Six nations

[Lrrr]

I think bonus points will make the gaps between teams bigger if anything, one of the good things about the 6 nations is how close it can be going into the last weekend. We will have to wait and see but if we do end up with free flowing attacking teams then we could have the title decided before the last weekend more regularly than before.

[MichaelRobartes]

1 hour ago, hodge said:

I think bonus points will make the gaps between teams bigger if anything, one of the good things about the 6 nations is how close it can be going into the last weekend. We will have to wait and see but if we do end up with free flowing attacking teams then we could have the title decided before the last weekend more regularly than before.

I can see why some aren't sure but my hope is that it'll bring up the standard. Improve or get left behind. 

[Lrrr]

14 minutes ago, MichaelRobartes said:

I can see why some aren't sure but my hope is that it'll bring up the standard. Improve or get left behind. 

There is quality in the northern hemisphere, it was there for England before Jones took over. For us Jones has just got us playing effectively, that's the change. Then the fact England only just got past Wales and France shows the other northern hemisphere teams aren't too far behind. I think Wales need to move on from Gatland and Howley, I think the length of their tenure in charge has seen them plateau in their performances when there is quality in their squad. 

[MichaelRobartes]

52 minutes ago, hodge said:

There is quality in the northern hemisphere, it was there for England before Jones took over. For us Jones has just got us playing effectively, that's the change. Then the fact England only just got past Wales and France shows the other northern hemisphere teams aren't too far behind. I think Wales need to move on from Gatland and Howley, I think the length of their tenure in charge has seen them plateau in their performances when there is quality in their squad. 

I'm not saying we're all shite, I think the SH-NH gap has been bridged a bit in this new World Cup cycle but we need to keep it going. I could be totally wrong but I think bonus points will be a good thing.

Totally agree about Gatland/Howley but Wales probably should have won that game yesterday. Davies misses touch with a clearance and England score off that. If that goes in the stand near the 10m line England have a much harder time scoring. They have gotten very good at winning.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

13 hours ago, MichaelRobartes said:

Was a clear try imo. Didn't matter in the end though. All the matches have been brilliant so far except our game against Italy who were absolute muck.

I would like to disagree. I'm not sure what the laws of the game say about it but if they laws say that should have been given the I feel that they are wrong. He was not in control of the ball anymore so for me it should not have been given. 

Italy are going to come under serious pressure from Georgia if they fali to pick up a single point

[MichaelRobartes]

14 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I would like to disagree. I'm not sure what the laws of the game say about it but if they laws say that should have been given the I feel that they are wrong. He was not in control of the ball anymore so for me it should not have been given. 

Italy are going to come under serious pressure from Georgia if they fali to pick up a single point

It looked (to me at least) that there was downward pressure from his pinky and so the try should have been awarded. I don't necessarily disagree with you (I haven't made up my mind on the 'control' debate) but rules is rules. Luckily it didn't matter because the TMO would have been in for it had Scotland won by 7 or less!

They'll need a big performance somewhere for sure. I thought the Wales game was a big opportunity for them, 55 minute performances don't cut it at this level.

[Lrrr]

On 13/02/2017 at 10:48, MichaelRobartes said:

It looked (to me at least) that there was downward pressure from his pinky and so the try should have been awarded. I don't necessarily disagree with you (I haven't made up my mind on the 'control' debate) but rules is rules. Luckily it didn't matter because the TMO would have been in for it had Scotland won by 7 or less!

They'll need a big performance somewhere for sure. I thought the Wales game was a big opportunity for them, 55 minute performances don't cut it at this level.

That's my understanding of it too, the ball didn't completely lose contact with his hand on the way down and there was downward pressure from some point of his hand so should have been awarded.

 

On 13/02/2017 at 10:12, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Italy are going to come under serious pressure from Georgia if they fali to pick up a single point

Doubt it, any team in the 6 nations would likely destroy Georgia, including Italy. If any other team were added to the 6 nations they would just become the new whipping boys for everyone, at least Italy put up a fight here and there.

[PHILINFRANCE]

2 hours ago, hodge said:

Doubt it, any team in the 6 nations would likely destroy Georgia, including Italy. If any other team were added to the 6 nations they would just become the new whipping boys for everyone, at least Italy put up a fight here and there.

I'm not so sure. I read a detailed article recently explaining just how strong Georgia have become during the last few years - it mentioned their Worcester player whose name I forget. There would seem to be some protectionism of the current six nations, especially Italy, to the extent the rugby powers that be are reluctant to even support a friendly end of season play-off between Georgia and the team finishing bottom of the six nations championship.

Incidentally, is anybody able to explain the 16H50 kick-off times? 

[MichaelRobartes]

1 hour ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Incidentally, is anybody able to explain the 16H50 kick-off times? 

I couldn't find much from my quick google, but I found at least one Saturday matches from last year which kicked off at the same time. I can't say I remember such weird KO times before though.

Some talk on the BBC radio podcast that Italy should consider condensing their two PRO12 team into one to allow the players more gametime together and streamline their resources as the Argentinian Union have done with the Jaguares in Super Rugby. I don't think it's such a horrible idea at all. They have a good man at the top in COS and I'd back him to leave them in a stronger place than he found them. It wasn't so long ago that they beat the Springboks after all. Fair enough the Boks are muck at the moment, but I think it was their first win over a SH superpower so it's pretty significant.

[Lrrr]

Think that's a fairly good idea tbh, how many of the Italians play abroad would be the only concern.

[MichaelRobartes]

13 hours ago, hodge said:

Think that's a fairly good idea tbh, how many of the Italians play abroad would be the only concern.

They might find it easier to entice players back if they're operating one team as they'd be able to pay higher wages. Argentina have had great success at that in getting most of their stars to come home. Even if they can't get everyone they'd like back, it just frees up wages for someone else. 

Treviso and Zebre getting smashed by Munster, Glasgow, Ospreys, Leinster etc. every week doesn't seem to have helped them at all. I'd love to see Italy being competitive. I remember being in Edinburgh in 2011 for the final round of matches, Italy had beaten France the week before and I had a great laugh with a group of Italian lads who were off to Murrayfield that afternoon. They all had rubber chickens that they'd written 'WE BEAT FRANCE' on tied round their necks with string. Great days.

[22A]

So far this season the England U20s and the England Women's team have both been doing as well as the full team. Odd selection of venues for the U20s though. France were played at Exeter and last night Italy had to travel all the way to Darlington. The game v Scotland will be played at Northampton. Is it a clever ruse to make the visitors have a protracted journey with several changes of plane & train?

[Lrrr]

The no competing at the ruck so no offside rule seems like a complete farce, yes its very clever use of the rules by Italy, but its just killing the game as a spectacle by not allowing the 9 to pass the ball away.

[Northern Red]

Pisspoor from England. 

[Lrrr]

Just managed to get 14/1 for Italy to win, stuck the £5 in my account on it.

[Kid in the Riot]

3 minutes ago, hodge said:

Just managed to get 14/1 for Italy to win, stuck the £5 in my account on it.

Well done!

[Lrrr]

At least one English player is switched on, good play by Care.

[Lrrr]

Just now, Kid in the Riot said:

Well done!

Good to see my track record of losing bets kicked into action quickly 

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, hodge said:

Good to see my track record of losing bets kicked into action quickly 

To great effect  

[Red-Robbo]

Eddie Jones's "finishers" tactic pays off again!

How far off the record are England now?

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

Eddie Jones's "finishers" tactic pays off again!

How far off the record are England now?

Win the next two and its the record, so Ireland could be grand slam and record consecutive wins  

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, hodge said:

Win the next two and its the record, so Ireland could be grand slam and record consecutive wins  

[cityexile]

Well, Italy set a puzzle that England spent a half figuring out.

Not sure what to make of it in truth. Can be no blame on Italy on using the rules as they are, but going to be a mess if suddenly everyone starts trying it when in defence. Just pick up and go quickly seems the obvious response but still.

Will not be surprised to see a rule change at some stage.

[MichaelRobartes]

I'm afraid that it was utterly brainless stuff from England. There was so much space left around the tackle area that England had to blast it up the middle or set up a maul. If they'd done that early on then Italy would have been forced to change tactics. I'm sure COS intended to use that a bit to disrupt England but I'm sure he didn't expect them to need a word with the coaches at half time to figure it out. If Tommy Allen could kick snow off a rope that would have been a really close game.

Highlight of the game was Poite telling Hartley and The Brand that he's a ref, not a coach. I'm sure that Jones doesn't believe what he said in his interview, but it has taken the heat off his players' inability to adapt somewhat.

[Lrrr]

Has AWJ potential Lions captaincy taken a hit by Bigger ignoring his decision for 3 points, or just damaged Bigger? Personally feel Conor Murray wouldn't be a bad choice for lions captain, pretty certain he is nailed on to start at 9 and has been there and done it with the lions before.

[Midred]

1 hour ago, MichaelRobartes said:

I'm afraid that it was utterly brainless stuff from England. There was so much space left around the tackle area that England had to blast it up the middle or set up a maul. If they'd done that early on then Italy would have been forced to change tactics. I'm sure COS intended to use that a bit to disrupt England but I'm sure he didn't expect them to need a word with the coaches at half time to figure it out. If Tommy Allen could kick snow off a rope that would have been a really close game.

Highlight of the game was Poite telling Hartley and The Brand that he's a ref, not a coach. I'm sure that Jones doesn't believe what he said in his interview, but it has taken the heat off his players' inability to adapt somewhat.

Would COS have considered using this tactic against Ireland?

[MichaelRobartes]

9 minutes ago, Midred said:

Would COS have considered using this tactic against Ireland?

Australia did it against us in the Autumn. If he'd seen that then he would presumably have seen that it was dealt with and not repeated by Australia. He might have thought that it'd put England out a bit but I can't imagine he'd have anticipated it disrupting their game to that extent. 

COS wants to win whoever his team are togging out against. He'd have loved to put one over on us, no doubt about it.

[MichaelRobartes]

33 minutes ago, hodge said:

Has AWJ potential Lions captaincy taken a hit by Bigger ignoring his decision for 3 points, or just damaged Bigger? Personally feel Conor Murray wouldn't be a bad choice for lions captain, pretty certain he is nailed on to start at 9 and has been there and done it with the lions before.

I don't think so. I felt that going to the corner was the correct call at that stage but it's poor enough for a guy to ignore his captain. If the plane left tomorrow AWJ would be my choice as.

As far as I know Murray has never captained Munster but he is a real leader in red and green. He is a definite starter as you say and I think he would make a good captain. 

[Welcome To The Jungle]

56 minutes ago, MichaelRobartes said:

I don't think so. I felt that going to the corner was the correct call at that stage but it's poor enough for a guy to ignore his captain. If the plane left tomorrow AWJ would be my choice as.

As far as I know Murray has never captained Munster but he is a real leader in red and green. He is a definite starter as you say and I think he would make a good captain. 

Problem is I don't think he is in the top 5 second rows to choose from. 

[MichaelRobartes]

1 hour ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Problem is I don't think he is in the top 5 second rows to choose from. 

Have seen a few people with the same opinion, but I disagree. It's all about opinions and there is a lot of competition, especially in the second and back rows. I can't see AWJ not touring with Fatland in charge either.

The captaincy might be a problem. Of the four British and Irish captains I'd say AWJ has gone the best so far. Rory is a warrior for Ireland and he's made a good captain, but I just think he has something lacking. I don't find Hartley impressive as a captain at all and would actually pick Jamie George ahead of him. I don't think Laidlaw is one of the four best scrum halves in the Isles either. so unless they choose someone left field like Warburton (hardly radical but he's no longer Welsh captain and isn't guaranteed a starting place at all) or Murray the options seem a bit limited.