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Sheffield Wednesday - Embargo - FFP

Davefevs

By Davefevs
in Football Chat

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Monkeh

Monkeh

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

These FFP margins appear to be very tight, do we think the money SL dropped the other week in new shares was to keep us compliant or for some other reason?

we've lost around 15 million in the last 2 seasons we should be fine

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Southport Red

Southport Red

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

These FFP margins appear to be very tight, do we think the money SL dropped the other week in new shares was to keep us compliant or for some other reason?

Not an expert in FFP or Football finance, but I suspect the former. My guess is we thought we were probs OK but the £15M was a contingency to keep us kosher in case we wanted to do something at the end of the transfer window. 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted

Good- it shows the system works- to a point.

The next step is hopefully points deductions for teams, but it seems to be starting to work a bit.

My personal view is we're fine FFP wise. My understanding of FFP is you can lose £13m per season (without money invested it's £5m per season so the shortfall is £8m and this can be injected by owners as equity or whatever).

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted

Overall I think the system is fine on paper but they need a sliding scale clearly laid out and defined to avoid legal challenges.

  • 1-1.99% exceeding of the limit over 3 years- 1 point deduction.
  • 9-9.99% exceeding of the limit over the 3 years- 9 point deduction.

Sliding scale continuing all the way up from 1% all the way to a maximum of a 100 point deduction.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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We are absolutely fine from an FFP perspective.  

This is how I see it.  No idea if SL/MA/LJ and Gavin Marshall work this way.

I think LJ has an initial budget that allows him to make a loss of between £10-13m per season (£13m the upper limit of the average of 3 years FFP, whaddayouknow).  However, I think he’s expected to recoup that when we get offers in excess of valuation.  That puts him in credit, and therefore allows him some ‘spend’ Where appropriate.

So far this summer he has got a large credit with SL, that allows him to replace when needed.

I’m sure it’s not as simple as this.

The £3.5m loss last year, was in effect a £13m operating loss offset by £9m(ish) profit on transfers (amortised numbers).

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View from the Dolman

View from the Dolman

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

There's one thing I don't quite get though.

On Companies House there seems to be 'Bristol City Holdings Limited' and 'Bristol City Football Club Limited'.

Which one is the right one? I've always assumed the second but Kieran Maguire and Swiss Ramble have used the first. :dunno:

Bristol City Holdings Ltd is the group which owns Bristol City Football Club Ltd and Ashton Gate Ltd (and a couple of other dormant companies).

The football club which is a member of the EFL (and I therefore assume is subject to FFP scrutiny) is Bristol City Football Club Ltd.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

There's one thing I don't quite get though.

On Companies House there seems to be 'Bristol City Holdings Limited' and 'Bristol City Football Club Limited'.

Which one is the right one? I've always assumed the second but Kieran Maguire and Swiss Ramble have used the first. :dunno:

I think the Holding Company Account probably include a few bits and pieces that are aggregated from the other companies (at arms length) that build the overall Bristol City financial position for FFP.

5 minutes ago, city123456 said:

Does this pave the way for a deadline day move for Bannan, a player LJ said himself he would like to sign if he could sign any player from the Championship ?

May be available cheaper due to their embargo / financial position....

1 minute ago, Robert the bruce said:

For me this is the player we are missing..

Would love him here,so no chance!

....but could you see him in a midfield 2?  I can’t.  Maybe LJ can or would change to a 433 to accommodate him.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

Bristol City Holdings Ltd is the group which owns Bristol City Football Club Ltd and Ashton Gate Ltd (and a couple of other dormant companies).

The football club which is a member of the EFL (and I therefore assume is subject to FFP scrutiny) is Bristol City Football Club Ltd.

Thanks. That makes sense.

Assuming Bristol City Holdings Ltd is something like our accounts + assorted others..?

Will look again at KM and SR and breakdown of our FFP but still think they used the holdings rather than FC accounts.

@Davefevs I think based oon 'Holdings' we lost 6.4m or thereabouts...however deductions like youth, community etc (for FFP purposes) took it down to 0.4m. According to Kieran Maguire anyway.

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city123456

city123456

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

May be available cheaper due to their embargo / financial position....

He's in his final year of contract, Sheff Weds already said they can't offer him a new deal on his current terms and he would have to take a big drop in pay to get a new contract. He has signalled his intent to stay, but wont sign the new deal they have put on the table. 

I say chuck £5m at them and test their metal, I doubt they would be able to turn it down, and if you offered him a 4 year deal on say 75% of the wages he's currently on and offer him captaincy, I suspect he'll take it. 

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Major Isewater

Major Isewater

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, city123456 said:

He's in his final year of contract, Sheff Weds already said they can't offer him a new deal on his current terms and he would have to take a big drop in pay to get a new contract. He has signalled his intent to stay, but wont sign the new deal they have put on the table. 

I say chuck £5m at them and test their metal, I doubt they would be able to turn it down, and if you offered him a 4 year deal on say 75% of the wages he's currently on and offer him captaincy, I suspect he'll take it. 

If they sell him they will weaken their squad / first team and not be in a position to replace the player due to the embargo therefore, unless I've got it wrong , they won't entertain the idea . 

:dunno:

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city123456

city123456

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

If they sell him they will weaken their squad / first team and not be in a position to replace the player due to the embargo therefore, unless I've got it wrong , they won't entertain the idea . 

:dunno:

Embargo wont be lifted unless they sell players, plus they are trying to do a deal with ffp according to a few sites, that if they sell some players this week, they will be able to use some of the funds if they make enough sales. They aren't in a position to pay the wages he wants or is on long term and will leave for free in the summer at this rate, I would say there is plenty of reasons to sale. 

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Bristol Rob

Bristol Rob

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, city123456 said:

Embargo wont be lifted unless they sell players, plus they are trying to do a deal with ffp according to a few sites, that if they sell some players this week, they will be able to use some of the funds if they make enough sales. They aren't in a position to pay the wages he wants or is on long term and will leave for free in the summer at this rate, I would say there is plenty of reasons to sale. 

By 'this week' you mean today?

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daored

daored

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, lenred said:
3 hours ago, city123456 said:

Embargo wont be lifted unless they sell players, plus they are trying to do a deal with ffp according to a few sites, that if they sell some players this week, they will be able to use some of the funds if they make enough sales. They aren't in a position to pay the wages he wants or is on long term and will leave for free in the summer at this rate, I would say there is plenty of reasons to sale. 

Completely agree, if they can get money in plus wages off the books, potential for loans 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Cardiff rumoured to be after Forestieri ?

He's a good player, okay he had injuries last year but his returns are pretty good!

What Cardiff seem to be doing is buying strong performers from the Championship- presumably they are thinking they will give it a good go, but ultimately come back down and be in a strong financial position to really go again in 19/20, go back them and then build properly in 20/21 in the PL.

That's their strategy I think.

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