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Balon G'urt  

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Wouldn't describe either as greatest of all time, but certainly up there with current players 

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Messi is the more talented footballer imo, Ronaldo is the greater athlete. 

That being said I've always held the mantra that we should just enjoy them both while they are around instead of picking one. Two outstanding footballers who are up there with the greatest of all time

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George Best was the greatest player of all time.  

Can you even imagine what he could of done in today’s football with Lovely pitches and semi-contact rules!?

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1 minute ago, REDOXO said:

George Best was the greatest player of all time.  

Can you even imagine what he could of done in today’s football with Lovely pitches and semi-contact rules!?

Personally too young to ever see Best play, the points about pitches and lack of contact in the modern game are valid but would his off pitch antics ever allow him to make it in todays game where even the current City players live a very professional lifestyle to compete in the 2nd tier?

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Pele :

3 World Cups

77 goals in 92 appeatanxrs for Brazil.

650 goals in 694 for Santos and Cosmos.

Edited by Calculus
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6 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

George Best was the greatest player of all time.  

Can you even imagine what he could of done in today’s football with Lovely pitches and semi-contact rules!?

Too young to see him play too, but when drawing comparisons to old players, they have to be considered within their era. 

Given the opportunity in today's game, I'm sure George Best would have been right up there. But I can't see him getting much change out of a Kompany, Ramos or Webdini if he's still half cut from the night before. It's now a professional sport to the last detail - all fine margins. 

Its like comparing rugby players. Most of which from before the professional game would be shitting ribs after one hit from your average player these days. 

Still they could only beat what was in front of them, which is what Messi and Ronaldo continue to do. Think we're spoilt to see them both at the same time - their records are just outrageous. Ronaldo edges it for me for his range of goals, but the bloke is a total helmet. 

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15 minutes ago, Calculus said:

Pele :

3 World Cups

77 goals in 92 appeatanxrs for Brazil.

650 goals in 694 for Santos and Cosmos.

The Brazil team that Pele played in was far greater whem compared to its rivals at the time that any of the Argentine sides Messi has played in which have been competitive at best. 

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Just now, ExiledAjax said:

Yes Ajax. Proper football club. 

Great to see them back.

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29 minutes ago, harrys said:

Messi is far and away the greatest ever and yes I did see George Best play

That ain’t comparing like for like - the state of pitches, interpretations of rules etc, have all changed. Messi wouldn’t have survived back in the day, yet Best would have absolutely thrived in today’s watered-down version of football ...

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45 minutes ago, Calculus said:

Pele :

3 World Cups

77 goals in 92 appeatanxrs for Brazil.

650 goals in 694 for Santos and Cosmos.

and all with a limp dick!

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56 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

Personally too young to ever see Best play, the points about pitches and lack of contact in the modern game are valid but would his off pitch antics ever allow him to make it in todays game where even the current City players live a very professional lifestyle to compete in the 2nd tier?

Again fair point. But the culture was different. Osgood Chivers Marsh all great players but post war 60s 70s Football was all birds beer and fags andthat would apply to a lot more than the players mentioned  

If George was playing today the chances are he would be part of the existing culture. He was then just a little more cultured than others! 

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17 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

That ain’t comparing like for like - the state of pitches, interpretations of rules etc, have all changed. Messi wouldn’t have survived back in the day, yet Best would have absolutely thrived in today’s watered-down version of football ...

It's all relative, and Messi is up against far more athletic and technically accomplished defenders than Best ever was. I've seen a lot of Best clips and agree he was a magician, but there's a radical difference between scoring a bunch of lovely individual goals over a few seasons, and doing it week in week out over 12 years.

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59 minutes ago, deadredfred said:

Too young to see him play too, but when drawing comparisons to old players, they have to be considered within their era. 

Given the opportunity in today's game, I'm sure George Best would have been right up there. But I can't see him getting much change out of a Kompany, Ramos or Webdini if he's still half cut from the night before. It's now a professional sport to the last detail - all fine margins. 

Its like comparing rugby players. Most of which from before the professional game would be shitting ribs after one hit from your average player these days. 

Still they could only beat what was in front of them, which is what Messi and Ronaldo continue to do. Think we're spoilt to see them both at the same time - their records are just outrageous. Ronaldo edges it for me for his range of goals, but the bloke is a total helmet. 

See my comment above in response to Dolman Stand

Edited by REDOXO

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11 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

It's all relative, and Messi is up against far more athletic and technically accomplished defenders than Best ever was. I've seen a lot of Best clips and agree he was a magician, but there's a radical difference between scoring a bunch of lovely individual goals over a few seasons, and doing it week in week out over 12 years.

“A few seasons” ??!!! Best played 705 games - and Messi has played for longer than 12 years (15 years) yet he’s only played 6 games more than Best at this point ... and Best had zero protection from defenders kicking lumps out of him....whilst Messi has enjoyed flourishing in an era when every slight touch is an infringement...

Edited by BS4 on Tour...
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33 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

That ain’t comparing like for like - the state of pitches, interpretations of rules etc, have all changed. Messi wouldn’t have survived back in the day, yet Best would have absolutely thrived in today’s watered-down version of football ...

Why wouldn’t he?

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1 hour ago, Calculus said:

Pele :

3 World Cups

77 goals in 92 appeatanxrs for Brazil.

650 goals in 694 for Santos and Cosmos.

Interesting Pele has been quoted several times saying George was the best football player in the world at that time!

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/pele-belfast-boy-george-best-was-brazilian-29123463.html

Edited by REDOXO

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1 minute ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Why wouldn’t he?

Fair point .... I just don’t think anyone can credibly compare players from vastly different eras .... as I said, pitches, rules, etc have all changed so much - it’s impossible to tell ...

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5 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

“A few seasons” ??!!! Best played 705 games - and Messi has played for longer than 12 years (15 years) yet he’s only played 6 games more than Best at this point ... and Best had zero protection from defenders kicking lumps out of him....whilst Messi has enjoyed flourishing in an era when every slight touch is an infringement...

All about opinions, unfortunately i’m Old enough to remember Pele, Best, Cruyff and all the Mavericks of the 70’s but no-one comes close to Messi, my dear old dad used to say that Puskas was far and away the best player he ever saw (after big John of course)

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1 minute ago, harrys said:

All about opinions, unfortunately i’m Old enough to remember Pele, Best, Cruyff and all the Mavericks of the 70’s but no-one comes close to Messi, my dear old dad used to say that Puskas was far and away the best player he ever saw (after big John of course)

You’re right - my dear Dad used to wax lyrical about Di Stefano and Duncan Edwards .... opinions are what makes it great 

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9 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

“A few seasons” ??!!! Best played 705 games - and Messi has played for longer than 12 years (15 years) yet he’s only played 6 games more than Best at this point ... and Best had zero protection from defenders kicking lumps out of him....whilst Messi has enjoyed flourishing in an era when every slight touch is an infringement...

Apart from the 300-odd appearances he made for Man United, Best's career was spent at insignificant clubs. Even at Man United, his goals to games ratio pales in comparison to Messi's. Don't get me wrong, he was still fabulous!

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1 minute ago, AshtonGreat said:

Apart from the 300-odd appearances he made for Man United, Best's career was spent at insignificant clubs. Even at Man United, his goals to games ratio pales in comparison to Messi's. Don't get me wrong, he was still fabulous!

“300-odd” appearances for Man United?! Best played nearly 500 times for Man Yoo .... but I agree with the end of your post....but, different eras, different pitches, different rules - not easy to compare players from vastly different times ....

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Bobby Charlton felt his wasn’t fit too lace Duncan Edwards boots!  So the lad was obviously something special!  George Best has to be in the mix to do what he did on the pitches he played on.  As much as I don’t want to say it, for me Maradona.

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6 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Apart from the 300-odd appearances he made for Man United, Best's career was spent at insignificant clubs. Even at Man United, his goals to games ratio pales in comparison to Messi's. Don't get me wrong, he was still fabulous!

And there in lies the rub. The best player or the best goal scorer? Which are we talking about?

Pele certainly knew who the best player was! 

If you play up front with Dennis Law and Bobby Charlton you May not get as many. 

By the time Tommy Doc took over at Utd George was a hopeless alcoholic. So yes his career was cut short by disease but that’s a different subject. 

Edited by REDOXO

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4 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

“300-odd” appearances for Man United?! Best played nearly 500 times for Man Yoo .... but I agree with the end of your post....but, different eras, different pitches, different rules - not easy to compare players from vastly different times ....

Yep, always impossible to compare, same as with tennis stars. I think you have to favour the players who have had the discipline to fulfil their potential over those who have not though 

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11 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Messi is both for me

Not for me. Best goal scorer? Well you can take your pick. Messi Ronaldo Pele Rush Lineker even Rooney, for a few. 

All decent forwards. The rest is academic!

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2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Not for me. Best goal scorer? Well you can take your pick. Messi Ronaldo Pele Rush Lineker even Rooney, for a few. 

All decent forwards. The rest is academic!

Best goalscorer can more or less be decided on stats alone. None of the above match Messi

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44 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Why wouldn’t he?

I don't think is so much a question of asking whether Messi would have survived back in Best's day, but more a question of asking how good Best would have been in the modern era.

With modern training methods and the way players are looked after, Best's "lifestyle" would not probably have limited his career at the top the way it did in his day.

Playing on modern manicure pitches, in perfect condition right through the season, wearing modern, light weight boots and with the protection now afforded skilful players by the modern interpretation of rules and penalising of almost any physical contact, Best would have been the equal of Messi and Ronaldo, and especially if he was playing in a team stuffed full of the best players in the world.

Edited by downendcity

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Just now, AshtonGreat said:

Best goalscorer can more or less be decided on stats alone. None of the above match Messi

Well there we are then!

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1 minute ago, AshtonGreat said:

P.s. Ian Rush's record is surprisingly crap

Well there we are then. Guess he’s out!

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5 minutes ago, downendcity said:

I don't think is so much a question of asking whether Messi would have survived back in Best's day, but more a question of asking how good Best would have been in the modern era.

With modern training methods and the way players are looked after, Best's "lifestyle" would not probably have limited his career at the top the way it did in his day.

Playing on modern manicure pitches, in perfect condition right through the season, wearing modern, light weight boots and with the protection now afforded skilful players by the modern interpretation of rules and penalising of almost any physical contact, Best would have been the equal of Messi and Ronaldo, and especially if he was playing in a team stuffed full of the best players in the world.

I would totally argue the opposite. Had Best been an alcoholic in today's game, he'd have played in the Championship at best

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Current era - Messi

Past era’s - Pele, followed by Johnan Cruyff

Football has changed in many ways over the decades so comparing past greats with current greats is an impossible ask.

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1 minute ago, AshtonGreat said:

I would totally argue the opposite. Had Best been an alcoholic in today's game, he'd have played in the Championship at best

Best was an alcoholic from his very first drink. Same had he been around today.

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3 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I would totally argue the opposite. Had Best been an alcoholic in today's game, he'd have played in the Championship at best

As I said earlier different days different cultures. If Messi had not been taken to Barcelona from Argentina as a kid and born in the 40s he may have been an alcoholic who knows....

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