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(Not happening) Expanding the ground


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On 10/08/2019 at 07:33, Bristol Rob said:

What were Cardiff's gates like in a struggling premier league season?

We averaged over 31000 last season I believe, capacity is 34000. I think if we stayed around in that league we would average 35 quite comfortably and expand a stand to get to 40. There are still 1000’s of people in the city that don’t follow us, with a population approaching 400k and quite a lot of support from the surrounding areas we actually only get about 4 or 5% of the city itself ever going. Reckon we are both similar sized clubs and would attract similar gates whatever league we ended up in. We haven’t got another club in the city to put up with mind, I believe there is another club somewhere down the m4 but they are pretty irrelevant.....😁

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On 10/08/2019 at 10:55, Redwhitepurple said:

it true. The artificial attendance maybe what you say but physical people actually through the gates is 1000-2500 less. If no one turned out to a city hime game and stadium was empty they would still class it as 13500 people as its the amount of people who buy season cards automatically included regardless if they go to the game

more than that

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We’ve come a long way with a core support in the last 10 years/ new ground. I still miss the old shithole that was home but not the agro...first time I saw us play you lot was 1989, allegedly only 6000 in Ninian Park, and you must have brought 2500 at least. I’d never seen the away end that full. Just 3000 home fans back then.

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11 minutes ago, Montpelierblue said:

We’ve come a long way with a core support in the last 10 years/ new ground. I still miss the old shithole that was home but not the agro...first time I saw us play you lot was 1989, allegedly only 6000 in Ninian Park, and you must have brought 2500 at least. I’d never seen the away end that full. Just 3000 home fans back then.

Was that the game we beat you 3-0 in the rain? If so I was there - my first ever away game. Got absolutely soaking wet on that open terrace. 

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The only way that we would need to increase the capacity of the stadium would be if we were to get to the Premier League. Arsenal have found out the hard way that a stadium no longer draws the revenue that enables teams to compete. It is actually restrictive if clubs need to draw back to fund stadium development and additional resource allocation. 

The main source of income for Premier League clubs is TV revenue given the competition between Sky, BT and even Amazon. 

Should we reach the promised land, a modest extension (of 3,000) to placate the armchair fans would surely suffice?

Bournemouth have proven that stadia doesn’t determine success over recent years.  

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59 minutes ago, Offside said:

Was that the game we beat you 3-0 in the rain? If so I was there - my first ever away game. Got absolutely soaking wet on that open terrace. 

Yes, in those days we couldn’t ever seem to beat you.  That open grange end was a shocker with no roof. Went to the return at yours, think we were 3 down by the time loads of us got into the ground....A young Andy Cole firing them in I think. The bad old days

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2 hours ago, Offside said:

Was that the game we beat you 3-0 in the rain? If so I was there - my first ever away game. Got absolutely soaking wet on that open terrace. 

And pelted with coins and anything else they could lay their hands on if I remember correctly. Ah! the good old days.

Edited by pillred
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On 09/08/2019 at 23:48, pillred said:

We averaged over 21,000 last season, do you really think we would only average a couple of thousand more in the Premier league? if we can take over 40,000 to London for the paint pot trophy playing the likes of Arsenal, Man City, Chelsea, means there will be many games when we could easily sell 40,000 and another half a dozen where we could expect over 30,000, I think you are being overly pessimistic. 

Gas levels of delusion.

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9 hours ago, pillred said:

And pelted with coins and anything else they could lay their hands on if I remember correctly. Ah! the good old days.

Bizarre when you think back to how things were, at least we survived! Cracks me up when some clubs fans think coming to Cardiff is still dodgy :laugh:....it’s probably the safest place in the uk for a Saturday pm

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Why does anyone care about extending AG for PL football for fans who won't support City while we're in the Championship?

Sod them - I'd rather have 20k genuine City supporters than 30k including 10k Bristolian plastics who either support the opposition or who just want to see a PL match and don't really care who wins.

If you keep supporting the club while we're in the Championship by buying a ST you'll have no problem getting one should we get promoted - providing you can afford the no doubt huge price increase that will follow, that is.

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1 minute ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Why does anyone care about extending AG for PL football for fans who won't support City while we're in the Championship?

Sod them - I'd rather have 20k genuine City supporters than 30k including 10k Bristolian plastics who either support the opposition or who just want to see a PL match and don't really care who wins.

If you keep supporting the club while we're in the Championship by buying a ST you'll have no problem getting one should we get promoted - providing you can afford the no doubt huge price increase that will follow, that is.

I have a season ticket but many simply can’t afford one. It doesn’t mean they aren’t real fans and aren’t as passionate as I am. 

Yes if we do go up there will inevitably be some “plastics” who want to see a premier league match without being too bothered about who wins.... but there will be plenty of dedicated City fans who are priced out of season tickets.

 

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14 minutes ago, nick jones of hereford said:

I have a season ticket but many simply can’t afford one. It doesn’t mean they aren’t real fans and aren’t as passionate as I am. 

Yes if we do go up there will inevitably be some “plastics” who want to see a premier league match without being too bothered about who wins.... but there will be plenty of dedicated City fans who are priced out of season tickets.

 

So assumedly these people won't be able to afford a ticket in the Prem either?

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39 minutes ago, phantom said:

So assumedly these people won't be able to afford a ticket in the Prem either?

Maybe, but not necessarily. Yes Prem tickets will almost certainly be more expensive than current, but they won’t be more than season tickets.

The point I’m trying to make is that we have a diverse fan base and some genuine fans can only afford the occasional match.

 

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1 hour ago, nick jones of hereford said:

I have a season ticket but many simply can’t afford one. It doesn’t mean they aren’t real fans and aren’t as passionate as I am. 

Yes if we do go up there will inevitably be some “plastics” who want to see a premier league match without being too bothered about who wins.... but there will be plenty of dedicated City fans who are priced out of season tickets.

 

I know there will be. I've said as much above, and indeed I may be one of them should we go up, but that's not really the point when it comes to expanding the ground.

The point I'm making is if you don't/can't support City in the Championship why would you expect get a seat if we get to the PL?

Why expand the ground at all for new attendees who will likely give up their their seat as soon as we go down again and it's back to only BCFC to see and not the illustrious opponents, and PL football, who drew them to AG in the first place?

It'll just dilute the atmosphere. Rather 24k City fans ( away allocations are less in the PL than we give now) solidly behind the team than thousands of PL fans swelling the gate.

 

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1 hour ago, phantom said:

So assumedly these people won't be able to afford a ticket in the Prem either?

I live in London & go to most away games but watch most home games with a VPN as I can’t afford the transport week in week out + the price of a ST too.

If we did go up I’d try to buy a ST and budget in other areas because the chance of seeing these teams, in league games, in our ground would be incredible.

However, I have next to no history of buying home tickets since 14/15. I had a ST for 6 years prior to that season yet City wouldn’t give me any priority for the Man Utd game as I had no membership in the current season, I assume it would be the same rules if we went up & I tried buying a ST.

Edited by Unan
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8 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I know there will be. I've said as much above, and indeed I may be one of them should we go up, but that's not really the point when it comes to expanding the ground.

The point I'm making is if you don't/can't support City in the Championship why would you expect get a seat if we get to the PL?

Why expand the ground at all for new attendees who will likely give up their their seat as soon as we go down again and it's back to only BCFC to see and not the illustrious opponents, and PL football, who drew them to AG in the first place?

It'll just dilute the atmosphere. Rather 24k City fans ( away allocations are less in the PL than we give now) solidly behind the team than thousands of PL fans swelling the gate.

 

Unsure about that one.

Quote

Premier League rules dictate that the allocation of away tickets should be: "3,000 tickets or, if the capacity of the home club's stadium is less than 30,000, such number of tickets as is equal to 10 per cent."

About 10% of capacity. So far we give something between 2,000 and 10%. AG under 30,000 so 2,700 is about 10%.

At our level the regs are 10% of capacity if a ground holds under 20k or or 2,000 if not.

Surely though on the general point, growth as a club might mean bigger capacity needed, money etc.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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1 hour ago, nick jones of hereford said:

Maybe, but not necessarily. Yes Prem tickets will almost certainly be more expensive than current, but they won’t be more than season tickets.

The point I’m trying to make is that we have a diverse fan base and some genuine fans can only afford the occasional match.

 

You shouldn't have to explain yourself, there are some on here that seem to think only true fans have a season ticket when in fact for some of us to have one does not make financial sense, it doesn't mean you are any less of a fan. there are some of our fanbase that come to the occasional match from Sweden, they may only come a couple of times a season but I bet they care as passionately as any season ticket holder. 

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34 minutes ago, pillred said:

You shouldn't have to explain yourself, there are some on here that seem to think only true fans have a season ticket when in fact for some of us to have one does not make financial sense, it doesn't mean you are any less of a fan. there are some of our fanbase that come to the occasional match from Sweden, they may only come a couple of times a season but I bet they care as passionately as any season ticket holder. 

I don't think that, and that's not what I was saying.

As well as financial we all know there are many reasons why getting a season ticket may be completely impractical even for the most dedicated of supporters.

Work, illness, having young children, moving away for career or University etc. etc., there are a myriad of reasons.

I'm talking about supporters who could support City now in person and financially in the Championship, and choose not to but will suddenly find the time, energy, interest and money to rush out to get ST's for PL football should we get there.

I've no sympathy if those individuals can't then get one and neither do I think we should expand the ground to accommodate them.

I hope all genuine City supporters will have at least taken out Membership so they will be ahead of these non City supporting Bristolian PL fans for ST's should the day come.

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Making a trip to Ashton Gate is all about entertainment, and that includes off the pitch as well as on the pitch.

If we can increase the capacity of AG and keep fans coming in then that's got to be the ambition regardless of whether we make the premier league or not.

Larger crowds make the whole day feel better, especially when the ref has a stinker and our fans are baying for blood!

We need to make attending Ashton Gate attractive, so if we did make the Premier for one season and then we came down again but with a bigger capacity, we should look to have ticket prices at being a tenner in the championship to encourage larger crowds in a bigger stadium.

We should always aim to be the best we can be, so if that means a rebuilt Atyeo and/or Dolman, plus an extra tier on the south stand to take us upto 38,000, then so be it.

Part of me wants the premier to implode, but only after we've had a chance to use it's rewards for bettering our facilities.

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Just out of curiosity if the Lansdown stand was to be mirrored throughout the stadium, has anyone got an idea of what the capacity would be?

 

If you look at the stadium from above the Lansdown only sticks out an extra 3 to 5 yards or so, so you could if conditions allowed develop the ground without having to buy the houses just some of the land and compensate the houses on Ashton rd for their loss of light.

 

There is nothing wrong with dreaming that one day we could require that capacity though I doubt I will ever be here to see it. 

Edited by BS3_RED
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19 minutes ago, BS3_RED said:

Just out of curiosity if the Lansdown stand was to be mirrored throughout the stadium, has anyone got an idea of what the capacity would be?

 

If you look at the stadium from above the Lansdown only sticks out an extra 3 to 5 yards or so, so you could if conditions allowed develop the ground without having to buy the houses just some of the land and compensate the houses on Ashton rd for their loss of light.

 

There is nothing wrong with dreaming that one day we could require that capacity though I doubt I will ever be here to see it. 

There are still 4 metres to the rear of the Dolman stand where the upper tier could overhang, still provide emergency access along it's length and not hinder the flats behind in an adverse way regarding light. Mirroring the Lansdown stand there would give an increase of about 3 thousand. Mirroring the South Stand at the Atyeo end would increase capacity by another 2 thousand. So a lot of expenditure for a gain of about 5 thousand. That would take us up to 32 thousand, not needed yet but, who knows. Plenty of clubs are/have been building bigger grounds or increasing capacity, so there must be some financial gain, perhaps in the match day income and merchandise as well as the ticket income.

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