Don't know about you, but tonight is the night...

[spudski]

6 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

If you just want to remain in the Championship then it might work. 

I don't expect to go up, but I don't expect us to retain our better players if we don't go up.

In this day and age you can't spend years developing players and building a successful team. Clubs will buy your talent, even if it is just to stick on the bench or in the stiffs.

The cost to replace like for like will also be difficult, especially with our wage structure. So we may take 2 steps forward followed by 2 or 3 back and then slow steps forward again.

I'm not embarrassed, I'm being realistic.

So what's wrong with that? Especially after how we've been run for so many years before. There are plenty of foreign players and hungry british players wanting to play here and prove themselves. Why not feel proud of your club trying to do it the right way...instead of bobbing along doing what every other club is doing. Just wait to the complete melt down if we ever make the Prem...trust me...it will look like a wurzels day out in the smoke. How much???????????

Look at all the other teams in this division and tell me what they are doing that's so special that we aren't?

We sit 7th after two seasons up.

2 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

One word - Cardiff.

Dont want to play like them, don't want their manager.

BUT they will be in the PL next season with zero infrastructure.

I find your posts intelligent and insightful however, what I don't understand is your reluctance to realize that to be a self - sustaining club and to grow, we need to get to the PL sooner rather than later.

There is a point, and that is not far away, when the odds are so stacked against us that it becomes impossible.

I despise that fact, but my anger is not going to change it.

 

 

 

 

Even if they do go up...lets see where they are in three years time. Think Hull and Sunderland.

[SedRA]

23 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

I am so frustrated reading posts like this - and I do not wish to disrespect the poster in any way -  these chances do not come every season regardless of keeping all the players and staff, there is zero chance we can guarantee next season we will be in the same situation with the same opportunity.

It looks like we have blown it and for me much of that is down to the cup run.

I believe the players got ahead of themselves - media chat, transfer talk, big moves etc. As did the coaching staff.

And a dreadful January window

We had a huge chance of automatic, and that is not going to happen clearly.

This is a very hard league to get out of and you have to seize the moment, sadly, we didn't, and for all the talk of building and 'respect for what the club are trying to do' ultimately we will probably never get to the PL because of the lack of ambition.

You’re entitled to feel frustrated at the post but it doesn’t change that it’s the truth, as stated by Mark Ashton. 

And you can be frustrated at my appreciation of what the club are trying to do, but with all due respect I would say that’s because you don’t really understand it or you coming at it very emotionally, as is understandable.

This is the approach of a lot of the successful clubs that have gone up in recent seasons Brighton, Burnley etc. They are well run clubs, they have spent within their means and have gradually built up the finances and infrastructure to be a force over time. They haven’t panic bought or sacked their managers at the drop of a hat, even when relegated in Burnley’s case. If were in Burnley’s position when they got relegated a couple of seasons ago, we’d have the same posters on here who are impatient and impulsive demanding dyche was sacked. 

It might annoy you but this is the approach we are taking and I much prefer it to some impulsive glory seeking attitude that could throw us into trouble for years to come if it doesn’t pay off (or even if it does, as seen with some clubs). This club is heading in the right direction and in time people will come to appreciate it. 

[pillred]

1 hour ago, Lordofthebling said:

Yep. I think for the first time I feel that the players dont believe, and we should look to build and go again next season. Really pains me yo say that.

Anything other than that is a bonus for me.

I think we crumble under pressure. Young team and all...

they are not that young really most mid twenties, it cant be used as an excuse, sorry but there are plenty of younger players in the premier league already full internationals.

[Gert Mare]

4 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

No the plan is to buy young promising players and develop them. The better players can see what's going on and stay (Flint etc). Get decent loan players in and you can get up to Prem without spending crazy - like Huddersfield etc. 

Wow. Well, fair play to you being so optimistic. In over 40 years of watching City I'm afraid I am far more cynical. In fact, if I'm honest I don't really like where football is going as a whole. Certainly don't feel as passionate as I did during the 70's and 80's.

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

So what's wrong with that? Especially after how we've been run for so many years before. There are plenty of foreign players and hungry british players wanting to play here and prove themselves. Why not feel proud of your club trying to do it the right way...instead of bobbing along doing what every other club is doing. Just wait to the complete melt down if we ever make the Prem...trust me...it will look like a wurzels day out in the smoke. How much???????????

Look at all the other teams in this division and tell me what they are doing that's so special that we aren't?

We sit 7th after two seasons up.

Even if they do go up...lets see where they are in three years time. Think Hull and Sunderland.

I don't think I can accept mediocrity and be happy with it for the long term. 

[Gert Mare]

8 minutes ago, RedSA said:

You’re entitled to feel frustrated at the post but it doesn’t change that it’s the truth, as stated by Mark Ashton. 

And you can be frustrated at my appreciation of what the club are trying to do, but with all due respect I would say that’s because you don’t really understand it or you coming at very emotionally as is understandable.

This is the approach of a lot of the successful clubs that have gone up in recent seasons Brighton, Burnley etc. They are well run clubs, they have spent within their means and have gradually built up the finances and infrastructure to be a force over time. They haven’t panic bought or sacked their managers at the drop of a hat, even when relegated in Burnley’s case. If were in Burnley’s position when they got relegated a couple of seasons ago, we’d have the same posters on here who are impatient and impulsive demanding dyche was sacked. 

It might annoy you but this is the approach we are taking and I much prefer it to some impulsive glory seeking attitude that could throw us into trouble for years to come if it doesn’t pay off (or even if it does, as seen with some clubs). This club is heading in the right direction and in time people will come to appreciate it. 

I can't see it myself, but I hope to God that you are right?!

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

Wow. Well, fair play to you being so optimistic. In over 40 years of watching City I'm afraid I am far more cynical. In fact, if I'm honest I don't really like where football is going as a whole. Certainly don't feel as passionate as I did during the 70's and 80's.

I don't think I can accept mediocrity and be happy with it for the long term. 

But you excepted going up under Dicks, which took years to build, and then be very average to poor, whilst he handed out contracts that were obscene and almost killed the club.

Mate...you're just feeling frustrated as we all are.

Be careful what you wish for...do you fancy ending up like Stoke, because that's the reality of being outside the top 6/7 of the prem.

[Gert Mare]

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

But you excepted going up under Dicks, which took years to build, and then be very average to poor, whilst he handed out contracts that were obscene and almost killed the club.

Mate...you're just feeling frustrated as we all are.

Be careful what you wish for...do you fancy ending up like Stoke, because that's the reality of being outside the top 6/7 of the prem.

You can't compare the 1970's to now. We had a particularly good youth side that reached the FA Youth Cup Final. We threw in a lot of those players who had never been in the spotlight, but who had been at the club for a long time. We had luck in terms of injuries and Cheese hit form with Tom Ritchie and it was enough to see us through in that small window.

Cheese was finished after just 2 games and he was irreplaceable with our resources.

We weren't awful in those 4 seasons. 78/79 was particularly good. Losing Norman in 79 was the end. Absolute legend of a player and fully committed.

I'd taken being Stoke. I work with a Stokie and he would rather be a Stokie than one of us.

[spudski]

6 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

You can't compare the 1970's to now. We had a particularly good youth side that reached the FA Youth Cup Final. We threw in a lot of those players who had never been in the spotlight, but who had been at the club for a long time. We had luck in terms of injuries and Cheese hit form with Tom Ritchie and it was enough to see us through in that small window.

Cheese was finished after just 2 games and he was irreplaceable with our resources.

We weren't awful in those 4 seasons. 78/79 was particularly good. Losing Norman in 79 was the end. Absolute legend of a player and fully committed.

I'd taken being Stoke. I work with a Stokie and he would rather be a Stokie than one of us.

Small margins eh ;-)

I bid you goodnight fellow red...time to sleep and reflect in the morning. -)

[Gert Mare]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

Small margins eh ;-)

I bid you goodnight fellow red...time to sleep and reflect in the morning. -)

Yep. Agreed.

[Bris Red]

3 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

Personally never believed we would and said this throughout the season but I couldn’t be prouder to be a City fan. Just look at the clubs we’re competing with Fulham, Boro, Derby, Villa, Preston, Cardiff

All massive massive clubs compared to us and we are trying our upmost, we don’t have the money any of them do and yet we’re amongst it.

If we finish 6th or 12th it’s been a great season and a massive step in the right direction. 

I’m massively disappointed from the position we have been in but you also have to be a realist sometimes 

Massive clubs compared to us? Fulham Cardiff and Preston? Haha ill have whatever your smoking son!

[Bris Red]

3 hours ago, RedSA said:

You’re entitled to feel frustrated at the post but it doesn’t change that it’s the truth, as stated by Mark Ashton. 

And you can be frustrated at my appreciation of what the club are trying to do, but with all due respect I would say that’s because you don’t really understand it or you coming at it very emotionally, as is understandable.

This is the approach of a lot of the successful clubs that have gone up in recent seasons Brighton, Burnley etc. They are well run clubs, they have spent within their means and have gradually built up the finances and infrastructure to be a force over time. They haven’t panic bought or sacked their managers at the drop of a hat, even when relegated in Burnley’s case. If were in Burnley’s position when they got relegated a couple of seasons ago, we’d have the same posters on here who are impatient and impulsive demanding dyche was sacked. 

It might annoy you but this is the approach we are taking and I much prefer it to some impulsive glory seeking attitude that could throw us into trouble for years to come if it doesn’t pay off (or even if it does, as seen with some clubs). This club is heading in the right direction and in time people will come to appreciate it. 

But Burnley needed that initial promotion in 2009 to kick start them ultimately to the position they are in. Its the then years of parachute payments and increased status that help you get back up to the Prem and then stay there, Burnley are a good example of that but they NEEDED that initial year in the top flight.. weather we are ready or not as a club right now is irrelevant, the chance just like in 2008 presented itself and we as a club haven’t taken it when this was our big chance to get up there even just for a season..absolutely rubbish to say we are not ready, with the financial rewards for promotion nowadays you are made to be ready over night pretty much with the amount of ££ that would flood into the club initially and then over the next X amount if relegated.

Many will say we will come again next season and we are building, its all ifs and buts at the moment and we may well be a play off/ automatic contender next season but as history has shown with BCFC and especially the demise after the 2007/08 season can you really blame fans for thinking history is going to repeat itself? Again people will shout me down with the ‘club is run so much more differently now to 2008’ but is it really? The Lansdown family are still at the helm let me just remind people 

[The Gasbuster]

4 minutes ago, bris red said:

But Burnley needed that initial promotion in 2009 to kick start them ultimately to the position they are in. Its the then years of parachute payments and increased status that help you get back up to the Prem and then stay there, Burnley are a good example of that but they NEEDED that initial year in the top flight.. weather we are ready or not as a club right now is irrelevant, the chance just like in 2008 presented itself and we as a club haven’t taken it when this was our big chance to get up there even just for season..

Many will say we will come again next season and we are building, its all ifs and buts at the moment and we may well be a play off/ automatic contender next season but as history has shown with BCFC and especially the demise after the 2007/08 season can you really blame fans for thinking history is going to repeat itself? Again people will shout me down with the ‘club is run so much more differently now to 2008’ but is it really? The Lansdown family are still at the helm let me just remind people 

On another thread, the point was made that "we have been found out" with our style of play.

We play some great football at times, and long may it continue, but next season IMO will be tougher. More of the opposition will negate our press. Next season we will end up mid table or lower, like Reading have this season.

[Bris Red]

1 minute ago, The Gasbuster said:

On another thread, the point was made that "we have been found out" with our style of play.

We play some great football at times, and long may it continue, but next season IMO will be tougher. More of the opposition will negate our press. Next season we will end up mid table or lower, like Reading have this season.

Exactly mate. Its all well and good people saying we are building and are not ready for promotion but if the scenario you said happens which is quite likely, coupled with the fact that one or two key players could be off then its not going to be easy. 

Bottom line was our business January just wasn’t good enough when it needed to be.. 

[Alessandro]

8 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

One word - Cardiff.

Dont want to play like them, don't want their manager.

BUT they will be in the PL next season with zero infrastructure.

I find your posts intelligent and insightful however, what I don't understand is your reluctance to realize that to be a self - sustaining club and to grow, we need to get to the PL sooner rather than later.

There is a point, and that is not far away, when the odds are so stacked against us that it becomes impossible.

I despise that fact, but my anger is not going to change it.

 

 

 

 

I don’t agree with your statement about Cardiff having zero infrastructure. 

They’ve had parachute payments, have one of the top 4 or 5 largest wage bills in the championship. They have a modern 30k plus stadium and top training facilities in the same complex the Welsh football and rugby teams train at.

That was all in place before they got promoted.

Then add a foreign owner who came in and splashed a load of cash around.

[SedRA]

5 hours ago, bris red said:

But Burnley needed that initial promotion in 2009 to kick start them ultimately to the position they are in. Its the then years of parachute payments and increased status that help you get back up to the Prem and then stay there, Burnley are a good example of that but they NEEDED that initial year in the top flight.. weather we are ready or not as a club right now is irrelevant, the chance just like in 2008 presented itself and we as a club haven’t taken it when this was our big chance to get up there even just for a season..absolutely rubbish to say we are not ready, with the financial rewards for promotion nowadays you are made to be ready over night pretty much with the amount of ££ that would flood into the club initially and then over the next X amount if relegated.

Many will say we will come again next season and we are building, its all ifs and buts at the moment and we may well be a play off/ automatic contender next season but as history has shown with BCFC and especially the demise after the 2007/08 season can you really blame fans for thinking history is going to repeat itself? Again people will shout me down with the ‘club is run so much more differently now to 2008’ but is it really? The Lansdown family are still at the helm let me just remind people 

Yes, it took 5 years of life in the championship for Burnley to get to that promotion in 2009. And what did Burnley do with that money from the initial promotion? Spent it on infrastructure, coaching/scouting staff, facilities as well as a small increase in transfer funds and wages (but still pretty reasonable for a championship club). They then spent 4 years consolidating and building before returning to the PL. 

We’re already on the path of what Burnley did post promotion as we are lucky enough to have a very rich owner in Steve Lansdown who is building all those things before we even get promoted. In that sense we are much closer to Brighton, who have done exactly what we are doing and developed the club pre-promotion and obviously undermine your argument that you NEED to get promoted through a lucky season/throwing money at players before you can build in this way. 

If we had been around tenth all season everyone would be happy with the progress (well most, you’ll always have some moaners), but the fact we overachieved earlier in the season has meant that a number of fans are now dissapointed if we don’t qualify for the playoffs. Don’t get me wrong, I agree our January transfers have been pretty poor and understand the dissapointment but I am happy the club are taking this more mature approach and don’t think this season will have been a ‘spectacular mess up’ in the long run. 

[Red7]

10 hours ago, Sniper said:

I think personally I'd like to avoid the playoffs now.

We're not good enough to win them, and I most definitely don't want to give the gas bellends another hero to worship, so it's a no from me.

Hopefully buy a few more quality players in the summer, while fingers crossed not losing any key players, and go again next season.

Even though it's been a great season so far I'm mentally exhausted with it all now, and just want to hit the end of season button.

You'd seriously rather finish outside the top 6 rather than in the top 6? There's a lottery aspect to the play-offs. It's not always the strongest team or the form team that gets promoted from them. Whilst the gas are undoubtedly bellends, I will never ever base what I want us to do based on what those ***** think about it. I hope the players and staff don't give up like you do. I don't buy all this bollox about us not being ready to go up. We're just as ready as any of the other sides in this division. Otherwise why even enter the competition?

[ScottishRed]

14 hours ago, Alessandro said:

I don’t agree with your statement about Cardiff having zero infrastructure. 

They’ve had parachute payments, have one of the top 4 or 5 largest wage bills in the championship. They have a modern 30k plus stadium and top training facilities in the same complex the Welsh football and rugby teams train at.

That was all in place before they got promoted.

Then add a foreign owner who came in and splashed a load of cash around.

How exactly do you know that they have "one of the top 4 or 5 wage bills in the championship" ? Do you work in their payroll team?    No, thought not.

Please don't tell me that huge assumption is based on some highly questionable  information on this website?

Nobody knows any teams wage bills, so please don't make false claims.

I think you may have noticed that we now have a rather nice stadium and I think we may be looking at enhancing our training facilities.

Yes, they have had parachute payments and they make a difference and therefore to allow us to compete in the longer term we need to get promoted with all of the access to £ that it delivers.

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

23 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

Personally never believed we would and said this throughout the season but I couldn’t be prouder to be a City fan. Just look at the clubs we’re competing with Fulham, Boro, Derby, Villa, Preston, Cardiff

All massive massive clubs compared to us and we are trying our upmost, we don’t have the money any of them do...

Stephen Lansdown is worth 2.3 Billion USD - so we do have the money....but, having said that, I totally get that it’s Steve’s money and he doesn’t have to spend it on Bristol City FC if he doesn’t want to, and I totally agree with that, it’s his bloody money, not ours.

So, our owner does have the money to compete with the clubs you listed....but if he chooses not to, I totally respect that, it’s his dosh that he’s worked incredibly hard to earn, it ain’t ours and it’s none of our business...

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 hours ago, Alessandro said:

I don’t agree with your statement about Cardiff having zero infrastructure. 

They’ve had parachute payments, have one of the top 4 or 5 largest wage bills in the championship. They have a modern 30k plus stadium and top training facilities in the same complex the Welsh football and rugby teams train at.

That was all in place before they got promoted.

Then add a foreign owner who came in and splashed a load of cash around.

Agreed. That ground will also have all the corporate facilities etc that we do...most modern grounds have, most redeveloped grounds with space, scope etc would.

I'd say we are in a better position than many clubs to exploit the new facilities...but most modern grounds or redeveloped grounds have these revenue streams.

As for the poster who said Cardiff have no infrastructure, I really had no idea where they were coming from with that view.

[South-of-river]

Football is a business these days. Profit comes first and results 2nd. End of.

[Alessandro]

14 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

How exactly do you know that they have "one of the top 4 or 5 wage bills in the championship" ? Do you work in their payroll team?    No, thought not.

Please don't tell me that huge assumption is based on some highly questionable  information on this website?

Nobody knows any teams wage bills, so please don't make false claims.

I think you may have noticed that we now have a rather nice stadium and I think we may be looking at enhancing our training facilities.

Yes, they have had parachute payments and they make a difference and therefore to allow us to compete in the longer term we need to get promoted with all of the access to £ that it delivers.

 

Well actually, you don’t need to be on a club’s payroll to look at their accounts. All freely available. So it’s not a huge assumption at all, it is a fact that in 15/16 they had the 3rd highest wage bill in the championship, around £31m, behind QPR and Fulham.

It’s fair to say that that figure will have been cut, I’ve not seen their accounts, but rumoured to be down in the £20m’s last season and they’ve spent a bit more this season so it may have creeped up. Without listing everyone I imagine a wage bill in the that region would be top 10 minimum, possibly higher. Top 5 actually was probably a little high on my part.

EITHERWAY - 2 points. 1) Their current wage bill is still competitive for the division (and probably larger than ours), and even more importantly, that’s actually irrelevant, because when they went up the first time their wage bill was £32m funded by big spending Tan. So they hardly went up on a shoe string, did they? 

So you said “zero infrastructure” - that is patently incorrect in every way. As I’ve said already, they have a 30k plus modern stadium, excellent training facilities at the same complex as the national rugby/football teams, and the House of Sport for their academy. All excellent, premier league standard infrastructure. All in a city which although a little smaller than greater Bristol, is still a capital city with capital city funding to boot. Hence why Cardiff actually has better sporting and leisure facilities than Bristol. 

Yes we now have an upgraded stadium, but our new training ground is still in the planning stage, and although the plans look very exciting and the facilities will be top quality all round, it’s still some time off reality.

This isn’t me saying Cardiff is better than Bristol, just that if you think they’ve got “zero infrastructure” then we are league two level.

I see the argument for chasing the parachute payments to get that leg up. It worked for some, Burnley and Bournemouth for example. But for everyone of those is a Sunderland, Hull or QPR. All clubs sinking with large bills and debts, irrespective of parachute payments.

So back to Cardiff again for the final time. Going for the premier league in the way they did under Tan has left them with debts of over £100m. They may be looking good right now in the league (and promotion would be a big achievement) but it’s not done yet and if they don’t go up this season their financial position will be even tighter as their parachute payments end this summer.

If they don’t go up, next season will be an ever stretched and cut wage bill and spending, and club debts of over £100m over their heads - the very existence of the club potentially in danger.....they’ll need a hell of a lot more than those parachute payments you seem desperate for.

All worth it? For one, one season in the premier league?