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Davefevs

What Is Going On? Hypothetical Questions

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2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

I believe that SL is a decent bloke with the best interests of BCFC at heart however I firmly believe that he is profoundly too ‘safety first ‘ to make the necessary decisions that could elevate the club to the highest level.

 I believe that LJ is very frustrated that for the second consecutive season he has got us into a very good position to get promoted and each time he hasn’t got what he needed to achieve his goal .

LJ builds up the house of cards and the draft from the transfer window opened by the owner blows them all down.

Will LJ walk ?

Dya know, it wouldn’t surprise me if he left in the summer ....

Meanwhile at Ashton Gate , Jamie Mac will be promoted to head coach with Skuse coming in as assistant.

 

Cole Skuse has recently sold his house in Ipswich

  • Hmmm 1

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30 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You just don’t get it do you?

LJ will be going nowhere this summer - unless he’s sacked and that’s not going to happen anytime soon.

SL appointed LJ to introduce and develop his strategy of sustainability and stability and to show signs of improvement season on season. Sustainability means selling our better players as we saw last summer.

LJ was 100% aware of what restrictions he’d be working under when he took the job. No way will he go to SL and ask him to fund top quality Championship players. Thats what Cotterell did and that cost him his job.

Ultimately the PL is the number one target but quite rightly SL refuses to buy promotion as other clubs have. LJ is Head Coach to develop a squad capable of reaching the PL with as many home grown players as possible. 

 

30 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You just don’t get it do you?

LJ will be going nowhere this summer - unless he’s sacked and that’s not going to happen anytime soon.

SL appointed LJ to introduce and develop his strategy of sustainability and stability and to show signs of improvement season on season. Sustainability means selling our better players as we saw last summer.

LJ was 100% aware of what restrictions he’d be working under when he took the job. No way will he go to SL and ask him to fund top quality Championship players. Thats what Cotterell did and that cost him his job.

Ultimately the PL is the number one target but quite rightly SL refuses to buy promotion as other clubs have. LJ is Head Coach to develop a squad capable of reaching the PL with as many home grown players as possible. 

Except that it’s well documented that LJ DID. go to SL to ask him to fund a top quality striker and he got an academy product recalled.

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3 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

 

Except that it’s well documented that LJ DID. go to SL to ask him to fund a top quality striker and he got an academy product recalled.

‘Well documented?’  

Where did you read that Major?        :dunno:

 

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2 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

He may leave the way his dad did, the old "mutual consent". David Wagner could work to the same constraints and would have learned a lot this year.

Wagner would also be able to tap into the German market much more readily than LJ, as it's what he knows.

Not that I am advocating a managerial change but if LJ got snapped up? We could certainly do much worse.

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wagner would also be able to tap into the German market much more readily than LJ, as it's what he knows.

Not that I am advocating a managerial change but if LJ got snapped up? We could certainly do much worse.

Available with no compensation. I'd love to see him here.  If the vacancy arises.

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2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

I believe that SL is a decent bloke with the best interests of BCFC at heart however I firmly believe that he is profoundly too ‘safety first ‘ to make the necessary decisions that could elevate the club to the highest level.

 I believe that LJ is very frustrated that for the second consecutive season he has got us into a very good position to get promoted and each time he hasn’t got what he needed to achieve his goal .

LJ builds up the house of cards and the draft from the transfer window opened by the owner blows them all down.

Will LJ walk ?

Dya know, it wouldn’t surprise me if he left in the summer . 

Would WBA interest him ? Damn right it would. They believe that they should be in the Prem and know what is needed.

Meanwhile at Ashton Gate , Jamie Mac will be promoted to head coach with Skuse coming in as assistant.

Nice ‘ n safe for Uncle Steve who will sanction the buys of more ‘ not quite good enough ‘ players and rinse and repeat.

 

I'm heartened. The Major saying everything I believe.

SL - the dead hand of control over his plaything - Cue Robborod. He's had a long and distinguished career you know. Pompous or what?

Edited by southvillekiddy

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3 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

He may leave the way his dad did, the old "mutual consent".

Sacked you mean.

Mutual contsent is announced to avoid embarrassment for the manager and shame for the club. Most clubs do the same.

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1 minute ago, Major Isewater said:

On thé official site .

 

Got a link?

I obviously missed it.................:cool2:

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I like LJ, I think on limited resources he's doing a good job. Problem is I feel us fans are more ambitious than the club and our levels of expectation are high. I also feel LJ is more ambitious than the job, a bit like Cotts was. They know to get out this league you need 3/4 players of quality, and you're better off buying proven quality and building a squad around those players. Sadly unless those players are possibly available on loan, those upstairs wont allow  the manager to try and sign that sort of player and have to hope they can pull a rough diamond out, or buy a player who is OK at this level and maybe been under performing at another club and hope it all clicks into place here and they become the quality we need. Sadly it seldom works that way and in the meantime any quality players we have are sold to bigger clubs to fund the next rough diamond hunting mission.  I would not be surprised if LJ was getting frustrated and again in January was left majorly frustrated as it's he who gets it from the fans, when in reality I'm sure he would have loved to have gone out and spent 10m on two quality players that we needed but weren't allowed to.

So if there is genuine interest from West Brom or Fulham I would not be surprised to see him jump ship, as he may feel he has done all he can here under the budget given, and knows that at either of those other clubs he can implement what he knows can be a successful formula, providing you are given the tools to achieve it and it would not surprise me if these clubs have noticed this also. 

The question is, does Lansdown if Johnson leaves in the summer, decide to promote JM, get in a foreign coach or perhaps do something sensible like ring up Warnock after he leaves Cardiff in the summer which I feel he will if they go down or stay up, and say how about one more one year job, and get us promoted. 

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6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Got a link?

I obviously missed it.................:cool2:

You shouldn't miss things. You've had a long and distinguished career, so someone says.

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4 hours ago, MC RISK77 said:

I’m thinking that you are spending too much time over-thinking...enjoy the next 16 days.

Haha. Yeah good point. I should be Off to to otib equivalent of Dubai for some warm weather training 🤣

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27 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

 

Except that it’s well documented that LJ DID. go to SL to ask him to fund a top quality striker and he got an academy product recalled.

I thought they'd attempted to sign Scott Hogan?

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31 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

Cole Skuse has recently sold his house in Ipswich

And recently bought one near Almondsbury.

As for LJ and JMc not getting on...utter bollox, they frequently travel to games together. They've done the Wolves/Shrews game and Chelsea/Man U (when LJ was sat next to JT) in the last few weeks. JMc is a pretty fiery character, picked up the booking at home to Wolves for shouting at Wolves assistant so no massive surprise to hear he may have lost his cool on Tuesday particularly given the level of performance he was witnessing from the City players. Nothing to see here IMO.

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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Haha. Yeah good point. I should be Off to to otib equivalent of Dubai for some warm weather training 🤣

See you at Brean then....

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5 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I thought they'd attempted to sign Scott Hogan?

Just rumours on social media and in tabloid press - nothing substantiated....

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44 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

Cole Skuse has recently sold his house in Ipswich

And he’s had a house built near Yate as well.........could this mean that Skuse will be moving back to home town?      :dunno:

14 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I thought they'd attempted to sign Scott Hogan?

Source? 

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37 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

SL - the dead hand of control over his plaything - Cue Robborod. He's had a long and distinguished career you know. Pompous or what?

‘Long and successful career’ 

Hardly ‘distinguished’............:cool2:

I got to the level I wanted to reach. Any further promotions would have meant becoming a nursing officer  with no clinical involvement and I didn’t fancy that......

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1 hour ago, ScottishRed said:

We have a winner!

It would not surprise me in the slightest if LJ leaves this summer as I have mentioned previously.

I think he is getting to the point where ‘now’ is more important than the ‘future’ - failure to agree to back him in the summer could definitely see his departure.

Where would he go ? Despite all the hype i'm not aware of anyone better than City being seriously interested in him. I think he would only leave if sacked (unlikely) or poached (unlikely at present).

He must know SL very well, so whatever meddling may or may not be happening, it cannot be any surprise to him, and even if it is, he should be very grateful that he wasn't shown the door when 95% of other managers would have been so ought to accept it as part of the package.

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What's going on? A lot of sh1t stirring on here if you ask me.... Sorry Dave I know you are close to the club and perhaps see things others can't, but sometimes these little spats mean nothing at all, except that those concerned actually care, after all it's a man game, still, well almost. What happens in the dugout, stays in the dugout😏

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10 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

What's going on? A lot of sh1t stirring on here if you ask me.... Sorry Dave I know you are close to the club and perhaps see things others can't, but sometimes these little spats mean nothing at all, except that those concerned actually care, after all it's a man game, still, well almost. What happens in the dugout, stays in the dugout😏

You mean spates .

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

You just don’t get it do you?

LJ will be going nowhere this summer - unless he’s sacked and that’s not going to happen anytime soon.

SL appointed LJ to introduce and develop his strategy of sustainability and stability and to show signs of improvement season on season. Sustainability means selling our better players as we saw last summer.

LJ was 100% aware of what restrictions he’d be working under when he took the job. No way will he go to SL and ask him to fund top quality Championship players. Thats what Cotterell did and that cost him his job.

Ultimately the PL is the number one target but quite rightly SL refuses to buy promotion as other clubs have. LJ is Head Coach to develop a squad capable of reaching the PL with as many home grown players as possible. 

Whilst I agree with what you are saying no-one's expectations stay the same hence why the fans now expect a top 6 finish when they would have taken mid-table at the beginning of the season.

The same goes for managers, I'm sure many a manager has taken a job knowing what they'll get to work with only to overachieve and need to realign those resources to match the new expectations.
If SL genuinely said that he expects the playoffs then LJ has every right to go and ask for financial backing to get the players good enough to achieve that. It is fair to say that the last season and this LJ has been above expected projections at the halfway point and that he didn't have the resources to continue that push. If SL continues to hope that LJ can pull off a miracle and get us promoted on a budget then there is going to come to a point where he underachieves and we find ourselves with yet another sinking ship.

LJ was aware of his restrictions, but I'm sure his goals were, as you said, sustainability and show signs of improvement season upon season, well, he sold arguably the clubs 3 biggest players and spent less than 1/3 of that money on improving and building the squad, that's sustainability right there, even if he had spent that guessed figure of £4.5m to loan Assombalonga that would still have seen us being sustainable. 
The second part of his job is to show improvement each season, well, we've gone from relegation to 12 points clear, last season we were in an automatic promotion spot in December but finished 11th which is still an improvement and now we're currently 7th. The problem here is if LJ's goal is to improve season upon season then even if we did finish 7th then the next season LJ would need to make the play-offs to be reaching his goals set and I fail to see how he can be asked to do that if he's unable to strengthen with quality players.

Come the end of this season if we do not get the promotion I think it would be safe to say that the following will happen:
 

  • Kalas will either go to Scotland, a lower Premiership team or a genuine contender for Championship promotion. Financially securing Kalas on a permanent deal is a big ask and I have to think if we were able to pull it off that there would most certainly be some kind of agreement that we are to push for promotion. I cannot see Kalas turning down a practically guaranteed league title with Celtic and European football to sit at mid-table in the Championship.
  • Dasilva may be brought in permanently, it all depends on how he feels about the deal.
  • Palmer will most likely return to Chelsea as, despite his raw talent, he doesn't seem to fit into Johnson's tactics and he seems a little bit of a luxury player.
  • We will need to sign a striker of considerable talent as we currently have a collection of strikers who seem to be getting used as utility players due to them not being up to the task of scoring.
  • O'Dowda will be sold due to an unsuccessful contract negotiation.

So if Kalas leaves, Palmer leaves, O'Dowda leaves and more than likely we'll lose one or two others we'll need to spend on at least two very high-quality players, a centre back and a striker. That is of course what we need at the very least in that scenario and if we cannot find these players on loan then clubs will know our situation and prices will rise. As much as I love Wright he is not good enough to be a part of a starting team line that is chasing promotion and it's clear to see that Fammy needs someone to take some of the pressure off of him to stay injury-free and performing.

All in all, I do not see how LJ can improve again next season unless we drop lower down the league to say 9th - 11th without some serious backing financially. SL may not think that we need to invest more in order to get into those play-off positions but I don't see many people who agree with him and I would hesitate a guess that the high tensions and arguing are largely down to frustration of knowing that the target bar is set too high based off of the teams current over-achievement. The simple fact is that this league is one of the most difficult in the world and getting consistent better league table finishes can only happen if the quality and quality in depth improves when it comes to the players.

There is a reason Norwich, Leeds and Sheff Utd are so far ahead the rest of the teams this year and it's not hard to see. Norwich sold just two players for a combined amount of £32m and brought in players like Krul and Pukki on free transfers because they could pay the wages that we can't. They've also spent incredibly smart but again, on players who just wouldn't consider us due to wages which are probably covered by their sales. 
Leeds, on the other hand, have bought quality in Bamford and again loaned in a big name goalkeeper like Kiko Casilla who is yet another player way out of our reach due to wages.
Sheffield United landed one of our targets, if rumours are to be believed in Hogan. This one baffles me if it's not financial,  I mean they have McGoldrick, Sharp and Madine whilst we essentially just have Fammy and yet Hogan still would go to them despite having next to no chance to get into the starting line up when he probably could have walked into ours. For me, that move has to be a financial decision or a major gamble on him getting his foot in the door with an outstanding performance in a game where he gets the chance.

My point is that the teams who look likely to go up are pulling in players that we seem unable to get financially and if that is the case then LJ's target of improvement each season is unrealistic as there comes a point where we need our big signing. Hogan cost £4.5m and he's 3rd/4th choice striker at Sheffield United, yet that is almost the same as our highest ever paid fee for £5m. It just goes to show how much we need to improve our financial clout in order to compete and how unrealistic it is for LJ to build a play-off team as every time he gets close he's ham-stringed in January by a lack of investment.

At some point, SL needs to see that these chances to get into the playoffs are not a given and could very well not happen again for a long time.

I honestly think either LJ will walk or be sacked before the 20/21 season because he will get a to a point where he will have done all he can without the improved backing and I don't believe it will come. Every club needs to take a risk at some point if they want to increase their position within the league. Just one season in the Premier League would increase our financial position far beyond what we'll ever achieve with the current model. Our current model may be safe, and I'm not suggesting spending excessively, but I am saying there comes a point where taking the gamble on a bigger signing can actually be the difference between finishing mid-table every season and actually having a genuine shot at promotion.  

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11 minutes ago, Spike said:

Whilst I agree with what you are saying no-one's expectations stay the same hence why the fans now expect a top 6 finish when they would have taken mid-table at the beginning of the season.

The same goes for managers, I'm sure many a manager has taken a job knowing what they'll get to work with only to overachieve and need to realign those resources to match the new expectations.
If SL genuinely said that he expects the playoffs then LJ has every right to go and ask for financial backing to get the players good enough to achieve that. It is fair to say that the last season and this LJ has been above expected projections at the halfway point and that he didn't have the resources to continue that push. If SL continues to hope that LJ can pull off a miracle and get us promoted on a budget then there is going to come to a point where he underachieves and we find ourselves with yet another sinking ship.

LJ was aware of his restrictions, but I'm sure his goals were, as you said, sustainability and show signs of improvement season upon season, well, he sold arguably the clubs 3 biggest players and spent less than 1/3 of that money on improving and building the squad, that's sustainability right there, even if he had spent that guessed figure of £4.5m to loan Assombalonga that would still have seen us being sustainable. 
 The second part of his job is to show improvement each season, well, we've gone from relegation to 12 points clear, last season we were in an automatic promotion spot in December but finished 11th which is still an improvement and now we're currently 7th. The problem here is if LJ's goal is to improve season upon season then even if we did finish 7th then the next season LJ would need to make the play-offs to be reaching his goals set and I fail to see how he can be asked to do that if he's unable to strengthen with quality players.

Come the end of this season if we do not get the promotion I think it would be safe to say that the following will happen:
 

  • Kalas will either go to Scotland, a lower Premiership team or a genuine contender for Championship promotion. Financially securing Kalas on a permanent deal is a big ask and I have to think if we were able to pull it off that there would most certainly be some kind of agreement that we are to push for promotion. I cannot see Kalas turning down a practically guaranteed league title with Celtic and European football to sit at mid-table in the Championship.
  • Dasilva may be brought in permanently, it all depends on how he feels about the deal.
  •  Palmer will most likely return to Chelsea as, despite his raw talent, he doesn't seem to fit into Johnson's tactics and he seems a little bit of a luxury player.
  •  We will need to sign a striker of considerable talent as we currently have a collection of strikers who seem to be getting used as utility players due to them not being up to the task of scoring.
  • O'Dowda will be sold due to an unsuccessful contract negotiation.

 So if Kalas leaves, Palmer leaves, O'Dowda leaves and more than likely we'll lose one or two others we'll need to spend on at least two very high-quality players, a centre back and a striker. That is of course what we need at the very least in that scenario and if we cannot find these players on loan then clubs will know our situation and prices will rise. As much as I love Wright he is not good enough to be a part of a starting team line that is chasing promotion and it's clear to see that Fammy needs someone to take some of the pressure off of him to stay injury-free and performing.

All in all, I do not see how LJ can improve again next season unless we drop lower down the league to say 9th - 11th without some serious backing financially. SL may not think that we need to invest more in order to get into those play-off positions but I don't see many people who agree with him and I would hesitate a guess that the high tensions and arguing are largely down to frustration of knowing that the target bar is set too high based off of the teams current over-achievement. The simple fact is that this league is one of the most difficult in the world and getting consistent better league table finishes can only happen if the quality and quality in depth improves when it comes to the players.

There is a reason Norwich, Leeds and Sheff Utd are so far ahead the rest of the teams this year and it's not hard to see. Norwich sold just two players for a combined amount of £32m and brought in players like Krul and Pukki on free transfers because they could pay the wages that we can't. They've also spent incredibly smart but again, on players who just wouldn't consider us due to wages which are probably covered by their sales. 
Leeds, on the other hand, have bought quality in Bamford and again loaned in a big name goalkeeper like Kiko Casilla who is yet another player way out of our reach due to wages.
Sheffield United landed one of our targets, if rumours are to be believed in Hogan. This one baffles me if it's not financial,  I mean they have McGoldrick, Sharp and Madine whilst we essentially just have Fammy and yet Hogan still would go to them despite having next to no chance to get into the starting line up when he probably could have walked into ours. For me, that move has to be a financial decision or a major gamble on him getting his foot in the door with an outstanding performance in a game where he gets the chance.


My point is that the teams who look likely to go up are pulling in players that we seem unable to get financially and if that is the case then LJ's target of improvement each season is unrealistic as there comes a point where we need our big signing. Hogan cost £4.5m and he's 3rd/4th choice striker at Sheffield United, yet that is almost the same as our highest ever paid fee for £5m. It just goes to show how much we need to improve our financial clout in order to compete and how unrealistic it is for LJ to build a play-off team as every time he gets close he's ham-stringed in January by a lack of investment.

At some point, SL needs to see that these chances to get into the playoffs are not a given and could very well not happen again for a long time.

I honestly think either LJ will walk or be sacked before the 20/21 season because he will get a to a point where he will have done all he can without the improved backing and I don't believe it will come. Every club needs to take a risk at some point if they want to increase their position within the league. Just one season in the Premier League would increase our financial position far beyond what we'll ever achieve with the current model. Our current model may be safe, and I'm not suggesting spending excessively, but I am saying there comes a point where taking the gamble on a bigger signing can actually be the difference between finishing mid-table every season and actually having a genuine shot at promotion.  

All managed extremely well too and this isn't a dig at Johnson- but I'd argue the top 3 have the top 3 managers over the season- especially Sheffield United with what they have. Compare their budget and expenditure to Aston Villa, Middlesbrough, Stoke, West Brom to name 4- and this goes for the top 3 but particularly Sheffield United, Wilder is a bit of a miracle worker IMO. Bielsa is lauded by Guardiola, Pochettino, Simeone which tells you all you need to know. Norwich have scouted brilliantly but also deserve credit for off field management- sticking to the plan, when it may have been easy getting rid of Farke last season after ups and downs. Quite a few clubs would have.

On us.

Kalas we have to hope to retain, Da Silva let's hope he enjoys it enough here to join on a permanent...Palmer is bit part, could put the cash we saved in Jan by not loaning Assombalonga and would save by not buying him permanently towards finding that right striker- trade out Diedhiou if necessary to help finance it...we'll need to be a bit creative and I question whether we'll deliver that.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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(referring to Davefevs original post) Of course it could all mean that SL realises what a poisoned chalice the Premier League actually is.

Apart from a huge pot of cash there are very few positives to being a bottom 6 PL club to where we are now (top 8 Championship club).

At the moment we have reasonable financial stability, large crowds, a manager whom is in SL's debt (due to not sacking him on a couple of occasions), and a team that can sometimes compete with the big boys in the cup and top end of the Championship.

The PL would cause huge changes to be made. Not many of our current players are good enough so would need replacing. That includes large fees (Tammy would cost at least £30 million) to buy players a huge increase in wages (2-3 yr contracts) for the new recruits and parity for the current playing staff. Straight away the pot of gold is gone on increased wages and new players.

If we went up then come October when we are struggling there will be calls for LJ, and his staff to be replaced. He will have to be paid off (probably a 2 -3 yr premier wage contract) and a more expensive replacement brought in (Moyes / Pearce won't come cheap).

On the playing side the Championship is far more exciting to watch than the PL. Yes it will be nice to see the top 6 at AG but the other 12 clubs will come here playing 8 men behind the ball to go home with a point. We were all frustrated with Leeds time wasting, that will be the norm for away sides in the PL.

Yes clubs such as B'mouth and Brighton have made a success of it but there are dozens of others that have been to the 'promised land' and are now languishing way below the PL without a penny to scratch their proverbial s with.

Maybe just maybe SL realises the huge sea change that promotion would bring and is content, for the time being, trending in the top half of the Championship with 20,000 gates each week.

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46 minutes ago, Robbored said:

And he’s had a house built near Yate as well.........could this mean that Skuse will be moving back to home town?      :dunno:

Source? 

It was either on os or in an interview. I definitely heard/saw it mentioned somewhere 

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21 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

(referring to Davefevs original post) Of course it could all mean that SL realises what a poisoned chalice the Premier League actually is.

Apart from a huge pot of cash there are very few positives to being a bottom 6 PL club to where we are now (top 8 Championship club).

At the moment we have reasonable financial stability, large crowds, a manager whom is in SL's debt (due to not sacking him on a couple of occasions), and a team that can sometimes compete with the big boys in the cup and top end of the Championship.

The PL would cause huge changes to be made. Not many of our current players are good enough so would need replacing. That includes large fees (Tammy would cost at least £30 million) to buy players a huge increase in wages (2-3 yr contracts) for the new recruits and parity for the current playing staff. Straight away the pot of gold is gone on increased wages and new players.

 If we went up then come October when we are struggling there will be calls for LJ, and his staff to be replaced. He will have to be paid off (probably a 2 -3 yr premier wage contract) and a more expensive replacement brought in (Moyes / Pearce won't come cheap).

 On the playing side the Championship is far more exciting to watch than the PL. Yes it will be nice to see the top 6 at AG but the other 12 clubs will come here playing 8 men behind the ball to go home with a point. We were all frustrated with Leeds time wasting, that will be the norm for away sides in the PL.

 Yes clubs such as B'mouth and Brighton have made a success of it but there are dozens of others that have been to the 'promised land' and are now languishing way below the PL without a penny to scratch their proverbial s with.

 Maybe just maybe SL realises the huge sea change that promotion would bring and is content, for the time being, trending in the top half of the Championship with 20,000 gates each week.

Correct- it's called professionalism some might say. Believe Wolves were slow with substitutions in the recent Cup game. Unsure about the other 13 clubs coming here with 8 behind the ball though...as a newly promoted clubs, especially ambitious ones outside the top 6 would come to play IMO- they'd fancy their chances of an away win.

Regards financial stability- well the typical operating losses before Player Sales or sell on fees received etc to offset? They aren't exactly small. In this respect we are in the main relatively good by Championship standards though- which in reality shows how bad it is in this League. I'd say we do our best with it most of the time- summer 2018 a big statement in that respect.

I get that a lot of the PL cash would go on new players, wages etc. However our best chance of running a profitable or even a breakeven ship- or at least minimising losses- is either in the PL, or as a yoyo club between top third League One, bottom third Championship and reducing running costs to this. Financial stability as a regular top half Championship side is a big misnomer, much of the time.

Agree with a lot of your post though, big changes would be inevitable and it may not pay off. Don't think he doesn't want promotion though.

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55 minutes ago, Robbored said:

‘Long and successful career’ 

Hardly ‘distinguished’............:cool2:

I got to the level I wanted to reach. Any further promotions would have meant becoming a nursing officer  with no clinical involvement and I didn’t fancy that......

respect if you're a medic mate. Would never have guessed that, fair play to you

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11 minutes ago, Spike said:

Whilst I agree with what you are saying no-one's expectations stay the same hence why the fans now expect a top 6 finish when they would have taken mid-table at the beginning of the season.

The same goes for managers, I'm sure many a manager has taken a job knowing what they'll get to work with only to overachieve and need to realign those resources to match the new expectations.
If SL genuinely said that he expects the playoffs then LJ has every right to go and ask for financial backing to get the players good enough to achieve that. It is fair to say that the last season and this LJ has been above expected projections at the halfway point and that he didn't have the resources to continue that push. If SL continues to hope that LJ can pull off a miracle and get us promoted on a budget then there is going to come to a point where he underachieves and we find ourselves with yet another sinking ship.

LJ was aware of his restrictions, but I'm sure his goals were, as you said, sustainability and show signs of improvement season upon season, well, he sold arguably the clubs 3 biggest players and spent less than 1/3 of that money on improving and building the squad, that's sustainability right there, even if he had spent that guessed figure of £4.5m to loan Assombalonga that would still have seen us being sustainable. 
The second part of his job is to show improvement each season, well, we've gone from relegation to 12 points clear, last season we were in an automatic promotion spot in December but finished 11th which is still an improvement and now we're currently 7th. The problem here is if LJ's goal is to improve season upon season then even if we did finish 7th then the next season LJ would need to make the play-offs to be reaching his goals set and I fail to see how he can be asked to do that if he's unable to strengthen with quality players.

Come the end of this season if we do not get the promotion I think it would be safe to say that the following will happen:
 

  • Kalas will either go to Scotland, a lower Premiership team or a genuine contender for Championship promotion. Financially securing Kalas on a permanent deal is a big ask and I have to think if we were able to pull it off that there would most certainly be some kind of agreement that we are to push for promotion. I cannot see Kalas turning down a practically guaranteed league title with Celtic and European football to sit at mid-table in the Championship.
  • Dasilva may be brought in permanently, it all depends on how he feels about the deal.
  • Palmer will most likely return to Chelsea as, despite his raw talent, he doesn't seem to fit into Johnson's tactics and he seems a little bit of a luxury player.
  • We will need to sign a striker of considerable talent as we currently have a collection of strikers who seem to be getting used as utility players due to them not being up to the task of scoring.
  • O'Dowda will be sold due to an unsuccessful contract negotiation.

So if Kalas leaves, Palmer leaves, O'Dowda leaves and more than likely we'll lose one or two others we'll need to spend on at least two very high-quality players, a centre back and a striker. That is of course what we need at the very least in that scenario and if we cannot find these players on loan then clubs will know our situation and prices will rise. As much as I love Wright he is not good enough to be a part of a starting team line that is chasing promotion and it's clear to see that Fammy needs someone to take some of the pressure off of him to stay injury-free and performing.

All in all, I do not see how LJ can improve again next season unless we drop lower down the league to say 9th - 11th without some serious backing financially. SL may not think that we need to invest more in order to get into those play-off positions but I don't see many people who agree with him and I would hesitate a guess that the high tensions and arguing are largely down to frustration of knowing that the target bar is set too high based off of the teams current over-achievement. The simple fact is that this league is one of the most difficult in the world and getting consistent better league table finishes can only happen if the quality and quality in depth improves when it comes to the players.

There is a reason Norwich, Leeds and Sheff Utd are so far ahead the rest of the teams this year and it's not hard to see. Norwich sold just two players for a combined amount of £32m and brought in players like Krul and Pukki on free transfers because they could pay the wages that we can't. They've also spent incredibly smart but again, on players who just wouldn't consider us due to wages which are probably covered by their sales. 
Leeds, on the other hand, have bought quality in Bamford and again loaned in a big name goalkeeper like Kiko Casilla who is yet another player way out of our reach due to wages.
Sheffield United landed one of our targets, if rumours are to be believed in Hogan. This one baffles me if it's not financial,  I mean they have McGoldrick, Sharp and Madine whilst we essentially just have Fammy and yet Hogan still would go to them despite having next to no chance to get into the starting line up when he probably could have walked into ours. For me, that move has to be a financial decision or a major gamble on him getting his foot in the door with an outstanding performance in a game where he gets the chance.

My point is that the teams who look likely to go up are pulling in players that we seem unable to get financially and if that is the case then LJ's target of improvement each season is unrealistic as there comes a point where we need our big signing. Hogan cost £4.5m and he's 3rd/4th choice striker at Sheffield United, yet that is almost the same as our highest ever paid fee for £5m. It just goes to show how much we need to improve our financial clout in order to compete and how unrealistic it is for LJ to build a play-off team as every time he gets close he's ham-stringed in January by a lack of investment.

At some point, SL needs to see that these chances to get into the playoffs are not a given and could very well not happen again for a long time.

I honestly think either LJ will walk or be sacked before the 20/21 season because he will get a to a point where he will have done all he can without the improved backing and I don't believe it will come. Every club needs to take a risk at some point if they want to increase their position within the league. Just one season in the Premier League would increase our financial position far beyond what we'll ever achieve with the current model. Our current model may be safe, and I'm not suggesting spending excessively, but I am saying there comes a point where taking the gamble on a bigger signing can actually be the difference between finishing mid-table every season and actually having a genuine shot at promotion.  

It’s taken me 10 mins to read this post!

SL said at the Senior Reds Xmas lunch that he felt the play offs were an achievable goal. At no point did he say that’ll ‘expects’ to reach the top six.

LJ will not walk away either. To him he has his dream job. He loves Bristol City. Every time Ive seen him speak that really shows through. He said the last time he spoke at Senior Reds that if he got sacked he’d be devastated. 

Bottom line - SL will not pay mega wages as some other clubs do. That obviously restricts the type of player LJ can attract and yet despite that he’s taken us to the fringe of the pray offs.  He’s been doing a decent job with one hand tied behind his back and his critics forget or deliberately overlook that fact.

Where we are now is where I hoped to be preseason. In with a chance of a pray off spot with 10 games to go.....and City haven’t signed any player of note.......

This time last season otib was in meltdown at the thought of losing Flint, Bryan and Reid and now some are dreading the thought of losing Kalas (not our player anyway) and CoD. So what?    City are defensively stronger without the three that moved on.

Absolutely no doubt at all that LJ and MA will have targets already lined up for the summer window.

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3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It’s taken me 10 mins to read this post!

SL said at the Senior Reds Xmas lunch that he felt the play offs were an achievable goal. At no point did he say that’ll ‘expects’ to reach the top six.

LJ will not walk away either. To him he has his dream job. He loves Bristol City. Every time Ive seen him speak that really shows through. He said the last time he spoke at Senior Reds that if he got sacked he’d be devastated. 

Bottom line - SL will not pay mega wages as some other clubs do. That obviously restricts the type of player LJ can attract and yet despite that he’s taken us to the fringe of the pray offs.  He’s been doing a decent job with one hand tied behind his back and his critics forget or deliberately overlook that fact.

Where we are now is where I hoped to be preseason. In with a chance of a pray off spot with 10 games to go.....and City haven’t signed any player of note.......

This time last season otib was in meltdown at the thought of losing Flint, Bryan and Reid and now some are dreading the thought of losing Kalas (not our player anyway) and CoD. So what?    City are defensively stronger without the three that moved on.

Absolutely no doubt at all that LJ and MA will have targets already lined up for the summer window.

I pretty much agree with everything you’ve written here.

 I believe that when someone gives their all, as LJ. is doing , if all their  efforts are in vain because someone or something is blocking you this leads to frustration and eventually becomes untenable.

For two consecutive seasons LJ has moved mountains to get us into a potential play off place only to have the rug pulled out from under him with the contraints imposed upon him by SL. 

How many times can he pull off the same trick before wondering if his ambitions would be better served at another club ? 

Sure he loves the club but ...

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1 hour ago, 1bristolcity said:

What's going on? A lot of sh1t stirring on here if you ask me.... Sorry Dave I know you are close to the club and perhaps see things others can't, but sometimes these little spats mean nothing at all, except that those concerned actually care, after all it's a man game, still, well almost. What happens in the dugout, stays in the dugout😏

I’m not close at all. Have no ITK status. Just a fan posing a hypothetical question as the recent run of results has shown up things that get ignored when you’re on a good run. 

As you say, they may be nothing at all. 

On twitter some people are saying it’s healthy to have “spates” (sic).  Indeed it is. 

I just think that the all singing from the same hymn sheet has looked a bit shaky since the transfer window ended. 

Most on here are saying it’s a series of unconnected events. That is fine. Hence the hypothetical bit. 

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I’m not close at all. Have no ITK status. Just a fan posing a hypothetical question as the recent run of results has shown up things that get ignored when you’re on a good run. 

As you say, they may be nothing at all. 

On twitter some people are saying it’s healthy to have “spates” (sic).  Indeed it is. 

I just think that the all singing from the same hymn sheet has looked a bit shaky since the transfer window ended. 

Most on here are saying it’s a series of unconnected events. That is fine. Hence the hypothetical bit. 

Personally I was not at all happy with SL's intervention regarding Semenyo and I do wonder if the management team felt similarly. We were in for some top strikers at the start of January yet after Palmer signed there were very little rumours in regard to who we were bringing in and I assume that means we were never really close to signing one. To have some ambitious targets at the start of the month, and ending it with being told by the club's owner (who isn't even supposed to be involved in the day-to-day running of the club) that you have to make do with a 19 year old that has been playing in L2 must have been disappointing for the management team. 

I believe it was LJ that was the one who said SL had played a big part in Semenyo being recalled as well. I seriously doubt whether SL/the club would have been particularly happy with him inferring that SL was involved in a footballing decision like that. No doubt an intentional comment from LJ and one that maybe landed him in a bit of hot water.

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14 hours ago, Robbored said:

Jeez..........:disapointed2se: this thread.........:facepalm:

Full wild speculation and conjecture that adds up to bugger all.

So LJ and Macca had a spate - so what? Surely that’s a sign of respect between them? Doesn’t anybody argue with their manager? I know I did.....and I had a long and successful career. It means nothing.....other than they disagree on on maybe tactics and/or substitutions.........:dunno:

Im delighted they had a disagreement! 

I'm with you on the tediousness of the conspiracy theories, Evil Twin, but I think the word you were searching for is "spat".

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17 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Personally I was not at all happy with SL's intervention regarding Semenyo and I do wonder if the management team felt similarly. We were in for some top strikers at the start of January yet after Palmer signed there were very little rumours in regard to who we were bringing in and I assume that means we were never really close to signing one. To have some ambitious targets at the start of the month, and ending it with being told by the club's owner (who isn't even supposed to be involved in the day-to-day running of the club) that you have to make do with a 19 year old that has been playing in L2 must have been disappointing for the management team. 

 I believe it was LJ that was the one who said SL had played a big part in Semenyo being recalled as well. I seriously doubt whether SL/the club would have been particularly happy with him inferring that SL was involved in a footballing decision like that. No doubt an intentional comment from LJ and one that maybe landed him in a bit of hot water.

Did SL not step in more in terms of demanding we reject Chelsea's advances rather than demanding we start using Semenyo? 

We were still after Hogan despite getting Semenyo, so I dunno if Semenyo was kept around instead of getting in a striker.

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I'm with you on the tediousness of the conspiracy theories, Evil Twin, but I think the word you were searching for is "spat".

A simple misspelling RR..........no big deal.

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24 minutes ago, Robbored said:

A simple misspelling RR..........no big deal.

Eezily dun, mayt!   ;)

BTW Wasn't Lee chasing a "name" striker right until the evening of transfer deadline day?

Doesn't that suggest recalling Semenyo three days before wasn't intended to be the end of our search for a new man up front? 

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32 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Did SL not step in more in terms of demanding we reject Chelsea's advances rather than demanding we start using Semenyo? 

We were still after Hogan despite getting Semenyo, so I dunno if Semenyo was kept around instead of getting in a striker.

IIRC Johnson said something along the lines of "the owner suggested we bring him back and have a proper look at him" 

As @Kid in the Riot said - I doubt very much that SL was pleased to be "outed" like that. To me that seemed like a clear message upwards from LJ. SL has also been quite outspoken about the Leeds sypgate debacle and the possibility of ringfencing the Rugby Premiership. Maybe he'd be best advised to keep his own counsel nowadays. 

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15 hours ago, Robbored said:

Jeez..........:disapointed2se: this thread.........:facepalm:

Full wild speculation and conjecture that adds up to bugger all.

So LJ and Macca had a spate - so what? Surely that’s a sign of respect between them? Doesn’t anybody argue with their manager? I know I did.....and I had a long and successful career. It means nothing.....other than they disagree on on maybe tactics and/or substitutions.........:dunno:

Im delighted they had a disagreement! 

In front of 22000 people?

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3 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

In front of 22000 people?

I was there and never saw anything. To busy watching the match.

So adjust that figure to 21,999.

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LJ is not in a bad position right now. His stock is definitely rising at the moment giving him options.

If we get in the play-offs it should help him in negotiating a new contract.

If we don’t he can go to Steve and say “well I did tell you we needed an experienced striker so if you want me to give it another go then you need to back my judgement, otherwise I’m off’.

Of course he might just take us up from the play-offs and then it’s a name his price scenario and we can order his statue to go alongside big John’s.

As an aside it was interesting to note that Alan Nixon when asked about him a few days ago said ‘he knows when to move’. A cryptic hint maybe or just based on past evidence ?

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4 hours ago, Robbored said:

Sacked you mean.

Mutual contsent is announced to avoid embarrassment for the manager and shame for the club. Most clubs do the same.

1. Hence the inverted commas.

2. Such prolixity about that which is manifestly ostensible.

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16 hours ago, Robbored said:

Jeez..........:disapointed2se: this thread.........:facepalm:

Full wild speculation and conjecture that adds up to bugger all.

So LJ and Macca had a spate - so what? Surely that’s a sign of respect between them? Doesn’t anybody argue with their manager? I know I did.....and I had a long and successful career. It means nothing.....other than they disagree on on maybe tactics and/or substitutions.........:dunno:

Im delighted they had a disagreement! 

image.png.78755e93430aaad6cb179239d13af47a.png

Page 66 - Marinovic's bungled clearance

Page 83 - The Memorial Ground, Horfield

Page 104 - Ian "Skeletor" Hollowhead

 

 

Edited by Bazooka Joe

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In all honestly, I think it's as simple as one and/or two problems:

  1. Our style of play is tiring on our players, and they inevitably burn out mid-way through the season trying to keep that performance going.
  2. There is a leadership void in the playing team, and when we hit a bad patch the players cannot dig themselves out

#1 has been my running theory for a long time, and it matches with our we're doing at the moment. We burn out around the same time each season, except this year where we have a larger squad, and we've lasted a bit longer.

I also think #2 is a problem, since we've got a very young squad that struggles to handle the mental pressures of pushing for promotion, and for digging themselves out of negative performances.

I actually think LJ is doing a good job, and quite frankly a change in manager won't change our fortunes if this is the issue.

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13 hours ago, westonred said:

We all know what the problem is, we wont spend big to achieve the dream. We always try and do it on the cheap this must really get LJ down.  If we had brought Tammy Abraham back in the summer (it was reported that he would loved to have come back) then i honestly think we would have been comfortably top 3. Sometimes you need to splash the cash and Tammy wouldn't have been a risk as we know his DNA is right for the club as MA would say, he loves the club, the fans love him and he will get you 20 to 30 goals a season.

No Brainer really

Spot on but cannot see it ever happening with SL calling the tune. So we get in amongst it and then fall away. So we know we won't sign Kalas and will get more Marley Watkins or ones for the future like Liam Walsh. And not address the problems areas. Quantity not quality. 

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21 hours ago, CodeRed said:

What's a spate ?

It's a spade with a D handle, instead of a spate with a T handle. Lanes dictionary extraordinaire

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10 hours ago, Suffolkcity said:

I like LJ, I think on limited resources he's doing a good job. Problem is I feel us fans are more ambitious than the club and our levels of expectation are high. I also feel LJ is more ambitious than the job, a bit like Cotts was. They know to get out this league you need 3/4 players of quality, and you're better off buying proven quality and building a squad around those players. Sadly unless those players are possibly available on loan, those upstairs wont allow  the manager to try and sign that sort of player and have to hope they can pull a rough diamond out, or buy a player who is OK at this level and maybe been under performing at another club and hope it all clicks into place here and they become the quality we need. Sadly it seldom works that way and in the meantime any quality players we have are sold to bigger clubs to fund the next rough diamond hunting mission.  I would not be surprised if LJ was getting frustrated and again in January was left majorly frustrated as it's he who gets it from the fans, when in reality I'm sure he would have loved to have gone out and spent 10m on two quality players that we needed but weren't allowed to.

So if there is genuine interest from West Brom or Fulham I would not be surprised to see him jump ship, as he may feel he has done all he can here under the budget given, and knows that at either of those other clubs he can implement what he knows can be a successful formula, providing you are given the tools to achieve it and it would not surprise me if these clubs have noticed this also. 

The question is, does Lansdown if Johnson leaves in the summer, decide to promote JM, get in a foreign coach or perhaps do something sensible like ring up Warnock after he leaves Cardiff in the summer which I feel he will if they go down or stay up, and say how about one more one year job, and get us promoted. 

He has a wage bill similar to  Leeds (players not coach...)and greater than  Sheffield United. Resources are not that bad if you use them well. It also will not be far off Norwich after they reshaped to cope with their first year without parachute payments.

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