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spudski

Taylor Moore...

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16 hours ago, Harry said:

Not sure what the problem is with this. 
A skipper was required for the day and Moore put himself forward. 
Hats off to him for stepping up and having the desire to better himself. 
Hats off to LJ for empowering Moore and allowing him to take control of his own development. 
It’s also not as if Moore has never been a skipper - he captained England at 3 different age groups. 
 

Some might say this is an example of being a good coach and leader. Others will call LJ a dick. You pays yer money you takes yer choice. 

I dunno if you've noticed, but at the moment literally everything that LJ does or doesn't do is the wrong thing.

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28 minutes ago, hodge said:

Moore? He's been moved out to RB a few times and kept on rather than just a straight CB for CB swap so not the go to

In the league I think he's started only 14 of the 26 and of those he's been subbed 6 times (3 before the 2nd half and 5 before the hour mark.) Given his performances if that isn't go to expendable I don't know what is?

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19 hours ago, Shtanley said:

LJ berates TM all the time, how many times did Kalas give away possession today? Don't recall LJ ever having a go at him.

TM did a couple of times and always received a massive earful from LJ.

maybe that’s because that’s how TM takes criticism and improves? Some players hate a bollocking and others prefer iT

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1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

 

 

maybe that’s because that’s how TM takes criticism and improves? Some players hate a bollocking and others prefer iT

Context would need to applied, how many of those 6 were we losing at half time, how many did we change formation? For a guy stepping up from league 1 he's more likely to be sacrificed than Kalas or Williams

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I must say I was quite vocal that TM wouldn’t make it here . My attitude has changed as I think he’s ever improving and is comfortable bringing the ball out . 

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2 minutes ago, shelts said:

I must say I was quite vocal that TM wouldn’t make it here . My attitude has changed as I think he’s ever improving and is comfortable bringing the ball out . 

I thought he would (v Hull EFL Cup and Bury loan), then I thought he wouldn’t (Cheltenham loan) then I thought he would again (early Southend loan), then I thought he wouldn’t again (latter time at Southend), then I thought he will (now). 😂😂😂

Just shows that development lines aren’t often very straight!

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21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I thought he would (v Hull EFL Cup and Bury loan), then I thought he wouldn’t (Cheltenham loan) then I thought he would again (early Southend loan), then I thought he wouldn’t again (latter time at Southend), then I thought he will (now). 😂😂😂

Just shows that development lines aren’t often very straight!

He will learn lots off of Williams on the dark arts of defending which will only improve him . It’s never easy for the younger players as we have a fair bit of clout in the transfer market being able to buy more of the finished article . We have lots of lads out on loan . We seem to struggle at right fullback and Zach is at Aberdeen , midfield could do with something different Morrell ?!

I suppose we have to be patient 

 

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On 04/01/2020 at 21:58, Prinny said:

I see potential but I feel he's massively over hyped on here. People are acting like he's Adam Webster 2.0 and he's waaay off IMO. Don't get me wrong, not writing him off, i like him the person, i like his desire to get better, his seeming professionalism. I have zero intention to get rid of him. Taylor Moore is what's right with our model and what's wrong with it. You have a young player with all the intangibles who's out there getting better but making mistakes. This will help us long term but hurts us short term. However, right now...

There's so many really bad things he does. Today is no exception. There's a moment in the first five or so minutes where he gets out muscled and turned when he awkwardly tries to nick the ball from behind their player. There's two decisions which work. Stay behind and let them get it under control, or clatter through them and give a foul. He delicately wafts a leg at it, and ends up off balance before being turned.

Then there's his attempts to bring the ball out.. Adam Webster he is not. There were a couple of really bad ones today. I like that he tries. But especially on his left foot, it's inconsistent to say the least. It looks awkward. Like he's doing the thing we all know he needs to do, and yet even he doesn't believe he should be doing it. There's the very obvious concentration lapses and he's not the type to really put his head in where it hurts. Then there's getting burned by their 11 for pace. Kalas did too.

Which leaves me wondering, what type of player is he exactly? Jack of all trades centre back. Ok Physically, Ok technically, Ok mentally. So he's Ok. And Ok isn't good enough for where we want to be. He needs to get better, he seems to want to get better which is great. But his decision making and concentration is inconsistent.

What is Taylor Moore GREAT at? Let's use a Johnsonism. What's his USP? Character? Professionalism?

He's definitely hurt playing left side in a two. We've seen that a few times now and it's looked awkward each time. Also Kalas is not helping him with distribution because he's been awful since returning from injury IMO. And left central defender is the number two priority to sort out because we're kinda stuck with Kalas. Who has to be injured right? I mean generally, not just at the end of the game. Just looks off the pace.

I think a lot of fans like him the person. They like the story about the contract. They seem to be eating up the story about the captaincy. You don't need an armband to be a leader, it's a prop. It's a crutch. You can't fake being the leader. I don't know about following someone who is like "please sir, can i be the leader sir?". It comes across as very school boyish to me. He's replaced Joe Bryan as the nicest of the nice boys we have in our team. I don't really want that in a central defender. I don't think a collection of nice lads is a successful route. I don't know the dressing room dynamic, maybe it's fine and everyone loves that. I think it's an odd thing to do.

He's 22, he's played 100 games. It's his first full season in the championship and because he's smart I'm sure he's learning lessons. But on the job training in a promotion push is leading to some bad film. I think him playing alongside Baker will be interesting. Baker doesn't communicate well IMO, but is that physical beast who's technically limited. They both get to play in their natural sides and if Moore is as good as people think, he'll shine. If he is a good communicator/leader, if he is a good distributor, Baker would cover his weaknesses and vice versa. 

TLDR He's an inconsistent 6/10 championship player, we're needing 7-8s. There's a reason we need a central defender. He has potential but don't ignore all the blatant errors he's making just because you like him. I hope that will iron out with experience, but not sure because he has played a fair amount of games that he will ever go for £15 million to a Premier League team. And woof is Kalas not helping him. I actually think 3/4 choice central defender is the right level for him in our squad right now.

I broadly agree but with the caveat that 22 is still very young for a defender. For example, Aden Flint was still an Alfreton Town Player at Moore’s age, still looked a bit shaky in League 1 when he joined us at 24 and between 24 and 26 became a Championship level defender.

I think wanting to improve is half the battle. He does badly need to work on his concentration for sure but, for me, that is the only area of the game where I think he needs to do psychological work as well as developing the technical and physical attributes that come with age and experience. I also am unconvinced he is anywhere near as much of a “nice guy” as he comes across. He does seem an affable chap but I think he is a lot more competitive on the pitch than he sometimes gets credit for.

I agree he has his flaws but I am extremely impressed by how much he has improved in a short time and can see no reason why, if he has the mentality and desire to improve that appears to be the case, he can’t come on leaps and bounds over the next couple of years. Defenders don’t tend to hit their best until 26 or 27 so he has time on his side.

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2 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I broadly agree but with the caveat that 22 is still very young for a defender. For example, Aden Flint was still an Alfreton Town Player at Moore’s age, still looked a bit shaky in League 1 when he joined us at 24 and between 24 and 26 became a Championship level defender.

I think wanting to improve is half the battle. He does badly need to work on his concentration for sure but, for me, that is the only area of the game where I think he needs to do psychological work as well as developing the technical and physical attributes that come with age and experience. I also am unconvinced he is anywhere near as much of a “nice guy” as he comes across. He does seem an affable chap but I think he is a lot more competitive on the pitch than he sometimes gets credit for.

I agree he has his flaws but I am extremely impressed by how much he has improved in a short time and can see no reason why, if he has the mentality and desire to improve that appears to be the case, he can’t come on leaps and bounds over the next couple of years. Defenders don’t tend to hit their best until 26 or 27 so he has time on his side.

Aden Flint's a different example because of his career history IMO. It's pretty reasonable to assume that a player coming through non league if they have the talent will start to fulfil it with exposure to better training and better teammates. Taylor Moore is the exact opposite in terms of his development. 22 is young, but I don't recall too many players getting hugely "technically" better past that age. Different players have different career arcs, so we'll wait and see. Perhaps his recent transformation will drastically change his career. I hope so.

Taylor Moore might have time on his side, but you can also see why LJ wants an upgrade. NOW.

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On 04/01/2020 at 19:46, cidercity1987 said:

The only player in credit at the moment other than Eliasson

Dave? Playing excellently at the moment in my opinion

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On 04/01/2020 at 21:58, Prinny said:

I see potential but I feel he's massively over hyped on here. People are acting like he's Adam Webster 2.0 and he's waaay off IMO. Don't get me wrong, not writing him off, i like him the person, i like his desire to get better, his seeming professionalism. I have zero intention to get rid of him. Taylor Moore is what's right with our model and what's wrong with it. You have a young player with all the intangibles who's out there getting better but making mistakes. This will help us long term but hurts us short term. However, right now...

There's so many really bad things he does. Today is no exception. There's a moment in the first five or so minutes where he gets out muscled and turned when he awkwardly tries to nick the ball from behind their player. There's two decisions which work. Stay behind and let them get it under control, or clatter through them and give a foul. He delicately wafts a leg at it, and ends up off balance before being turned.

Then there's his attempts to bring the ball out.. Adam Webster he is not. There were a couple of really bad ones today. I like that he tries. But especially on his left foot, it's inconsistent to say the least. It looks awkward. Like he's doing the thing we all know he needs to do, and yet even he doesn't believe he should be doing it. There's the very obvious concentration lapses and he's not the type to really put his head in where it hurts. Then there's getting burned by their 11 for pace. Kalas did too.

Which leaves me wondering, what type of player is he exactly? Jack of all trades centre back. Ok Physically, Ok technically, Ok mentally. So he's Ok. And Ok isn't good enough for where we want to be. He needs to get better, he seems to want to get better which is great. But his decision making and concentration is inconsistent.

What is Taylor Moore GREAT at? Let's use a Johnsonism. What's his USP? Character? Professionalism?

He's definitely hurt playing left side in a two. We've seen that a few times now and it's looked awkward each time. Also Kalas is not helping him with distribution because he's been awful since returning from injury IMO. And left central defender is the number two priority to sort out because we're kinda stuck with Kalas. Who has to be injured right? I mean generally, not just at the end of the game. Just looks off the pace.

I think a lot of fans like him the person. They like the story about the contract. They seem to be eating up the story about the captaincy. You don't need an armband to be a leader, it's a prop. It's a crutch. You can't fake being the leader. I don't know about following someone who is like "please sir, can i be the leader sir?". It comes across as very school boyish to me. He's replaced Joe Bryan as the nicest of the nice boys we have in our team. I don't really want that in a central defender. I don't think a collection of nice lads is a successful route. I don't know the dressing room dynamic, maybe it's fine and everyone loves that. I think it's an odd thing to do.

He's 22, he's played 100 games. It's his first full season in the championship and because he's smart I'm sure he's learning lessons. But on the job training in a promotion push is leading to some bad film. I think him playing alongside Baker will be interesting. Baker doesn't communicate well IMO, but is that physical beast who's technically limited. They both get to play in their natural sides and if Moore is as good as people think, he'll shine. If he is a good communicator/leader, if he is a good distributor, Baker would cover his weaknesses and vice versa. 

TLDR He's an inconsistent 6/10 championship player, we're needing 7-8s. There's a reason we need a central defender. He has potential but don't ignore all the blatant errors he's making just because you like him. I hope that will iron out with experience, but not sure because he has played a fair amount of games that he will ever go for £15 million to a Premier League team. And woof is Kalas not helping him. I actually think 3/4 choice central defender is the right level for him in our squad right now.

I agree with much of the above post, and would like to add a few "damn statistics,"

Apologies for memory failures, but it went roughly something like this,

Aerial duels won.

TM - 43%

Baker/Kalas - 72 & 78%

To add to this, TM only attempted approx 55 & 60% of each of the other two.

No matter how well he played in the previous match, if you are expecting to face a long ball aerial bombardment or decent wingers, TM should be way down the pecking order.

If Bailey Wright was chosen in the above scenario with those stats, I feel it would be another case of "Johnson doesn't know what he's doing" on here.

However, the OTIB Golden Boy is usually "Sacrificed," "Scapegoated," or "Thrown under the bus."

Don't get me wrong. I think TM is a talented player with a great attitude, and I'm very glad he's here.

I just find it strange that on here some players are eulogised and others always receive vitriolic abuse regardless of the realities of their performance.

 

 

 

On 04/01/2020 at 21:58, Prinny said:

I see potential but I feel he's massively over hyped on here. People are acting like he's Adam Webster 2.0 and he's waaay off IMO. Don't get me wrong, not writing him off, i like him the person, i like his desire to get better, his seeming professionalism. I have zero intention to get rid of him. Taylor Moore is what's right with our model and what's wrong with it. You have a young player with all the intangibles who's out there getting better but making mistakes. This will help us long term but hurts us short term. However, right now...

There's so many really bad things he does. Today is no exception. There's a moment in the first five or so minutes where he gets out muscled and turned when he awkwardly tries to nick the ball from behind their player. There's two decisions which work. Stay behind and let them get it under control, or clatter through them and give a foul. He delicately wafts a leg at it, and ends up off balance before being turned.

Then there's his attempts to bring the ball out.. Adam Webster he is not. There were a couple of really bad ones today. I like that he tries. But especially on his left foot, it's inconsistent to say the least. It looks awkward. Like he's doing the thing we all know he needs to do, and yet even he doesn't believe he should be doing it. There's the very obvious concentration lapses and he's not the type to really put his head in where it hurts. Then there's getting burned by their 11 for pace. Kalas did too.

Which leaves me wondering, what type of player is he exactly? Jack of all trades centre back. Ok Physically, Ok technically, Ok mentally. So he's Ok. And Ok isn't good enough for where we want to be. He needs to get better, he seems to want to get better which is great. But his decision making and concentration is inconsistent.

What is Taylor Moore GREAT at? Let's use a Johnsonism. What's his USP? Character? Professionalism?

He's definitely hurt playing left side in a two. We've seen that a few times now and it's looked awkward each time. Also Kalas is not helping him with distribution because he's been awful since returning from injury IMO. And left central defender is the number two priority to sort out because we're kinda stuck with Kalas. Who has to be injured right? I mean generally, not just at the end of the game. Just looks off the pace.

I think a lot of fans like him the person. They like the story about the contract. They seem to be eating up the story about the captaincy. You don't need an armband to be a leader, it's a prop. It's a crutch. You can't fake being the leader. I don't know about following someone who is like "please sir, can i be the leader sir?". It comes across as very school boyish to me. He's replaced Joe Bryan as the nicest of the nice boys we have in our team. I don't really want that in a central defender. I don't think a collection of nice lads is a successful route. I don't know the dressing room dynamic, maybe it's fine and everyone loves that. I think it's an odd thing to do.

He's 22, he's played 100 games. It's his first full season in the championship and because he's smart I'm sure he's learning lessons. But on the job training in a promotion push is leading to some bad film. I think him playing alongside Baker will be interesting. Baker doesn't communicate well IMO, but is that physical beast who's technically limited. They both get to play in their natural sides and if Moore is as good as people think, he'll shine. If he is a good communicator/leader, if he is a good distributor, Baker would cover his weaknesses and vice versa. 

TLDR He's an inconsistent 6/10 championship player, we're needing 7-8s. There's a reason we need a central defender. He has potential but don't ignore all the blatant errors he's making just because you like him. I hope that will iron out with experience, but not sure because he has played a fair amount of games that he will ever go for £15 million to a Premier League team. And woof is Kalas not helping him. I actually think 3/4 choice central defender is the right level for him in our squad right now.

I agree with much of the above post, and would like to add a few "damn statistics,"

Apologies for memory failures, but it went roughly something like this,

Aerial duels won.

TM - 43%

Baker/Kalas - 72 & 78%

To add to this, TM only attempted approx 55 & 60% of each of the other two.

No matter how well he played in the previous match, if you are expecting to face a long ball aerial bombardment or decent wingers, TM should be way down the pecking order.

If Bailey Wright was chosen in the above scenario with those stats, I feel it would be another case of "Johnson doesn't know what he's doing" on here.

However, the OTIB Golden Boy is usually "Sacrificed," "Scapegoated," or "Thrown under the bus."

Don't get me wrong. I think TM is a talented player with a great attitude, and I'm very glad he's here.

I just find it strange that on here some players are eulogised and others always receive vitriolic abuse regardless of the realities of their performance.

 

 

 

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On 04/01/2020 at 19:36, spudski said:

....what a bloke he is.

People talk about the Snowflake generation, but this lad has so much determination and balls.

Always challenging himself and trying to improve. Both on and off the pitch.

Never shirks, always takes constructive criticism and looks to improve himself.

Top lad imo.

From LJ today...quote..

He knocked on the door and asked ‘can I be captain’ because he wants to work on his leadership and sees himself as a long-term Bristol City captain so I love attitude like that.

“I don’t give shitty jobs. If a good man comes to me and says, thank you, Lee, for the opportunity and continued support in the work-related arena, but I’ve done that, I want to better myself, I want to be Captain. Then I can make that dream come true to AKA, for you.”

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10 hours ago, Prinny said:

Aden Flint's a different example because of his career history IMO. It's pretty reasonable to assume that a player coming through non league if they have the talent will start to fulfil it with exposure to better training and better teammates. Taylor Moore is the exact opposite in terms of his development. 22 is young, but I don't recall too many players getting hugely "technically" better past that age. Different players have different career arcs, so we'll wait and see. Perhaps his recent transformation will drastically change his career. I hope so.

Taylor Moore might have time on his side, but you can also see why LJ wants an upgrade. NOW.

Still got some work to do has TM, but I’ve noticed the fear to put his head in where it hurts has gone.  Been a couple of occasions where he’s gone in with boots and bodies flailing and got his big head on the ball.  That’s a good sign.

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I’ve been following City for many a year, and whenever there is a downward trend in performance and results it it always matched by an increase in posts praising whomever isn’t in the first XI.

Over the years I’ve seen Matty Taylor lauded as a future England contender, Paul Anderson as a PL level player and Brian Wilson as the missing piece of a jigsaw.

Taylor is a decent youngster, but he’s not setting the Championship on fire any time soon. Stop kidding yourself with comparisons to Flint

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9 hours ago, Lucan said:

I’ve been following City for many a year, and whenever there is a downward trend in performance and results it it always matched by an increase in posts praising whomever isn’t in the first XI.

Over the years I’ve seen Matty Taylor lauded as a future England contender, Paul Anderson as a PL level player and Brian Wilson as the missing piece of a jigsaw.

Taylor is a decent youngster, but he’s not setting the Championship on fire any time soon. Stop kidding yourself with comparisons to Flint

I know it’s your forum ‘character’ but you don’t have to always be as negative as possible all the time. It’s a bit boring.

People are primarily praising Moore for having the balls to ask for the captaincy. Considering he hasn’t really been a first team regular until this season, the attitude displayed is great. 
 

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9 hours ago, Lucan said:

I’ve been following City for many a year, and whenever there is a downward trend in performance and results it it always matched by an increase in posts praising whomever isn’t in the first XI.

Over the years I’ve seen Matty Taylor lauded as a future England contender, Paul Anderson as a PL level player and Brian Wilson as the missing piece of a jigsaw.

Taylor is a decent youngster, but he’s not setting the Championship on fire any time soon. Stop kidding yourself with comparisons to Flint

That's a great story Lucan and thanks for sharing, but Moore has played some part in all but six games this season, started three of the five and played the majority of another of them (Brentford).

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9 hours ago, Lucan said:

Stop kidding yourself with comparisons to Flint

This bloke will be three times the player Flint ever was or can be.....a leader on & off the pitch.

Edited by Robert the bruce
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On 05/01/2020 at 18:59, Agard Days Night said:

And to think he was minutes away from a move in the summer. All worked out for the best. 

Says a lot about Lee & "The Gang of Three"....abysmal that they almost let him walk.

None of 'em fit for purpose.

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10 minutes ago, RonWalker said:

That's a great story Lucan and thanks for sharing, but Moore has played some part in all but six games this season, started three of the five and played the majority of another of them (Brentford).

Only due to I buries. He doesn’t make the first choice XI (well, let’s hope not eh?)

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24 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I know it’s your forum ‘character’ but you don’t have to always be as negative as possible all the time. It’s a bit boring.

People are primarily praising Moore for having the balls to ask for the captaincy. Considering he hasn’t really been a first team regular until this season, the attitude displayed is great. 
 

You are right I can come across as very negative.  I think this internet lark brings out my grumpy side.

12 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

This bloke will be three times the player Flint ever was or can be.....a leader on & off the pitch.

Bullocks

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9 hours ago, Lucan said:

Stop kidding yourself with comparisons to Flint

There is no comparison between Flint and TM.

Flint was/is a clogger, a 70s ‘kick it and head it ‘ CB. Very limited footballing ability or ball skills. However despite his limited skills he’s done very well for himself tho - at least financially.

Moore on the other hand is a far better and naturally gifted footballer than Flint. Better reader of the game with excellent vision. Can and does have the ball skills to bring the ball out of defence. We never saw a Flint do that.

Plus TM has represented and captained his country at u23 level and is still only 22 himself.........so if anyone is kidding themselves, try looking in the mirror.

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TM is who we should be building the defence around, he is a very good ball playing CB and the natural replacement for Webster, he is young and will make mistakes, but long term is the future. I would also be happy seeing him play RB at the moment if we play 442 and need to make our defence bigger and stronger, when played there still gets forward well with good delivery

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On 05/01/2020 at 18:59, Agard Days Night said:

And to think he was minutes away from a move in the summer. All worked out for the best. 

Was he?  Where was he going?

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6 minutes ago, YorksRed said:

Was he?  Where was he going?

The only person who thinks this is true is the poster, claimed it was a done deal in the Transfer Forum and was adamant it was happening. 

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10 hours ago, Lucan said:

I’ve been following City for many a year, and whenever there is a downward trend in performance and results it it always matched by an increase in posts praising whomever isn’t in the first XI.

Over the years I’ve seen Matty Taylor lauded as a future England contender, Paul Anderson as a PL level player and Brian Wilson as the missing piece of a jigsaw.

Taylor is a decent youngster, but he’s not setting the Championship on fire any time soon. Stop kidding yourself with comparisons to Flint

So three seasons in and a player we spent a lot of money on still isn't Championship ready.

The club might be better off seeing if they could develop him into a defensive midfielder like Eric Dier, because I don't think he will ever be aerially good enough to consistently  play centre back, nor have the pace to play full back.

Edited by Natchfever

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18 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

So three seasons in and a player we spent a lot of money on still isn't Championship ready.

The club might be better off seeing if they could develop him into a defensive midfielder like Eric Dier, because I don't think he will ever be aerially good enough to consistently  play centre back, nor have the pace to play full back.

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11 hours ago, Lucan said:

I’ve been following City for many a year, and whenever there is a downward trend in performance and results it it always matched by an increase in posts praising whomever isn’t in the first XI.

 

I agree with this sentence.

However I genuinely think TM is a good 'un. Not because he's not regularly in the team but his ability is there for all to see. I'd have him in the team every week. Kalas has been pretty disappointing since his injury. Baker, well he doesn't seem to want to play too often, Wright 5th choice, so the opportunity is there for TM to play regularly.

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22 hours ago, MJP3 said:

I agree with much of the above post, and would like to add a few "damn statistics,"

Apologies for memory failures, but it went roughly something like this,

Aerial duels won.

TM - 43%

Baker/Kalas - 72 & 78%

To add to this, TM only attempted approx 55 & 60% of each of the other two.

No matter how well he played in the previous match, if you are expecting to face a long ball aerial bombardment or decent wingers, TM should be way down the pecking order.

If Bailey Wright was chosen in the above scenario with those stats, I feel it would be another case of "Johnson doesn't know what he's doing" on here.

However, the OTIB Golden Boy is usually "Sacrificed," "Scapegoated," or "Thrown under the bus."

Don't get me wrong. I think TM is a talented player with a great attitude, and I'm very glad he's here.

I just find it strange that on here some players are eulogised and others always receive vitriolic abuse regardless of the realities of their performance.

 

 

 

I agree with much of the above post, and would like to add a few "damn statistics,"

Apologies for memory failures, but it went roughly something like this,

Aerial duels won.

TM - 43%

Baker/Kalas - 72 & 78%

To add to this, TM only attempted approx 55 & 60% of each of the other two.

No matter how well he played in the previous match, if you are expecting to face a long ball aerial bombardment or decent wingers, TM should be way down the pecking order.

If Bailey Wright was chosen in the above scenario with those stats, I feel it would be another case of "Johnson doesn't know what he's doing" on here.

However, the OTIB Golden Boy is usually "Sacrificed," "Scapegoated," or "Thrown under the bus."

Don't get me wrong. I think TM is a talented player with a great attitude, and I'm very glad he's here.

I just find it strange that on here some players are eulogised and others always receive vitriolic abuse regardless of the realities of their performance.

 

 

 

Even heading stats can be misleading. Taylor Moore has sometimes, a little bit like Bailey Wright, done enough to put his man off a header and the header has gone wide or over.

Nuhui header for example. Taylor Moore backs into him and his header has no power or direction and harmlessly floats wide of goal.

Baker wins more headers, but I find he is guilty of not doing enough to put his man off of those he doesn't win.

As Taylor Moore is only 22, and has grown so much over the last 2 years, I'm hoping he grows still before he is 24 and then he can be even stronger in the air.

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

There is no comparison between Flint and TM.

Flint was/is a clogger, a 70s ‘kick it and head it ‘ CB. Very limited footballing ability or ball skills. However despite his limited skills he’s done very well for himself tho - at least financially.

Moore on the other hand is a far better and naturally gifted footballer than Flint. Better reader of the game with excellent vision. Can and does have the ball skills to bring the ball out of defence. We never saw a Flint do that.

Plus TM has represented and captained his country at u23 level and is still only 22 himself.........so if anyone is kidding themselves, try looking in the mirror.

We’ll just have to see.  I can see Moore has some talent, don’t get me wrong but I can’t see him becoming a PL quality CB.  He's too frail.

I can’t find any reference to him captaining England u23s

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3 hours ago, Lucan said:

I can’t find any reference to him captaining England u23s

It was England u20s.......my mistake.

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Was also in Lens academy, a fairly renowned academy- that helps with the development too.

I was worried that he had stagnated a bit or that his development strategy a bit uneven, but seems Southend loan did him a lot of good.

Edit: According to Wiki, Lyon and Crystal Palace were apparently keen on him in 2015 or 2016, so yeah there's a good base to go from.

He spent a year at West Ham, another good one- but his formative years were Lens and as stated, they have a strong track record. 2009-2015 in their academy.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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6 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

The only person who thinks this is true is the poster, claimed it was a done deal in the Transfer Forum and was adamant it was happening. 

He’s got pyjamas with the word ‘Kachina’ written on him/her.

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7 hours ago, Robert the bruce said:

Says a lot about Lee & "The Gang of Three"....abysmal that they almost let him walk.

None of 'em fit for purpose.

What? A player who 90% of us wouldn't have minded if had moved on nearly moved on, but LJ and other management decided to keep him and played him and he's look promising and LJ and management are not fit for purpose for nearly letting him move on?

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8 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said:

I agree with this sentence.

However I genuinely think TM is a good 'un. Not because he's not regularly in the team but his ability is there for all to see. I'd have him in the team every week. Kalas has been pretty disappointing since his injury. Baker, well he doesn't seem to want to play too often, Wright 5th choice, so the opportunity is there for TM to play regularly.

Harsh on Bakes this season....has been injured for the last few games.  Been probably our most consistent (I didn’t say best) Centre Back this season.

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8 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Even heading stats can be misleading. Taylor Moore has sometimes, a little bit like Bailey Wright, done enough to put his man off a header and the header has gone wide or over.

Nuhui header for example. Taylor Moore backs into him and his header has no power or direction and harmlessly floats wide of goal.

Baker wins more headers, but I find he is guilty of not doing enough to put his man off of those he doesn't win.

As Taylor Moore is only 22, and has grown so much over the last 2 years, I'm hoping he grows still before he is 24 and then he can be even stronger in the air.

 A good and often overlooked point that I agree with JD, although the number of attempts can't be questioned.

This wasn't intended a criticism of TM. As stated, I am very glad he's here and also amazed at how quickly he has adapted to the Championship.

To make it clear, not only do I feel he is a valuable player for us now, given his ability, age and perceived attitude, I feel he will either become a long term stalwart of the club, or return a very handsome profit in the future.

My point (Badly made) was many on here have  players  who will always be vilified, and those that will always be untouchable, regardless of the realities at that time.

Regardless of whether LJ does need beating with a stick on not, TM as the victim, "Sacrificed," "Scapegoated," and "Thrown under the bus."  is not a fair one to use.

Perhaps Johnson may have other reasons to leave him out, other than "Let's pick on the kid."

 

 

 

 

Edited by MJP3

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9 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Even heading stats can be misleading. Taylor Moore has sometimes, a little bit like Bailey Wright, done enough to put his man off a header and the header has gone wide or over.

Nuhui header for example. Taylor Moore backs into him and his header has no power or direction and harmlessly floats wide of goal.

Baker wins more headers, but I find he is guilty of not doing enough to put his man off of those he doesn't win.

As Taylor Moore is only 22, and has grown so much over the last 2 years, I'm hoping he grows still before he is 24 and then he can be even stronger in the air.

Yep, it’s also what Jay Dasilva did better than Lloyd Kelly at LB last season, despite about a foot difference in height, got his body into positions to either stop his man getting a clean header, or any header at all.

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3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, it’s also what Jay Dasilva did better than Lloyd Kelly at LB last season, despite about a foot difference in height, got his body into positions to either stop his man getting a clean header, or any header at all.

Dasilva is surprisingly stronger than he looks he should be isn't he. Remember numerous times he battles well when having players on him whether in the air or on the ground.

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That keeper Bayern Munich have signed in the summer was captain after a couple games and he was like 19 or summit 

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On 04/01/2020 at 21:58, Prinny said:

I see potential but I feel he's massively over hyped on here. People are acting like he's Adam Webster 2.0 and he's waaay off IMO. Don't get me wrong, not writing him off, i like him the person, i like his desire to get better, his seeming professionalism. I have zero intention to get rid of him. Taylor Moore is what's right with our model and what's wrong with it. You have a young player with all the intangibles who's out there getting better but making mistakes. This will help us long term but hurts us short term. However, right now...

There's so many really bad things he does. Today is no exception. There's a moment in the first five or so minutes where he gets out muscled and turned when he awkwardly tries to nick the ball from behind their player. There's two decisions which work. Stay behind and let them get it under control, or clatter through them and give a foul. He delicately wafts a leg at it, and ends up off balance before being turned.

Then there's his attempts to bring the ball out.. Adam Webster he is not. There were a couple of really bad ones today. I like that he tries. But especially on his left foot, it's inconsistent to say the least. It looks awkward. Like he's doing the thing we all know he needs to do, and yet even he doesn't believe he should be doing it. There's the very obvious concentration lapses and he's not the type to really put his head in where it hurts. Then there's getting burned by their 11 for pace. Kalas did too.

Which leaves me wondering, what type of player is he exactly? Jack of all trades centre back. Ok Physically, Ok technically, Ok mentally. So he's Ok. And Ok isn't good enough for where we want to be. He needs to get better, he seems to want to get better which is great. But his decision making and concentration is inconsistent.

What is Taylor Moore GREAT at? Let's use a Johnsonism. What's his USP? Character? Professionalism?

He's definitely hurt playing left side in a two. We've seen that a few times now and it's looked awkward each time. Also Kalas is not helping him with distribution because he's been awful since returning from injury IMO. And left central defender is the number two priority to sort out because we're kinda stuck with Kalas. Who has to be injured right? I mean generally, not just at the end of the game. Just looks off the pace.

I think a lot of fans like him the person. They like the story about the contract. They seem to be eating up the story about the captaincy. You don't need an armband to be a leader, it's a prop. It's a crutch. You can't fake being the leader. I don't know about following someone who is like "please sir, can i be the leader sir?". It comes across as very school boyish to me. He's replaced Joe Bryan as the nicest of the nice boys we have in our team. I don't really want that in a central defender. I don't think a collection of nice lads is a successful route. I don't know the dressing room dynamic, maybe it's fine and everyone loves that. I think it's an odd thing to do.

He's 22, he's played 100 games. It's his first full season in the championship and because he's smart I'm sure he's learning lessons. But on the job training in a promotion push is leading to some bad film. I think him playing alongside Baker will be interesting. Baker doesn't communicate well IMO, but is that physical beast who's technically limited. They both get to play in their natural sides and if Moore is as good as people think, he'll shine. If he is a good communicator/leader, if he is a good distributor, Baker would cover his weaknesses and vice versa. 

TLDR He's an inconsistent 6/10 championship player, we're needing 7-8s. There's a reason we need a central defender. He has potential but don't ignore all the blatant errors he's making just because you like him. I hope that will iron out with experience, but not sure because he has played a fair amount of games that he will ever go for £15 million to a Premier League team. And woof is Kalas not helping him. I actually think 3/4 choice central defender is the right level for him in our squad right now.

I agree with some of what you say but really no point signing up and comings like him if we arent going to play them .

I honestly think currently with the squad we have ... espcially away from home we should be playing 3/5/2 or 3/4/1/1 ,  I think is perfect place to put Taylor in the first 11 . So he can play it out from the back and have less pressure. 

Though i do agree there is a time and place to be playing players like Taylor but then again just because he is a cb why shouldnt this be risked? Look at Brownhill Lloyd kelly( to a lesser extent ).

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