Northern Red Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 Saracens docked 35 points and fined £5m for breaching salary cap regulations. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50300756 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B1ackbird Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 Five million pound fine and a 35 point deduction, can anyone see that reduced on appeal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NcnsBcfc Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 minute ago, B1ackbird said: Five million pound fine and a 35 point deduction, can anyone see that reduced on appeal? Just seen that. I'm guessing the other clubs in the Prem are safe from relegation now. Massive fine though + points deduction, and sends out a clear message. They will do well to keep that team together in the championship next season as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 Ouch. On the plus side a great chance for Bristol this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kit Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 I dont think they would have been relegated previous seasons with that deduction. It's just a season without European rugby unless their team is dramatically worse than the last few years. Their bigger problem will be finding a new way to circumvent the wage cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 They should be kicked out of the European Cup as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, MichaelRobartes said: They should be kicked out of the European Cup as well. If they win it will they qualify for it again next season? If so, then they should definitely be thrown out. Another question is whether they should be stripped of some of their honours over the past however many years they've been doing this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted November 5, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 The biggest shame is that Bath are no longer bottom of the league! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted November 5, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: If they win it will they qualify for it again next season? Yeah the holder automatically qualifies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFC II Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 Not enough imo. Firstly, 35 point reduction won’t see them go down, they’ll still be playing premiership rugby next season, will just have to settle with the challenge cup (unless they win the champions cup again of course...) Personally I’d have deducted them 35 points, not allowed them to have any marquee players (2 players excluded from the salary cap) for the next 3 years and forced them to get rid of enough players so they are within the £7 million that every other club is sticking to, including the two marquee signings. Then strip them of their trophies from the last couple of seasons as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 I guess as they have already launched their appeal we shall have to wait & see. But 35pts deduction probably wouldn't see them relegated to the Champ. They should be stripped of all the titles won in the period for which the breaches have been found. I guess the punishment is the least they could have expected but it will be interesting to see what happens to the squad now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: If they win it will they qualify for it again next season? If so, then they should definitely be thrown out. Another question is whether they should be stripped of some of their honours over the past however many years they've been doing this... They change the rules every season since the Premiership and Top14 clubs hijacked the competition, so I'm not sure anymore. Edit: cheers Phantom. Sarries unfairly stopped us from reaching the final last season, we have them in our pool again now. They've stopped Exeter winning some more Premiership titles. I'll be amazed if there are no further recriminations from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 Well done the RFU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted November 5, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, MichaelRobartes said: They change the rules every season since the Premiership and Top14 clubs hijacked the competition, so I'm not sure anymore. Edit: cheers Phantom. Sarries unfairly stopped us from reaching the final last season, we have them in our pool again now. They've stopped Exeter winning some more Premiership titles. I'll be amazed if there are no further recriminations from this. Bit more info In May 2017, it was announced that, starting with qualification for the 2018–19 Champions Cup, the play-off will be scrapped in favour of awarding the berth using the following criteria: Champions Cup winner, if not already qualified. European Rugby Challenge Cup winner, if not already qualified. Challenge Cup losing finalist, if not already qualified. Challenge Cup semi-finalist, if one has not already qualified (or the winner of a play-off between the semi-finalists, if both have not already qualified). Highest ranked non-qualified club by virtue of league position from the same league as the Champions Cup winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Well done the RFU. I don't know how this compares to football's FFP rules but if this can happen in one sport to a big club then maybe the Premier league and EFL could take note? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elhombrecito Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 I posted in the thread in the main forum, but I don't really see this as a severe punishment at all. They've systematically abused the salary cap system for years in order to get the best players, and racked up numerous Premiership and Champions Cup titles as a result. And their punishment? They have to endure the indigity of finishing in the bottom half of the table for one season (they won't get relegated) and possibly not qualifying for the Champions Cup for one year. Pretty weak if you ask me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 Interesting thread (from a solicitor and rugby fan) here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 Interesting. So their appeal will effectively be a judicial review, they can't actually challenge the merits of the decision. They will have to prove that the panel erred in law or that the penalty and fine is irrational (seems unlikely they'd win on that basis). Also, at the same time they were breaching the salary cap they went cap in hand to Barnet Council (a local authority that has been subject to huge government spending cuts) to get them to loan them money for a new stand! That is really shocking behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Interesting. So their appeal will effectively be a judicial review, they can't actually challenge the merits of the decision. They will have to prove that the panel erred in law or that the penalty and fine is irrational (seems unlikely they'd win on that basis). Also, at the same time they were breaching the salary cap they went cap in hand to Barnet Council (a local authority that has been subject to huge government spending cuts) to get them to loan them money for a new stand! That is really shocking behaviour. That's why nobody else likes them! Seriously, Sarries have put together an absolutely fantastic team but this is financial doping. If these avenues of topping up their stars' salaries are closed to them, you'd think that their squad would unravel over the next couple of seasons. Surely they can't afford to keep them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted November 5, 2019 Admin Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 3 hours ago, phantom said: The biggest shame is that Bath are no longer bottom of the league! Not all bad, whilst the appeal is progressing the points deduction is lifted so Barf are back on the bottom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 Interesting to note that. Don't see how they win it personally! Over 3 years eh...seems a bit like FFP! Assumed clubs were just tested annually. Wonder if it sets a precedent that an appeal of say an FFP points deduction would be like this, a judicial review, post Arbitration etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 Not a good look for Sarries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 51 minutes ago, MichaelRobartes said: Not a good look for Sarries. Good. Let's hope they get in more trouble! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 10 minutes ago, CyderInACan said: Good. Let's hope they get in more trouble! Not turning up to the launch does look suspicious. They could have easily batted away questions about the cap by saying that it was ongoing and they were looking forward to defending their European title. They won't win any friends or support this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erithacus Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 I'm old enough to remember when Rugby Union was considered a bastion of 'amateur' sport and prided itself on that. There were whispers about boot money but it was largely low key and not subject to a spotlight. However, in today's modern and all so cynical 'professionional' era it seems they are travelling down the same route as us footballers. How times change, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 @Woodsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-7658185/Rugby-Premiership-clubs-gang-force-civil-action-against-Saracens.html Lessons for Championship clubs with the current ongoing issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 Sarries are in the shit. This is going to run on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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