spudski Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 ...if only we could keep them all together and add someone like Tammy upfront. Wishful thinking maybe...but that would be a joy to watch and support. Just need that quality up front to get us over the line imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sticks 1969 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 Saying that on the way back to the car just need a out and out goal scorer BUT they don’t come cheap and like last season not always going to work out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, spudski said: ...if only we could keep them all together and add someone like Tammy upfront. Wishful thinking maybe...but that would be a joy to watch and support. Just need that quality up front to get us over the line imo. 100% - you feel that this is the season we need to do it if we want to keep this squad together. Webster and Kalas will probably be gone if not. I Don’t see too many other departures though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rob k said: 100% - you feel that this is the season we need to do it if we want to keep this squad together. Webster and Kalas will probably be gone if not. I Don’t see too many other departures though If they'll stay...it would be great to keep them all Rob. There is something special here at the moment. If only we could put old heads on young shoulders, for them to see that being sat on a bench at some other club taking a big wage will leave them feeling unfulfilled when they are retired. They all get good wages at this level...so it's only greed. Growing as a set of players, getting on, enjoying playing together and playing well...building an understanding...it doesn't happen often in football. Shame Agents will be turning their heads. I hope the Club have the funds to keep them all happy and together, and to be able to add that needed quality up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey54 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 Wolves paid us huge respect with the side they picked today and they were lucky to hold out in the second half. They are one of the form teams in the Prem at the moment and we pinned them back for most of the half. We were unfortunate that the chances fell in the box to players that aren't your normal goalscorers. We need a fox in the box. A Billy Sharp type striker but there aren't that many around. Were not that far away from being able to compete with the lower reaches of the Premier league. Fingers crossed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 17 minutes ago, spudski said: If they'll stay...it would be great to keep them all Rob. There is something special here at the moment. If only we could put old heads on young shoulders, for them to see that being sat on a bench at some other club taking a big wage will leave them feeling unfulfilled when they are retired. They all get good wages at this level...so it's only greed. Growing as a set of players, getting on, enjoying playing together and playing well...building an understanding...it doesn't happen often in football. Shame Agents will be turning their heads. I hope the Club have the funds to keep them all happy and together, and to be able to add that needed quality up front. Exactly mate - does anyone think Flint is enjoying himself more than he was here? Getting a few quid more but I’m fairly sure he would have already been set up for life. JB and Bobby i get leaving for the premier league but bar Webster and Kalas i don’t see any PL side coming for any of the others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen humphries Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 We’re going to do very well if we hold on to him over the next season or 2 , lads only going to get better. Sorry ment to put this in the brownhill thread , I’m off now , the natch is blurring my mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 27 minutes ago, spudski said: If they'll stay...it would be great to keep them all Rob. There is something special here at the moment. If only we could put old heads on young shoulders, for them to see that being sat on a bench at some other club taking a big wage will leave them feeling unfulfilled when they are retired. They all get good wages at this level...so it's only greed. Growing as a set of players, getting on, enjoying playing together and playing well...building an understanding...it doesn't happen often in football. Shame Agents will be turning their heads. I hope the Club have the funds to keep them all happy and together, and to be able to add that needed quality up front. It won’t just be the agents that will be the problem. Remember the strategy - if we don’t go up and then we get good offers for say Webster, he will be sold. That is the plan. Ironically, getting to the Play Off final and losing could result in more players leaving than finishing 10th! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, ScottishRed said: It won’t just be the agents that will be the problem. Remember the strategy - if we don’t go up and then we get good offers for say Webster, he will be sold. That is the plan. Ironically, getting to the Play Off final and losing could result in more players leaving than finishing 10th! Always the way. That’s why losing play off finalists usually struggle, rather that progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 minute ago, ScottishRed said: It won’t just be the agents that will be the problem. Remember the strategy - if we don’t go up and then we get good offers for say Webster, he will be sold. That is the plan. Ironically, get to even the Play Off final and losing could result in more players leaving than finishing outside of them. That is the flaw in the plan As said before so many things have to come right in one season for us to go up before we sell, we return loanees and start all over again. We know now from experience that if we are doing well up to January window the extra push needed won't be brought in, it will be up to the pre Xmas squad to get us over the line. It is more wishful thinking and blind hope than a reasoned plan. This season may prove to be such a season, but if not we shall start next season without Kalas , DaSilva, Palmer and any we get a good offer for, or who want away, perhaps O'Dowda, Brownhill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, ScottishRed said: It won’t just be the agents that will be the problem. Remember the strategy - if we don’t go up and then we get good offers for say Webster, he will be sold. That is the plan. Ironically, getting to the Play Off final and losing could result in more players leaving than finishing 10th! I'm not sure it's the plan to let our strongest assets go at any price. Only if we can recruit better for the future. Look how so many said Bryan and Flint leaving would be tragic. We've gotten stronger with those two leaving. I agree about losing in the play off's though...I said this on another thread. It often has a negative effect the following seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ivorguy said: That is the flaw in the plan As said before so many things have to come right in one season for us to go up before we sell, we return loanees and start all over again. We know now from experience that if we are doing well up to January window the extra push needed won't be brought in, it will be up to the pre Xmas squad to get us over the line. It is more wishful thinking and blind hope than a reasoned plan. This season may prove to be such a season, but if not we shall start next season without Kalas , DaSilva, Palmer and any we get a good offer for, or who want away, perhaps O'Dowda, Brownhill. Totally agree. If the aim is promotion the plan is utterly flawed. That is not to say in a one - off season, maybe this one, with the right loans, we can’t get there, but that option won’t be there every season - the loans and the replacement signings won’t always work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 minute ago, spudski said: I'm not sure it's the plan to let our strongest assets go at any price. Only if we can recruit better for the future. Look how so many said Bryan and Flint leaving would be tragic. We've gotten stronger with those two leaving. I agree about losing in the play off's though...I said this on another thread. It often has a negative effect the following seasons. Never said at any price - I am sure it would be at a worthwhile profit. Thecplan is based on ‘recruiting better’ and whilst, in some cases we do achieve that it does depend on so many things working out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoons Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 59 minutes ago, spudski said: ...if only we could keep them all together and add someone like Tammy upfront. Wishful thinking maybe...but that would be a joy to watch and support. Just need that quality up front to get us over the line imo. A Tammy or Dwight Gayle in this team would score alot of goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, Rob k said: Exactly mate - does anyone think Flint is enjoying himself more than he was here? Getting a few quid more but I’m fairly sure he would have already been set up for life. JB and Bobby i get leaving for the premier league but bar Webster and Kalas i don’t see any PL side coming for any of the others I believe that Brownhill is one who would fit a mid Premier side. Agree about Webster and Kalas. But don't think O'Dowda is good enough yet as he lacks the ability to leave full backs behind, or is it lack of confidence? Too often he turns back toward our goal than trying to beat an opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, ScottishRed said: Never said at any price - I am sure it would be at a worthwhile profit. Thecplan is based on ‘recruiting better’ and whilst, in some cases we do achieve that it does depend on so many things working out. But isn't that the case with all teams? If a bid comes in high enough...a team will sell. We are doing it within our means. To say it's flawed...it's no more flawed than any other team. It just comes down to good recruitment. You only have to look at the likes of Villa to see our way is no more flawed than any other team. It's just about cutting your cloth, good recruitment and building a team together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, ScottishRed said: Totally agree. If the aim is promotion the plan is utterly flawed. That is not to say in a one - off season, maybe this one, with the right loans, we can’t get there, but that option won’t be there every season - the loans and the replacement signings won’t always work out. Like Adelakun/Watkins/Moore/Eisa/Engval et al! Kelly and Walsh perhaps!... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 Semenyo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, spudski said: But isn't that the case with all teams? If a bid comes in high enough...a team will sell. We are doing it within our means. To say it's flawed...it's no more flawed than any other team. It just comes down to good recruitment. You only have to look at the likes of Villa to see our way is no more flawed than any other team. It's just about cutting your cloth, good recruitment and building a team together. There is certainly room to question our recruitment - no club can get it 100% right but we have made some real howlers. To build a team you need to have the majority of the group around for a period of time - I would not bet on 3/4 of OUR players not moving on this summer if we don’t go up. Players are in the main ambitious and want to play at the highest level possible and I respect that, maybe they would stick around despite offers if they felt the club matched their ambitions. As a player you are not going to feel that if there is a constant turnover of players that are key to the team. We all know that if we stay in this league and offers come in for say Webster and Brownhill the club will sell. Rinse and repeat will not get us to the PL any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, ScottishRed said: There is certainly room to question our recruitment - no club can get it 100% right but we have made some real howlers. To build a team you need to have the majority of the group around for a period of time - I would not bet on 3/4 of OUR players not moving on this summer if we don’t go up. Players are in the main ambitious and want to play at the highest level possible and I respect that, maybe they would stick around despite offers if they felt the club matched their ambitions. As a player you are not going to feel that if there is a constant turnover of players that are key to the team. We all know that if we stay in this league and offers come in for say Webster and Brownhill the club will sell. Rinse and repeat will not get us to the PL any time soon. When you look at the players who have moved on last season...Reid and Bryan will most likely be playing Championship football next season, but on more money, and Flint the same. The grass isn't always greener, as I implied in my initial post. Our turnover is no more or less than any other club. We are building slowly...this season is probably still another season too soon. If we were to keep this side and add with quality strikers, we imo, could be top 2 next season. I really don't want to lose in a play offs...the negatives far out way the positives imo. Would much rather go up stronger in the top 2 if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 Double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 I think we just need to carry on as we are doing, and see where it takes us. There will always be “bigger” clubs than us at this level who try to pinch our best players, or alternatively Prem clubs sniffing around too. If we don’t go up and neither do Boro don’t, we need to use Flint to our advantage and say 1) there’s no guarantee of promotion 2) you won’t always be a cult hero somewhere else....you might be better off here. Of course if money is the driver there ain’t a lot you can do. LJ will always need to be a “builder”, there’s always a food chain. You also need a bit if change to keep it fresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I think we just need to carry on as we are doing, and see where it takes us. There will always be “bigger” clubs than us at this level who try to pinch our best players, or alternatively Prem clubs sniffing around too. If we don’t go up and neither do Boro don’t, we need to use Flint to our advantage and say 1) there’s no guarantee of promotion 2) you won’t always be a cult hero somewhere else....you might be better off here. Of course if money is the driver there ain’t a lot you can do. LJ will always need to be a “builder”, there’s always a food chain. You also need a bit if change to keep it fresh. Indeed. Remember how we were never going to be able to compete if we sold Flint, Bryan, Reid etc etc Thats football, players come and players go and you shouldn’t be afraid of turnover. Were it not for Flint and Bryan going we’d have never seen Webster or Dasilva here for example. Were it not for Kodjia going we’d have likely not seen Tammy, were it not for Tammy going back we’d have not seen Reid have the season he had etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I think we just need to carry on as we are doing, and see where it takes us. There will always be “bigger” clubs than us at this level who try to pinch our best players, or alternatively Prem clubs sniffing around too. If we don’t go up and neither do Boro don’t, we need to use Flint to our advantage and say 1) there’s no guarantee of promotion 2) you won’t always be a cult hero somewhere else....you might be better off here. Of course if money is the driver there ain’t a lot you can do. LJ will always need to be a “builder”, there’s always a food chain. You also need a bit if change to keep it fresh. I think the thing lost in this is with every player sold we open up avenues in terms of recruitment. Also, we become a little bit more stable each time. We will continue to sell at a good price but the teams we sell to will steadily become bigger, the fees steadily more and the quality we bring back in steadily better or higher potential. This squad is just the tip of the iceberg. It is risky of course but it is possible that we only need to sell 1-2 a summer. We have no pressure to sell Brownhill, Webster or Kelly this summer. Still have multiple year contracts left on them and we are showing them we can compete. Think we will start keeping our best players a little longer as we move forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 2 hours ago, spudski said: ...if only we could keep them all together and add someone like Tammy upfront. Wishful thinking maybe...but that would be a joy to watch and support. Just need that quality up front to get us over the line imo. Or perhaps just play two up front from the start. Easy to mark out the big, slowish front man and - as you note - prioritising crosses in means he's alone trying to tussle with some very good defenders. Those defenders are less sure what to do when it's "Well there's the big bloke, but there's a little fast bloke making a run off the ball. What do I do now?" There is a reason why we've been chasing the game but come good in the second half so often this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: Or perhaps just play two up front from the start. Easy to mark out the big, slowish front man and - as you note - prioritising crosses in means he's alone trying to tussle with some very good defenders. Those defenders are less sure what to do when it's "Well there's the big bloke, but there's a little fast bloke making a run off the ball. What do I do now?" There is a reason why we've been chasing the game but come good in the second half so often this season. Has to be the right sort of '2' though- I think it would cause us to lose balance in other areas. A sort of '10' or striker who will assist behind Diedhiou may well do- had we gone with 2 up front v the midfield and side we were up against, think we may have come unstuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Has to be the right sort of '2' though- I think it would cause us to lose balance in other areas. A sort of '10' or striker who will assist behind Diedhiou may well do- had we gone with 2 up front v the midfield and side we were up against, think we may have come unstuck. We did go two up front - and made vastly more chances. I have nothing particularly against starting a lone striker, but unless he's dead quick, defences will just neutralise him more often than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: Or perhaps just play two up front from the start. Easy to mark out the big, slowish front man and - as you note - prioritising crosses in means he's alone trying to tussle with some very good defenders. Those defenders are less sure what to do when it's "Well there's the big bloke, but there's a little fast bloke making a run off the ball. What do I do now?" There is a reason why we've been chasing the game but come good in the second half so often this season. I don't always agree with Red- Robbo but on starting 2 upfront, I can see the logic, especially if Weimann is out. The other things we learnt today is that Pack is the boss of our midfield, and we miss him when he's not there, plus the reason LJ starts Paterson ahead of Palmer is that Paterson tracks back more and pressurises the ball in a way Palmer doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 We have two fantastic centre halves, in my time the only partnership that pushes them close are Merrick and Collier 45 years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Dr Balls said: I don't always agree with Red- Robbo but on starting 2 upfront, I can see the logic, especially if Weimann is out. The other things we learnt today is that Pack is the boss of our midfield, and we miss him when he's not there, plus the reason LJ starts Paterson ahead of Palmer is that Paterson tracks back more and pressurises the ball in a way Palmer doesn't. I think Patto had something to prove when he came on, and gave one of his best displays yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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