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italian dave

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italian dave last won the day on July 23

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  1. A couple of newspaper headline this today - not sure whether there's anything in it, or it belongs in the 'irresponsible headlines' thread?
  2. I like the idea of an anti-vaxxers section towards which, even into which, Nakhi Wells could run to celebrate scoring.
  3. I think that if you're going to do anything like this then it needs to be done with clarity, transparency and clear data-driven rationale. Otherwise it will cause misunderstanding, confusion and will never get public consensus. And I agree with you (and @Baba Yaga) about the complete lack of any of those things from our government. Its just been yet another example of policy being made up as they go along, knee jerk response, constant u-turns, with no clear strategy. There are probably three reasons for having vaccine passports (and I'm not arguing for or against here, just setting out what the case might be): - short term as an alternative to tighter restrictions: we can open this up but there's a risk so the only way we can do it safely is to use passports - short term as amends of incentivising vaccinations: this is a public health imperative and if you go along with it you make the country safer and you get something out of it as a direct result - long term as a means of controlling an infectious disease: where the data supports the very clear benefits, ie with them the virus stops spreading, without them it doesn't. Seems to me that it's far too early for the last of those, not least because the data isn't even available, let alone clear. I give you two scenarios, both starting where we were a month or two ago: 1. We hope that we will be able to relax restrictions in July. We're confident we'll be able to do so as long as cases don't rise. As cases start to rise the message becomes more cautious: the data is highlighting the risks of opening up too quickly, we need to go forward cautiously and we're looking at whether its sensible to relax restrictions and at other measures that might be necessary, including vaccine passports. As numbers continue to rise: we are still confident vaccines are helping keep this under control but given the rise in cases, hospitalisations etc we don't want to relax everything as completely as we'd intended. However, we can still take that a significant step with the reassurance that other measures, including vaccine passports in the short term, will give us. 2. Freedom Day will happen in July and it will be irreversible. We're aware the numbers are continuing to rise but vaccines vaccines vaccines. We have no plans for vaccine passports. And when the day arrives, with continuing rises in cases, along with the challenge that scientists are warning this is at best risky and irresponsible, I need to manage this news conference - so I'll suggest that we're going to introduce vaccine passports, even though we haven't really thought it through and we'll need to backtrack and obfuscate in a few hours time. No surprise when the UK, using the second approach, finds people confused and angry.
  4. Mines not arrived yet, but I’ve had two emails over the past few weeks to let me know what’s happening. Seems like the club have taken on board the suggestions (including on here) that it’s not difficult to mail something to everyone just to provide reassurance. Unless I missed it there haven’t been the traditional ‘where’s my season ticket’ panics on here this year?
  5. Good point. And even more likely, the prospect of them all getting pinged. I wonder if the club will tell them to leave their phones at home?
  6. Do people not bet on which team will get relegated? Genuine question: I don’t do betting. But I’d just assumed people do, and that ‘favourites for promotion’ and ‘favourites for relegation’ are two separate things. Not just the same table the other way up. It might be unusual but couldn’t you get a situation where the same side is favourite for both?
  7. By all accounts we won't be here to do so....sorry! Riaz - I always had you down as a bit of a Corbyn-ista. Seems like I was right and wrong - I just had the wrong one in mind!
  8. I’m talking about the choices we make. And the consequences they have.
  9. Commit a crime, or breach a regulation. Yes, of course, that’s how governments work, that’s how society implements its constraints. Whether it’s in China or here - the laws might be different but the principle is the same.
  10. You evidently have more knowledge of China than I do. But it’s also the way society works here. Sometimes by mandate; you’re not free to drive on the right. Sometimes by prohibition if you choose not to comply: driving with poor eyesight, even if, for example, you could have had it corrected by treatment but chose not to because it involved injecting chemicals. I didn’t want to have my European citizenship taken away from me, or be deprived of my right to travel in Europe, but it’s happened because society mandated it by the election of Bozo.
  11. In the UK you are punished if you don’t comply with what the government wants.
  12. Well, several people have already had a go, but in the hope you’ll take notice of at least one. Thats based on the yellow card reporting scheme. Anyone can go through that scheme and report anything that they think happens to them after they’ve had the vaccine. Some people evidently take that very literally and report things that are blatantly unconnected. Others report things that almost certainly have no causal link. And other report minor inconveniences like the sore arm that probably 99% of all those getting the vaccine experience. A tiny proportion record what may or may not be more serious consequences. Now, for the third time of asking, are you seriously suggesting that pregnancy, redundancy and insect bites are among the consequences of vaccination? And, subsidiary question, is a sore arm really a reason for not getting a vaccination?
  13. Oh please……. I respect your right to your view on taking vaccines. But you are just peddling dangerous and untrue nonsense with this. I’m still waiting for you to explain the pregnancy, redundancy and insect bite consequences to having the vaccination.
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