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WAHGS.

Mo Eisa signed for Peterborough (Merged)

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1 hour ago, WAHGS. said:

Sounds like he’s off. SPL mentioned, champ clubs coming up. 

Anyone think we’ll recoup what we paid for him?

Probably devalued a bit... but if Kelly is 13m.... who knows?!?

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13 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

I’d be confident that we would get the £800k that we paid back

£800k?

£1.5m???

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13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

£800k?

£1.5m???

£800k last summer with £200k due this summer. Only ever going to reach £1.5m if/when we reach the Prem

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25 minutes ago, Peter Coles said:

not according to LJ Dave £800k plus £200k add on

Was that on Twentyman?

If so, I’ll amend my spreadsheet.  Funny he knows Mo’s fee but not Lloyd’s 👀

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9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Was that on Twentyman?

If so, I’ll amend my spreadsheet.  Funny he knows Mo’s fee but not Lloyd’s 👀

Just listened. No mention. Therefore the widely reported £1.5m stays in the spreadsheet!!!

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I think that there is a good chance that we recoup the fee by what LJ said last night. Despite not going out on loan he feels we have certainly improved the player. As with Vyner the problem is the club has moved to another level so whereas Championship level was the original intention now it’s higher.

That also means other clubs know that good players will because of that become surplus to our requirements but at the same time have improved whilst with us. Any Championship/League One club in for Eisa will know they won’t come cheap as we are now running a production line akin to more successful clubs.

There are exceptions of course but for a League 1/Championship ready player recouping the money whether in upfront fee, add-ons or sell-ons should generally be no problem. We now rightly see our purchases on players as investments whether or not they make the grade with us.

With that raised level of expectation from management I think we will see a number of players that are at best mid to lower level Championship move on. A couple of million for Matty Taylor for instance would not surprise me, along with decent fees for the Vyner/Taylor Moore level players. Trading players successfully is now what we do, which is where Mark Ashton must take much of the credit, as should Steve Lansdown who made his fortune from investments and could see a long term plan rather than unsustainable short term success.

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Just listened. No mention. Therefore the widely reported £1.5m stays in the spreadsheet!!!

The 24-year-old is yet to start a Championship match for City since joining them from Cheltenham last July in a deal worth £800,000 up front, with another £200,000 due this summer - a record fee received for the League Two club. - https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-boss-lee-johnson-2889696

That's from Jon Palmer who broke the story of Eisa joining us, mate.

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8 minutes ago, BessexRED said:

The 24-year-old is yet to start a Championship match for City since joining them from Cheltenham last July in a deal worth £800,000 up front, with another £200,000 due this summer - a record fee received for the League Two club. - https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-boss-lee-johnson-2889696

That's from Jon Palmer who broke the story of Eisa joining us, mate.

Ta. The spreadsheet can now be updated. 😀

That’s a much more sensible fee imho. 

Edited by Davefevs
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14 hours ago, WAHGS. said:

Sounds like he’s off. SPL mentioned, champ clubs coming up. 

Anyone think we’ll recoup what we paid for him?

I cannot believe that we will get anything like what we paid for him despite Mo being talked up by LJ.

Probably an "undisclosed fee" deal.

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Am I on my own in being bemused by this. Came with good goal scoring record and plenty of potential and never given a sniff if a chance of establishing himself and now it seems we are going to sell him. I had thought he was being honed this season to be ready for a real go next season. What an awful buy if he is sold without ever being given a chance.

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25 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

Am I on my own in being bemused by this. Came with good goal scoring record and plenty of potential and never given a sniff if a chance of establishing himself and now it seems we are going to sell him. I had thought he was being honed this season to be ready for a real go next season. What an awful buy if he is sold without ever being given a chance.

Maybe he was bought with the goalscoring record in mind, as well as Peterborough supposedly being interested (they have a history of unearthing gems). After a year of watching him closely, training with the first team, it's been decided that he hasn't got enough to make the step up to the next level (LJ said last night we're now looking at players who have the potential/ability to play in the Premiership).

Personally I think he needs to go out on loan in League 1 until Christmas, and then see how he gets on there (which is where he should have gone in January IMO). If he does well then bring him back and play him, or even loan to a lower Champ team. If he doesn't do as well as we hope, then sell him. 

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39 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

Am I on my own in being bemused by this. Came with good goal scoring record and plenty of potential and never given a sniff if a chance of establishing himself and now it seems we are going to sell him. I had thought he was being honed this season to be ready for a real go next season. What an awful buy if he is sold without ever being given a chance.

I see it as us having bought him with the potential in mind, but having watched him training for a full season with Championship players showed himself to not be at the required level we're looking for.  If there was a gulf in class in training then that's only going to be greater in the league.  If he hasn't shown the necessary improvement then we're right to move him on.  For us, now, £1m is not a massive amount of money for a gamble.  They won't all pay off.  

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35 minutes ago, Taz said:

Maybe he was bought with the goalscoring record in mind, as well as Peterborough supposedly being interested (they have a history of unearthing gems). After a year of watching him closely, training with the first team, it's been decided that he hasn't got enough to make the step up to the next level (LJ said last night we're now looking at players who have the potential/ability to play in the Premiership).

Personally I think he needs to go out on loan in League 1 until Christmas, and then see how he gets on there (which is where he should have gone in January IMO). If he does well then bring him back and play him, or even loan to a lower Champ team. If he doesn't do as well as we hope, then sell him. 

Should've gone on on loan in January to Charlton if the link was true- would have made sense on a lot of levels IMO.

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2 hours ago, Steve Watts said:

I see it as us having bought him with the potential in mind, but having watched him training for a full season with Championship players showed himself to not be at the required level we're looking for.  If there was a gulf in class in training then that's only going to be greater in the league.  If he hasn't shown the necessary improvement then we're right to move him on.  For us, now, £1m is not a massive amount of money for a gamble.  They won't all pay off.  

£1 m not a massive amount. So we can afford to chuck a million down the drain. And lets add the million for Watkins,Walsh who hardly plays, etc, etc. I would have thought with SL seemingly adopting a cautious approach to transfer spending that million here there wasted on players who are judged not good enough is an amount that could have gone towards a more experienced and talented player.

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3 hours ago, Steve Watts said:

I see it as us having bought him with the potential in mind, but having watched him training for a full season with Championship players showed himself to not be at the required level we're looking for.  If there was a gulf in class in training then that's only going to be greater in the league.  If he hasn't shown the necessary improvement then we're right to move him on.  For us, now, £1m is not a massive amount of money for a gamble.  They won't all pay off.  

That's the only reason I can think of but if they scouted him they'd have seen any massive weakness. Maybe he's just not a good trainer like some players have been but come match day they perform 

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I haven't heard the interview but did LJ say he was being transferred out or is it possibly just a loan?

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3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Should've gone on on loan in January to Charlton if the link was true- would have made sense on a lot of levels IMO.

It was ridiculous he did not go there. He was never going to get a game with us. Even if we'd had injuries he probably would have gone with Watkins or Semenyo ahead of Eisa.

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Johnson clearly did not want Eisa. Just before we signed him Johnson said something like 'there might be one or two club signings and that will be about it.' Club signings? Surely that means done by the club and not him. It is a strange one.

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Someone was linking him to Peterborough earlier in the thread, is there a definite link or is that just speculation?

The reason I ask, is could Eisa be part of a make weight for Ivan Toney? Was obviously highly thought of as a youngster, enough so for Newcastle to take a gamble on him. He scored falls fair few in League One this past season so could he now be ready to take the next step up? We trade someone who could do it in League Two for someone who has now done it in League One?

It could be someone that comes in as a bit more of punt but without the out & out pressure of being expected to be a starter, as someone who could push Matt Taylor a little further down the pecking order without likely costing us a fortune in terms of a deal.

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4 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

Someone was linking him to Peterborough earlier in the thread, is there a definite link or is that just speculation?

The reason I ask, is could Eisa be part of a make weight for Ivan Toney? Was obviously highly thought of as a youngster, enough so for Newcastle to take a gamble on him. He scored falls fair few in League One this past season so could he now be ready to take the next step up? We trade someone who could do it in League Two for someone who has now done it in League One?

It could be someone that comes in as a bit more of punt but without the out & out pressure of being expected to be a starter, as someone who could push Matt Taylor a little further down the pecking order without likely costing us a fortune in terms of a deal.

The championship is such a massive step up in class from lg 1&2. It's very rare that any of them make the grade; especially with forwards. I don't see Toney as top end championship material, and as LJ has said maybe our targets have moved from lower end championship to competing in the top 10 consistently. Hence why he knows now that Eisa fundamentally won't be good enough.

Rather than buy yet another "one for the future" from the lower leagues. I'd rather we tried to get another Tammy.  It worked for Huddesfield, and Derbys loans this year on the whole have been excellent as well.

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11 minutes ago, ncnsbcfc said:

The championship is such a massive step up in class from lg 1&2. It's very rare that any of them make the grade; especially with forwards. I don't see Toney as top end championship material, and as LJ has said maybe our targets have moved from lower end championship to competing in the top 10 consistently. Hence why he knows now that Eisa fundamentally won't be good enough.

Rather than buy yet another "one for the future" from the lower leagues. I'd rather we tried to get another Tammy.  It worked for Huddesfield, and Derbys loans this year on the whole have been excellent as well.

Sorry, Where did it work for Huddersfield? Their top scorer was signed in January from League One Charlton Athletic & did alright in the Premier League (compared to their other strikers).

I’m not advocating that Toney will be who we are depending on to take Diedhiou’s place, I’m saying that it could be a way of improving our squad while allowing someone else to move on without destroying the budget.

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2 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

Sorry, Where did it work for Huddersfield? Their top scorer was signed in January from League One Charlton Athletic & did alright in the Premier League (compared to their other strikers).

I’m not advocating that Toney will be who we are depending on to take Diedhiou’s place, I’m saying that it could be a way of improving our squad while allowing someone else to move on without destroying the budget.

When they got promoted from the championship. Had 5/6 quality loans.

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28 minutes ago, ncnsbcfc said:

When they got promoted from the championship. Had 5/6 quality loans.

And a lot of German influence on the squad, do we have enough knowledge of the German game? I’d suggest that people may turn their noses up after our last couple of arrivals from Germany.

I’d be shocked if we relied heavily on the loan market, the club want to become self sufficient & show that there is that pathway to the first team for our own academy products so paying the bigger clubs for the players with the talent of JDS & Kalas & then in theory another 3 or so players would become expensive for one seasons benefit.

I can see us possibly getting 2 loans in to protect us but I honestly think the blueprint is set for permanent signings on the whole & to improve the squad. Can I see Eisa & Taylor leaving & us bringing in 2 new strikers to go ahead of Diedhiou? No I can’t although Semenyo could save us the need to replace one of Eisa or Taylor? And a lot could depend on who the Premier League clubs see worthy of loaning out & to who, as the new loan rules will definitely stop the likes of Chelsea loaning out the village of players they have previously sent out year on year.

So could that hamper us or the likes of Villa / Derby? If Villa don’t go up they are going to be in a right mess I’d suggest because of their FFP situation & their reliance on the loan market over the last couple of seasons.

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14 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

And a lot of German influence on the squad, do we have enough knowledge of the German game? I’d suggest that people may turn their noses up after our last couple of arrivals from Germany.

I’d be shocked if we relied heavily on the loan market, the club want to become self sufficient & show that there is that pathway to the first team for our own academy products so paying the bigger clubs for the players with the talent of JDS & Kalas & then in theory another 3 or so players would become expensive for one seasons benefit.

I can see us possibly getting 2 loans in to protect us but I honestly think the blueprint is set for permanent signings on the whole & to improve the squad. Can I see Eisa & Taylor leaving & us bringing in 2 new strikers to go ahead of Diedhiou? No I can’t although Semenyo could save us the need to replace one of Eisa or Taylor? And a lot could depend on who the Premier League clubs see worthy of loaning out & to who, as the new loan rules will definitely stop the likes of Chelsea loaning out the village of players they have previously sent out year on year.

So could that hamper us or the likes of Villa / Derby? If Villa don’t go up they are going to be in a right mess I’d suggest because of their FFP situation & their reliance on the loan market over the last couple of seasons.

I reckon last season was a bit of a wake up call for the club with regard to the quality of loans.

It's the first time in a while I can remember 3 Of them being on the pitch at one time, and you could see the positive effect it had on the rest of the team.

I think the thing with loans is that they can be hit or miss. But in the championship now, they are seen as a cheaper invaluable part of team building; due to the massive hike in transfer fees and wages. Plus of course, if they don't work they're going back to their parent clubs anyhow.

I reckon at least 2-3 incoming now, and another couple on Jan. Depending on where we are.

Can't always go cap in hand to Chelsea though. 

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11 minutes ago, ncnsbcfc said:

I reckon last season was a bit of a wake up call for the club with regard to the quality of loans.

It's the first time in a while I can remember 3 Of them being on the pitch at one time, and you could see the positive effect it had on the rest of the team.

I think the thing with loans is that they can be hit or miss. But in the championship now, they are seen as a cheaper invaluable part of team building; due to the massive hike in transfer fees and wages. Plus of course, if they don't work they're going back to their parent clubs anyhow.

I reckon at least 2-3 incoming now, and another couple on Jan. Depending on where we are.

Can't always go cap in hand to Chelsea though. 

I fully agree and have been saying it for a few years now. I think we missed a massive trick in the summer of 2015 not trying to pack our squad out with some quality loans rather than chucking £9m at players with £40k p/w wage demands, we were a young, attacking side that would’ve been an attractive proposition for clubs to send their players to. The next year we signed Abraham, which worked out perfectly.

If you take Derby for an example — previous overspenders in this league... go and appoint Frank Lampard. Would Derby have appointed a name like this without knowing the contacts he has and what would be available to them on the cheap? I don’t think so, and you have to question without Tomori, Mount and Wilson where they’d be this season, and they’ve been cost Derby pennies in comparison to rubbish previously spent multi million pounds on like Blackman, Camara, Butterfield etc.

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17 hours ago, Redrascal2 said:

£1 m not a massive amount. So we can afford to chuck a million down the drain. And lets add the million for Watkins,Walsh who hardly plays, etc, etc. I would have thought with SL seemingly adopting a cautious approach to transfer spending that million here there wasted on players who are judged not good enough is an amount that could have gone towards a more experienced and talented player.

I agree, we do not have that luxury with our income levels, the cumulative spending on these players equates easily to the Reid fee. We had to sell last summer to balance this type of spending, it is a luxury we cannot afford unless we really feel they are going to be troubling the first team very very soon. (Bradley Dack/Kemer Roofe types) or spend  bigger fees on a player like DaSIlva . I think the LJ comments are very in line with that , less quantity more quality. Of course LJ would also prefer to still have Reid/Kelly and Bryan as they would be the core of a Prem potential side. He cannot keep losing those type  players and build a serious promotion chasing side. 

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9 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

I agree, we do not have that luxury with our income levels, the cumulative spending on these players equates easily to the Reid fee. We had to sell last summer to balance this type of spending, it is a luxury we cannot afford unless we really feel they are going to be troubling the first team very very soon. (Bradley Dack/Kemer Roofe types) or spend  bigger fees on a player like DaSIlva . I think the LJ comments are very in line with that , less quantity more quality. Of course LJ would also prefer to still have Reid/Kelly and Bryan as they would be the core of a Prem potential side. He cannot keep losing those type  players and build a serious promotion chasing side. 

FFP was the reason for summer 2018 and relative restraint in January...the Kelly sale I am a bit disappointed in but I suppose it had to happen- hope it is properly reinvested.

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17 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Johnson clearly did not want Eisa. Just before we signed him Johnson said something like 'there might be one or two club signings and that will be about it.' Club signings? Surely that means done by the club and not him. It is a strange one.

Perhaps he meant "another club in the bag" Someone else used to say that, can't remember who.

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I am pretty sure LJ distanced himself from the Mo Eisa deal because it would be deemed a conflict of interest given his dad was selling him and might have been on % cut. 

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17 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Johnson clearly did not want Eisa. Just before we signed him Johnson said something like 'there might be one or two club signings and that will be about it.' Club signings? Surely that means done by the club and not him. It is a strange one.

‘ club ‘ signings as opposed to first team signings I suppose. 

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1 hour ago, ncnsbcfc said:

I reckon last season was a bit of a wake up call for the club with regard to the quality of loans.

It's the first time in a while I can remember 3 Of them being on the pitch at one time, and you could see the positive effect it had on the rest of the team.

I think the thing with loans is that they can be hit or miss. But in the championship now, they are seen as a cheaper invaluable part of team building; due to the massive hike in transfer fees and wages. Plus of course, if they don't work they're going back to their parent clubs anyhow.

I reckon at least 2-3 incoming now, and another couple on Jan. Depending on where we are.

Can't always go cap in hand to Chelsea though. 

I don’t see it as going ‘ cap in hand ‘ it is a win / win deal for both clubs .

It helps to smooth out negotiations if the two clubs know and trust each other and I’m sure Chelsea don’t see themselves as looking down on little old Bristol City .

We have benefited them with some good loans for their players , notably Tammy’s breakthrough into men’s football.

 

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Thought Eisa was worth the punt at the time. Not been massively expensive and just hasn't worked out. Should've been loaned out tbh 

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3 hours ago, ncnsbcfc said:

I reckon last season was a bit of a wake up call for the club with regard to the quality of loans.

It's the first time in a while I can remember 3 Of them being on the pitch at one time, and you could see the positive effect it had on the rest of the team.

I think the thing with loans is that they can be hit or miss. But in the championship now, they are seen as a cheaper invaluable part of team building; due to the massive hike in transfer fees and wages. Plus of course, if they don't work they're going back to their parent clubs anyhow.

I reckon at least 2-3 incoming now, and another couple on Jan. Depending on where we are.

Can't always go cap in hand to Chelsea though. 

The trouble is, the new loan rules. Clubs can’t go about loaning 30+ players a season now, so they have to decide which players of the restricted bunch will they loan out now & then you have to take into account the relationship between those clubs (affiliates) & are those players that are what we want on their list to be loaned out?

The choice of available players may not be of the required ability for us or they could be seen as being o Premier League quality. It will be a lot tougher to get our preferred loan targets now unless we can get a proper relationship going with one of the big clubs.

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3 hours ago, Sturny said:

Thought Eisa was worth the punt at the time. Not been massively expensive and just hasn't worked out. Should've been loaned out tbh 

At the time I thought £1.5m was a lot to pay little’ol Cheltenham. Hearing that it was £800k up front and £200k this summer makes it feel better. 

Injury didn’t help him, but also going one up top didn’t either!!!!

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1 hour ago, Tipps69 said:

The trouble is, the new loan rules. Clubs can’t go about loaning 30+ players a season now, so they have to decide which players of the restricted bunch will they loan out now & then you have to take into account the relationship between those clubs (affiliates) & are those players that are what we want on their list to be loaned out?

The choice of available players may not be of the required ability for us or they could be seen as being o Premier League quality. It will be a lot tougher to get our preferred loan targets now unless we can get a proper relationship going with one of the big clubs.

I'm pretty sure (stand to be corrected) that the new loan rules are due to come in summer 2020.

Thus next season would be the last one under the existing rules.

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4 hours ago, ncnsbcfc said:

I'm pretty sure (stand to be corrected) that the new loan rules are due to come in summer 2020.

Thus next season would be the last one under the existing rules.

Correct, but the player’s value to the loaning out club, is this summer.  Next summer without the loan cash-cow some if those players are gonna be significantly lower.  It’s why I don’t think we ‘need’ to pay £9-10m for Kalas (as some suggest), but c£5-6m.

But I’m hoping MA knows this and will calibrate accordingly.

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5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Correct, but the player’s value to the loaning out club, is this summer.  Next summer without the loan cash-cow some if those players are gonna be significantly lower.  It’s why I don’t think we ‘need’ to pay £9-10m for Kalas (as some suggest), but c£5-6m.

But I’m hoping MA knows this and will calibrate accordingly.

One idea which could appeal to all parties subject to Kalas of course and his wishes.

Could split the difference a bit. £1.5-2m loan fee plus wages of course this season, then obligation to buy summer 2020 for said £5-6m fee. 

See this sort of thing in Italian transfer market a fait bit. Many clubs there don't have a lot of cash so naturally have to maximise resources.

Could say Championship due to rising costs combined with a huge TV gap to PL in a simisr position.

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Sounds like we probably got our money back on that one. Best of luck to him.

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