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Bristol Rovers Dustbin Thread


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11 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Loss for year: £3m less £0.9m write off of all the UWE stuff = £2.1m of which £0.3m interest.

Closing debt (note 23) £8.6m up from £7.2m.  Lots of other creditors up which will unwind into the debt when paid off.

Their losses in the last two years will I guess have been slightly improved due to the sales of Bodin and Taylor. To achieve a similar level of loss in the current year presumably they'll need to sell for a similar fee Harrison or well, a tent? Failure to sell will further weaken their financial position?

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1 hour ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Their losses in the last two years will I guess have been slightly improved due to the sales of Bodin and Taylor. To achieve a similar level of loss in the current year presumably they'll need to sell for a similar fee Harrison or well, a tent? Failure to sell will further weaken their financial position?

How much did their sprinklers cost..? Oh and don’t forget that lovely new pitch of theirs..! 

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15 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Okay, finally gone through the accounts.  Apologies if repeating previous posts.

Loss for year: £3m less £0.9m write off of all the UWE stuff = £2.1m of which £0.3m interest.

Closing debt (note 23) £8.6m up from £7.2m.  Lots of other creditors up which will unwind into the debt when paid off.

The facility Dwane Sports has provided was £10m, secured against the ground, but this is now raised to £15m.

This is all at 30 June 2017.

So roll it forward to the edn of this season; another loss of £2.1m so debt at 30 June 2018 is £10.7m of which only £10m is secured (tallies with the out of secured money by March which we thought).

The raising of the RCF to £15m suggests the owners will now fund, at risk as there's no further security, two more seasons taking the debt to £15m of which they are £5m at risk.

The pre-emption rights waiver suggests that there will also be capital injections which is effectvely money written off.

So it looks like they are risking another £5m to fund the next two seasons.  I struggle to see the point of that if they intend to sell (far better just to sell now) so it's watch this space.  I can understand why Sir Steve funds City because he has a vision for the club and Bristol sport in general.  Why they wish to set fire to £5m does escape me.

Would there be real benefit in extending the facility to be a proportionately large creditor in order to have greater control on any admin/insolvency process? 

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1 hour ago, 29AR said:

Would there be real benefit in extending the facility to be a proportionately large creditor in order to have greater control on any admin/insolvency process? 

Yes you'd get more of a vote when it comes to a voting on a creditors' arrangement but by that point you'd be another £5m down so that would be an unusual way to look at it.

All that I can think is that they have a plan to get a new ground or substantially improve the current one and they think that this will then substantially improve the selling price of the club so they will get their money back with profit that way.

I suppose it's possible - spend a few quid get a shiny new stadium and promotion to the championship and then try to sell for £20m - £30m and recoup their debt with a small profit.

At £2m annual operating loss before spending anything on the new or renovated ground it all seems wildly optimistic to me.

Still, the can has been kicked down the road for two years so the excitement's over. For now.

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18 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Okay, finally gone through the accounts.  Apologies if repeating previous posts.

Loss for year: £3m less £0.9m write off of all the UWE stuff = £2.1m of which £0.3m interest.

Closing debt (note 23) £8.6m up from £7.2m.  Lots of other creditors up which will unwind into the debt when paid off.

The facility Dwane Sports has provided was £10m, secured against the ground, but this is now raised to £15m.

This is all at 30 June 2017.

So roll it forward to the edn of this season; another loss of £2.1m so debt at 30 June 2018 is £10.7m of which only £10m is secured (tallies with the out of secured money by March which we thought).

The raising of the RCF to £15m suggests the owners will now fund, at risk as there's no further security, two more seasons taking the debt to £15m of which they are £5m at risk.

The pre-emption rights waiver suggests that there will also be capital injections which is effectvely money written off.

So it looks like they are risking another £5m to fund the next two seasons.  I struggle to see the point of that if they intend to sell (far better just to sell now) so it's watch this space.  I can understand why Sir Steve funds City because he has a vision for the club and Bristol sport in general.  Why they wish to set fire to £5m does escape me.

Could the extra £5m be secured against other property? I haven't had the chance to go through it all myself but wonder if the Colony has been used (although I originally thought Dwayne Sports purchased that not BRFC). If it is £15m against the Mem that looks absurd given Sainsbury's pulled out of their proposed £12m purchase because it was no longer affordable - not sure who could value that land with an extra 25% on top. 

Am I also right in thinking that the interest is being paid to the owners/Dwayne Sport so the owners are taking £0.3m out each year plus any salaries/dividends for directors/shareholders. I wonder if the £5m could be the approximate value of the funds they would have taken out of the club by the end of the next two years, in which case there isn't much of a risk: £5m in payments (over several years) and £10 secured on the Mem. 

Would appreciate your thoughts on the above as you clearly have a better grasp of this than I do.

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1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Yes you'd get more of a vote when it comes to a voting on a creditors' arrangement but by that point you'd be another £5m down so that would be an unusual way to look at it.

All that I can think is that they have a plan to get a new ground or substantially improve the current one and they think that this will then substantially improve the selling price of the club so they will get their money back with profit that way.

I suppose it's possible - spend a few quid get a shiny new stadium and promotion to the championship and then try to sell for £20m - £30m and recoup their debt with a small profit.

At £2m annual operating loss before spending anything on the new or renovated ground it all seems wildly optimistic to me.

Still, the can has been kicked down the road for two years so the excitement's over. For now.

Specifically I was thinking of achieving 75% of debts by value to be in a very strong position iro creditors' arrangements. 

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1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Ah, you're outside my experience there as I've only had a small vote.

Well they're certainly very likely to have >75%.

It's beyond mine too :)  I just have in mind something about insolvency and liquidation, and in certain cases if 75% of creditors by value agree a measure, they can bind the other creditors. 

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18 minutes ago, 29AR said:

It's beyond mine too :)  I just have in mind something about insolvency and liquidation, and in certain cases if 75% of creditors by value agree a measure, they can bind the other creditors. 

29AR you are a genius as you have  rumbled Wael’s cunning plan. He could go for an Individual Voluntary Arrangement (IVA) which would is a formal and legally-binding agreement between someone and their creditors to pay back debts over a period of time.

Not all the creditors have to agree, for the proposal to be accepted. The proposal is accepted if more than 75 per cent (by value) of the creditors who vote or are represented at the meeting vote in favour.  It is based on the value of the debts owed.

Wael / Dwane Sports could vote for a plan that is terrible for other creditors, assuming that there are any other creditors. 

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It would be a CVA mate.... apologies for being a smart arse.

Would make no obvious sense in this context.

An equity investment could have been made as it could be more tax efficient and further debt (loans) to an entity with no reasonable prospect of repayment, may be v difficult to justify on a corporate level.

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32 minutes ago, red'tili'mdead said:

It would be a CVA mate.... apologies for being a smart arse.

Would make no obvious sense in this context.

An equity investment could have been made as it could be more tax efficient and further debt (loans) to an entity with no reasonable prospect of repayment, may be v difficult to justify on a corporate level.

Ah cheers. Every day is a school day. 

2 hours ago, pongo88 said:

29AR you are a genius as you have  rumbled Wael’s cunning plan. He could go for an Individual Voluntary Arrangement (IVA) which would is a formal and legally-binding agreement between someone and their creditors to pay back debts over a period of time.

Not all the creditors have to agree, for the proposal to be accepted. The proposal is accepted if more than 75 per cent (by value) of the creditors who vote or are represented at the meeting vote in favour.  It is based on the value of the debts owed.

Wael / Dwane Sports could vote for a plan that is terrible for other creditors, assuming that there are any other creditors. 

Haha I wasn't sure what tree I was barking up, or if it would have made sense in any case. All I saw was the propotion of DS debts v total debts, remembered something significant about 75% of creditors, and by cruel fate I now must admit my fractions are crap too :facepalm:

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4 hours ago, BrightCiderLife said:

If it is £15m against the Mem that looks absurd given Sainsbury's pulled out of their proposed £12m purchase because it was no longer affordable - not sure who could value that land with an extra 25% on top. 

Sainsbury had agreed to pay around £30m for the land as far as I recall. Far more than its true value probably, but £15m might well be a fair price for a prime residential plot in that location. 

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15 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Another belter from @Cheesleysmate

 

If the Sags didn’t know already.....It’s all gonna take time and a bit more time.....jokers. George got it right though....”It’s gonna take money, a whole lotta spending money, it’s gonna take plenty of money”....eh Hani?

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46 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

If the Sags didn’t know already.....It’s all gonna take time and a bit more time.....jokers. George got it right though....”It’s gonna take money, a whole lotta spending money, it’s gonna take plenty of money”....eh Hani?

So, any idea on timescale? 

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1 hour ago, City Rocker said:

So, any idea on timescale? 

I can’t give any timescales in case people realise that we haven’t got tuppence to scratch our asses with and decide to headbutt our windscreens and punch a few horses.

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2 hours ago, Cheesleysmate said:

If the Sags didn’t know already.....It’s all gonna take time and a bit more time.....jokers. George got it right though....”It’s gonna take money, a whole lotta spending money, it’s gonna take plenty of money”....eh Hani?

He’s so lovely though..! 

I mean, that smile... and how’s he’s just so open and honest. Lush! 

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1 minute ago, Cheesleysmate said:

OMG, so lovely. The bit where he says “These things take time....as you can seeeeeee”, lovely lovely lovely.

He went on to say “My wife, she is dead. But it’s ok, I have a new wife”. So lovely.

If that one dies as well then he can have mine. 

Have her, borrow her... whatever he likes. 

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On ‎26‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 21:20, Eddie Hitler said:

Okay, finally gone through the accounts.  Apologies if repeating previous posts.

Loss for year: £3m less £0.9m write off of all the UWE stuff = £2.1m of which £0.3m interest.

Closing debt (note 23) £8.6m up from £7.2m.  Lots of other creditors up which will unwind into the debt when paid off.

The facility Dwane Sports has provided was £10m, secured against the ground, but this is now raised to £15m.

This is all at 30 June 2017.

So roll it forward to the edn of this season; another loss of £2.1m so debt at 30 June 2018 is £10.7m of which only £10m is secured (tallies with the out of secured money by March which we thought).

The raising of the RCF to £15m suggests the owners will now fund, at risk as there's no further security, two more seasons taking the debt to £15m of which they are £5m at risk.

The pre-emption rights waiver suggests that there will also be capital injections which is effectvely money written off.

So it looks like they are risking another £5m to fund the next two seasons.  I struggle to see the point of that if they intend to sell (far better just to sell now) so it's watch this space.  I can understand why Sir Steve funds City because he has a vision for the club and Bristol sport in general.  Why they wish to set fire to £5m does escape me.

Well done the CSF! :city:

* City Scrutiny Firm

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