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personally I think the ref should have a red and green button on his/her watch.yes check it,no dont check it sort of thing, then you wouldn't have 20 dick traceys in the background trying to pick fault like in the womens world cup.

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Can we have it retrospective please?

OK, so in 1966 England would have won 3-2, not 4-2.

On the other hand in 1986, after consulting VAR, Maradonna would have been sent off for "deliberate handball and trying to deceive a match official".

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Whilst it should be consistent, the use of VAR in the women's world cup has been farcical. The approach outlined for the Premier league seems more like common sense, although time will tell.

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I do not want the game refereed by geeks with TV cameras. I don't care if a ref and lino make wrong decisions even if only a couple of millimetres involved.

Players make mistakes and so do match officials. Live with the mistakes or the constant delays will make the game a farce of several hours.

Edited by cidered abroad
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1 hour ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Just scrap it, kill it, eradicate it, exterminate it (and those responsible for it) 

It should be there but not to the extent they use it. Been saying for awhile they need to have a challenge system. 

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Utter garbage. Business ruining football. Average of 8 checks per game lasting 29seconds on top of standard injuries subbs and stoppages looking at 10minutes added on. Football is the world moat free flowing fast paced game over such a period. And now its changed for ever.

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2 hours ago, miser said:

Whilst it should be consistent, the use of VAR in the women's world cup has been farcical. The approach outlined for the Premier league seems more like common sense, although time will tell.

Hope that ridiculous if the ball hits the hand, arm, even when you can see the player couldn't possibly get their hand out of the way rule doesn't come in or players will target the opposing players hand or arm rather that bothering to aim for the goal. 

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I’ve tried to keep an open mind about VAR and up to a couple of months ago thought it was a good idea. However, so far I don’t really like what I have seen. 

The women’s World Cup has highlighted how VAR doesn’t always provide a satisfactory answer in some of those marginal decisions (e.g. White’s disallowed goals v the USA and Sweden). Maybe here, though, it’s the laws that are wrong. I assumed that with offside decisions the benefit of the doubt was with the attacking team. It seems ridiculous in such a fast moving game that an attacking player can be given offside because their toe is goal-side.

I also think the way goals are ruled out by VAR to be a bit cruel (and yes I can appreciate it’s also cruel when, without VAR, a team loses yo a goal that clearly shouldn’t have stood). In real time in a game it’s apparent pretty quickly if one of the officials spots an infringement, but with VAR the celebrations have often died down before anyone realises it’s being reviewed. The way that Man City v Tottenham semi-final ended, for example, left me feeling a bit uncomfortable - the way such jubilation turned to despair.

Looking back at our victory v Man Utd, would Smith’s winner have been ruled out by VAR because Reid looked slightly in advance of the last defender when the ball was played to him during the build up? If so would that have been the right decision? And what a horrible decision that would have been. 

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I jeep getting told “it works in rugby”, and I cal bullshit on that, when ever I watch, every try seems to go to the VAR equivalent and everyone waits around for 2 mins whilst they double check all the angles.  The ref in football has to make a split second decision, they get some wrong on occasion true, but most are right, football is a flawed game, that’s what makes it beautiful

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7 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

It should be there but not to the extent they use it. Been saying for awhile they need to have a challenge system. 

Spot on, works an absolute treat in tennis and cricket and actually adds an entertainment aspect to the game without slowing it down. 

Trying to make their own mark and do something different rather than copying already tried and tested systems in other sports has been VAR’s current downfall. 

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Should be at the Re’s discretion end of, anyone trying to force the Ref to check VAR should be carded immediately.

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VAR IS farcical.

There are some decisions that get ignored by VAR just cos they happen outside the box yet were blatant fouls, and some slight touches that would've been ignored anyway cos the ref couldnt see it get referred to VAR.

Its a joke!

I thought VAR was supposed to be equal and see things the on pitch refs missed.... Then explain why nothing was given when a Cameroon player DELIBERATELY pushed that ref or when that ref refused to give England the penalty.... If England got a pen from a tap on the leg vs USA, how was a stamp on the feet by a Cameroonian player any different?

Also (I'm not complaining) but without VAR, that would have been 2-2 when Ellen Whites goal got disallowed due to VAR - Its the way football has been played for over 40yrs since the offside rule was brought in. Some goals may be offside but the linesman (woman in this case) didnt see that. Its swings and roundabouts, goals happened with a margin of offside which can happen to be very small. It in my opinion after this game has adapted to the fact there is an offside rule, has been entertaining, sometimes it in your favour sometimes it isnt. This makes footy exiting. VAR ruins this.

But on the other hand folks.... Im sure people said it was ruining the game when the offside rule was first brought in 40yrs ago, the game will adapt!! (BUT VAR REALLY NEEDS TO IMPROVE WHAT THEY LOOK FOR IN A FOUL AS SOME ARENT CHECKED YET SOME ARE, thats the problem.)

Edited by CrazyInWeston

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VAR = Vacuous Alternative to Refereeing.

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6 hours ago, CrazyInWeston said:

VAR IS farcical.

There are some decisions that get ignored by VAR just cos they happen outside the box yet were blatant fouls, and some slight touches that would've been ignored anyway cos the ref couldnt see it get referred to VAR.

Its a joke!

I thought VAR was supposed to be equal and see things the on pitch refs missed.... Then explain why nothing was given when a Cameroon player DELIBERATELY pushed that ref or when that ref refused to give England the penalty.... If England got a pen from a tap on the leg vs USA, how was a stamp on the feet by a Cameroonian player any different?

Also (I'm not complaining) but without VAR, that would have been 2-2 when Ellen Whites goal got disallowed due to VAR - Its the way football has been played for over 40yrs since the offside rule was brought in. Some goals may be offside but the linesman (woman in this case) didnt see that. Its swings and roundabouts, goals happened with a margin of offside which can happen to be very small. It in my opinion after this game has adapted to the fact there is an offside rule, has been entertaining, sometimes it in your favour sometimes it isnt. This makes footy exiting. VAR ruins this.

But on the other hand folks.... Im sure people said it was ruining the game when the offside rule was first brought in 40yrs ago, the game will adapt!! (BUT VAR REALLY NEEDS TO IMPROVE WHAT THEY LOOK FOR IN A FOUL AS SOME ARENT CHECKED YET SOME ARE, thats the problem.)

I'm just waiting for VAR to be used at every corner and free kick into the box and the penalties that it will thereby identify for defenders holding and shirt pulling.

The again, I don't think I will hold my breath!

What I am anticipating is "good" goals being disallowed for a striker being 0.000000000001mm offside 5 minutes earlier in the build up.

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17 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

I do not want the game refereed by geeks with TV cameras. I don't care if a ref and lino make wrong decisions even if only a couple of millimetres involved.

Players make mistakes and so do match officials. Live with the mistakes or the constant delays will make the game a farce of several hours.

Until players refrain from cheating every 15 seconds then I feel its a necessary evil. 

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9 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

 ref in football has to make a split second decision, they get some wrong on occasion true, but most are right, football is a flawed game, that’s what makes it beautiful

This -  100% agree.  It's ruining the game more than any other development has ever done.

We love football as it is........so please stop effing about with it.

Sky are to blame. in the past mistakes were made, the game carried on, if someone thought someone was a fraction offside it might have been debated over a pint in the pub after for a few minutes and we moved on. Now any hint of a marginal decision on a tv game is seized upon by sky - endless replays and they stir up a was it/wasn't it row between 2 pundits to get some good telly. Sky have highlighted - because it showcases their tech - marginal errors and made the topic uppermost .....because it makes tv pictures central - essential now - to the game and the way it's referreed

A pox on them I say!

Edited by CodeRed
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6 hours ago, CrazyInWeston said:

VAR IS farcical.

There are some decisions that get ignored by VAR just cos they happen outside the box yet were blatant fouls, and some slight touches that would've been ignored anyway cos the ref couldnt see it get referred to VAR.

Its a joke!

I thought VAR was supposed to be equal and see things the on pitch refs missed.... Then explain why nothing was given when a Cameroon player DELIBERATELY pushed that ref or when that ref refused to give England the penalty.... If England got a pen from a tap on the leg vs USA, how was a stamp on the feet by a Cameroonian player any different?

Also (I'm not complaining) but without VAR, that would have been 2-2 when Ellen Whites goal got disallowed due to VAR - Its the way football has been played for over 40yrs since the offside rule was brought in. Some goals may be offside but the linesman (woman in this case) didnt see that. Its swings and roundabouts, goals happened with a margin of offside which can happen to be very small. It in my opinion after this game has adapted to the fact there is an offside rule, has been entertaining, sometimes it in your favour sometimes it isnt. This makes footy exiting. VAR ruins this.

But on the other hand folks.... Im sure people said it was ruining the game when the offside rule was first brought in 40yrs ago, the game will adapt!! (BUT VAR REALLY NEEDS TO IMPROVE WHAT THEY LOOK FOR IN A FOUL AS SOME ARENT CHECKED YET SOME ARE, thats the problem.)

Just puzzled about "40 years" in relation to offside law.

It's been in football ever since the game started 150 years ago. Changed a few times but always been there.

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VAR should be used where the referee has missed a blatant and obvious transgression and for goal line decisions - not for spotting a toe offside etc.

 

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8 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

VAR should be used where the referee has missed a blatant and obvious transgression and for goal line decisions - not for spotting a toe offside etc.

 

We already have goal line technology and that is instant! 

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Not so sure implementation of  VAR is the biggest issue

The new handball directives far more damaging to the game

and a complete farce 

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Just now, bcfc01 said:

VAR should be used where the referee has missed a blatant and obvious transgression and for goal line decisions - not for spotting a toe offside etc.

 

As with so many things in the modern game, it will always be the thin end of the wedge.

At the risk of mixing metaphors, but the VAR genie is out of the bottle now, and once it was released it would always be the case that it's use would be extended. The money now in the game has increased the pressure on referees from players and managers, and over recent years the introduction of technology into other sports has increased the pressure on football's ruling bodies to introduce technology as the means of removing the unfair decisions that can cost clubs games, titles, trophies and money!

Unfortunately, and as has been discussed ad nauseam on here, the application of hawkeye in tennis or cricket or video replay in rugby is completely different than the use of technology in football, because of the nature of the game. That as it maybe, the use of goal line technology was universally welcomed, as it addressed a black and white issue, and did so very effectively,  but in hindsight it now appears to be have been a trojan horse for what followed.

I don't know about everyone else, but when VAR was introduced I anticipated it being used for marginal offside decisions, and to assist referees so they could avoid making glaring mistakes. In only 12 months since it's introduction it has quickly led to assistant referees becoming about as much use as a eunuch at an orgy and referees abdicating almost all responsibility for making on field decisions ( other than too many ludicrous yellow and red cards for  daft offences) and still being too easily conned by cheating players.

Also rather than removing uncertainty and contentious decisions, it seems to me that VAR creates as much contention and uncertainty and the cope of it's use is creeping ever further. Sadly, what the introduction of VAR has done is make the post match pundit debates more about Var decisions than the game itself. More worrying is the concern about who will have the final decision when VAR is applied, as in my opinion it should always be the on filed referee, otherwise there has to be a danger that outside influence will be allowed to impact decisions and the course of a game.

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11 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

I jeep getting told “it works in rugby”, and I cal bullshit on that, when ever I watch, every try seems to go to the VAR equivalent and everyone waits around for 2 mins whilst they double check all the angles.  The ref in football has to make a split second decision, they get some wrong on occasion true, but most are right, football is a flawed game, that’s what makes it beautiful

To be fair it's not a good comparison, they are totally different sports. It does work very well in rugby but there are far more frequent stoppages than in football anyway. It's obviously frustrating when decisions that are clearly straightforward require eighteen replays from seven angles to be consulted before the decision is given but on the whole it's made a positive contribution to the game.

In football it doesn't work at all for me. I would get rid of it entirely. I would like to see a citing system where bad tackles or diving are retrospectively punished whether the ref has dealt with it during the game or not, and I wouldn't mind broadcasting the ref mics (backed up with bans for dissent) to stop players mouthing off at them constantly but those are the only things I'd borrow from rugby. 

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I think the 'microscopic scrutiny' approach to 'offsides' that VAR allows is bloody farcical, annoying, stupid and if an attacker is offside by a toenail who gives a damn? So what, goal should stand, if purists don't like it well pardon the pun but that'll be just toe bad!

Reckon the offside rule should only apply if its shown that there was 'clear daylight' between the last defender and the goalside attacker..  (the onus then rests with the competence or otherwise of the defence to prevent such situations, if they cant then fair play to the attack for gaining a one on one with the goal keeper).   

Clear daylight or its not offside, keep the game flowing, create a few more striker v goalkeeper 'duels' .. goals and or saves.

 

 

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2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Not so sure implementation of  VAR is the biggest issue

The new handball directives far more damaging to the game

and a complete farce 

It will not be implemented throughout football at its different levels. It certainly will not at youth and non league levels. Like VAR people have chosen to fragment a game that once had universal rules at each level regardless of ability, level etc … These are bad things from their outset. 

Edited by Cowshed

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50 minutes ago, WhistleHappy said:

I think the 'microscopic scrutiny' approach to 'offsides' that VAR allows is bloody farcical, annoying, stupid and if an attacker is offside by a toenail who gives a damn? So what, goal should stand, if purists don't like it well pardon the pun but that'll be just toe bad!

Reckon the offside rule should only apply if its shown that there was 'clear daylight' between the last defender and the goalside attacker..  (the onus then rests with the competence or otherwise of the defence to prevent such situations, if they cant then fair play to the attack for gaining a one on one with the goal keeper).   

Clear daylight or its not offside, keep the game flowing, create a few more striker v goalkeeper 'duels' .. goals and or saves.

 

 

I understand and agree with a whole host of issues with VAR

But

Once you introduce it , you reduce any leeway

 if you ignore , offside by a toe , where do you stop , is a few inches ok ?  A foot ?

You have put forward the daylight idea but Then there would be massive delays whilst the two lines are analysed to decipher..........whether there was ‘clear daylight’

And Clear daylight between what (Any part of the body ?)

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Part I don’t agree with VAR is offside with a camera in the stand drawing a line which they think when the ball was passed. It’s not 100% accurate and if your going with such fine margins then there has to be leeway for the attacker.

Also don’t think there should be a them and us scenario in football. All laws should be same all levels not just Elite. Goal line technology is fair but we are now having competitions when depending on who’s ground it’s played at you get VAR.

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4 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Just puzzled about "40 years" in relation to offside law.

It's been in football ever since the game started 150 years ago. Changed a few times but always been there.

You are right, I was drunk. I had it in my head that there was some notion of forwards just standing by the goal waiting for long balls.

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22 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I understand and agree with a whole host of issues with VAR

But

Once you introduce it , you reduce any leeway

 if you ignore , offside by a toe , where do you stop , is a few inches ok ?  A foot ?

You have put forward the daylight idea but Then there would be massive delays whilst the two lines are analysed to decipher..........whether there was ‘clear daylight’

And Clear daylight between what (Any part of the body ?)

Preferably, scrap the var altogether, live with, like and lump incorrect refereeing (human error) decisions, they have been part of the game we love forever and let's not go down the route of using expensive technology to differentiate even further the 'elite' game and that of 'grassroots' football, (not withstanding goalline technology which is a valid and useful addition to the pro game) …. Let the linesman and ref make the decisions, good or bad, for better or for worse … albeit nowadays referees assistants and 'fourth official's ' etc.    Give the man/woman in the middle a whistle, cards and notebook and the person running the line a flag! Full stop. 

PS .. Offside decided by clear air between opposing players 'torso' IF spotted by referee of flagged from sidelines. (sod the half a shoesize decisions taken by technology)   

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4 hours ago, downendcity said:

I'm just waiting for VAR to be used at every corner and free kick into the box and the penalties that it will thereby identify for defenders holding and shirt pulling.

The again, I don't think I will hold my breath!

What I am anticipating is "good" goals being disallowed for a striker being 0.000000000001mm offside 5 minutes earlier in the build up.

For me if the body/torso is level it should be onside. If you foot is slightly ahead then so be it

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I think VAR will be a good thing in the long run, but as many people are saying, it will take time to be properly implemented.

They need to put a stop to the arbitrariness of it's current application. Originally there was a big deal made of the fact that it would only be used for 'Clear and obvious' decisions. That's not happening now.

What it is, currently, is a set of additional officials using their own opinion to alter major decisions as they're made. We don't need that.

What I think would be a good place to start, is to draw a clear line on what it is used for, and to stop the lengthy pitch-side reviews.

My personal opinion would be, that the extra officials in the VAR studio make the final call on decisions, they signal to the referee what the final decision is. They're a team of officials afterall, why should it matter whether the referee on the pitch makes the final decision, as long as the majority of the team of officials agrees. As for what decisions are reviewed, I believe they should stick to: Every goal, a quick check for offside on the final pass leading to a goal, that's it, don't go back through the whole move. Same goes for fouls in the build up, if there's clearly a found immediately before a goal (may have to set an arbitrary time line here, say 5 seconds before a goal), fine, but no combing through the entire move. Every penalty, studio officials come to a consensus and tell referee what the decision is. Same goes for red cards. Obviously it can be used as it would be now for mistaken identity. That should be it imo.

As for people's complaints about handballs, that is down to the actual rules set by FIFA, not VAR. VAR is just applying those rules.

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10 minutes ago, Snufflelufagus said:

For me if the body/torso is level it should be onside. If you foot is slightly ahead then so be it

As I think someone else has pointed out, with goal line technology the "camera" is viewing exactly along the goal line, so can measure definitively whether the ball has crossed the line .

By comparison, one of the fundamental issues I have  with VAR, when it comes to offside decisions, is that a line is superimposed across the pitch but there is no camera angle that can view at exactly 90 degrees to the touchline, and also judging the point at which the ball was struck.It's not an issue when the forward as well ahead of the defender, but it certainly is an issue when we are talking about a toe's length ahead.

I am sure a techno expert will tell me that the line that's superimposed is exact, but as I mentioned, it just not feel accurate enough when we are talking about judging such small margins.

 

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5 hours ago, Cowshed said:

It will not be implemented throughout football at its different levels. It certainly will not at youth and non league levels. Like VAR people have chosen to fragment a game that once had universal rules at each level regardless of ability, level etc … These are bad things from their outset. 

The problem is that every player in non league and youth football will now appeal for every ball to hand moment in the game, citing to the ref that it gets given at the higher level. The law makers are creating a monster.

Forget respect, non league refs are in for even more of a shit show than they already get.

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4 hours ago, downendcity said:

As I think someone else has pointed out, with goal line technology the "camera" is viewing exactly along the goal line, so can measure definitively whether the ball has crossed the line .

By comparison, one of the fundamental issues I have  with VAR, when it comes to offside decisions, is that a line is superimposed across the pitch but there is no camera angle that can view at exactly 90 degrees to the touchline, and also judging the point at which the ball was struck.It's not an issue when the forward as well ahead of the defender, but it certainly is an issue when we are talking about a toe's length ahead.

I am sure a techno expert will tell me that the line that's superimposed is exact, but as I mentioned, it just not feel accurate enough when we are talking about judging such small margins.

 

The lines are definitely always perfect. :dunno:

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I wonder how long it will be before a `big` club gets a result they don`t like overturned because their staff have found something in the tape of the match that should have been given/not given at the time. Worse still, they find something untoward in one of their rivals` games and demand that they are docked points.

I don`t watch football because I want to see every minute analysed in minute detail to ensure everything is correct - I go to be entertained by the wonderful, often flawed spectacle that is our beloved game.

Kill VAR dead now.

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