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Major Isewater

Ashton confirms that we are not chasing promotion

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On 2/14/2018 at 03:57, havanatopia said:

I think that is not the reason. Whether the quality has reduced is open to debate. The reason behind their closures is on line competition. Every retailer faces the same problems but M & S and John Lewis are by far the best prepared for market changes. On the other hand I do not think Debenhams will last a whole lot longer. H of F is Chinese owned and while its losing money they will likely try longer to turn it around. Retail is not in a healthy state though is it.

And finally, M and S have over 1000 stores and have or are closing about 30 of them or so announced; hardly the majority.

Yes I agree with you on the online situation, but going by the two stores they had here in Tallinn the designs and the quality was not up to much considering the prices, which were quite high. Needless to say these were closed last year, as M & S had already started to downsize and the overseas stores were probably the first to go.  I really miss the fact that I cannot get certain items they sold in the food department.  I know they were suffering years ago because of old fashioned designs etc and they appointed a new CE who dragged them up into the 20th century, unfortunately he retired some years ago and since then they have IMO, as i said,  gone downhill again and I still think this is the main reason for their problems. They need someone like him to get them into the 21st century.

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On 2/13/2018 at 06:41, Major Isewater said:

The club don't expect promotion and aren't chasing it . Which probably means that a half hearted attempt won't succeed .

At least we know where we stand.

One quote from our friends the Post 

Ashton went on to confirm that the club are set up for the long term and are not specifically targeting promotion this season."

Reading between the lines of the interview in full it is clear that we are not prepared to jeopardise the long term future of the club but equally that we do not think that we will get promoted this season and therefore haven't taken the necessary action to really push for it . 

I applaud the stance but still feel that this is an opportunity we look like missing . 

Reading the headline , I wondered if he had selected himself at right back :shifty:

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On 14/02/2018 at 07:40, MC RISK77 said:

This is my big worry, if we do not get promoted it will surely be a huge task to commit these players to Ashton gate when bigger clubs start to circle.

it could be a interesting summer at Ashton gate if we are still in the championship with the spine and heart of our team the likes of Flint/Bryan/pack/smith surely being targeted by other clubs

I can see both sides to the argument, but what about the players themselves ?

I would love to know how the key members of the squad (those who could possibly hold their own in the Premier League) felt about our window business and Mr Ashton's comments. Some may never get another chance to play at that level, so this season offers the best opportunity for them.

They may well all buy into the longer term strategy, but I would be surprised if it was universally accepted human nature being what it is, and whilst they are all professional, some may feel let down.

My point being, this could have an adverse affect on the morale and ultimately performance levels of what appears to be a very good bunch of men.

Time will tell.

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On 14/02/2018 at 11:50, Robert the bruce said:

For a beginnings a striker whom isn't bereft of confidence,has experience of playing in England,who won't need considerable adjustment/bedding in time before ( if we're lucky) making genuine contribution...oh,and has some kind of recent goalscoring record..

So the conditions are, a striker with a good enough record in English football to improve our squad, who their club is willing to let leave mid way through a season. Care to offer any names of these readily available targets?

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46 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

So the conditions are, a striker with a good enough record in English football to improve our squad, who their club is willing to let leave mid way through a season. Care to offer any names of these readily available targets?

Money Talks

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44 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

So the conditions are, a striker with a good enough record in English football to improve our squad, who their club is willing to let leave mid way through a season. Care to offer any names of these readily available targets?

No one said it would be easy but that's what Mark Ashton and company are paid handsomely to do , not Bristol86 .

 I would suggest that players nearing the end of their contracts may have seen a loan to City as an opportunity, either as a shop window for their talents or with a view to a permanent transfer if all went well. 

 

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28 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

No one said it would be easy but that's what Mark Ashton and company are paid handsomely to do , not Bristol86 .

 I would suggest that players nearing the end of their contracts may have seen a loan to City as an opportunity, either as a shop window for their talents or with a view to a permanent transfer if all went well. 

 

Yes but there’s still a finite pool of players that meet X number of conditions. They can’t magic potential targets out of nowhere. Especially if everyone wants ‘Championship proven’. The trouble is every team challenging wants that, and sometimes you have to know your place in the food chain. 

I’d rather we brought in no one at all than bring in players just for the purpose of pacifying fans and having something to announce.

We just don’t have the resources to beat the likes of Derby and Villa to ‘ready made/proven’ talent. Hence having to look where those clubs aren’t looking (ie players with potential to be a hit who you feel you can slot straight in like Walsh/Kent)

Edited by BRISTOL86
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On 14/02/2018 at 10:08, cidered abroad said:

Players come and go just the same as there is staff turnover in every workplace. It can have a detrimental effect but the stagnation caused by the lack of new blood can be much worse. 

Even in the most successful teams, it is normal to change at least a couple each season and we will be no different this summer. 

The trick is to continue to improve and improve and not replace better with worse. 

As a ‘consumer’ and to aid my ‘buy in’ to the development strategy, a genuine question.

Has the CEO ever revealed when the  ‘Company’ intend to deliver the ‘Premier League’ product? 

 

 

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I think MA is just trying to relieve pressure on everyone involved in a roundabout sort of way. Whilst I understand we are trying to build something here I do wonder that if we are not looking at promotion then what really is the point ?

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8 minutes ago, BigTone said:

I think MA is just trying to relieve pressure on everyone involved in a roundabout sort of way. Whilst I understand we are trying to build something here I do wonder that if we are not looking at promotion then what really is the point ?

Agree.

In some respects SL (and MA) could’ve sold Flint for £6m, but they’ve backed our promotion ‘chance’ by setting valuations to ward off bids / enquiries.  It’s not always about bringing players in.

 

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28 minutes ago, BigTone said:

I think MA is just trying to relieve pressure on everyone involved in a roundabout sort of way. Whilst I understand we are trying to build something here I do wonder that if we are not looking at promotion then what really is the point ?

The incoming transfers in the January transfer window didn't exactly say to the watching world that Bristol City are aiming to strengthen their promotion challenge. Actions speak louder than words.

 I have said before that no club seriously looking to get promoted to the ' best ' , richest League in the world would make do and mend their team.

We have needed a right back since the beginning of the season,even  if Pisano wasn't injured . We have no specialised back up / competition for him .

Do top clubs weaken their team by taking out an important element of the ' engine room ' or defence to cover a long term  injury ?

I admire and respect the way that this club is being run but Ashton's interview leads me to believe that we are not preparing for life in the Prem just yet so I feel a little sad that we may lose out on the best chance we've had for ten years through a  lack of courage.

I certainly don't want the club to mortgage its future but we've played it very safe it seems.

 I predict that if we don't go up this team will break up ( for better or for worse )

Flint, Bryan , Smith , Pack , Reid will I believe all seek new challenges .

We will have to rebuild. 

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1 hour ago, BigTone said:

I think MA is just trying to relieve pressure on everyone involved in a roundabout sort of way. Whilst I understand we are trying to build something here I do wonder that if we are not looking at promotion then what really is the point ?

Agree.

Its all well and good trying to build something but as others have said if players get sold this summer there is no guarantee's we will be able to replace, with the unpredictability and toughness of this league its not beyond the realms of possibility that we could struggle next season and the 2017/18 will really look like a season of missed opportunity.

Its all ifs and buts at the moment and to be fair BCFC finally does seem to be being run with a vision in mind so maybe my fears of the post 2008 decline is just paranoia on my part. I would just love it if we now were to kick on if we are at this level again and really be a promotion threat next season.

Edited by bris red

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Only time will tell . Not sure everyone will like Ashton’s words and may make their minds up that it’s massively negative when the club has been in such a good position . 

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50 minutes ago, shelts said:

Only time will tell . Not sure everyone will like Ashton’s words and may make their minds up that it’s massively negative when the club has been in such a good position . 

The marketing managers nightmare to be fair... what does he say now?

 How will he drum up season ticket sales,  shirt sales etc for next season, what exactly is our plan if when 2nd we choose to hold back?

Poor judgement from the club IMO

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10 minutes ago, KeepUpLino said:

The marketing managers nightmare to be fair... what does he say now?

 How will he drum up season ticket sales,  shirt sales etc for next season, what exactly is our plan if when 2nd we choose to hold back?

Poor judgement from the club IMO

He will say this season has been a massive step forward from last season (which it has) and encourage everyone to believe next season will see further upward progress and to come along for the ride.

Yes ok, I think we've fkd up too as I want to believe there's a middle way between splurging on an overpaid waster like Rhodes and taking a punt on an out of form foreigner who hasn't the first clue about the demands of the Championship or the way BCFC play. But that might just be a pipe dream. I dunno.  

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3 hours ago, Moor2Sea said:

As a ‘consumer’ and to aid my ‘buy in’ to the development strategy, a genuine question.

Has the CEO ever revealed when the  ‘Company’ intend to deliver the ‘Premier League’ product? 

 

 

When everything's "aligned" ;) 

Edited by Merrick's Marvels
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26 minutes ago, KeepUpLino said:

The marketing managers nightmare to be fair... what does he say now?

 How will he drum up season ticket sales,  shirt sales etc for next season, what exactly is our plan if when 2nd we choose to hold back?

Poor judgement from the club IMO

It’s a good arguargument. The club clearly has other thoughts though 

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46 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

He will say this season has been a massive step forward from last season (which it has) and encourage everyone to believe next season will see further upward progress and to come along for the ride.

Yes ok, I think we've fkd up too as I want to believe there's a middle way between splurging on an overpaid waster like Rhodes and taking a punt on an out of form foreigner who hasn't the first clue about the demands of the Championship or the way BCFC play. But that might just be a pipe dream. I dunno.  

This season? I would say we’ve totally overachieved for half of the season, built up momentum and even belief that the impossible was achievable and then squashed it in the January window... 

 As a good a season as it has been so far I feel we’ve ruined that good work already with some really negative business when our stock is quite possibly as high as it ever will be!!

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Could we have recruited to guarantee promotion?  

Could we have really pushed the boat out and guaranteed 2nd place?

What if we spent £20m, we are all happy, and Derby, or Villa, or Cardiff, etc, then spend £30m?

I still think we will finish top 6, and then we play the playoff lottery.

I totally get the views above, e.g. recruit from a position of strength, but I think all we could do in January was cement top 6 (maje it 90% certain - 10% cement still drying).  I don’t think we could or any other of Villa, Cardiff, Derby or Fulham could 100% guarantee auto promotion.  According to experimental 361 website, we are currently at 50% playoffs.

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1 hour ago, KeepUpLino said:

This season? I would say we’ve totally overachieved for half of the season, built up momentum and even belief that the impossible was achievable and then squashed it in the January window... 

 As a good a season as it has been so far I feel we’ve ruined that good work already with some really negative business when our stock is quite possibly as high as it ever will be!!

but it's still an improvement on last....

which was my point

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6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Could we have recruited to guarantee promotion?  

Could we have really pushed the boat out and guaranteed 2nd place?

What if we spent £20m, we are all happy, and Derby, or Villa, or Cardiff, etc, then spend £30m?

I still think we will finish top 6, and then we play the playoff lottery.

I totally get the views above, e.g. recruit from a position of strength, but I think all we could do in January was cement top 6 (maje it 90% certain - 10% cement still drying).  I don’t think we could or any other of Villa, Cardiff, Derby or Fulham could 100% guarantee auto promotion.  According to experimental 361 website, we are currently at 50% playoffs.

No guarantees as I have said many times but I feel we could have increased the odds in our favour with a bit more audacity .

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12 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

 

 I predict that if we don't go up this team will break up ( for better or for worse )

Flint, Bryan , Smith , Pack , Reid will I believe all seek new challenges .

We will have to rebuild. 

We are still talking about players from our L1 winning side then. Add in Fielding then over half of our mainstay this season was part of that team, and IMHO a significant reason why we have done so well this year. If we had not rushed out Ayling, we might even have had a right  back too. The team spirit created by the L1 winning side was notable, that such a large number of them, with a new footballing approach, tactics and fitness can now perform so well after having had time to adapt is very significant . We have added to them, Baker and Wright have improved  the first team/squad, but elsewhere, we have only fleetingly done so, Kodja/Tammy did at the time, Fama due to injuries maybe not yet this season. Brownhill , Patterson show glimpses of being there.  So for us to rebuild I worry that we will lose the core team spirit that has held the team together , and worse, to rebuild that in the summer, when we needed to build on that base, is going to be nigh on impossible with the financial constraints we have.

 I am not sure who we could have signed in January that was affordable and able to make an instant impact. But you would have gone the Grabben or Madine route if you wanted players able to make an impact. You then restart a cycle that we have not been good at and the current coaching team work better with younger players. But we were crying out for a player who was fit and able to contribute up front. If we wanted to take a gamble as such, that was where it was. Yes, we may well come to regret that , but we will never know, there are no guarantees are there. 

I thought it was very dangerous signing Kent. Unfit, talk of a contract where he is forced to be played, and where exactly does he fit in to the system ? Imagine you are a current player and someone is signed like that. Imagine as group you have achieved so much and a player turns up like that with those conditions. I am sure they all expected a forward with the injuries we have had, but not a potential Tomlin Mk 2. Anyway, the forward we did sign , again has not been playing and we know how long it takes to get them up to speed, look also at players we signed last January, where are they now too. It is rather simplistic to say we did not go for it, but if ever there was a time we needed to sign a forward who could make an instant impact, it was this January, and that costs money.Lots.  The lack of right back I can agree with, but despite attacking limitations, Wright with the other 3 has done well, they know what they are doing and built a great mutual respect and understanding. The team was tired after the cup run yes, but we should trust in them even if the last run of form is dire , the Sunderland game a sign of trying to be too clever and getting bitten badly, and also trying to integrate Diony and Kent.

Let the players who got us to second (Plus Fama who knows how we play and the type of league this is) and a great cup run do it, they will, and they will get to the play offs if we do not mess around with Kent and Diony and trying to improve our goal difference . I actually fancy us in the play offs due to the cup run experience of big games. 

Edited by Psychopomp
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13 hours ago, KeepUpLino said:

This season? I would say we’ve totally overachieved for half of the season, built up momentum and even belief that the impossible was achievable and then squashed it in the January window... 

 As a good a season as it has been so far I feel we’ve ruined that good work already with some really negative business when our stock is quite possibly as high as it ever will be!!

Agreed and of course this season isn't over yet, so we can't say we have improved until we have played game 46.

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