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Concerning he feels that way of course, and given his close relationship with the club I don't believe GMc has made this up. 

However, I don't understand why he thinks he would have any more influence over youngsters making it into the first team at a Premier League club. 

Maybe it is a little bit more about the money but why would he want to unsettle his family by commuting to Southampton as Carey does? 

 

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I think that we all have to face a few facts here.

1. The league we are in is the 5th biggest in Europe.

2.  We are committed to getting into the number 1 league in Europe.

3.  The ‘Pathway’ does not mean that players coming through The Academy have to play for us, it’s about them making a living in professional football. The best ones we keep and THEY may be sold, it’s a talent AND money machine.

4.  The HC is under increasing pressure to deliver, that is simply not going to change SL wants promotion and continual progression that is why he spends so much money supporting the club.

5. There is no way on this planet that we will get promoted with a squad of players that have come through the Academy - there is a very simple reason for this, the very best ones will be bought by a bigger and richer club way before that happens.

6. This is professional football it’s a business.

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If 'the pathway' were U23's to 1st XI then would Brian really have a job as loans manager in the first place? Its because we do have him in this role that the pathway of our players through loans is viewed so crucially, if it weren't we wouldn't have someone in that role.

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3 hours ago, spudski said:

Exactly...pathway to the first team doesn't mean from U23s to first team.

Most need loans to other teams in the football league to get up to speed with Men's football.

Look at Reid... Plymouth then before you know it...etc.

The higher up the Championship you get the harder it is for a youngster to become a promotion quality player.

It's ok to blood them...but if they make mistakes that lead to defeats, what do you do? 

It's a catch 22.

Put yourself in Tinman's shoes...you see the talent you have loaned out, but because they are your 'baby's ' do you start seeing things through blinkered eyes?

I'm guessing Vyner being loaned to Aberdeen may have caused a feeling of unease.

To be honest, I wonder if LJ wants to see if Vyner can make it at RB, as we've now signed Kalas.

Give hima year in the SPL and then drop Hunt perhaps?

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3 hours ago, chipdawg said:

We're not blocking the pathway, loads of our players are playing league football. The pathway is not necessarily to the Bristol City first team, its to professional football. In that respect, we're doing a good job

I mention Brian Tinnion in this thread.. Bristol City coaches do not agree with you. I did not make it up. When I used the following coaches are circumspect about the future = they are unhappy about how Bristol City transfers are being conducted, the pathway being blocked and the position of the academy. 

 

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11 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Well playing the likes of Bailey wright  Hunt Baker etc is not stopping the goals conceeded at the moment.

I understand & agree with your point but would the younger ones do any better at this stage in their careers ?. I guess we'll never know unless they are given the game time, hence why they are loaned out to get more game time. I see no easy answer but probably something most clubs have to deal with.

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10 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

I mention Brian Tinnion in this thread.. Bristol City coaches do not agree with you. I did not make it up. When I used the following coaches are circumspect about the future = they are unhappy about how Bristol City transfers are being conducted, the pathway being blocked and the position of the academy. 

 

Perhaps they need to arrange to have a 'one on one'?

Perhaps the 'plan' has evolved to a point where it needs reviewing?

I saw this when the ' blueprint' was first put in place.

The problem is...and it will always be a problem...is 'reserve' football for want of a better word, is miles off of the first team, regardless of what level.

For example...stock piling and U23s at Chelsea...how many of them were ever realistically going to make the first team?

Same for most Clubs in the Prem and top of the Championship.

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4 hours ago, chipdawg said:

We're not blocking the pathway, loads of our players are playing league football. The pathway is not necessarily to the Bristol City first team, its to professional football. In that respect, we're doing a good job

Yes and no, I would imagine signing an 18 year old for £8 million, ( I think that is the rumoured price ?) probably hasn’t gone down too well with some coaches at the academy. The remit they will be given is to produce players for ‘our’ first team, they then see a lot of youngish signings coming into the club, and the talent they are producing going out of the club on loans. It’s got to be frustrating for these coaches. 

In fact it clearly is, as there wouldn’t be a ( leaked ) press story about it otherwise!.

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46 minutes ago, bpexile said:

I understand & agree with your point but would the younger ones do any better at this stage in their careers ?. I guess we'll never know unless they are given the game time, hence why they are loaned out to get more game time. I see no easy answer but probably something most clubs have to deal with.

Yes see where your coming from but soon as they get mature enough to play first team they are sold very frustrating having such a good back line last year. Back to square one now.

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He's no good on Football Manager anyway.

But seriously... If the manager feels the players coming through aren't good enough/ready then tough, he's going to sign better players. We're not here to just be in the business of developing kids, we are trying to push the club further up the pyramid.

If you don't like it, get the academy to produce better players.

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There's another element to this - whether our academy resurgence is down to Tinnion's work, and whether he's been offered the freedom to work in an environment that he is comfortable with, being a modern-day Bristol City legend and all.

Could he move to a different city and work the same magic? Sure, he'd get better facilities and might get to work with a Category 1 academy, but outside of gutting Bristol City for young talent would he know the area well enough, have enough of a rapport with local parents wanting their clubs to play for the one team in Bristol, etc?

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I’m sure Brian Tinnion will sympathise with LJ , and that will mean everything , if LJ plays young players who are not ready , in the Championship , and results lose Johnson his job 

Yeah right.......

 

Easy isn’t it , when it’s not your neck on he line 

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What I find frustrating is that when players are first brought in, assuming at that point to be good enough, they are given one or two games or place on the bench and if the don't get 10/10 are dropped much too soon. That puts huge pressure on them in the first couple of games. 

If they make it to the first team they should be given a run of games to see how quickly they adjust n get up to speed with first team football. 

Morrell for instance I thought was good n showed potential but given too little game time. Now after experiencing championship football he's playing in the lower leagues and maybe losing confidence wondering if he'll ever get back to the gate. 

Surely there is always space for one youngster in the team and being given extra support from the more experienced around him. 

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9 hours ago, spudski said:

Perhaps they need to arrange to have a 'one on one'?

Perhaps the 'plan' has evolved to a point where it needs reviewing?

I saw this when the ' blueprint' was first put in place.

The problem is...and it will always be a problem...is 'reserve' football for want of a better word, is miles off of the first team, regardless of what level.

For example...stock piling and U23s at Chelsea...how many of them were ever realistically going to make the first team?

Same for most Clubs in the Prem and top of the Championship.

Has Bristol City's academy and its pathway been a success? Well it has had success and the club has profited greatly.

That success, the money has been used to buy players which can only limit opportunity for players within the pathway. Meanwhile Bristol City share facilities with colleges. This cannot be  compared with Chelsea who train in state of the art facilities, and pay kids large sums at 16, or a Southampton. The models are different. Its not he same at most clubs, models vary from club to club and so does the importance of development. 

This pathway is fundamental to the club or it is not. 

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13 hours ago, spudski said:

Exactly...pathway to the first team doesn't mean from U23s to first team.

Most need loans to other teams in the football league to get up to speed with Men's football.

Look at Reid... Plymouth then before you know it...etc.

The higher up the Championship you get the harder it is for a youngster to become a promotion quality player.

It's ok to blood them...but if they make mistakes that lead to defeats, what do you do? 

It's a catch 22.

Put yourself in Tinman's shoes...you see the talent you have loaned out, but because they are your 'baby's ' do you start seeing things through blinkered eyes?

I'm guessing Vyner being loaned to Aberdeen may have caused a feeling of unease.

Vyner is the odd one for me because I fully expected him to get game time with the first team this season, it seems that Taylor Moore has pipped him for a place despite only being on loan at Southend.

Is he better than Hunt or Pereira at right back ? 

Aberdeen will be a good experience for the  lad but if he doesn’t get into our first team after that then his agent needs to get busy.

Max will benefit from a full season of first team football. We could all see that he’s not yet up to a full Championship year .

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16 hours ago, bengalcub said:

Hes got a point , look how well o'leary done last season he deserved his shot this season, instead two new keepers in and hes out on loan , vyners played several championship level games last season bombed out in favour of a loanee of similar age from portugal, if tinnion goes hes absolutely spot on with his reasoning.

Totally agree, I still think LJ has his favorites, yes O'leary deserves a chance but no lets bring in 2 new keepers, he won't drop FD for chances missed,(don't rate him, it's no wounder MT wants out, something is going on behind the scenes, dressing room upset maybe? 

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I think there is a balance that has to be drawn for youth players and how much game time they will get in our first team.

Morrell, Vyner, O'Leary, Pring, etc they could stay with us and not go on loan and be on the Bech. Get 10 mins here and there, a cup 90 mins, maybe an unused sub. Thats not great for their development. 35-50 games in the division below will be far better for their development as a player & moving away from their comfort zone, new team mates, etc will be better development for them as a person.

Semenyo has had his loan year out, impressed at Newport, was recalled, didn't seem to feature that much but is now in the 1st team squad.

O'Leary did get some chances last year and was good, but with Bentley, Niki and Gilmartin, I think sending Max on loan is a no brainer.

Pring in hindsight of Dasilvas injury probably would have got game time, however LJ wasn't to know that, so again another loan at a higher level was the obvious choice.

Vyner is one that could have been in an around the first team, but as someone above mentioned I think LJ sees him as a right back and with Hunt and now Pedro, again game time is key so a 'high' level of football, European matches, top end of the Scottish Premiership? I'm OK with that.

Massengo is a one off signing IMO. Not often is an 18 year old highly thought of player from Monaco will be available and willing to join us. Imagine the uproar if it came out we decided not to sign him in light of playing on of our own kids. Massengo 'should' net us a big profit in the next couple of years.

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Do not agree with Tins. It is bot right to say youngsters are being blocked. 2 new young uns (3 if you count Walsh) are in the matchday squad this year (well, would be if not for injuries. Eliason broke through last year. 

I see a pathway. It would have been criminal if we had passed on Messengo because he would have ‘blocked’ a far less talent. It is up to the players (of any age) to show they are good enough and make it impossible for LJ to not pick them. 

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Has Bristol City's academy and its pathway been a success? Well it has had success and the club has profited greatly.

That success, the money has been used to buy players which can only limit opportunity for players within the pathway. Meanwhile Bristol City share facilities with colleges. This cannot be  compared with Chelsea who train in state of the art facilities, and pay kids large sums at 16, or a Southampton. The models are different. Its not he same at most clubs, models vary from club to club and so does the importance of development. 

This pathway is fundamental to the club or it is not. 

I realise that...I think you may have misinterpreted my post.

Something that did cross my mind, was Cisse arriving, and whether that has ruffled a few feathers...who knows!!!

Personally I think we are found well with the pathway at present...some seasons you'll get them come good, other times less. 

Perhaps some are considered not just right yet.

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30 minutes ago, spudski said:

I realise that...I think you may have misinterpreted my post.

Something that did cross my mind, was Cisse arriving, and whether that has ruffled a few feathers...who knows!!!

Personally I think we are found well with the pathway at present...some seasons you'll get them come good, other times less. 

Perhaps some are considered not just right yet.

No I did not misunderstand your post. I suggested a season/seasons ago the academy/pathway should be defined even further as intrinsic to the FC. I was coated off for suggesting this was being dumbed down not bolstered.

The path, the philosophy, the strategy had become vague. Coaches were making the wrong noises. The pathway is in danger of going backwards. When I made refence to this again posters were critical. It was happening and now is public. 

Its cyclic. But the cycle  is development is what we are about, err not so much now, err ..

There are numerous posters who suggest that the pathway actually is not a pathway at all, in the sense that it does not lead to the XI, its to pro football and its ok if the team has no homegrown players in it and the squad is full of players bought in from anywhere … Well as I previously stated tell that to Brian Tinnion, the coaches and the players, prospective players and their parents etc because there was a different story being told to them. 

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It’s a tough one for the club. They’re kind of damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

If the academy were churning out players capable of taking us to the next level, then they’d be on the pitch. The fact that the powers that be feel that we need to bring that quality in from externally, to me, says that the standard that the academy players are being coached to isn’t high enough. 

If, as a club/fanbase, we are content to be a mid table championship side for the foreseeable future, then it’s very different to wanting to be a club that’s serious about being better than 22 other teams. 

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3 hours ago, Trueredsupporter said:

crazy that people suggest the academy and u teams are not a pathway to the first team. That is exactly what they are intended to be unless people are suggesting they are being ran for somebody else. It must be tremendously frustrating for Tinnion etc when they get players to a level and see them pushed back.

There could be an argument that 23's football doesn't represent a true pathway because the football played is so different, hence why we loan as many out as possible. Look at Bolton's first game this season filled with academy players. They had 60 plus percent possession but had like 1 or 2 shots neither were on target. Getting players out on loan is key for development. 

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