Major Isewater Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Is there an optimum time to change a coach ? These men devote so much of their lives to their jobs , nearly 24/7 how do they keep themselves fresh and on top of the task in hand ? They can't ease up because the pressure is so high . Do certain managers stay too long ? Mick McCarthy and Wenger spring to mind . Clubs plan for the future for playing staff ? Do they also plan for coaches ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midlands Robin Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 I guess it all depends on the success being achieved by that coach / manager. Who at City for example, would have questioned Alan Dicks being moved on after 10 years? A couple of years after that however?? Football always has been results driven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashton_fan Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 There are plenty of examples of success where managers have been kept for a long time, eg Alex Ferguson at Man U, Dyche at Burnley and Eddie Howe at Bournemouth. We tried chopping and changing and it just messed up the squad and got us relegated so managerial change should be a last resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanker Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Steve Coppell didn’t stay long enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 The time to change is when the ambition of the club exceeds the capabilities or perceived capabilities of the man in the hot seat. Of course that assumes that the ambition is realistic given the various inputs (ie no good sacking the Swansea manager for failing to get into the Champions League. A good example is Stoke learning the hard way that life under Pulis was about as good as it was likely to get but they insisted they could and should do better and will pay the price) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bs4Red Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: The time to change is when the ambition of the club exceeds the capabilities or perceived capabilities of the man in the hot seat. Of course that assumes that the ambition is realistic given the various inputs (ie no good sacking the Swansea manager for failing to get into the Champions League. A good example is Stoke learning the hard way that life under Pulis was about as good as it was likely to get but they insisted they could and should do better and will pay the price) Couldn’t agree more. So many cases of clubs thinking the grass is greener. Southampton another big example of chopping in changing in recent seasons which has hindered all the hard work they’ve done to establish themselves. Arsenal is a big one that clearly the owners etc are happy with their position of being a European club but never challenging and generating good profit. With City I believe our fans expectations this season I higher than our owners. I think he’d be delighted with mid table as would many fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 59 minutes ago, Bs4Red said: Couldn’t agree more. So many cases of clubs thinking the grass is greener. Southampton another big example of chopping in changing in recent seasons which has hindered all the hard work they’ve done to establish themselves. Arsenal is a big one that clearly the owners etc are happy with their position of being a European club but never challenging and generating good profit. With City I believe our fans expectations this season I higher than our owners. I think he’d be delighted with mid table as would many fans I think this is one of the big issues this season. After last season's losing run and then "escape" at the end of the season, I think most fans would have been delighted to see improvement this season and a mid table/slightly above mid table finish. Had our wins and losses been spread evenly though the season and we were challenging for a play off place ( as we are, although I use challenging very loosely!) then I think most fans would have been absolutely delighted. The fact the the first half of the season was so unexpectedly outstanding - and it was - expectations were raised to fever pitched levels, and in today's atmosphere of media hyperbole so many felt that we were nailed on for promotion, or that "all" the club had to do was go out and spend a few million on players to secure the ultimate prize. Oh that is was that easy. As has been the case so often recently, we cannot manage consistency, so instead we lurch from sublime to ridiculous. As a result, some/many fans see a sublime period as indicative of us going on to great things, and the ridiculous as meaning catastrophe, implosion and relegation. From where we were before Christmas, the last 3 months have been very disappointing, and although I doubted that we could sustain performance and results to secure promotion, thought we would at least stay well in the play off places until the end of the season. Im just hoping that we pull ourselves together from now until the end of the season so that, even if we miss out on the play off places we go into the summer and next season with some momentum and can build again. I'm a pessimistic optimist - or is it an optimistic pessimist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Bs4Red said: Couldn’t agree more. So many cases of clubs thinking the grass is greener. Southampton another big example of chopping in changing in recent seasons which has hindered all the hard work they’ve done to establish themselves. Arsenal is a big one that clearly the owners etc are happy with their position of being a European club but never challenging and generating good profit. With City I believe our fans expectations this season I higher than our owners. I think he’d be delighted with mid table as would many fans I think your spot on about SL, he was very happy about the cup run, and won't be overly disappointed about our current league position, and having sold a decent number of STs I just hope he loosens the purse strings a little more, we can still buy young players, just hopefully with a bit more pedigree and quality. He can start by buying Tammy Abraham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londoner Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Next season will be crunch of lj. No playoffs no future for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcofisher Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, Londoner said: Next season will be crunch of lj. No playoffs no future for him. According to whom may I ask? Are you SL? If all our best players are sold and we buy in some good young players in the mould of Brownhill and O'Dowda I wouldn't be expecting playoffs straight away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 90 Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 You either die a hero, or live long enough to become the villain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted April 4, 2018 Admin Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 It hasn’t done Chelsea much harm, having a Manager revolving door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeyed Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said: It hasn’t done Chelsea much harm, having a Manager revolving door. I think it's how you measure success. 5th place and 28 points behind the leaders isn't looking too great for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted April 4, 2018 Admin Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Buckeyed said: I think it's how you measure success. 5th place and 28 points behind the leaders isn't looking too great for them. This season has been an exception by any standards, Man City running away with it. I can't think of any of our fans who wouldn't like a record like Chelsea's over the last 18 years, 11 Managers and 15 trophies - it obviously works for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdliketoRogerMoore Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Ask peter carol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 I once read that on average, a manager is most successful in the first two years of his tenure. Obviously that's with a recognised fully qualified experienced manager. Not someone who's been in the professional football world all their working lives and then, learning their trade for the past four years as a rooky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abraham Romanovich Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 What I keep hearing is we are a work in progress /all about long term planning. LJ himself has said judge me after 3 transfer windows - well he's had them now and in the long term we are all dead. I think this season we have been really unlucky with injuries but this excuse has to be mitigated with his summer recruitment So in my opinion the question is - Next season what is acceptable I would say anything less than a play off challenge would constitute failure- if this is not the case do we stick or twist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyredredrobin Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 With what has been going on since Christmas it is clear that Lee needs a little help in the coaching department and with his decision making. However, with 6 games left, I guess it is too late now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Zod Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said: What I keep hearing is we are a work in progress /all about long term planning. LJ himself has said judge me after 3 transfer windows - well he's had them now and in the long term we are all dead. I think this season we have been really unlucky with injuries but this excuse has to be mitigated with his summer recruitment So in my opinion the question is - Next season what is acceptable I would say anything less than a play off challenge would constitute failure- if this is not the case do we stick or twist I’d be surprised if we make the playoffs next year as this year is/was our chance. Too many things are out of our control to judge our success next season solely on a playoff place. Personally an acceptable season for me will be LJ fathoming out a way of playing away from home, we have a plan B that is more than simply relying on hoofing the ball to a big target man and a long throw into the box, we play winning entertaining football at home more often than not, we see only an average bad run of form not the usual season/confidence destroyer and a few of the many signings for the future actually come good so that I see the ‘plan’ has merit. Finally if we start next season the way we look like ending this one, I hope the board show some and properly consider if LJ is right for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 5 hours ago, Major Isewater said: Is there an optimum time to change a coach ? These men devote so much of their lives to their jobs , nearly 24/7 how do they keep themselves fresh and on top of the task in hand ? They can't ease up because the pressure is so high . Do certain managers stay too long ? Mick McCarthy and Wenger spring to mind . Clubs plan for the future for playing staff ? Do they also plan for coaches ? Usually around 200,000 miles or when the engine needs replacing. Seriously, you can replace a head coach at any time if it's not performing up to standard. Ours is running on empty at the moment and should be replaced by the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 6 hours ago, Major Isewater said: Is there an optimum time to change a coach ? These men devote so much of their lives to their jobs , nearly 24/7 how do they keep themselves fresh and on top of the task in hand ? They can't ease up because the pressure is so high . Do certain managers stay too long ? Mick McCarthy and Wenger spring to mind . Clubs plan for the future for playing staff ? Do they also plan for coaches ? Major I can’t have you worrying about such things any longer The Coach Used by Peter Carol for First Team Travel is a ‘Mercedes Tourismo K’ With average annual mileage the lifespan of this particular model is 6 working years Pleae return to your glass of red with mind settled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted April 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Major I can’t have you worrying about such things any longer The Coach Used by Peter Carol for First Team Travel is a ‘Mercedes Tourismo K’ With average annual mileage the lifespan of this particular model is 6 working years Pleae return to your glass of red with mind settled One of my mottos is ' resist the usual ' but you weren't to know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 1 hour ago, cidered abroad said: Usually around 200,000 miles or when the engine needs replacing. Seriously, you can replace a head coach at any time if it's not performing up to standard. Ours is running on empty at the moment and should be replaced by the summer. It will be refueled by the owner, as it has been throughout ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin_unreliant Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 5 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said: It hasn’t done Chelsea much harm, having a Manager revolving door. Or Watford. You need to be good at picking them though which SL hasn't been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 5 hours ago, Londoner said: Next season will be crunch of lj. No playoffs no future for him. I am with you on this actually. Not so much no playoffs no future but if we don’t have a successful consistent season I will be a bit disappointed. Guess it depends on our summer recruitment and who goes. Though the sentiment is still the same. We can’t go on another poor run of form like this. 3 or 4 or 5 game run with some bad results happen but there can’t be another 12-15 game stretch of poor results like LJ’s last few years. I am almost more livid this season than last. Last season we were even more inexperienced and young. We were probably justifiably bad. This season we had a very competent squad and to go since Christmas with bottom 6 form is unacceptable. The lack of motivation and action from LJ is maddening in times of need. He has earned another season because it is an improvement but for me we need to be consistently good. Being erratic will never see us promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 I've agreed with most of what you said Joe, and but to give him another season to mess up at least 33% of the time, is definitely not warranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 16 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: I've agreed with most of what you said Joe, and but to give him another season to mess up at least 33% of the time, is definitely not warranted. Blimey - Would you replace him before next season Cidered ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinbridge Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 I saw the title and thought this was a thread about the Man City bus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Blimey - Would you replace him before next season Cidered ? Yes. I don't want another three month run of abject failure. Two seasons are enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: Yes. I don't want another three month run of abject failure. Two seasons are enough. Understand that but I personally would want to understand what’s going wrong and be giving him another season to see how we go , with the caveat that if we started as poor as we are right now (I would hope and think we won’t) and certainly if we slid into another poor trough I’d be considering my options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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