Life span of a first team coach

[Lrrr]

7 hours ago, Londoner said:

Next season will be crunch of lj. No playoffs no future for him.

So if we finish 7th next season he has no future? Get real, he'd need to drop us down to being below 15th for a season or two for his job to be in danger. We could finish out of the play offs and be in the top 10 and he'd be doing a good job all things considered if we don't increase our wage bill comparably to other teams. Stability at the higher end of the most competitive division in Europe would be good for the club. Not fans getting irritated about finishing in the top 10. 

[Lrrr]

6 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

It hasn’t done Chelsea much harm, having a Manager revolving door.

Helps when each manager gets around £150m to spend, Conte complaining this season about lack of backing having spent around £150m this season, bad choice of investment on his part more like it. 

[windmillhillred]

45 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Yes. I don't want another three month run of abject failure. Two seasons are enough. 

If another small budget championship team was 7th, following an incredible cup run, I reckon most people on here wpuld be incredulous that some fans were suggesting the manager should be sacked. Who would you replace him with?

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, windmillhillred said:

If another small budget championship team was 7th, following an incredible cup run, I reckon most people on here wpuld be incredulous that some fans were suggesting the manager should be sacked. Who would you replace him with?

I'd say a midtable type budget more like, but the point still stands in various ways.

[windmillhillred]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'd say a midtable budget more like, but the point still stands in various ways.

Yes good point.

[Davefevs]

47 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'd say a midtable type budget more like, but the point still stands in various ways.

17th/18th highest budget in the Champ I believe.  Or 6th/7th lowest if you like

How much money we made this season from the cup run and improved gates, other revenue I don’t know, but it might move us towards mid table.

Off the top of my head, I thinks pretty safe to think that the following clubs have higher budgets;

Wolves

Cardiff

Villa

Fulham

Derby

Boro

Sheffield Wednesday 

Norwich

Leeds

Hull

Nottm Forest

QPR

Birmingham

Sunderland

Questionable: Reading, 

Thats 14/15 we’re behind.

[pillred]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

17th/18th highest budget in the Champ I believe.  Or 6th/7th lowest if you like

How much money we made this season from the cup run and improved gates, other revenue I don’t know, but it might move us towards mid table.

Off the top of my head, I thinks pretty safe to think that the following clubs have higher budgets;

Wolves

Cardiff

Villa

Fulham

Derby

Boro

Sheffield Wednesday 

Norwich

Leeds

Hull

Nottm Forest

QPR

Birmingham

Sunderland

Questionable: Reading, 

Thats 14/15 we’re behind.

I can understand why a lot on your list have higher budgets than us but am struggling to think why Birmingham qpr reading or Cardiff would have are they sticking to ffp I doubt it.

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

17th/18th highest budget in the Champ I believe.  Or 6th/7th lowest if you like

How much money we made this season from the cup run and improved gates, other revenue I don’t know, but it might move us towards mid table.

Off the top of my head, I thinks pretty safe to think that the following clubs have higher budgets;

Wolves

Cardiff

Villa

Fulham

Derby

Boro

Sheffield Wednesday 

Norwich

Leeds

Hull

Nottm Forest

QPR

Birmingham

Sunderland

Questionable: Reading, 

Thats 14/15 we’re behind.

Thanks.

I always had, maybe last season, had our table down as a midtable type budget. Maybe I'm mixing budget and Wage bill- wage bill I always thought was, or might be, somewhere in the middle.

Qpr, Birmingham and Forest higher than us? We get bigger gates than QPR and Birmingham, and Forest had some FFP restrictions not that long ago if I recall so I'm not certain.

[Lrrr]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thanks.

I always had, maybe last season, had our table down as a midtable type budget. Maybe I'm mixing budget and Wage bill- wage bill I always thought was, or might be, somewhere in the middle.

Qpr, Birmingham and Forest higher than us? We get bigger gates than QPR and Birmingham, and Forest had some FFP restrictions not that long ago if I recall so I'm not certain.

 

7 minutes ago, pillred said:

I can understand why a lot on your list have higher budgets than us but am struggling to think why Birmingham qpr reading or Cardiff would have are they sticking to ffp I doubt it.

Just quoting both of you as you both put Brum, you did pay attention to their summer deals and how many players Harry brought in right? Was at least 14 in the summer and they're rumoured to be paying Jota £40,000 a week for context to our budget 

[Bryans Left Peg]

9 hours ago, Londoner said:

Next season will be crunch of lj. No playoffs no future for him.

I just don't have the words to express how much I like this post!

 

Haha, I typed in a load of z's to express how boring your post is and it defaulted to that. Well played OTIB. 

[pillred]

33 minutes ago, hodge said:

 

Just quoting both of you as you both put Brum, you did pay attention to their summer deals and how many players Harry brought in right? Was at least 14 in the summer and they're rumoured to be paying Jota £40,000 a week for context to our budget 

yes but how are they spending so ,we don't I assumed to stay within ffp, what I can't understand is if they can get away with it, why not us.

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, pillred said:

I can understand why a lot on your list have higher budgets than us but am struggling to think why Birmingham qpr reading or Cardiff would have are they sticking to ffp I doubt it.

I think that’s the crux. They must be pushing FFP to its limits or gone over. All ex-Prem (not all recent enough to have parachute money) and with its raised expectations and wage bills and not necessarily backed up by income. 

I think Brighton lost £39m last year. I’ll check it out later   

[bcfcshorey]

I don't know why I thought this was a thread about the Man City team bus/coach getting mobbed on the way into Anfield....

[cidered abroad]

Jack Charlton always said four seasons max. 

First to identify the problems, second to sort, recruit and build, third for success and fourth as the one to realise one should get out before the slide. 

[Rich]

Budgets aren't everything but, they help sometimes, depends how they're used. You could have a large squad full of mediocre players, as we have on many occasions, or you can have a smaller squad of better players (as under Cotts} and topped up with a couple of all rounders. You could have a squad of quality players but, still can't play more than eleven at any one time. So a small good squad could compete with a large good squad. Keeping a large squad happy is problematic in itself as well. Obviously other factors come into it as well, such as injuries

I hate to say this but, we had quite a large budget and a large squad in 1989/90 compared to many competitors. A team with a much smaller budget beat us (by hook and by crook) to become champions. Rag bag Rovers they were known as, spit, cough, retch and spit again. 

It would appear to me that, the more players we have available, the more rotation and lack of continuity we have in the team.

[Davefevs]

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think that’s the crux. They must be pushing FFP to its limits or gone over. All ex-Prem (not all recent enough to have parachute money) and with its raised expectations and wage bills and not necessarily backed up by income. 

I think Brighton lost £39m last year. I’ll check it out later   

Re Birmingham - Staff Budgets last Financial year £22.1m 

Re Reading - £27m

Re City - £17.8m

Birmingham’s 24.1% higher ‘budget’ than us last season.  Reading 52%.  Staggering isn’t it.

Who knows what this season will bring, but Brum brought in 14 players in the summer!  It would suggest to me that they have a significantly bigger budget than us.

Reading had £20m in tv and media.....we had £241k.  That £20m was the major difference in reversing a £15m loss the season before and a £4m profit last season.

So, I think just looking at two clubs who we might think have the same or even smaller budgets than us and playing with 25%-50% bigger budgets than us.

Gives you all some context as to where we are....little fish in a big pond!

a couple of others:

Derby - £31m for 15/16 season....not published 16/17 yet.

Sheffield Utd - £10m, Millwall £9.3m but both in League One.

Preston - £13m

 

 

[Davefevs]

Aston Villa last season.  Turnover £71m.....5 times ours, although that included £48m in Broadcasting (part of that will be parachute money).  Their wage budget is only £8.4m, which suggests that they are not accounting for it in the same way as other clubs mentioned above.

Norwich City (plc)who got relegated with Villa.  Turnover £75m....staff costs £55m.  Must mean Villa are accounting differently!!

Cardiff "amazing what Warnock has achieved on a tiny budget" City.  The myth destroyed.  Staff budget £29m....63% higher than ours.  £20m of their £27m revenue from tv / broadcasting (parachute - Guessing that’s paid out at the end of the season).  They made a £5m profit on players, but still racked up an £18m loss.

What do posters think when they start to see these numbers compared to ours?

[Davefevs]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Re Birmingham - Staff Budgets last Financial year £22.1m 

Re Reading - £27m

Re City - £17.8m

Birmingham’s 24.1% higher ‘budget’ than us last season.  Reading 52%.  Staggering isn’t it.

Who knows what this season will bring, but Brum brought in 14 players in the summer!  It would suggest to me that they have a significantly bigger budget than us.

Reading had £20m in tv and media.....we had £241k.  That £20m was the major difference in reversing a £15m loss the season before and a £4m profit last season.

So, I think just looking at two clubs who we might think have the same or even smaller budgets than us and playing with 25%-50% bigger budgets than us.

Gives you all some context as to where we are....little fish in a big pond!

a couple of others:

Derby - £31m for 15/16 season....not published 16/17 yet.

Sheffield Utd - £10m, Millwall £9.3m but both in League One.

Preston - £13m

 

 

Correction, about £6.5m for us.  Makes more sense

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Aston Villa last season.  Turnover £71m.....5 times ours, although that included £48m in Broadcasting (part of that will be parachute money).  Their wage budget is only £8.4m, which suggests that they are not accounting for it in the same way as other clubs mentioned above.

Norwich City (plc)who got relegated with Villa.  Turnover £75m....staff costs £55m.  Must mean Villa are accounting differently!!

Cardiff "amazing what Warnock has achieved on a tiny budget" City.  The myth destroyed.  Staff budget £29m....63% higher than ours.  £20m of their £27m revenue from tv / broadcasting (parachute - Guessing that’s paid out at the end of the season).  They made a £5m profit on players, but still racked up an £18m loss.

What do posters think when they start to see these numbers compared to ours?

I think if Villa stay down, there's FFP issues on the horizon for them! Which can only help us...

However, your wider point- yeah in that context we are doing rather well with what we have! Though so too are Sheff Utd, Millwall, Preston!

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think if Villa stay down, there's FFP issues on the horizon for them! Which can only help us...

You are right.  Shit or bust next season otherwise.  That’s why Norwich started to cut their cloth at Xmas, selling Prichard.  Maddison will go in the summer.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

You are right.  Shit or bust next season otherwise.  That’s why Norwich started to cut their cloth at Xmas, selling Prichard.  Maddison will go in the summer.

Interesting.

Could it even be a case of if they don't go up this season trouble for Villa? Maybe not fully trouble but some problems at least.

I read they couldn't even afford to commit to renewal of contracts next year, dunno if it's true though.

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You are right.  Shit or bust next season otherwise.  That’s why Norwich started to cut their cloth at Xmas, selling Prichard.  Maddison will go in the summer.

Help them out by taking Hogan off their hands

Think he’d be a good fit for us

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Interesting.

Could it even be a case of if they don't go up this season trouble for Villa? Maybe not fully trouble but some problems at least.

I read they couldn't even afford to commit to renewal of contracts next year, dunno if it's true though.

Next season they get their final parachute payment....but you can fully expect them to have already used part / all of that in their budgeting of contracts since getting relegated.  

[Jack Dawe]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Aston Villa last season.  Turnover £71m.....5 times ours, although that included £48m in Broadcasting (part of that will be parachute money).  Their wage budget is only £8.4m, which suggests that they are not accounting for it in the same way as other clubs mentioned above.

Norwich City (plc)who got relegated with Villa.  Turnover £75m....staff costs £55m.  Must mean Villa are accounting differently!!

Cardiff "amazing what Warnock has achieved on a tiny budget" City.  The myth destroyed.  Staff budget £29m....63% higher than ours.  £20m of their £27m revenue from tv / broadcasting (parachute - Guessing that’s paid out at the end of the season).  They made a £5m profit on players, but still racked up an £18m loss.

What do posters think when they start to see these numbers compared to ours?

I think the opportunity to play one of those in a one-off final for promotion is worth going for, because the pressure on Villa, or Cardiff, would be immense. And we know what pressure can do to people, funny things can  happen. And for us, it would be a free-ish hit. Nothing - well, nothing like - as much to lose. Go out and enjoy it, lads. It's got to be worth a shot?

Despite Villa's enormous turnover compared to ours, they are only a couple of wins and draws better than us this season and if we'd had less cup football then what would the gap be?

In a one-off final, Villa or Cardiff can only field eleven players at any one time, same as us. Worth getting involved in, I'd say. 

[Davefevs]

I agree....someone tell the players! 

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Aston Villa last season.  Turnover £71m.....5 times ours, although that included £48m in Broadcasting (part of that will be parachute money).  Their wage budget is only £8.4m, which suggests that they are not accounting for it in the same way as other clubs mentioned above.

Norwich City (plc)who got relegated with Villa.  Turnover £75m....staff costs £55m.  Must mean Villa are accounting differently!!

Cardiff "amazing what Warnock has achieved on a tiny budget" City.  The myth destroyed.  Staff budget £29m....63% higher than ours.  £20m of their £27m revenue from tv / broadcasting (parachute - Guessing that’s paid out at the end of the season).  They made a £5m profit on players, but still racked up an £18m loss.

What do posters think when they start to see these numbers compared to ours?

The financial figures do clearly highlight the difference between us and many of our competitors in this league. Thus, from a financial point of view, we are competing very well with them. Clubs like Burnley, Bournemouth, Huddersfield and even the WBA's, Wigan, Palace, Hull, Bolton have managed to get promotion from this league and stay in the Prem for differing lengths of time.

The frustrating thing from our point of view, is that apart from 1976 to 1980, we have never even made it up there even if we did a "Derby County" and came back down relegated before Christmas. Why does this seem to be a step too far for BCFC?

And the even more hurtful thing this season, is that we have proved that we can compete with the top clubs in the Championship until Christmas even witha smaller wage bill than many, to put four Premier clubs to the sword in the EFL and give Man City a very decent contest in a two legged semi final.

Only to now be suffering another annual dose of "Johnson Blight" with only fifteen points out of the last forty eight. 15 out of 48!

We can get influenza, shingles and pneumonia vaccines so why isn't there an antidote against this repetitive winter disease?

[JamesBCFC]

On 04/04/2018 at 15:44, Maesknoll Red said:

It hasn’t done Chelsea much harm, having a Manager revolving door.

Of course, they were aided by having a totally open chequebook, such clubs can hardly be looked at as a typical example of how things go.

[BS4 on Tour...]

Well the Man City one took a right battering driving to Anfield so not that long I’d guess!

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 05/04/2018 at 00:37, hodge said:

 

Just quoting both of you as you both put Brum, you did pay attention to their summer deals and how many players Harry brought in right? Was at least 14 in the summer and they're rumoured to be paying Jota £40,000 a week for context to our budget 

Harry only signed 8 players permanently last summer - of those, 3 were free transfers and only 2 cost over £3m...

[JamesBCFC]

29 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Harry only signed 8 players permanently last summer - of those, 3 were free transfers and only 2 cost over £3m...

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/birmingham-city/transfers/verein/337/plus/0?saison_id=2017&pos=&detailpos=&w_s=s

9 permanent signings, a spend of over £15m plus whatever Vassell cost- rumoured price when we were linked was around £1.5m

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bristol-city/transfers/verein/698/plus/0?saison_id=2017&pos=&detailpos=&w_s=s

Same transfer window, our spend was over £4m less before taking Vassell into account.