Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

bpexile

Have we under estimated LJ ?

Recommended Posts

On 19 September 2017 at 09:50, southvillekiddy said:

I think we have to appraise the coaching team and not just LJ. For me Jamie Mac has to be the one who has made the difference. MA and LJ chose him (and booted out Pembo, this upset me, especially listening to MA's bullshit afterwards) so they have to be congratulated on that but Jamie Mac has been the inspirational figure with the important Scots gravitas. This has to have impressed a young group of players. Holden remains a shadowy presence still not sure what he brings. But LJ cannot alone be credited for the temporary success.

This is very speculative. You don't have a clue what goes on behind closed doors. We see a very small snippet every Saturday for 90mins. 

From what I've heard, Holden plays a very proactive role on the training ground, as do LJ and JMac. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ForeverRes said:

This is very speculative. You don't have a clue what goes on behind closed doors. We see a very small snippet every Saturday for 90mins. 

From what I've heard, Holden plays a very proactive role on the training ground, as do LJ and JMac. 

Okay. Speculative of course but is it very speculative? We see quite a lot of LJ and increasing Jamie Mac throughout the week on the Official site. Holden is beginning to feature more with the run of good results. Of course Holden has a role on the training ground with LJ and Jamie Mac (I didn't say he did nothing, rather that I was unsure of his level of influence within the Management/coaching team) What else would they be doing throughout the week? Their appearances on the Official site give us a view of them on which we can base an opinion.

Of course you will have noticed that I made my post, which included my reference to Holden, on the morning before the latest great result against Stoke. Holden was given what might be his most significant interview so far on the Official site on the evening after that game

Out of interest what do think of Jamie Mac? Do you have an opinion on his effect on the squad since he became assistant manager?

 

Edited by southvillekiddy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

Okay. Speculative of course but is it very speculative? We see quite a lot of LJ and increasing Jamie Mac throughout the week on the Official site. Holden is beginning to feature more with the run of good results. Of course Holden has a role on the training ground with LJ and Jamie Mac (I didn't say he did nothing, rather that I was unsure of his level of influence within the Management/coaching team) What else would they be doing throughout the week? Their appearances on the Official site give us a view of them on which we can base an opinion.

Of course you will have noticed that I made my post, which included my reference to Holden, on the morning before the latest great result against Stoke. Holden was given what might be his most significant interview so far on the Official site on the evening after that game

Out of interest what do think of Jamie Mac? Do you have an opinion on his effect on the squad since he became assistant manager?

 

It had nothing to do with the previous result. 

I was just referring to the fact you're speculating on things on the basis of nothing. You no idea the roles LJ, JMac, Holden play behind closed doors. None of us do. 

I think collectively they are doing something right, based on results. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/09/2017 at 09:50, southvillekiddy said:

I think we have to appraise the coaching team and not just LJ. For me Jamie Mac has to be the one who has made the difference. MA and LJ chose him (and booted out Pembo, this upset me, especially listening to MA's bullshit afterwards) so they have to be congratulated on that but Jamie Mac has been the inspirational figure with the important Scots gravitas. This has to have impressed a young group of players. Holden remains a shadowy presence still not sure what he brings. But LJ cannot alone be credited for the temporary success.

This seems to be the latest way to slightly detract success from LJ. It’s just as wild and unsubstantiated a guess as last season’s ones about Holden being some sort of curse or Jonah. We only get a tiny snippet of what actually happens at the club so people don’t really know who does what and what impact it has.

The coaching team are only as good as the manager; after all the buck stops with LJ to make these appointments. They’re clearly a good team though which is good to see.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The buck stops with LJ...but the success at any Club, depends on the infrastructure and other coach's brought in, and their willingness to go with it, understand what's needed, and the most important....TIME GIVEN TO IMPLIMENT IT ALL.

LJ came in with a plan and a style of play he wanted to implement for the long term.

That wasn't going to be successful in this league in it's first season.

You need time to bring in the right players and time to coach those ideas...for them to be understood and ingrained.

We never got absolutely hammered last season, or out played every game.

More often than not, individual errors cost us.

It's those individual errors being less and understanding of what's needed that's made a difference this season.

It's also no coincidence that our foreign imports and done rather better than in previous seasons.

They have had a knowledge and understanding of the type of coaching being given now, from an early age. They fit in straight away...and are able to pass that knowledge on to our British players, who haven't had the 'higher level of technical coaching and understanding that they have had'.

It's a big pot, of many pieces coming together and working as one.

Yes...the buck stops with LJ...but it isn't just his ideas. He impliment's many, but he has the foresight to bring in the personnel able to work with them.

It's a package....all successful managers make sure they are surrounded by the right people for them.

Look at Alex Ferguson and his selected backroom staff as an example.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, spudski said:

The buck stops with LJ...but the success at any Club, depends on the infrastructure and other coach's brought in, and their willingness to go with it, understand what's needed, and the most important....TIME GIVEN TO IMPLIMENT IT ALL.

LJ came in with a plan and a style of play he wanted to implement for the long term.

That wasn't going to be successful in this league in it's first season.

You need time to bring in the right players and time to coach those ideas...for them to be understood and ingrained.

We never got absolutely hammered last season, or out played every game.

More often than not, individual errors cost us.

It's those individual errors being less and understanding of what's needed that's made a difference this season.

It's also no coincidence that our foreign imports and done rather better than in previous seasons.

They have had a knowledge and understanding of the type of coaching being given now, from an early age. They fit in straight away...and are able to pass that knowledge on to our British players, who haven't had the 'higher level of technical coaching and understanding that they have had'.

It's a big pot, of many pieces coming together and working as one.

Yes...the buck stops with LJ...but it isn't just his ideas. He impliment's many, but he has the foresight to bring in the personnel able to work with them.

It's a package....all successful managers make sure they are surrounded by the right people for them.

Look at Alex Ferguson and his selected backroom staff as an example.

 

Para...para...paragraphs!

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

Not for me, so 100 lines I must include paragraphs..

 

You like lines :P

You should try filling in alternate squares on millemetre squared graph paper. (Mind you I could always get my mates to help!)

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

This seems to be the latest way to slightly detract success from LJ. It’s just as wild and unsubstantiated a guess as last season’s ones about Holden being some sort of curse or Jonah. We only get a tiny snippet of what actually happens at the club so people don’t really know who does what and what impact it has.

The coaching team are only as good as the manager; after all the buck stops with LJ to make these appointments. They’re clearly a good team though which is good to see.

If it is the latest way then you've invented it. There was nothing wild about my post. I'm suggesting that Jamie Mac has been a significant factor in the change of form. In doing so I'm admitting that I was wrong about Pembo.

How would you explain our recent successes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ForeverRes said:

It had nothing to do with the previous result. 

I was just referring to the fact you're speculating on things on the basis of nothing. You no idea the roles LJ, JMac, Holden play behind closed doors. None of us do. 

I think collectively they are doing something right, based on results. 

Be nice if people took the trouble to read what has been written after serious thought.

Edited by southvillekiddy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

If it is the latest way then you've invented it. There was nothing wild about my post. I'm suggesting that Jamie Mac has been a significant factor in the change of form. In doing so I'm admitting that I was wrong about Pembo.

Well he might have been, he might not have been. Exactly the same as saying Holden was a big factor in our poor form. It’s a guess because we don’t know the impact of individual coaches. Managers and players get the glory for this reason.

Quote

How would you explain our recent successes?

Many different factors - good recruitment, good system that fits our players, better tactics, seemingly happier players - yes the coaching staff must feature in that too; but it’s not something we can measure really because we don’t actually know their individual impact.

Edited by Phileas Fogg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/18/2017 at 12:20, Tammys Scan said:

I'll have more faith when he turns us around after going on a losing run..

You mean like he has done twice already for us?

One time mainly of his own making admittedly but another of someone else's.

Edited by Alessandro
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, spudski said:

The buck stops with LJ...but the success at any Club, depends on the infrastructure and other coach's brought in, and their willingness to go with it, understand what's needed, and the most important....TIME GIVEN TO IMPLIMENT IT ALL.

LJ came in with a plan and a style of play he wanted to implement for the long term.

That wasn't going to be successful in this league in it's first season.

You need time to bring in the right players and time to coach those ideas...for them to be understood and ingrained.

We never got absolutely hammered last season, or out played every game.

More often than not, individual errors cost us.

It's those individual errors being less and understanding of what's needed that's made a difference this season.

It's also no coincidence that our foreign imports and done rather better than in previous seasons.

They have had a knowledge and understanding of the type of coaching being given now, from an early age. They fit in straight away...and are able to pass that knowledge on to our British players, who haven't had the 'higher level of technical coaching and understanding that they have had'.

It's a big pot, of many pieces coming together and working as one.

Yes...the buck stops with LJ...but it isn't just his ideas. He impliment's many, but he has the foresight to bring in the personnel able to work with them.

It's a package....all successful managers make sure they are surrounded by the right people for them.

Look at Alex Ferguson and his selected backroom staff as an example.

 

So you have managed to blank Preston away from your memory then? Can you let me know exactly how you have achieved this as it still gives me nightmares.

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is fairly clear to me that personnel changes in the squad and coaching staff, have helped to improve the togetherness of the club.

I make this comment/assumption from my own view of how the team and it's members appear to be much more willing within games to help their colleagues in all kinds of situations. There are lung busting runs to support strikers, hunting in a pack to get the ball back and also to help colleagues when an error by one or more is made that brings danger to our own goal.

I have also been given snippets of information from people that I trust who, although not deeply ITK, have more close contact with the club than I could ever have. Most of this info arrived after we came out of the horrendous run last autumn and winter. Thus my opinions about LJ especially and the coaching staff, during that period have now been tempered to such an extent that I believe that they are doing the best they can for BCFC. Whether that is just good enough to keep us up or to take us upward to new levels, remains to be seen. But the evidence so far this season, is encouraging. It's not that we are gleaning points and cup wins better than last season's start, but the manner in which we are doing so. 

I recently forecast after four points gained against Villa and Reading, that we'd get nine after Wolves, Derby and Norwich. Only one point is needed tomorrow, but I have a sneaky feeling that we'll have eleven points from these games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, cider-manc said:

So you have managed to blank Preston away from your memory then? Can you let me know exactly how you have achieved this as it still gives me nightmares.

Every team in the English League system can come a real cropper now and then. Our worst result in the last two or three seasons in terms of goals conceded is PNE.

But look at the converse from us. In the last two seasons we have twice hammered Huddersfield at home. Yet look where they are. And this season Liverpool thump Arsenal 4-0 and are walloped by Man City. As a long suffering Red how about Boxing Day 1955 at Plymouth when we lost 0-5 but won at home the next day 6-0.

However well we play, there is always a big defeat coming our way sometime. So PNE 2017 is now old history even if it gave all of the club a big kick up the backside and by doing so, helped us to make some good progress since.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

You mean like he has done twice already for us?

One time mainly of his own making admittedly but another of someone else's.

Okay, if we should expect an 8 game losing run then my reply to the original post is a no, I haven't underestimated him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Tammys Scan said:

Okay, if we should expect an 8 game losing run then my reply to the original post is a no, I haven't underestimated him.

I'd say judging a manager who has 80 games for us over an 8 game losing run is pretty short sighted. 

Edited by Alessandro
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Alessandro said:

You mean like he has done twice already for us?

One time mainly of his own making admittedly but another of someone else's.

I'm impresssed by the signs this season but

What was the second occasion ? (somebody else's making) ?

If you're referring to when he took over - JP had got us some results and turned the ship

Edited by BobBobSuperBob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I'm impresssed by the signs this season but

What was the second occasion ? (somebody else's making) ?

If you're referring to when we took over JP had got us some results and turned the ship

It was so funny when LJ claimed the win against Chalton when he was sat in the standa when JP was in charge! As you say JP strated the turn around not LJ.

This season is just like last season's start. Some good and lucky wins in the league and the start of a cup run. Can't knock it so far. Norwich a other good test of the encouraging start.

  • Snake 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my view - potentially massively.

He asked for 3 windows, fairly luckily got them and in that time he has bumped out troublesome players (and coaches) !!

We now have 2 players in every position and players that seem to get their role, formations etc and a team spirit not seen for a while.

Not getting carried away but I believe we will continue this form and will bounce back much quicker from set backs and defeats.

Top 6 finish this season !!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Thatch35 said:

It was so funny when LJ claimed the win against Chalton when he was sat in the standa when JP was in charge!

Did he? Genuine question because I don’t remember that.

5 minutes ago, Thatch35 said:

As you say JP strated the turn around not LJ.

This season is just like last season's start. Some good and lucky wins in the league and the start of a cup run. Can't knock it so far. Norwich a other good test of the encouraging start.

It’s better than last season’s start. We’re far more convincing and there were signs that we’d falter eventually this time last year. We totally relied on Abraham, this year we’ve got goals all over the team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A good way of measuring is the Expected Goals.

Don't know if Experimental 3-6-1 had them last season but...that's usually a decent marker of performance. Would say we are about par at the minute, maybe our GD is one or two too high but basically performances are reasonably matching points thusfar...

Don't want to look overly far ahead, I'll just enjoy it for now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I'm impresssed by the signs this season but

What was the second occasion ? (somebody else's making) ?

If you're referring to when he took over - JP had got us some results and turned the ship

Yes I was referring to him turning things around after Steve, as well as last season.

Of course some credit has to be given to JP, but major credit also goes to LJ for keeping us in the division, when under SC it looked like we were all but doomed. 

To clarify though, i'm not saying LJ's been underestimated, just thought it was interesting that someone posts something along the lines of 'i'll judge after he turns a losing run around' when he has had a hand in doing it twice already at the club.

Edited by Alessandro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/19/2017 at 20:05, Rob k said:

The bigger picture is we have only lost something like twice in 18 games

And we don't play Birmingham again for a while :facepalm:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When he was absolutely diabolical last season those calling for his head (myself included) were told to "wait and see". This season the start has been promising in the main but very early doors, so I will heed ;last seasons advice to "wait and see".

I do not want to see him fail incidentally, because by implication that means the club I love is in the shite again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

I'd say judging a manager who has 80 games for us over an 8 game losing run is pretty short sighted. 

What about 31 wins, 16 draws & 26 losses? Whilst spending huge?

Edited by Tammys Scan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Tammys Scan said:

What about 31 wins, 16 draws & 26 losses? Whilst spending huge?

Well his win ratio here is 40% which is very respectable. As for spending huge, we have had huge fees for Kodjia and income from the Bolasie deal amongst others. I doubt our net spend is that high.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Tammys Scan said:

What about 31 wins, 16 draws & 26 losses? Whilst spending huge?

A decent enough overall record.

The average from that over a 46 game season is 68.68 points.

69 points in a season would be around 9th.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Well his win ratio here is 40% which is very respectable. As for spending huge, we have had huge fees for Kodjia and income from the Bolasie deal amongst others. I doubt our net spend is that high.

 

8 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

A decent enough overall record.

The average from that over a 46 game season is 68.68 points.

69 points in a season would be around 9th.

Not saying he's done badly just not under estimated with all things considered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Well his win ratio here is 40% which is very respectable. As for spending huge, we have had huge fees for Kodjia and income from the Bolasie deal amongst others. I doubt our net spend is that high.

I did the numbers on our spend a few days ago.

Depending on exactly what we got in the sell ons and what we got for Agard (Transfermarkt didnt give a value) we are somewhere between £1.6m spent and about 500k profit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Can’t wait for the inevitable ‘Have we over estimated LJ?’ thread after we go on a poor run 

If we don't beat Bolton on Tuesday I reckon.

I'm all for optimism, enjoying the moment and hoping for the best for the future but it is amazing how much opinion has changed since the Brentford and Millwall games which were just 4 league games ago.

I think I must be in the minority who thought things weren't quite as bad as all that last season/start of this and will wait a little longer before dreaming of promotion!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Keep the Faith said:

If we don't beat Bolton on Tuesday I reckon.

I'm all for optimism, enjoying the moment and hoping for the best for the future but it is amazing how much opinion has changed since the Brentford and Millwall games which were just 4 league games ago.

I think I must be in the minority who thought things weren't quite as bad as all that last season/start of this and will wait a little longer before dreaming of promotion!

While many are feeling much more optimistic about things at the moment, I doubt there are many who feel we are promotion candidates or even dream of promotion.

There are a lot more positive signs than this time last season, but we have a young and relatively inexperienced squad and doubtless we will come up against tough opposition over the rest of the season and the resolute performances against Brentford and Wolves won't always happen when we are put under that sort of pressure. 

The squad looks stronger throughout ( who would have thought that Flint might not be our first choice at the heart of defence!) and we at last seem to have our way of playing, and it is working, What we might just lack is that bit of experience - a Paul Hartley in midfield would be ideal just now - so I am hopeful of a top half finish and if we maintain early season form we might just be close to the play offs. 

However, we all know just how tough this division is and can be, and there are some tough teams with very strong squads, that I would expect to have the quality over the whole season that we probably lack at the moment.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/09/2017 at 20:50, TheCulturalBomb said:

We're 9th in the league and had a solid start. Getting a bit carried away with ourselves, just remember how bad things were last season.

 

1 hour ago, Super said:

I think many need to calm down a bit. We are 8 games into a season.

Who exactly is getting carried away?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

I did the numbers on our spend a few days ago.

Depending on exactly what we got in the sell ons and what we got for Agard (Transfermarkt didnt give a value) we are somewhere between £1.6m spent and about 500k profit.

Nice one, what was your calculated spend since lj started? Must be around 15 to 18 million I guess?

Edited by simon uk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Thatch35 said:

It was so funny when LJ claimed the win against Chalton when he was sat in the standa when JP was in charge! As you say JP strated the turn around not LJ.

This season is just like last season's start. Some good and lucky wins in the league and the start of a cup run. Can't knock it so far. Norwich a other good test of the encouraging start.

When did he claim the Charlton win? Stop making things up. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, downendcity said:

While many are feeling much more optimistic about things at the moment, I doubt there are many who feel we are promotion candidates or even dream of promotion.

There are a lot more positive signs than this time last season, but we have a young and relatively inexperienced squad and doubtless we will come up against tough opposition over the rest of the season and the resolute performances against Brentford and Wolves won't always happen when we are put under that sort of pressure. 

The squad looks stronger throughout ( who would have thought that Flint might not be our first choice at the heart of defence!) and we at last seem to have our way of playing, and it is working, What we might just lack is that bit of experience - a Paul Hartley in midfield would be ideal just now - so I am hopeful of a top half finish and if we maintain early season form we might just be close to the play offs. 

However, we all know just how tough this division is and can be, and there are some tough teams with very strong squads, that I would expect to have the quality over the whole season that we probably lack at the moment.

Agree massively with this. We've made good progress, and have a young abs hungry squad.

But I don't think we're ready for a promotion challenge just yet. A season to early for me 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, simon uk said:

Nice one, what was your calculated spend since lj started? Must be around 15 to 18 million I guess?

Its a bit more than that, though hard to be fully certain as the website had the nunbers in Euros.

Came out at £21.9m once converted, though numbers for Wright and Paterson were missing.

I think Wright was about 400k and Paterson wasn't much more so added £1m on top, so about £23m spent.

 

It does sound a lot, but less than £8m per window, about average in this league I think.

Edited by JamesBCFC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

When did he claim the Charlton win? Stop making things up. 

 

I believe it was a tongue in cheek comment that no sane individual would take seriously. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Its a bit more than that, though hard to be fully certain as the website had the nunbers in Euros.

Came out at £21.9m once converted, though numbers for Wright and Paterson were missing.

I think Wright was about 400k and Paterson wasn't much more so added £1m on top, so about £23m spent.

 

It does sound a lot, but less than £8m per window, about average in this league I think.

We played  a Wolves team with a £15m purchase playing  ( another £10m player as well??) and that is what we are up against.

As many have said LJ's net spend is very low, but we have to spend if we are to compete, but at long last we seem to be spending wisely and the players bought in also seem to fit our playing system so less square pegs in round holes. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do think that, if things carry on, it shows the value of togetherness and everyone buying into what you are doing.

Most of us criticised the sacking of JP last season but, much as I like  the guy for what he did for us, results have improved. And i do wonder - to be clear, i have no knowledge of this was true or not - if the issue was having people in the management team, as well as the playing staff, who did not agree with the direction the club was going in and - perhaps unintentionally - undermined what the manger was trying to do.

The reality is, whoever is right or wrong, LJ is the manager and has the right to put across his vision and ideas. If other people disagree and cannot buy into his vision, it is in everyone's interests to move them on.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×