Hard Reset - Daniel Storey Article

[Maldini]

Apologies if already posted but this article from Daniel Storey is a pretty good read and worth a share. Personally I think we've got it just about right this transfer window, if we can get in 1-2 more by loan or transfer. 

https://www.football365.com/news/look-to-derby-for-proof-of-the-championships-hard-reset  

Key quotes,

'for every £100 earned by Championship clubs, £98 is spent on wages. That extraordinary overspend doesn’t even include transfer fees.'''

'With a week until the new season begins, eight of the 24 Championship clubs are yet to pay money for a single permanent signing this summer. The numbers are stark. Last summer, Championship clubs spent a combined £201m. The current figure this summer is £66m. Even with a likely late splurge, the total will fall well short.'

[chinapig]

Very good piece by the excellent Daniel Storey, thanks for posting.

[Robbored]

“To develop players is very important for the philosophy we have – to try to make a plan for each individual player to make it possible to reach the first team,” Cocu said. “The first team as well needs to be competitive as we try to get into the top six with the Premier League a goal, but not necessary in the first season. The bigger picture is about the football we play and the development of individual players.”...........

Must have got the plan from Bristol City.........

[downendcity]

12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

“To develop players is very important for the philosophy we have – to try to make a plan for each individual player to make it possible to reach the first team,” Cocu said. “The first team as well needs to be competitive as we try to get into the top six with the Premier League a goal, but not necessary in the first season. The bigger picture is about the football we play and the development of individual players.”...........

Must have got the plan from Bristol City.........

For all the fans who were originally sceptical, the 5 pillars and sustainability plans don't look so hair brained now.

Now if only the EFL had some tough rules, and penalties, to bring financial control and stop clubs over extending themselves financially ................................ 

[chinapig]

3 minutes ago, downendcity said:

For all the fans who were originally sceptical, the 5 pillars and sustainability plans don't look so hair brained now.

Now if only the EFL had some tough rules, and penalties, to bring financial control and stop clubs over extending themselves financially ................................ 

I enjoyed the irony of Mel Morris talking about sustainability. Though surely Derby made a decent and of course entirely legitimate profit last season so he sets a fine example.

[City Ben]

Seems like we've been on this track for a couple of years now. Interest that now, when the rest of the division seems to be tightening its collective belt, we have got the firepower to be able to invest. It's almost like it's all been planned!

[CotswoldRed]

6 hours ago, chinapig said:

I enjoyed the irony of Mel Morris talking about sustainability. Though surely Derby made a decent and of course entirely legitimate profit last season so he sets a fine example.

At least Mel won't be able to perform the same stunt twice. 

[chipdawg]

I really like Daniel Storey as a football writer, but this is a pretty half-arsed piece in a lot of respects. No mention of Derby's questionable stadium sale and the implications of that being a driver in their lack of spending. Highlighting the lack of fees paid out by Norwich, but no mention of the massive wages they paid out (£30k per week for Krul was it?). It feels like he's come up with a theory and then cherry picked facts to support it.

Also, "Sheffield United identified a player in John Egan who manager Chris Wilder believed could fine-tune his ingenious 3-4-1-2, centre-backs-bombing-on-like-wing-backs tactic". That sounds an awful lot like Steve Cotterill's tactics in our League 1 promotion season and first season back in the championship...

[phantom]

11 hours ago, Maldini said:

Apologies if already posted but this article from Daniel Storey is a pretty good read and worth a share. Personally I think we've got it just about right this transfer window, if we can get in 1-2 more by loan or transfer. 

https://www.football365.com/news/look-to-derby-for-proof-of-the-championships-hard-reset  

Key quotes,

'for every £100 earned by Championship clubs, £98 is spent on wages.

Sounds like my income - change wages to "pissing up the wall"

[Southport Red]

10 hours ago, downendcity said:

Now if only the EFL had some tough rules, and penalties, to bring financial control and stop clubs over extending themselves financially ................................ 

They do. If you consistently ignore their rules on spending, they transfer you to the Premier League, where you become someone else’s problem. 

[downendcity]

29 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

They do. If you consistently ignore their rules on spending, they transfer you to the Premier League, where you become someone else’s problem. 

The end justify the means - Villa laughing all the way to the bank.

The only hope is that after spending £100m+ in this window, a quick return to the championship might ( if the EFL can get their ffp heads out of their arses) just see them get their comeuppance. We can but hope!

 

[Monkeh]

51 minutes ago, downendcity said:

The end justify the means - Villa laughing all the way to the bank.

The only hope is that after spending £100m+ in this window, a quick return to the championship might ( if the EFL can get their ffp heads out of their arses) just see them get their comeuppance. We can but hope!

 

It’s a toss of a coin,

if villa lost to derby they would be truest ****** facing massive sanctions a points deduction and a ban on signing players

its a gamble that if doesn’t come off risks the future of the club a gamble I’m glad we don’t take as we’d end up like Portsmouth Ipswich Swindon and all those other clubs knocking about in the lower leagues

[AshtonGreat]

And yet some people still defend the wages that footballers get. Laughable. 

[Eddie Hitler]

4 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

It’s a toss of a coin,

if villa lost to derby they would be truest ****** facing massive sanctions a points deduction and a ban on signing players

its a gamble that if doesn’t come off risks the future of the club a gamble I’m glad we don’t take as we’d end up like Portsmouth Ipswich Swindon and all those other clubs knocking about in the lower leagues

As happened to QPR; they could get away with it whilst in the Premiership but were punished when they were relegated back into the Championship.

Unless you are never going to get relegated that punishment is waiting.

It wasn't the £70m fine that was initially threatened but it wasn't a slap on the wrist either.  I would say that's really a £20m penalty as writing off the loans actually helps the club; I think it was a conversion to equity as the Lansdowns have done for some of their debt.
 

Quote

 

Queens Park Rangers have ended their appeal of a financial fair play (FFP) dispute with the English Football League and will pay approximately £42 million in restitution as well as accept a transfer ban.

The settlement includes a £17m fine and a payment of £3m toward the EFL's legal costs, and the club's shareholders will write off £21.965m of outstanding loans.

 

https://www.espn.com/soccer/queens-park-rangers/story/3576734/qpr-accept-transfer-ban-and-42-million-fine-after-dropping-financial-fair-play-appeal

[Mr Popodopolous]

1. Parking a significant punishment for Aston Villa would be the best solution IMO.
2. Sheffield Wednesday's ground transaction looks very interesting let's say- notable that they still appear not to be out of soft embargo so watch this space?
3. PL and EFL were meant to have something joined up whereby points deductions for offences in the Championship could be applied in the PL- vice versa too maybe?
4. Back onto 1), if Aston Villa have sold and leasebacked within the regs I'm not sure what can be done- the best bet maybe PL docking points as they gained promotion and PL cash within a loophole- the people who appeared to have opened up the ground loophole? EFL. Ironically this could be one case in which a fine is alright- that is to say a massive fine out of actual income, or "income" with ground transaction and perhaps as a % of their PL income, while still obliging them to stick to FFP regs which if they cannot it thern escalates to embargo and points deduction- a trap basically.
5. Given the EFL member clubs comprise the EFL, and vote on things I cannot see them letting Aston Villa especially and Sheffield Wednesday owing to possible discrepancies in transaction go off scot free.
6. Derby are a weird one. They actually seem to be taking good downsizing steps and their losses were a lot lower than Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday despite the ground transaction- they've also sold players to help mitigate so a significant penalty for them wouldn't seem so justified I feel. Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday however...is it even certain Derby broke FFP? I'd say not, certainly to June 2018 given their large investments in infrastructure and academy over the 3 seasons. I've not delved too much into their Parent Company (Sevco 5112) accounts though, merely their Derby County FC ones- and under those they were compliant regardless of ground transactions once adjustments etc made.

[downendcity]

13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

1. Parking a significant punishment for Aston Villa would be the best solution IMO.
2. Sheffield Wednesday's ground transaction looks very interesting let's say- notable that they still appear not to be out of soft embargo so watch this space?
3. PL and EFL were meant to have something joined up whereby points deductions for offences in the Championship could be applied in the PL- vice versa too maybe?
4. Back onto 1), if Aston Villa have sold and leasebacked within the regs I'm not sure what can be done- the best bet maybe PL docking points as they gained promotion and PL cash within a loophole- the people who appeared to have opened up the ground loophole? EFL.
5. Given the EFL member clubs comprise the EFL, and vote on things I cannot see them letting Aston Villa especially and Sheffield Wednesday owing to discrepancies in transaction scot free.
6. Derby are a weird one. They actually seem to be taking good downsizing steps and their losses were a lot lower than Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday despite the ground transaction- they've also sold players to help mitigate so a significant penalty for them wouldn't seem so justified I feel. Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday however...is it even certain Derby broke FFP? I'd say not, certainly to June 2018 given their large investments in infrastructure and academy over the 3 seasons.

Too many ifs, buts and grey areas Mr P., and this despite the "upgraded" ffp rules that kicked in this year!

With hindsight ( although I suspect many knew this to be the case) it seems that clubs employing professional advisers have fond ways of circumventing a set of rules put together by amateurs. Even at this point, and if ffp is to remain relevant and have credibility, it seems to me that the rules need to be urgently overhauled, but not by people with any conflict of interest.

The EFL also need to have ffp overseen by a compliance team that knows what they are doing and is prepared to take action against any club, no matter the club's size, reputation or :football clout". SL has come from a heavily regulated world where exactly this sort of regime has been in place for years, so perhaps he might be able to give some pointers on the way it should be set up and operated.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Too many ifs, buts and grey areas Mr P., and this despite the "upgraded" ffp rules that kicked in this year!

With hindsight ( although I suspect many knew this to be the case) it seems that clubs employing professional advisers have fond ways of circumventing a set of rules put together by amateurs. Even at this point, and if ffp is to remain relevant and have credibility, it seems to me that the rules need to be urgently overhauled, but not by people with any conflict of interest.

The EFL also need to have ffp overseen by a compliance team that knows what they are doing and is prepared to take action against any club, no matter the club's size, reputation or :football clout". SL has come from a heavily regulated world where exactly this sort of regime has been in place for years, so perhaps he might be able to give some pointers on the way it should be set up and operated.

Seems that way unfortunately.

The crazy thing was that they circumvented a loophole that was opened- that is very curious at best and I am puzzled as to why it was opened and when- certainly was not heavily advertised as a change in regulations. This particular loophole being opened up also goes against UEFA guidelines so this is an oddity to say the least. I think the regs now seems to be getting enforced moreso, or at least this is a perception given that clubs are reigning it in- elements of the EFL version seem to have been put together on the hoof! There is a bit of cause for optimism though, in that a points deduction to overspend tariff is now there, in black and white- in the public domain. Why this wasn't there before well only the EFL would know that- get the feeling that almost anyone as CEO will be better than Shaun Harvey though so the only way is up?? The first big change that needs to be made is to exclude profit or more than a certain ratio from sale and leaseback to related parties of fixed assets- Reading's of 32.5% or so seems about right, useful benchmark?

Agreed- SL and Ashton would be very useful in terms of FFP- especially compliance and regulation in SL's case.

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Seems that way unfortunately.

The crazy thing was that they circumvented a loophole that was opened- that is very curious at best and I am puzzled as to why it was opened and when- certainly was not heavily advertised as a change in regulations. This particular loophole being opened up also goes against UEFA guidelines so this is an oddity to say the least. I think it seems to be getting enforced now or at least this is a perception given that clubs are reigning it in- elements of the EFL version seem to have been put together on the hoof! There is a bit of cause for optimism though, in that a points deduction to overspend tariff is now there, in black and white- in the public domain. Why this wasn't there before well only the EFL would know that- get the feeling that almost anyone as CEO will be better than Shaun Harvey though so the only way is up??

Agreed- SL and Ashton would be very useful in terms of FFP- especially compliance and regulation in SL's case.

There will always be loopholes people will always explore/exploit no contract or rule set is water tight,

the key thing is plugging said loopholes quickly and that’s where the efl the fa and the prem fail,

there is too much bureaucracy and not enough action

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

There will always be loopholes people will always explore/exploit no contract or rule set is water tight,

the key thing is plugging said loopholes quickly and that’s where the efl the fa and the prem fail,

there is too much bureaucracy and not enough action

I know there will always be loopholes but there aren't all that many that I can see.

The ground/fixed asset one but especially the ground element of it was seemingly opened up by the EFL themselves. Not necessarily a clever loophole found but a tap in, into an open goal!

[Monkeh]

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I know there will always be loopholes but there aren't all that many that I can see.

The ground/fixed asset one but especially the ground element of it was seemingly opened up by the EFL themselves. Not necessarily a clever loophole found but a tap in, into an open goal!

My point is the rule makers take far too long to plug the gap

take the ground sale,

when wednesday did it why was the gap not plugged why did derby and villa get away with it before they even spoke about it,

thats the frustrating thing

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

My point is the rule makers take far too long to plug the gap

take the ground sale,

when wednesday did it why was the gap not plugged why did derby and villa get away with it before they even spoke about it,

thats the frustrating thing

Certainly don't disagree with that- it's on the hoof for sure, elements of it.

Actually Steve Gibson took things to a vote but possibly overplayed his hand- he wanted independent auditors to be able to view the accounts of all clubs in late April 2019, but this was voted down by the clubs Derby did the ground thing in summer 2018, it's the 2 most recent ones that bring about the most questions- not least as the overspend was major for each.

No indication yet that Sheffield Wednesday in particular have got away with anything- there are a lot of curious things about this transaction, delving into it is interesting. If they had got away with it, the soft embargo would have been lifted pretty imminently? It has not been so far as we can see.

Agree with your main point though, they seem to have trouble thinking on their feet on this.

[chinapig]

6 hours ago, chipdawg said:

I really like Daniel Storey as a football writer, but this is a pretty half-arsed piece in a lot of respects. No mention of Derby's questionable stadium sale and the implications of that being a driver in their lack of spending. Highlighting the lack of fees paid out by Norwich, but no mention of the massive wages they paid out (£30k per week for Krul was it?). It feels like he's come up with a theory and then cherry picked facts to support it.

Also, "Sheffield United identified a player in John Egan who manager Chris Wilder believed could fine-tune his ingenious 3-4-1-2, centre-backs-bombing-on-like-wing-backs tactic". That sounds an awful lot like Steve Cotterill's tactics in our League 1 promotion season and first season back in the championship...

How about this bit?

Only a minority of Championship clubs are in serious imminent danger of breaking FFP regulations, but that is partly due to creative accounting strategies that involve selling stadia to umbrella companies of the owners (Sheffield Wednesday and Derby) and sizeable loans from owners to the club to facilitate player investment. 

Though there has generally been silence from the media on this because it involves clubs they favour. In that they have actually heard of them and want them in the Prem because apparently it's their rightful place.

[chipdawg]

47 minutes ago, chinapig said:

How about this bit?

Only a minority of Championship clubs are in serious imminent danger of breaking FFP regulations, but that is partly due to creative accounting strategies that involve selling stadia to umbrella companies of the owners (Sheffield Wednesday and Derby) and sizeable loans from owners to the club to facilitate player investment. 

Though there has generally been silence from the media on this because it involves clubs they favour. In that they have actually heard of them and want them in the Prem because apparently it's their rightful place.

Good spot! I withdraw my criticism of Mr Storey. Wanna proof read some reports for me?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Appears that Sheffield Wednesday have had their soft embargo lifted- but it raises quite a few questions this transaction tbh...perhaps more still of the EFL for doing so?

[Crimson Crayola]

Love this - "Norwich and Sheffield United finished 28 and 23 points clear of Forest respectively. In short, the two clubs who deliberately took on the role of antidote to Championship spending culture were the division’s most emphatic success stories."