Alessandro

There’s a few on here using that win last night as justification to say they’re vindicated for their strong support of Manning - and sticking the knife those who’ve, rightly ImO, been critical of an otherwise underwhelming, and at times little streaky, reign under Manning so far. As I said in another thread, the last 4 ‘results’ have been very good - but in those 4 games we’ve been the beneficiary of some poor finishing (Vardy) and top keeping from Max (v Sunderland in an otherwise pretty poor showing) and we were literally gift wrapped 4 goals last night. So all I’m saying is, within that nice run, it’s not all been perfect sailing - we’ve ridden our luck at times and despite the clean sheets we’ve continued to give away big chances, statistically that will catch us up. That’s not taking away however from a big improvement from Manning, playing a footballing style that is better suited to the squad finally and more akin to what was suggested the club wanted when they appointed him. Hopefully that means he has adapted (voluntarily or otherwise) which would be very good news. Big improvement but as I say, I’m not celebrating anything yet….long way to go. EDIT - I dare say the results uptick have also been helped in part by the return of a player we don’t have next season too…

Yes it’s nice win but you’re absolutely right. I don’t think you can understate how poor Blackburn were tonight. If a team wins 5-0 either you’re meeting a hugely talented attacking team or the losing team have capitulated. Given the fact we’ve only won a game by more than 2 goals 3 times all season and only 8 teams in the league have scored less goals than us… Add in Blackburn’s current bottom 6 form and the fact they have the 2nd leakiest defence in the league. Suggests more of the latter. A nice win yes, credit for that - but IMo people probably shouldn’t get too carried away though on the back of tonight…

A little run of good results is nothing particularly new, we’ve been streaky for years. Can Manning make us more consistent? Personally (not getting heady after winning 5 nil) I’m reserving judgment for a longer sample of games - especially as in the last few results we’ve been on the right end of some awful finishing (Vardy), Max at his best on multiple occasions and a Blackburn side that gifted, literally handed us 4 goals tonight. False dawn or not? Eitherway, we’ll find out next season as Manning will have his shot…

Am I right, they’ve had £19 MILLION of tax payers money, just to “clear the site”? This ******* country…..

Steve Torpey - fills a gap in our squad…..

No offence but I don’t think that is good analogy at all. No one is on here moaning about “Lansdown said we were getting promoted and now we aren’t, I want my promotion they promised” No one is complaining because we aren’t getting promoted this season. No one is saying that’s what they expected. It’s the club talking about promotion. 99% knew it was unrealistic. The issue for me is the disconnect between what they say and the reality. Why do they say it? Does that matter? That’s the whole debate, should they be held accountable for their comments? I suppose it depends on what you think of their role as stewards of the club? Is Bristol City there simply to exist or to genuinely strive to get as far up the pyramid as possible? I think when the club say one thing and do another they open themselves up to criticism and I think it’s fair for fans to ask those questions about the methodology - especially if the aim is more than simply ‘existing’

Yes there is no direct “top 6” quote (although to all but the most belligerent, top 6 is implied in the word promotion) - actually I think what they said was worse - “promotion” specifically mentioned on numerous occasions. So note for everyone on OTIB - yes the club didn’t want Manning to simply get us into the top 6 - they wanted PROMOTION. Just for future yard stick reference in discussions regarding his performance. Happy for mods to pin this comment to avoid future confusion.

Really? Why do people keep saying they never said this?!?…..: “We all wanted Nigel to achieve our ambition to be promoted but, with our recent results, feel that now is the time to make a change to give the club the best possible chance of success.” - JL ‘We want to get promoted this year' - Bristol City board on decision to sack Nigel Pearson - from Gavin Marshall https://www.bcfc.co.uk/video/interviews/jon-lansdown-talks-about-coaching-change/ Takes JL 30 seconds to mention premier league and best squad we’ve had here in my time - to name a few quick quotes.

Presume you’re referring in first paragraph to Pearson? Second Manning. I don’t disagree with you - but my point is what do both those statements have in common? The one denominator - Steve Lansdown and his board - A) Pearson and Gould clearing up THEIR mess and B) Manning getting it from the fans because THEY again set him up for failure with their top 6 comments.

As I say, one man’s context is another man’s excuses… The second paragraph is more examples of mismanagement and underachievement - yes Steve did, relatively, have a go a few years ago. I say relatively, because it was still upper mid table budgets and we basically spent what we sold. But does that mean we don’t ever have a go again? Or rather should the club learn from its mistakes and not gamble on putting unproven people in hugely important positions in the club? Maybe bring in someone trustworthy and experienced as CEO…like Gould instead of Ashton. And a manager who’s been there and done it, like Pearson instead of Johnson. Oh wait, we had those, but now we’re back to unproven again in Tinnion and Manning - and without the investment - and we should all just say oh well, it is what it is.

I agree with much of your post, it's a very sensible, realistic one. But I just want to pick up on your sentences in bold - I've seen this kind of comment quite a lot on here recently: Something along the lines of "this is the way it's alway's been with City" or "it used to be much worse" and "it's football, it's tough, nothing's a given" etc etc. And I just don't like it. At all - it's so...defeatist. So unambitious. So mediocre. Do you think that's the attitude Ipswich have at the moment? Or Luton before them. Or Brentford before them? I could go on. Yes it's a tough league and nothing is a given, but we should as a club and a fan base, be striving and demanding so much more from the club, even with the level of investment, IMO, we should be competing higher up the league. The reason's for that have been done to death - but I personally don't subscribe to this "it is what it is" attitude. I believe the "10 seasons in the championship" is not necessarily the badge of honour you think. Why: Well IMO mid-table championship is Bristol City's par - the fact we've spent so much time under that level shows how we've underachieved as a club and the fact we've been talking about 'potential' for 20 years shows every year more at mid-table in the championship is not fulfilling our potential.

Of course - but gives them the funds to push FFP to the limit. Look at us, we must have a nice buffer in our FFP, but if Lansdown uses the revenue from Scott and Semenyo, for example, to pay for wages and other running costs, instead of ploughing back into squad, that FFP buffer means nothing. Ipswich can afford to spend what they earn, and Ashton will no doubt be maxing those revenue streams, all the while there is little jeopardy over the funds. Can they not also use it for development, academy etc? Go cat 1 and use the funds to outgun other clubs in area for best youngsters etc etc.

Phrased as investment “up to” - so presume that’s staggered over a period or even subject to clauses, promotion etc? Either way, even if they don’t go up this season, that’s Ipswich propelled to a higher level of spending that we could never match. And another championship club getting serious investment - despite us advertising for it, doesn’t seem anyone is interested? Bit depressing.

This is a favourite comment when someone find themselves in the minority of opinion and as the proverbial kite in a hurricane on here. I would suggest the mood here is a pretty good representation of the wider fan base and is seen on social media too - this is also reflected in the general poor atmosphere and unrest at times at Ashton Gate at the moment, coupled with the increasing number of empty seats clearly visible recently.

I was talking about this on another thread today - it’s considered to be ‘fact’ Tinnion is THE academy man. He seems to get the majority of plaudits for our youth set up, but the question is…is that fair?? The fact is - he’s wasn’t head of the academy until 2021 - when the last crop of academy boys had made their first team debuts - Scott, Conway and Bell etc. The plaudits there should be going to Gary Probert, academy manager for 9 years - who left to go to….Ipswich…. Semenyo, Scott, Conway, Bell, Vyner, Max, Pring, Kelly, Bryan, Bobby… all pre- Tinnion as manager of the academy. We also know the pathway has been a success in recent years, but that was ironically largely due to FFP blunder transfer restrictions and NP having to blood so many. Before 2021 he was part of the scouting team and he was the loan manager (remember NP’s comment on that) - but credit to him for his part in finding some of these players. We are yet to see what ‘his’ crop of 2021 onwards boys can do at first level, the supply has seemingly slowed. Perhaps in part because they are chasing FA youth cup glory? Now we have more room with the cash, you could argue the Jan signings he made have played a part in blocking the pathway. Interestingly in my research for all this - you get the sense for some years the club have been grooming Tinnion for this role. In all the articles about the success of the academy or signings of youngsters like Scott etc - there is Tinnion “loan manager” in the picture with the player and sometimes Probert. And it’s often Tinnion who is the one doing to media on the academy, despite him being “loan manager” or “pathway manager” - not Probert as head of the academy in the limelight, but Tinnion put forward. Hence why I think the perception is what it is and why I think he may be getting more credit than he’s due… Sorry if people think I’m being harsh on Tinnion - if anyone with a better knowledge of the academy can refute my analysis - I’m happy to stand corrected.

That post was in response to another that brought up the academy. And with respect, this is a public forum -all relevant discussion is allowed - there are no rules that say other things can’t be discussed in a thread - just ask the pun producers. If you don’t want to discuss one part of thread, just skim over it.

Can you reference any of those interviews, any links? Just I've never seen them... "pivotal" - debatable. I've not mentioned his ability to express himself, so that's irrelevant to this discussion. He was one of a group that scouted players for the academy - in that role i'm happy for him to continue. Ironically, one could argue we're yet to see the product of his time as academy manager on the pitch - as the number of first team debuts have dried up - time will tell on that one too.

Yep all good to have opinions - but facts also help. The fact is our current crop of first team academy players (including recently departed Scott and Semenyo) were under the stewardship of Gary Probert as academy manager. Talking of Alex Scott (as you mentioned premier league players earlier), he wasn't discovered or coached by BT - Scott was already in the first team when BT became academy manager in October 21. Same goes for Conway (1st team debut mid 21) and Bell (early 22) in reality. Yes BT has played a big role in scouting and bringing in youth players, Semenyo for example, and we give him credit for that and he can continue in that role no problem. But that's only the very start of the process - back to Scott again - my opinion this time - i'd give far more credit to the lad himself, his family, the city youth coaches, the England youth coaches, NP and his coaches, and Phil Alexander or even SL for the sale - than I would BT in any of the process. That's not me saying he doesn't get any credit, but keep it in perspective.

Yes well done Brian, you are one cog in a big machine. I think the vast majority have given and do give him credit for his part in that process - but I also think some want to give him more credit than he might actually be due, in that process. And I also think the vast majority of fans also believe that, regardless, all of that doesn't add up to justify the promotion into the position he is now in at the club.

You do realise that when a player comes through our academy and is sold on, that is down to numerous individuals within the club, not just being 'nursed' by Brian Tinnion, right?

So £60m for WBA - Have a made up the figure of £200m SL wants for City? Was that reported or is it rumours??

I was saying this 3 or 4 years in the Ashton days! Look at the setup of a club like Brentford, Brighton, Bournemouth, Villa etc. They have structures like this before you get to the head coach etc: CEO Director of Football Technical director or COO Head of Academy Head of recruitment Financial director Commercial director Obviously each club differs and some roles overlap - but we basically have 2 or 3 people doing the roles of sometimes 5,6,7 people at other clubs. Step one move Tinnion sideways to Head of Academy and Pathway. Then employ, as a minimum, a Head of Football and a new head of recruitment. Both with relevant premier league or champ experience, not some project person. Set your budget - then JL and SL step back big time, stay out the dressing room. Stay out the weekly meetings.

I said a couple of months back it's always felt like when the club talk about the academy and pathway: The emphasis is on producing players to sell to the premier league... and therefore to take all the plaudits and say ooh look we sold X for ££££££££ aren't we good - rather than Producing players to build a squad to get Bristol City to the premier league... This stuff about coming out about the FA youth cup kind of proves that doesn't it.

15 seconds in - "it's a squad that should be at the top end of the division" This interview's not aged well at all: "we're clear now in how we want to play and be, a front foot team. We want to be aggressive, we want to play forward, we've got pace in the team" "The next head coach has to develop this team into the way we want to play as a football club...it's going to be a long term thing for the football club" "You'll see a lot of young players coming through the academy into the team" "we've got a squad that's built to play the way we want to play" R.E ironic injury quotes - "you have to make sure players a trained a certain way to play the way we want to play...'we've' fall short a little bit on that" - "when they're ready we want them back fit and to stay fit"

His very few 'supporters' can say it wasn't that bad (damning with faint praise) and that whatever he said we'd pick up on: Yes, no shit sherlock - If you're the technical director of a championship football club, at least be over the basic details and get them right - He's given us 2 or 3 statements that are either bare-faced lies or incompetently incorrect - neither answer is good. And then he's topped it off with some gem's like - I've been here 30 years I deserve this position, Manning is learning on the job, we want to be 10 points better off next year and disclosing disclosed transfer fees. All whilst insulting the fan base as if we'd all just get behind them all will be fine. An awful appearance from SL's worst (both times, can't make it up ) appointment.