Drones in Training, Passing Options

[Port Said Red]

From what I have seen this season there seems to be one big change in our passing game, in that it is more progressive than before. Although the players tried to build from the back last season, occasionally successfully, there were too many times where the  ball was played neatly across a back four and into the defensive midfield area, only to be then lumped forward when the number of options decreased. 

This season, the defenders, plus Pack and Smith seem to have more chances to move the ball forward on the ground, working it through the midfield. Often those passes are made at quite intricate angles, splitting between two or more opposition players. I think that a lot of this is made possible by the positions that the receiving players are taking up and I think this could be down to the drones that are used in training highlighting the angles that are made by taking up the right positions around the pitch. 

I am only looking at this from a layman's point of view, but I know we have a few coaches/technical people on here, perhaps they could give their view on whether they feel this is the sort of thing that they would hope to be able to highlight from the kind of video footage the drones must provide.

[Son of Fred]

SOD was a drone at training...

[Ohbasso]

I always used to find when watching City play the main difference between us and most of the better teams that we'd come up against was movement off the ball. We'd have players looking up and trying to find a decent pass along the ground but wouldn't have the right options available to play through the opposition so would just end up lumping hopeful balls towards the forwards.

This season our energy and movement off the ball is probably the best that I've ever seen from us, having such a young team must help with this too.

[Cowshed]

22 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

From what I have seen this season there seems to be one big change in our passing game, in that it is more progressive than before. Although the players tried to build from the back last season, occasionally successfully, there were too many times where the  ball was played neatly across a back four and into the defensive midfield area, only to be then lumped forward when the number of options decreased. 

This season, the defenders, plus Pack and Smith seem to have more chances to move the ball forward on the ground, working it through the midfield. Often those passes are made at quite intricate angles, splitting between two or more opposition players. I think that a lot of this is made possible by the positions that the receiving players are taking up and I think this could be down to the drones that are used in training highlighting the angles that are made by taking up the right positions around the pitch. 

I am only looking at this from a layman's point of view, but I know we have a few coaches/technical people on here, perhaps they could give their view on whether they feel this is the sort of thing that they would hope to be able to highlight from the kind of video footage the drones must provide.

Drones and similar are simply a means of communication.

We as human beings have different learning styles. 

A drone conveys information in a form which can be advantageous for those who learn more from being able to see rather than being told. So those passing angles will become more evident via different mediums for some individuals ... 

[Mr Popodopolous]

@Ohbasso

It sounds obvious but having a young team is so helpful to this kind of play. First, young players have a lot more energy, second they are keener to learn, to buy into what the coach wants. In terms of the pressing, energy, movement.

The drones seem a great idea too.

[RedM]

Apologies for mentioning Tomlin again but the difference with it without is astonishing. So much quicker, much more positive get the ball and move it forward counter attacking football. Maybe Tomlin thought his style had got him to where he was and didn't buy into drones etc, and with this style of play you only need one person not willing and the whole structure breaks down.

The players are really hardworking and fit, there must be so much going on in the background to get them like this, whether it's drones, icebaths or whatever they all seem to have bought into this package and are getting results right now. Long may it continue. 

[Cowshed]

50 minutes ago, RedM said:

Apologies for mentioning Tomlin again but the difference with it without is astonishing. So much quicker, much more positive get the ball and move it forward counter attacking football. Maybe Tomlin thought his style had got him to where he was and didn't buy into drones etc, and with this style of play you only need one person not willing and the whole structure breaks down.

The players are really hardworking and fit, there must be so much going on in the background to get them like this, whether it's drones, icebaths or whatever they all seem to have bought into this package and are getting results right now. Long may it continue. 

Lee Tomlin should not have been purchased if the intent was to send out a team to play high lines and high tempos. It requires shape and discipline where players will be interchangeable, but they will not be moving North South East West freely because the shape will collapse. Tomlin played that free number ten role, that is what was bought, he will slow the game down, but he could also unlock a compact defence by being played into and off which also injects tempo into a game.  

At present few teams play with specialist playmakers at all in offensive roles or a deep lying one. And that is what BCFC bought a specialist who was expected to then ignore his own highly creative specialist game ... Tomlin gets a bad press but as a signing its a case of what did people want, Lee Tomlin to be Lee Tomlin or something entirely different.

[Port Said Red]

6 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Lee Tomlin should not have been purchased if the intent was to send out a team to play high lines and high tempos. It requires shape and discipline where players will be interchangeable, but they will not be moving North South East West freely because the shape will collapse. Tomlin played that free number ten role, that is what was bought, he will slow the game down, but he could also unlock a compact defence by being played into and off which also injects tempo into a game.  

At present few teams play with specialist playmakers at all in offensive roles or a deep lying one. And that is what BCFC bought a specialist who was expected to then ignore his own highly creative specialist game ... Tomlin gets a bad press but as a signing its a case of what did people want, Lee Tomlin to be Lee Tomlin or something entirely different.

I think this is true. To a certain extent I think the club almost had to sign Tomlin. His performances on loan endeared him to the crowd to the extent that they were begging him to be signed. The powers that be seemed to be determined to make a crowd pleasing signing and they got him,  in some ways LJ was given an opportunity to prove that he was the wrong kind of signing , by signing him and then letting Tomlin self destruct. The down side was that he almost took the team and the Management team with him.

[westred1]

Drones were introduced halfway through Cotterill's reign. There's certainly a lot of other new equipment which has been spoken about by LJ that has come in since.

[RedM]

54 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Lee Tomlin should not have been purchased if the intent was to send out a team to play high lines and high tempos. It requires shape and discipline where players will be interchangeable, but they will not be moving North South East West freely because the shape will collapse. Tomlin played that free number ten role, that is what was bought, he will slow the game down, but he could also unlock a compact defence by being played into and off which also injects tempo into a game.  

At present few teams play with specialist playmakers at all in offensive roles or a deep lying one. And that is what BCFC bought a specialist who was expected to then ignore his own highly creative specialist game ... Tomlin gets a bad press but as a signing its a case of what did people want, Lee Tomlin to be Lee Tomlin or something entirely different.

To be honest at the time I don't think Lee Johnson knew what he wanted. The expectation was there to sign him and that's what happened. I don't regret him signing, he was exciting whilst on loan and if anything  I'm sure the club has learnt a lot from how it went pear-shaped, and we possibly wouldn't be enjoying a few good times now.

[22A]

Reading the title of this thread I assumed some rivals were flying camera equipped drones over City's training ground.

All joking aside, presumably some teams might already be doing that?

[Edge1981]

2 hours ago, westred1 said:

Drones were introduced halfway through Cotterill's reign. There's certainly a lot of other new equipment which has been spoken about by LJ that has come in since.

You could be right but I’m sure it was something LJ brought in and not Cotts? 

[Simon79]

I think that the use of a drone is a great idea. The quality of the videos can be brilliant & maybe hits home more than some sort of computer animation. I've said for many seasons that City have been very poor off the ball with regards movement. Certain players have been good at it in recent history, your Nobles, Trundles, Tomlins type if you like. But didn't particularly work hard out of possession. Where as this group of players work as hard off the ball as when they have it, for me that is the key. We also have players all over the park that can handle the ball. Epitomised by Bobby Reid, always a player that was able to find space & want the ball. But people are starting to notice how hard he works out of possession. I'm sure in someways the drones have made an impression on the players, it's probably something a youthful group would take to. A great innovative idea imo. COYR 

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

Matty Taylor helped this massively on Tuesday, coming short to offer a simple pass then (as with Reid) he's not afraid to turn and run at them moving possession further up the pitch

[ZiderEyed]

10 minutes ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

Matty Taylor helped this massively on Tuesday, coming short to offer a simple pass then (as with Reid) he's not afraid to turn and run at them moving possession further up the pitch

What I noticed most about MT was how good he was at predicting where the ball will go, proper striker/poachers brain on him. Got in to great positions to win flick ons, lovely movement. Good asset to have mind.

[Tipps69]

The use of drones gives a different angle / perspective for the players to be able to watch things back & the coaches a different perspective on their coaching & helps to get their ideas across better.

Now it could just be me but before we used the drones, did we ever record / use cameras for training purposes? I know that back when I did my badges that training was never or very rarely recorded & if it was it wasn't available for instant replay.

Back in the summer it was mentioned that LJ wanted a big screen installed outside up at Failand so that they could watch back training in realtime without having to wait a couple of hours before going into the 'classroom' to watch something back that happened hours before & it was then more or less impossible to reinact as players would of forgotten the scenarios & positions that they were in & that they actually needed to be in. Now with the drones being able to show instant replays & the outside screen (assuming LJ got his way), the coaches & players are able to understand what each other are expecting etc.

Technology has progressed massively In a fairly short space of time & it's needed a young forward thinking manager / coach to move the club into the 21st century & to embrace what is available to them. And by bringing in players & coaches willing to work with this technology, it means that players & coaches now have a new way of learning & teaching & this stops both from getting bored with the monotony of doing the same things day in & day out. No more spending hours in the 'classroom' going over & over tactics, it can be done in short bursts out on the pitch (sideline) & this allows the players to spend more time on the pitch working with the ball, which is what every footballer wants to be doing, rather than being bored out of their brains in the 'classroom'

[TheCulturalBomb]

8 hours ago, Robert the bruce said:

SOD was a drone at training...

Just the mention of that bloke makes my blood boil  

[CheddarReds]

Short answer - you're right, I think the drones are helping, reason being so much of how we are playing can difficult to coach (in comparison to a sit back and counter attack type approach).

A lot of how we set up in possession, for me, is to try and allow us to play diagonally. This might sound silly, because I'm sure the majority of teams try and do this, as it's the most dangerous way to advance up the pitch, but we're doing it very well.

Going through the Derby highlights there's a few examples.

1:44 Woodrow shot. Specificallly are clip starts at 1:20 ish but the bit that proves my point is the build up to the shoot. Leko dribbles Diagonally before playing two diagonal passes with Reid. Notice how Reid moves the opposite direction from Huddlestone to create room to recieve the second pass, but also notice how difficult it is from Derby to pick him and Woodrow up. By passing and dribbling diagonally you cause the opposition defence to reorganise themselves both laterally and vertically causing them more problems. For more on reid's movement on the blind side of the defender: http://spielverlagerung.com/2016/09/05/tactical-theory-the-offensive-and-defensive-potential-of-the-blind-side/

Highlight straight after Woodrow we overloaded that half of the pitch meaning we had more options but also allowing us to press hard if we lost the ball. In this example, the result is that their defence gets sucked over and allows Bailey Wright time to cross.But sticking with the theme of diagonal play, notice how Paterson recieves the ball in 'the half space' which makes him difficult to pick up. Usually in this zone you have a lot of diagonal options, however on this occasion this wasn't the case aqnd he made the right decision going laterally to Bailey Wright.

A better example is Reid at 4:05. When he recieves the ball in that space he has the option of Woodrow (or Bryan, more often) if he were to overlap, a pass back to a central midfielder or the inswinging cross that's more dangerous than an outswinger (which is where we score later on with a Bryan cross and Woodrow header), all because within that area you have so many options, many of which are diagonal.

The clip after, we were fighting to retain possession in the middle third but because we managed to play a diagonal pass, which made the whole opposition defence reorganise deeper, we gained more territory and eventually Pack got a shot off.

We've moved the ball diagonally to good effect throughout the season and playing with two full backs that stay wide, and two wide men (Paterson especially is very good at it) who like to come into the half spaces allow for us to play very good football that's hard to defend. It's also hard to coach as I said, so Johnson and the staff must take credit, and I'm guessing the drone gets a birds eye view to help us visualise the angles we can make.

Hopefully my point makes sense but if not I've learnt a bit from these:

http://spielverlagerung.com/2015/08/05/bayern-ac-milan-30-douglas-costa-arturo-vidal-and-diagonality/

http://spielverlagerung.com/2017/06/27/manchester-city-positional-play-analysis/

[westred1]

On 9/22/2017 at 18:37, Edge1981 said:

You could be right but I’m sure it was something LJ brought in and not Cotts? 

Trust me, it was Cotts. 

[Simon79]

On 23/09/2017 at 13:03, CheddarReds said:

Short answer - you're right, I think the drones are helping, reason being so much of how we are playing can difficult to coach (in comparison to a sit back and counter attack type approach).

A lot of how we set up in possession, for me, is to try and allow us to play diagonally. This might sound silly, because I'm sure the majority of teams try and do this, as it's the most dangerous way to advance up the pitch, but we're doing it very well.

Going through the Derby highlights there's a few examples.

1:44 Woodrow shot. Specificallly are clip starts at 1:20 ish but the bit that proves my point is the build up to the shoot. Leko dribbles Diagonally before playing two diagonal passes with Reid. Notice how Reid moves the opposite direction from Huddlestone to create room to recieve the second pass, but also notice how difficult it is from Derby to pick him and Woodrow up. By passing and dribbling diagonally you cause the opposition defence to reorganise themselves both laterally and vertically causing them more problems. For more on reid's movement on the blind side of the defender: http://spielverlagerung.com/2016/09/05/tactical-theory-the-offensive-and-defensive-potential-of-the-blind-side/

Highlight straight after Woodrow we overloaded that half of the pitch meaning we had more options but also allowing us to press hard if we lost the ball. In this example, the result is that their defence gets sucked over and allows Bailey Wright time to cross.But sticking with the theme of diagonal play, notice how Paterson recieves the ball in 'the half space' which makes him difficult to pick up. Usually in this zone you have a lot of diagonal options, however on this occasion this wasn't the case aqnd he made the right decision going laterally to Bailey Wright.

A better example is Reid at 4:05. When he recieves the ball in that space he has the option of Woodrow (or Bryan, more often) if he were to overlap, a pass back to a central midfielder or the inswinging cross that's more dangerous than an outswinger (which is where we score later on with a Bryan cross and Woodrow header), all because within that area you have so many options, many of which are diagonal.

The clip after, we were fighting to retain possession in the middle third but because we managed to play a diagonal pass, which made the whole opposition defence reorganise deeper, we gained more territory and eventually Pack got a shot off.

We've moved the ball diagonally to good effect throughout the season and playing with two full backs that stay wide, and two wide men (Paterson especially is very good at it) who like to come into the half spaces allow for us to play very good football that's hard to defend. It's also hard to coach as I said, so Johnson and the staff must take credit, and I'm guessing the drone gets a birds eye view to help us visualise the angles we can make.

Hopefully my point makes sense but if not I've learnt a bit from these:

http://spielverlagerung.com/2015/08/05/bayern-ac-milan-30-douglas-costa-arturo-vidal-and-diagonality/

http://spielverlagerung.com/2017/06/27/manchester-city-positional-play-analysis/

Good post. But don't you mean ' diag'? COYR