in that position and playing Hegeler etc in behind him, would hopefully make him play up top more, rather than "doing a Rooney" and picking the ball up off the back three/four. I have to emphasise the "on message" bit though. 

[We live in hope]

7 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Tomlin is the one who is always available and willing to take the ball

Exactly well identified, clearly you have a football brain and have been there when its tough. When it not going well for the team their are those who always look for the ball and try and do something with it and Tomlin is one of those! a born winner and he is frustrated with City's situation that's all! 

[Fat Cigar]

11 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Tomlin is a volatile character , we knew that and the club knew that. On the run we're on I'm not surprised people are falling out.

I'm  not sure if dropping Tomlin was to do with discipline, trying to find a solid formula or coincidence of the two. Playing Brownhill has added legs to the centre of MF and a little more 'team ethic' .  I do wonder if Hegeler's ability and willingness to receive the ball could actually help Tomlin. With this bad run players  have started hiding, Tomlin is the one who is always available and willing to take the ball. With Oneil and Hegeler he would have more options and would hopefully release the ball quicker. 

3-5-2 , with Joe and a new WMF on the right , it could  allow Tomlin the play in the No.10 role with a fairly solid MF behind him happy to take the ball. Also Oneil and Hegegler could form a base to turn it into 3-2-3-2  when controlling a game. 

Much of Tomlin's problem comes from frustration, at times he has been light years ahead of the team in thought and deed, he has often held the ball too long but maybe because the options were lacking.

All spot on.

On the Friday before we'd even signed Tomlin, Johnson spoke about needing to carefully manage him, as you seem to with any maverick. Tomlin is indeed 2 or 3 passes ahead of the rest and comes up with that great killer from one side of the pitch to the other pass. 

I've always suspected that there'd be a falling out at some point. Happened quicker than I'd have guessed, but things boil over when you're losing every game. And Tomlin has made a habit of this at previous clubs.

However, he needs to play. He has to. Johnson's made his point (as is his right) dropped him, but now he needs to bring him back. He is our best player and we all love watching him. If he's having a quiet game, fine, sub him after 60 odd mins, but he makes things happen.

[We live in hope]

13 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

3-5-2 , with Joe and a new WMF on the right , it could  allow Tomlin the play in the No.10 role with a fairly solid MF behind him happy to take the ball. Also Oneil and Hegegler could form a base to turn it into 3-2-3-2  when controlling a game. 

Much of Tomlin's problem comes from frustration, at times he has been light years ahead of the team in thought and deed, he has often held the ball too long but maybe because the options were lacking

Clearly well thought out. Good post thank you.

[Major Isewater]

35 minutes ago, We live in hope said:

Of course Tomlin needs to meet half way I agree, along with this not have a public ding dong with LJ, again LJ needs to do the same. My point is this Tomlin should not be on the pitch for anything else than his creative ability and its up to the manager to set the team up in way that can accommodate this. Tomlin is not the man to track back that's just plain and simple we don't want him to be deep... Players like Tomlin only need a few seconds in a game to make the impact that we expect from them. If you think running around putting in a so called shift is the only way a football match can be one then fair enough. As I said some do more running than others that's just the way it is...

Particularly when it was said that Jens Hegeler ' walks ' around but controls the midfield .

The athleticism of British football dominates the coaches ideas . Our style is all blood and thunder and the clever players who don't need to run 10 kilometers per match to affect the game are most often shunted to one side and worse , treated contemptuously as figures of fun . 

Pitman was reduced to à supporting role because of this and we lost one of the most natural goalscorers to grace our club since Shaun Goater to leave for peanuts.

 The list is long , players like Le Tissier criminally overlooked .

 

[Port Said Red]

1 minute ago, Major Isewater said:

Particularly when it was said that Jens Hegeler ' walks ' around but controls the midfield .

The athleticism of British football dominates the coaches ideas . Our style is all blood and thunder and the clever players who don't need to run 10 kilometers per match to affect the game are most often shunted to one side and worse , treated contemptuously as figures of fun . 

Pitman was reduced to à supporting role because of this and we lost one of the most natural goalscorers to grace our club since Shaun Goater to leave for peanuts.

 The list is long , players like Le Tissier criminally overlooked .

 

Sorry Major, whilst agree with your point about players of his ilk, this is not the problem here, LJ is not, not playing him because he doesn't track back or run around enough, he is not playing because his attitude towards the Management team has appeared to be very undermining. 

[We live in hope]

1 minute ago, Major Isewater said:

The athleticism of British football dominates the coaches ideas . Our style is all blood and thunder and the clever players who don't need to run 10 kilometers per match to affect the game are most often shunted to one side and worse , treated contemptuously as figures of fun . 

Quite right and well recognised.

[We live in hope]

16 minutes ago, Fat Cigar said:

Johnson spoke about needing to carefully manage him, as you seem to with any maverick. Tomlin is indeed 2 or 3 passes ahead of the rest and comes up with that great killer from one side of the pitch to the other pass. 

I do not remember that interview but thank you for sharing this. Do you think Johnson could do better with his handling of Tomlin? If so how?

[Fat Cigar]

14 minutes ago, We live in hope said:

I do not remember that interview but thank you for sharing this. Do you think Johnson could do better with his handling of Tomlin? If so how?

The interview actually gave the game away. We were all going slightly bonkers on here waiting and waiting for him to sign. And then Johnson pretty much admitted in his comments that the deal was done. Don't think many people picked up on this. 

Even the best managers struggle with mavericks. Johnson's done ok so far with him. And let's be honest, Tomlin wouldn't have been dropped if he had been playing well. And you can get away with a lot of things when the team's winning.

No idea what happened at Wolves, but (and let's assume the reports of a very heated bust up in front of others is correct) no manager can allow a player (no matter how good) to speak to them like that. You have to assert your authority.

I imagine Tomlin's a right pain to manage and (I'm guessing) not the most popular guy in the dressing room. Just a hunch. 

One thing I did notice on Saturday, when Tomlin was warming up, he was directing one of our players (can't recall who) to pass to so and so. Did that more than once. Thought that was quite funny. And telling. Tomlin was never going to be the shy retiring type. 

[Major Isewater]

22 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Sorry Major, whilst agree with your point about players of his ilk, this is not the problem here, LJ is not, not playing him because he doesn't track back or run around enough, he is not playing because his attitude towards the Management team has appeared to be very undermining. 

You know this for a fact do you ?