Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

IGNORED

Bolton / Bury On The Brink (Merged)


Recommended Posts

Read a good piece by Winter on Bury. 

Sadly behind the Times paywall but one thing that was notable was it mentioned that they were in 2012 the North West Community Club of the Year.

Wonder who for arguments sake puts in a greater % of income in terms of community expenditure- Bury or the 2 big Manchester clubs? Places like this, well anywhere in fact but places like this it seems like it is a big old part of the Community.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 20/08/2019 at 09:54, phantom said:

I'm not sure how to link it, but there is a really sad video of an 85 year old Bury fan that has no access to any social media / online etc.

So every day he is walking to the ground to check the club still exist, it's heartbreaking to see this chap absolutely broken that "his team" are on the verge of being no more

As you say, that is so sad.

Many of us can fully sympathise as in 1982 our only option was to visit the ground or for those further afield, to listen to the hourly news bulletins. (No 24/7 news channel either).

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Monkeh said:

Because he doesn’t want to lose his power,

he is the only reason they will go out of business, he is the failure as  as the efl’s Fit and proper persons test for letting asshats like them get involved in football 

The link I posted was about a woman who is an ex Director of Bury - she’s pleading for the clubs around Bury geographically to help them out financially - so not sure who the ‘he’ you are talking about actually is - I just thought it interesting that this lady is asking other clubs for help when you posted that the owners of Salford would not be allowed to do that ...

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

 

Yet a former Bury Director is calling for other clubs in the area to help them out financially to save them ? 

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2019-08-21/former-director-of-bury-fc-chains-herself-to-pipe-as-club-s-future-threatened/

Woman chains herself up............................er, what happens when she needs to pee ?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The idea of regionalising the lower leagues is romantic but a bit like re-arranging deckchairs on the titanic. There are bigger issues here that simply reducing travel expenses will not solve - most clubs that get into these problems seem to do so because they cease to be viable for the people who bought them.

The problem is the people who buy clubs and the fact that the lack of fan ownership means that when that person unilaterally decides their club is no longer viable, they can sit on the asset awaiting an offer to their satisfaction, rather than fund the club or put it in the hands of others, or in the trust of those fans.

The solution to this is for the EFL to a) properly enforce due diligence on people buying clubs so that their financial capacity and business plan to run such clubs is "fit and proper" and b) start to transition all clubs to a minimum level of "member" ownership, as in Germany, so one person doesn't control the future.

It IS possible to run a viable football league club at all levels. The fact so many aren't is down to their owners and by implication the EFL and its rules. We know how casual they are about rules because at our level it has been easy for far bigger clubs to game the system and abstract losses by re-arranging assets.

Bury is a particularly sad story given its history and because it has never reaped the rewards of football's big time. The easy cliche is to point the finger at  rich clubs and players, but the EFL and their directors trouser plenty of money themselves and this is actually their job. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Olé said:

The idea of regionalising the lower leagues is romantic but a bit like re-arranging deckchairs on the titanic. There are bigger issues here that simply reducing travel expenses will not solve - most clubs that get into these problems seem to do so because they cease to be viable for the people who bought them.

The problem is the people who buy clubs and the fact that the lack of fan ownership means that when that person unilaterally decides their club is no longer viable, they can sit on the asset awaiting an offer to their satisfaction, rather than fund the club or put it in the hands of others, or in the trust of those fans.

The solution to this is for the EFL to a) properly enforce due diligence on people buying clubs so that their financial capacity and business plan to run such clubs is "fit and proper" and b) start to transition all clubs to a minimum level of "member" ownership, as in Germany, so one person doesn't control the future.

It IS possible to run a viable football league club at all levels. The fact so many aren't is down to their owners and by implication the EFL and its rules. We know how casual they are about rules because at our level it has been easy for far bigger clubs to game the system and abstract losses by re-arranging assets.

Bury is a particularly sad story given its history and because it has never reaped the rewards of football's big time. The easy cliche is to point the finger at  rich clubs and players, but the EFL and their directors trouser plenty of money themselves and this is actually their job. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

The only way to stop clubs going out of business, is a salary cap,

it will never happen due to the greed of the top 8 clubs putting their interests before the national sports interest,

when you see the likes of juventus demanding earlier kickoffs so they get exposer to the Asian markets, the prem and Spanish top flight pushing hard to have a regular league game played in America for commercial reasons then you know football we know and love is dead for good

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never understood the argument for 'bigger' clubs helping to rescue financially stricken clubs like Bury. They are where they are for a good reason.

Would B@Q OR Wickes help to save Fred Bloggs DIY store on Bury High St if it was going under, no of course not.

Hope they survive but looks too late now.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

I have never understood the argument for 'bigger' clubs helping to rescue financially stricken clubs like Bury. They are where they are for a good reason.

Would B@Q OR Wickes help to save Fred Bloggs DIY store on Bury High St if it was going under, no of course not.

Hope they survive but looks too late now.

Exactly. If you were struggling to pay your mortgage, would you demand help from the bloke across the road whose house is twice as big as yours?

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, phantom said:

Blimey, that's a proper choker. 

I can't help thinking back to 1982 and how close we came to folding. My thoughts go out to every Bury supporter. It's not their fault how their club has been run but it's their club, nobody else's. :(

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Exactly. If you were struggling to pay your mortgage, would you demand help from the bloke across the road whose house is twice as big as yours?

The key difference, though a little tenuous, is that the game relies on the survival of the many. 

If B&Q were the only DIY store they'd be over the moon. If Man U were the only football team... 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

I have never understood the argument for 'bigger' clubs helping to rescue financially stricken clubs like Bury. They are where they are for a good reason.

Would B@Q OR Wickes help to save Fred Bloggs DIY store on Bury High St if it was going under, no of course not.

Hope they survive but looks too late now.

Not having a go at you mate but broadly, the fact that football clubs are viewed as businesses exclusively and not institutions that give back to their local communities is really sad.

Be nice if there was a small tax levied on player sales/purchases in the Premier League to go in to a rescue fund to help bail out clubs that are in financial difficulties, once a new owner who passes REAL fit and proper testing is installed, or to help fan-ownership schemes get started. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I wanted to post a comment, but I have to say that I am struggling to find the words that express what I am feeling.

On the one hand those of us that remember 1982, ban understand what fans of Bolton and Bury are going through right now,  and seeing the old boy who's been a lifelong Bury fan almost breaks your heart. It also makes you realise that football clubs aren't al about success, making money and business, they are about communities and being the focus of many fans' lives.

On the other hand I can't but feel angry at the inept and toothless EFL. We've just been through months during which "big" clubs have made a mockery of the financial rules that were put in place to protect clubs from financial mismanagement/overcommitment, yet we have 2 clubs on the verge of disappearing for good operating under the same financial rules. It raises questions as to whether the EFL's own financial rules are fit for purpose. 

 It also raises serious questions about the people the EFL approve to be club owners, but I suspect the tests potential owners are required to pass are about as stringent as the questioning of Derby's valuation of Pride Park. 

Like other posters have suggested, I think something will soon have to be done about players wages. The article that someone posted yesterday commented on the level of losses at championship clubs chasing promotion to the premier league and that the majority of  league clubs spend over 90% of income on wages, and many spend in excess of 100%. That is financial madness, yet it seems to be allowed ( albeit within ffp limits!!!). 

The current situation puts into sharp focus just how lucky we are to have SL as an owner. Not just because he is extremely wealthy and is willing and able to cover our losses, but he has business acumen and the integrity to make sure we are (now) being run in the right way, and not just for ffp purposes but for the future well being of the club.

 

  • Like 17
  • Flames 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ZiderEyed said:

Not having a go at you mate but broadly, the fact that football clubs are viewed as businesses exclusively and not institutions that give back to their local communities is really sad.

Be nice if there was a small tax levied on player sales/purchases in the Premier League to go in to a rescue fund to help bail out clubs that are in financial difficulties, once a new owner who passes REAL fit and proper testing is installed, or to help fan-ownership schemes get started. 

What an excellent idea ZE. 

I would imagine the Premier league transfers over a year are, at a guess, £750M (?), a 1% levy on that would put £7.5M into a 'rescue' fund for this purpose. It's not like the Prem boys wouldn't be able to afford it.

If managed correctly, I think your idea is excellent and would go a very small way to leveling the huge financial disparity in the game.

My only concern would be if clubs would use this as an excuse to overspend knowing this proposed cushion is available if they did get in to trouble. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

What an excellent idea ZE. 

I would imagine the Premier league transfers over a year are, at a guess, £750M (?), a 1% levy on that would put £7.5M into a 'rescue' fund for this purpose. It's not like the Prem boys wouldn't be able to afford it.

If managed correctly, I think your idea is excellent and would go a very small way to leveling the huge financial disparity in the game.

My only concern would be if clubs would use this as an excuse to overspend knowing this proposed cushion is available if they did get in to trouble. 

£1.41bn!!

https://talksport.com/football/572055/every-premier-league-club-spent-summer-transfer-window-2019-2020/

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, downendcity said:

I wanted to post a comment, but I have to say that I am struggling to find the words that express what I am feeling.

On the one hand those of us that remember 1982, ban understand what fans of Bolton and Bury are going through right now,  and seeing the old boy who's been a lifelong Bury fan almost breaks your heart. It also makes you realise that football clubs aren't al about success, making money and business, they are about communities and being the focus of many fans' lives.

On the other hand I can't but feel angry at the inept and toothless EFL. We've just been through months during which "big" clubs have made a mockery of the financial rules that were put in place to protect clubs from financial mismanagement/overcommitment, yet we have 2 clubs on the verge of disappearing for good operating under the same financial rules. It raises questions as to whether the EFL's own financial rules are fit for purpose. 

 It also raises serious questions about the people the EFL approve to be club owners, but I suspect the tests potential owners are required to pass are about as stringent as the questioning of Derby's valuation of Pride Park. 

Like other posters have suggested, I think something will soon have to be done about players wages. The article that someone posted yesterday commented on the level of losses at championship clubs chasing promotion to the premier league and that the majority of  league clubs spend over 90% of income on wages, and many spend in excess of 100%. That is financial madness, yet it seems to be allowed ( albeit within ffp limits!!!). 

The current situation puts into sharp focus just how lucky we are to have SL as an owner. Not just because he is extremely wealthy and is willing and able to cover our losses, but he has business acumen and the integrity to make sure we are (now) being run in the right way, and not just for ffp purposes but for the future well being of the club.

 

Problem is if the efl turns down some one on fit and proper person ground, they get taken to court which is what’s happened at Bolton, while they are ineffective I do have a tiny degree of sympathy for them  

Link to post
Share on other sites

The easier solution would be for owners buying clubs to be made to lodge 'x' number of millions with the EFL as a bond which would need to be increased annually in line with losses, so that if it does go tits, the club is protected.

Should they want to sell, then they either sell their bond on to the new owner, or if the club is debt free, just get it back from the EFL.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Not any of their business I know but a 134 year old football club will just disappear tomorrow because of one person who’s just in it for himself to make a few quid I’m abit surprised other clubs haven’t publicly thrown support behind Bury and urged Dale to just accept a bid from those who are interested, he paid just £1 when he took over, so far he’s turned them all away due to his greediness, keeps blaming the whole thing on previous owner, whilst sitting back doing nothing or seem to care one jot that Bury are on the verge of going pop.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, BCFC11 said:

Not any of their business I know but a 134 year old football club will just disappear tomorrow because of one person who’s just in it for himself to make a few quid I’m abit surprised other clubs haven’t publicly thrown support behind Bury and urged Dale to just accept a bid from those who are interested, he paid just £1 when he took over, so far he’s turned them all away due to his greediness, keeps blaming the whole thing on previous owner, whilst sitting back doing nothing or seem to care one jot that Bury are on the verge of going pop.

As far as I can follow it, the issue as he sees it is he has invested £x in the club aside from the nominal purchase price, and is holding out to get that back from any purchaser.

Its complete head in the sands stuff, as if it goes under he is going to lose it all anyway I would have thought. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, cityexile said:

As far as I can follow it, the issue as he sees it is he has invested £x in the club aside from the nominal purchase price, and is holding out to get that back from any purchaser.

Its complete head in the sands stuff, as if it goes under he is going to lose it all anyway I would have thought. 

That's correct. He's asking for a 7-figure sum to cover his outgoings.

There's been plenty of interest from potential buyers who will happily clear the debts to various creditors, but they're rightly drawing the line at giving him anything.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Monkeh said:

Problem is if the efl turns down some one on fit and proper person ground, they get taken to court which is what’s happened at Bolton, while they are ineffective I do have a tiny degree of sympathy for them  

It seems they are more worried about being taken to court by anyone for almost anything than protecting their clubs by applying their own rules. What is the point of having rules if they are never applied and actioned? The EFL need to grow a pair!

It has been suggested they've  back off taking action against big clubs over ffp because of the fear of legal action and now prospective owners being denied under fit and proper persons ( or whatever it's now called) tests.

That it was left to a club owner to try to do something about the ffp debacle a few months back, albeit that it came to nothing, says everything about the EFL's lack of credibility.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...