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Prinny

Great result, very happy - Now learn the lessons please LJ!

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1 minute ago, Port Said Red said:

The criticism CR was because of the title, “learn a lesson”? Who the **** does he think he is? The OP then stated his OPINION of what LJ should have done today, he could be right he might be wrong, what we do know is that we won which makes LJ right for this game. 

I'm defining right as optimal for the purpose of this thread. So what happened today was wrong, but it worked.

My criticism was of the superior tone of the original post, like any idiot could see he was right. It was just an opinion and I didn’t criticise him, I criticised his “I am an expert” tone.

I make no case to show that I am an expert. And if you want to make up that I have then that's on you. I make no attempt to teach LJ. I stand by the point that I want LJ to learn lessons from what he did this game and do better in the future. See post 48 for my point on tone. 

I think I'm a supporter who has the opportunity to post an opinion that criticises and/or compliments the manager and players whatever the result of a game thanks to this forum.

I'm not hurt by anybody's comments, I will defend what I said though.

Do you think LJ could have done anything better than what he did today?

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5 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

It doesn’t help without afobe. He makes intelligent runs that stretch a defence and give KP  options, they were all closed off today . I know some love fam for his work rate which imo should be a given for any player. The fact is he’s not a very intelligent footballer and doesn’t make defenders work enough off the ball. 

Spot on, when Palmer has Weimann and Afobe buzzing around up front he will show what a class act he is .... when he has Fammy bumbling around getting in everyone’s way, he can’t, he just can’t ... not his fault ...

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27 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

The insinuation is that he's brave because he crossed the ball today. In our previous game we scored two goals from crosses, neither from Hunt. 

There's no insinuation, I'm literally saying he is. Why did you make up that I said we only have one brave player?

Yes we have scored other goals from crosses. I've certainly not denied that! I am absolutely saying that stepping up when others around you are not, and taking people on and putting in effective crosses amounts to football bravery. What are you disagreeing with?

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Prinny said:

I make no case to show that I am an expert. And if you want to make up that I have then that's on you. I make no attempt to teach LJ. I stand by the point that I want LJ to learn lessons from what he did this game and do better in the future. See post 48 for my point on tone. 

I think I'm a supporter who has the opportunity to post an opinion that criticises and/or compliments the manager and players whatever the result of a game thanks to this forum.

I'm not hurt by anybody's comments, I will defend what I said though.

Do you think LJ could have done anything better than what he did today?

An opinion posted as fact, "we could have done better today if we had done things my way".  What's better than 3 points?  You keep digging mate, I don't really care to analyse this stuff because I have never read a book on coaching in my life thankfully, I can see from some on here that it takes away the pure enjoyment of the game. The kind of people who can't watch England win a game 5-3 and think, "wow that was fun".

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32 minutes ago, Prinny said:

There's no insinuation, I'm literally saying he is. Why did you make up that I said we only have one brave player?

Yes we have scored other goals from crosses. I've certainly not denied that! I am absolutely saying that stepping up when others around you are not, and taking people on and putting in effective crosses amounts to football bravery. What are you disagreeing with?

“He’s the bravest player we have as he actually takes people on and puts crosses in.”

By singling him out for that, you are saying no-one else matches him on these criteria. It’s quite clear they do.

I’m sure you know that and you’re as entitled to your opinion as anyone, I might be totally wrong in thinking you’re being a little obnoxious in this whole thread and batting away anyone’s reasonable criticism, but I’m not the only one thinking it so hey. On that note, I might as well leave you to it.

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2 hours ago, dave36 said:

 

LJ still deluded, no point in Fammy starting without team tactics supporting him, we are better without.

If you think my comment about Paterson is off, take a look at the comments on the Derby forum, he could well be back sooner than we thought!

WTF?

You think we shouldn't play our only available and experienced striker (who scored the equaliser) with tactics that doesn't suit him? I hate to piss on your parade, but he scored from a cross that any CF will thrive on. How is that not playing to Fams strengths?

Yeah, LJ is deluded. How dare he make an early sub to make us more of an attacking threat against 10 men. How dare he try and give us more width against a team that tried to stifle the middle of the pitch. How dare he take off Palmer for someone that will try and stretch Stoke from wide positions. 

As for your Patterson comment, I dont even know where to start. He's on loan and he can't come back until the loan period has ended (unless there's a recall clause in January), so it can't be any sooner than we thought.

Yeah, not an excellent performance overall, but we still did what was required and that has always been a sign of a good side. 

Personally, I think there's still a lot more to come from this team considering we have a lot of players who are either new to English football and/or to their teammates. 

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9 hours ago, Prinny said:

What I've absolutely love for people to do, is to say why I'm wrong, rather than we won coz we won and everything is great. Being third is really cool I'm delighted with the club. I want to debate todays game and the problems I saw. Stop making stuff up about what I wrote.

‘Making stuff up’?  How odd.  My criticism was of your thread title and the fact that you think you can teach the manager something.  Can’t see anything made up there.

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9 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Spot on, when Palmer has Weimann and Afobe buzzing around up front he will show what a class act he is .... when he has Fammy bumbling around getting in everyone’s way, he can’t, he just can’t ... not his fault ...

Criticism of Palmer yesterday seems to have been that he was holding the ball too long, which is what a player will do when there is no one making a run ahead of him.

 

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17 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Unlike the OP, I “got” the starting formation. We were hugely open at 4-4-2 last week, so to go back to 5-3-2 and see if Fam could do the Afobe role made sense. I’d also note it’s not not playing with wingers that doesn’t play to Fams strengths - it’s not getting crosses in, and with 5-3-2 and Rowe/Hunt having licence, we should have been able to do that. So starting lineup gets a pass from me, and is not a lesson learnt.

yep, and it also allowed a new back 2 of Moore and Baker to be supplemented by Williams and theoretically stronger.  Gregory’s movement and hustle and bustle caused probs all afternoon.

What didn’t make sense was the sub. It was reasonable to go more attacking, but the sub and reversion to 4-4-2 meant (on paper at least), we’d nullify in a large part the ability of fullbacks to get forward. Nothing wrong with that in theory as long as you can get the width elsewhere, but in going for Semenyo over Eliasson at that point, we ended up with a front six - four of which could play wide - AW, JB, KP, AS, but none of which have naturally their best position wide. That means, with an opposition dropping, you naturally logjam the centre.

I thought it was a heavy handed tactical change, especially with a (usually inept) ref who might try to even it up at some point.  Why not make subtle tweaks, and do what you’d worked on most of the week?  Push the wing backs on and let Moore bring it forward!  I think we ended up in each other’s space by bringing Semenyo on.

Nothing wrong with starting team. Intent right on sub, execution wrong if any criticism in my book

Yep, to a large extent going 442ish made it easier for Stoke to get men behind the ball.  

Too much sense SD....again! ⬆️⬆️⬆️ (Comments above too)

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58 minutes ago, Bullbag said:

Maybe a bit off topic,

Anyone know how Moore's injury is?

Did it look bad?

I missed entirely it was an injury. I thought it was purely tactical after their sending off?

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12 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

An opinion posted as fact, "we could have done better today if we had done things my way".  What's better than 3 points?  You keep digging mate, I don't really care to analyse this stuff because I have never read a book on coaching in my life thankfully, I can see from some on here that it takes away the pure enjoyment of the game. The kind of people who can't watch England win a game 5-3 and think, "wow that was fun".

Yeah I'm totally a different type of football fan to you. I get that, i make that point line one in post one. I love the game though. Why do you keep telling me you don't want to analyse the game? Can't you be happy with the result, and leave others who are also happy with the result but want to discuss the performance and tactics to do that? What is this burning desire of your to shout "I don't care!" You claim purity of enjoyment, so you think the way I enjoy the game is less valid or less worthy than the way you do?

3 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

‘Making stuff up’?  How odd.  My criticism was of your thread title and the fact that you think you can teach the manager something.  Can’t see anything made up there.

That's made up. I'd like him to learn from the game and especially the problems he brought up. Said this multiple times now. You're reading between the lines. Just read the lines. It's not learn MY lessons, it's learn THE lessons.

Neither of you want to talk football.

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We won, Fammy scored and we're 3rd.  Now just need Barnsley to do a job on Leeds.

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2 hours ago, cityexile said:

I missed entirely it was an injury. I thought it was purely tactical after their sending off?

LJ said it was tactical. 

Unless the injury was a whoosh?

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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

LJ said it was tactical. 

Unless the injury was a whoosh?

Ah, does not take a lot to ‘whoosh’ me in fairness!

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2 hours ago, Prinny said:

Yeah I'm totally a different type of football fan to you. I get that, i make that point line one in post one. I love the game though. Why do you keep telling me you don't want to analyse the game? Can't you be happy with the result, and leave others who are also happy with the result but want to discuss the performance and tactics to do that? What is this burning desire of your to shout "I don't care!" You claim purity of enjoyment, so you think the way I enjoy the game is less valid or less worthy than the way you do?

That's made up. I'd like him to learn from the game and especially the problems he brought up. Said this multiple times now. You're reading between the lines. Just read the lines. It's not learn MY lessons, it's learn THE lessons.

Neither of you want to talk football.

You’re right, bored with you now. 

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16 hours ago, CotswoldRed said:

That's it. Criticise the poster who made the effort to state his point and elaborate. 

I wasn't there today so can't offer any informed input, but if there's one thing I would love LJ to do better, it would be the simple stuff. Playing simple percentages. Retaining the ball with simple passes. 

We must be one of the worst teams in the league for losing possession to unforced errors. 

Else, doing a good job right now. 

Isn't that what LJ did as a player? And received heavy criticism for it! 

Ultimately, whatever tactics and instructions LJ sets and gives, it's down to the players to implement them. I think we will see a vast improvement when Nagy returns.

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2 hours ago, Prinny said:

Yeah I'm totally a different type of football fan to you. I get that, i make that point line one in post one. I love the game though. Why do you keep telling me you don't want to analyse the game? Can't you be happy with the result, and leave others who are also happy with the result but want to discuss the performance and tactics to do that? What is this burning desire of your to shout "I don't care!" You claim purity of enjoyment, so you think the way I enjoy the game is less valid or less worthy than the way you do?

That's made up. I'd like him to learn from the game and especially the problems he brought up. Said this multiple times now. You're reading between the lines. Just read the lines. It's not learn MY lessons, it's learn THE lessons.

Neither of you want to talk football.

If you want to talk football, let's talk football, not just the negatives but the overall performance, which ultimately saw us win.

You are not talking football, you are bashing LJ and concentrating on the negatives. 

Edited by Up The City!

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2 hours ago, BigTone said:

We won, Fammy scored and we're 3rd.  Now just need Barnsley to do a job on Leeds.

Make that 4th

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2 hours ago, Prinny said:

Yeah I'm totally a different type of football fan to you. I get that, i make that point line one in post one. I love the game though. Why do you keep telling me you don't want to analyse the game? Can't you be happy with the result, and leave others who are also happy with the result but want to discuss the performance and tactics to do that? What is this burning desire of your to shout "I don't care!" You claim purity of enjoyment, so you think the way I enjoy the game is less valid or less worthy than the way you do?

 

Probably time to switch off the computer and go outside mate. You'll enjoy it.

Edited by Robin1988

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Only on otib could someone start a thread having a go at the manager after we had just gone to 3 playing some great football, 

The OP really needs to have a look at him self, I get it you don't like Johnson but really come on he's done well for us so far this season 

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21 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Make that 4th

There's always someone to put a damper on things !  :)

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The last 3/4 seasons show that LJ has learned, and continues to learn lessons.

This is evidenced by the season on season improvement in both finishing positions but also quality of performance. It is also demonstrated by the improvement in our recruitment so that we now have a quality of player that most would never have imagined possible.

No matter how good a team or manager, there will always be games that disappoint ( hope Pep learns lessons from the defeat at Norwich yesterday!) but that can be due to any number of factors, including players being off their game or not following the coach's instructions.

This doesn't mean he won't make mistakes, but hopefully with growing experience and success the mistakes will be fewer and outweighed by the sucesses.

 

Edited by downendcity
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10 minutes ago, downendcity said:

The last 3/4 seasons show that LJ has learned, and continues to learn lessons.

This is evidenced by the season on season improvement in both finishing positions but also quality of performance. It is also demonstrated by the improvement in our recruitment so that we now have a quality of player that most would never have imagined possible.

No matter how good a team or manager, there will always be games that disappoint ( hope Pep learns lessons from the defeat at Norwich yesterday!) but that can be due to any number of factors, including players being off their game or not following the coach's instructions.

This doesn't mean he won't make mistakes, but hopefully with growing experience and success the mistakes will be fewer and outweighed by the sucesses.

 

Very good comments. However, I well understand how some are unhappy with our Head Coach. I and others could list our reservations about him, but immediately after our third 2-1 away win on the bounce is hardly the best time to to start blasting LJ with both barrels.

The Championship is one of the most competitive leagues in the world. Stoke City may be bottom with only one point from their first six matches. Yet they took the lead and probably still had enough opportunities to have scraped a win even with only ten players.

So, I'll accept our shortcomings whenever we bring home three points from clubs where we have traditionally lost for decades.

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13 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Very good comments. However, I well understand how some are unhappy with our Head Coach. I and others could list our reservations about him, but immediately after our third 2-1 away win on the bounce is hardly the best time to to start blasting LJ with both barrels.

The Championship is one of the most competitive leagues in the world. Stoke City may be bottom with only one point from their first six matches. Yet they took the lead and probably still had enough opportunities to have scraped a win even with only ten players.

So, I'll accept our shortcomings whenever we bring home three points from clubs where we have traditionally lost for decades.

Yep, he does things I wouldn’t do, but he’s the head-coach seeing the whole picture 24/7...and with him it probably is pretty close to 24/7.

I rarely criticise starting line-ups, because there is likely to be good reason why he’s picked who he has.  Think I go back to 17/18 when we loaned Vyner out, continued playing Wright through injury, rather than Pisano, and Magnússon wasn’t getting game time too....as the last time I was critical.  

Yesterday wasn’t great performance wise, so in some respects the OP is right to be critical.  But, call me old-fashioned, but I feel there is another team out there trying to stop us play the way we want to, and on the pitch you sometimes can’t do a lot about that....especially when players capable of top performances decide it’s their day to parade their skills.  We hung in there a bit first half, but eventually created the couple of key opportunities.

We can all say we should’ve done x or y or z, but ultimately at 1-0 down, LJ took Moore off, brought Semenyo on, changed it up, and we won 2-1.  Perhaps we didn’t see the gradual gaining of control.  Even just having got back at 1-1, he took Palmer off, perhaps at a point where most of us thought he might click into gear and win the game for us.  Ultimately it was Eliasson (Palmer’s replacement) causing the mistake at the far post to put us 2-1 up.  I (personally) would’ve left us 5212 for longer, but it’s difficult to criticise LJ too much (if at all) when you come from 1-0 down to win 2-1.  Easy to say it was against 10 men, but plenty of teams don’t overturn a result when playing against 10.  

Think we just need to accept that LJ does know better than us....but we can still gave our views.

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16 hours ago, Robin1988 said:

“He’s the bravest player we have as he actually takes people on and puts crosses in.”

By singling him out for that, you are saying no-one else matches him on these criteria. It’s quite clear they do.

I’m sure you know that and you’re as entitled to your opinion as anyone, I might be totally wrong in thinking you’re being a little obnoxious in this whole thread and batting away anyone’s reasonable criticism, but I’m not the only one thinking it so hey. On that note, I might as well leave you to it.

It took you a long time to actually get to making a point that counters something I actually said! After making things up to disagree with! 

I think it was "quite clear" that Jack Hunt was braver yesterday than the other players based on that criteria yes. Which other players did that yesterday as much as he did in your view?

1 hour ago, Robin1988 said:
 

Probably time to switch off the computer and go outside mate. You'll enjoy it.

  "you’re being a little obnoxious"

It's not batting away reasonable criticism it's batting away posts who make up things that I've said. Like this.

59 minutes ago, winsaw said:

Only on otib could someone start a thread having a go at the manager after we had just gone to 3 playing some great football, 

The OP really needs to have a look at him self, I get it you don't like Johnson but really come on he's done well for us so far this season 

So I don't ever say this.

But this poster has made up that I don't like Lee Johnson. When I do. Why would someone do that?

You also have made things up that I did not write. Why did you?

18 hours ago, Robin1988 said:

The bit where we only have one brave player, apparently on the basis of one game.
We’ve done bloody well to win 4 out of 6 with 10 sissies.

Remember that?

That's why you get batted away. Because you made stuff up. It's not reasonable to make things up. I'm calling you out on it. If you find being called out for making stuff up obnoxious then don't make things up! If you posted what you posted and say why in the top post I quoted we can have a conversation about the game. Why didn't you do that first?

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We are in a slightly worse league position today than we were last year.

Last Year: P7 W4 D2 L1 GD6 Pts14  Position 3rd

This Year: P7 W4 D2 L1 GD4  Pts14 Position 4th

We are doing fine under LJ.

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We're doing fine and especially with all of the injuries etc, the disruption this can cause- more than fine in fact.

The one possible reservation I have is the relative lack of possession- I know yesterday we had a load but that possession, that sense of control- not so sure we always have it. Certainly possible to control games without the ball, but we do concede quite a lot of chances and I wonder how sustainable that is. I do believe we'll be pushing top 6 and as said considering all the absentees, it's been a great start!

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22 hours ago, Up The City! said:

No threat in behind? How the hell can Palmer thread through exquisite through balls that he is capable of, when Stoke are camped on their own goal line?

It's hard to do that. But there was a break which showed the problem. Palmer was running forwards and the people ahead of him weren't making good runs quickly so he ultimately didn't pass the ball and got tackled. I think eventually there was a good pass on but it took so long to develop the chance was lost.

He can also play great balls to full backs running on even when the opposition is defending. The pass at Birmingham City to Tommy Rowe is a great example of that.

LJ said he put on another forward to press them. That made them defend deeper. If he wanted to do that and take away Palmer's strengths why didn't he take off Palmer first? He ended up sticking Weimann wide when we could have done Moore for Eliasson to make that a better fit too.

22 hours ago, Up The City! said:

You didn't say one single thing about the positives of LJs management, just totally bashed him, after a win...

Why do I need to? I think he performed poorly yesterday. It worked but that doesn't mean it's good or the right (optimal) thing to do hence the discussion!

1 hour ago, Up The City! said:

If you want to talk football, let's talk football, not just the negatives but the overall performance, which ultimately saw us win.

You are not talking football, you are bashing LJ and concentrating on the negatives. 

That doesn't make sense. Talking football has to be talking about all of the game? I'm not allowed to just focus on either the positive or negative side or make a point about a narrower context? Please edit your positive comments to include all the negative viewpoints then!

So the overall, bad start, go a goal down, outplayed, could have been 2-3 down, bad tactical change bringing on Semenyo who did very little except congest the middle of the field. We did have a chance with Weimann and one with Semenyo though but we did not play well, and ultimately those chances weren't successful. Positive part was the good combination of half time "livener", and or the tactical change to create width finally and Jack Hunt stepping up, bad tactical change then to sit back not go for another goal. I don't think there were a huge amount of positive things from LJ yesterday so the majority of my comments about LJ yesterday will be negative.

I was very positive about Jack Hunt.

What do you think were the positive aspects of LJs management yesterday? What did he do well in your view?

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2 hours ago, Prinny said:

It took you a long time to actually get to making a point that counters something I actually said! After making things up to disagree with! 

I think it was "quite clear" that Jack Hunt was braver yesterday than the other players based on that criteria yes. Which other players did that yesterday as much as he did in your view?

Strangely, after being "called out" for not quoting your exact wording, being repeatedly belittled and your flat refusal to accept any sort of alternative viewpoint, I've lost any enthusiasm to engage you. It looks like I'm not the only one.

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1 hour ago, Prinny said:

It's hard to do that. But there was a break which showed the problem. Palmer was running forwards and the people ahead of him weren't making good runs quickly so he ultimately didn't pass the ball and got tackled. I think eventually there was a good pass on but it took so long to develop the chance was lost.

He can also play great balls to full backs running on even when the opposition is defending. The pass at Birmingham City to Tommy Rowe is a great example of that.

LJ said he put on another forward to press them. That made them defend deeper. If he wanted to do that and take away Palmer's strengths why didn't he take off Palmer first? He ended up sticking Weimann wide when we could have done Moore for Eliasson to make that a better fit too.

Why do I need to? I think he performed poorly yesterday. It worked but that doesn't mean it's good or the right (optimal) thing to do hence the discussion!

That doesn't make sense. Talking football has to be talking about all of the game? I'm not allowed to just focus on either the positive or negative side or make a point about a narrower context? Please edit your positive comments to include all the negative viewpoints then!

So the overall, bad start, go a goal down, outplayed, could have been 2-3 down, bad tactical change bringing on Semenyo who did very little except congest the middle of the field. We did have a chance with Weimann and one with Semenyo though but we did not play well, and ultimately those chances weren't successful. Positive part was the good combination of half time "livener", and or the tactical change to create width finally and Jack Hunt stepping up, bad tactical change then to sit back not go for another goal. I don't think there were a huge amount of positive things from LJ yesterday so the majority of my comments about LJ yesterday will be negative.

I was very positive about Jack Hunt.

What do you think were the positive aspects of LJs management yesterday? What did he do well in your view?

I'm pretty sure you must be a sag.

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1 hour ago, Robin1988 said:

Strangely, after being "called out" for not quoting your exact wording, being repeatedly belittled and your flat refusal to accept any sort of alternative viewpoint, I've lost any enthusiasm to engage you. It looks like I'm not the only one.

I agree that I've belittled you posts. I would absolutely say that making stuff up about another posters views to make a point deserves belittling. It is useless after all. Why did you do that by the way? Why do you keep doing so? I don't think YOU are useless by the way. You've written you were belittled and that was not the intent. Your posts are not you! I hope!

I accept a wide variety of views, I just don't have to agree with them so that's not true either. I'd like to discuss them but we have posters like you who make stuff up rather than discussing the reality of what's been said. Why you always lying?

You've engaged with this thread to tell me you're not engaging with me. I do wonder if you shouldn't learn the lessons you said about turning the computer off and going outside? Please.

Unless you want to actually talk about football in any way that relates to reality, I think I'll leave this convo here.

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On 14/09/2019 at 19:34, Numero Uno said:

Let’s also forget the fact that Stoke will not be bottom of the table for too much longer.

They won't? Depends on Huddersfield really, they will be bottom three for quite some time to come yet.

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2 minutes ago, cheshire_red said:

They won't? Depends on Huddersfield really, they will be bottom three for quite some time to come yet.

Obviously they have got into a position where they have to win games just to catch up and that will take a month or two.....but they will imo.

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16 hours ago, Prinny said:

I agree that I've belittled you posts. I would absolutely say that making stuff up about another posters views to make a point deserves belittling. It is useless after all. Why did you do that by the way? Why do you keep doing so? I don't think YOU are useless by the way. You've written you were belittled and that was not the intent. Your posts are not you! I hope!

I accept a wide variety of views, I just don't have to agree with them so that's not true either. I'd like to discuss them but we have posters like you who make stuff up rather than discussing the reality of what's been said. Why you always lying?

You've engaged with this thread to tell me you're not engaging with me. I do wonder if you shouldn't learn the lessons you said about turning the computer off and going outside? Please.

Unless you want to actually talk about football in any way that relates to reality, I think I'll leave this convo here.

And here's me hoping for an engagement and the prospect of an OTIB wedding.

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11 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I’m already spoken for Tone but thanks anyway.

:wub:

Ok, but I will always be there for you xx

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On 14/09/2019 at 19:12, David Brent said:

I’ll say it..we won, Fam scored, 3 points, 3rd. That’ll do nicely for me. We won’t play against ten man Stoke every week so don’t expect those tactics from LJ every week.

Well this is it. I think the point of the OP is we could get a result on Saturday because we played the worst team in the league and they had a man sent off. Against better teams, with those tactics, we would struggle.

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4 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Well this is it. I think the point of the OP is we could get a result on Saturday because we played the worst team in the league and they had a man sent off. Against better teams, with those tactics, we would struggle.

I don’t believe we would play the same tactics against 11 man Stoke. Hopefully not anyway. The early red card changes the game completely. If I had any criticism it would be the change was too soon.

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On 15/09/2019 at 17:08, Davefevs said:

Think we just need to accept that LJ does know better than us....but we can still gave our views.

He's certainly proving many of us wrong, he consistently finds a way to get good performances out of players and he seems to know a lot about matching our players with the opposition's strengths/weaknesses/changes.

That said, I think the original post is a good one. Strip away all the barking from everyone about we won what is there to criticise Johnson himself would be at the front of the queue to say there is always something to improve. And playing Fam - biggest threat: aerial in the box - with less crosses arriving on his bonce than other teams/than play to his best asset does seem daft.

I haven't bothered reading the criticism - if that's the word - of Fam on here, as my mates tell me there is. Like every single player up and down the world, he's good at some things, not so good at others. Back to goal - not very good. Ball coming in inside the box - good. So play to his strength or else sell him, to be brutal. Why keep a player, no matter how good, if you're not going to build around what he does best, esp with a striker. And if he's not good enough to build things around (fair point) and it's going to be around Palmer when Afobe doesn't play, or whatever the manager decides, then I'm not sure Fam is suited when playing a pivotal role on his own. 

Elliasson not starting away from home is understandable, although he is improving in his defensive duties. We don't really have anyone else who can consistently put a cross on Fam's bonce - we should all be honest and say Jack Hunt's delivery is inconsistent. He assisted two goals on Sat, there's no argument from me. But there are plenty of other balls in that drift/go too far/end up over the by-line. If he was such a brilliant crosser of the ball he'd be playing for a better team than us. 

To look back at davefvs last point, then: my view on this thread is that if we play Fam we need to provide with more/better service to his head in front of goal, or his feet, he ain't bad with them either. And LJ does know better in that he sees the players every day, asks them to do X and we interpret that sometimes as Y. He will have his reasons to play Fam (yes, Afob's was ineligible, haha) in the formation he did, but I agree that the original poster has something in that we could make more of him. No manager or player or Chief Exec is untouchable and best use of Fam when he plays is an area for improvement, I'd say.

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