Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

reddogkev

Offside goal killer - disgrace

Recommended Posts

Does anybody think it fair that so many goals are now being wiped off because of the slightest hint of offside?

It seems categorical that offside now applies to players in line with the last defender.  Nottm Forest had two good goals chalked off against Chelsea, when in both cases the forward's body was still in line with the defender.

I used to blame VAR for killing goals, but it is the offside change that is doing it.

I don't understand why this has happened.  I would guess the number of goals 'killed' like this must already be in the twenties or thirties this season.

Sad times, will it ever change?  Or is this new standard actually correct? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they're persisting with it I liked the of widening the striker's var line to introduce a 'margin for error' like cricket has umpires call. Should mean that decisions then given offside are more clear 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pukki disallowed goal vs Tottenham was possibly the oddest or harshest I've seen.

rd6kYtJ8?format=jpg&name=small

We're talking fractions of inches in it maybe?

If it's even offside at all!!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Pukki disallowed goal vs Tottenham was possibly the oddest or harshest I've seen.

rd6kYtJ8?format=jpg&name=small

Yes that is terrible and definitely counts as a goal killed off.  If I was a Norwich fan I would have been on the pitch after that and then locked up that night and banned for life.

I might join Twitter and start up a hashtag #serial goal killer. 

Perhaps the players involved need to start up a protest, or would they just be heavily fined for their troubles?

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Pukki disallowed goal vs Tottenham was possibly the oddest or harshest I've seen.

rd6kYtJ8?format=jpg&name=small

Fraction of an inch in it maybe?

If it's even offside at all!!

I think that is the worst I have seen. It was a great run from Pukki.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Pukki disallowed goal vs Tottenham was possibly the oddest or harshest I've seen.

rd6kYtJ8?format=jpg&name=small

Fraction of an inch in it maybe?

If it's even offside at all!!

Pretty clear that Pukki gains no unfair advantage from that position. If he scores from there, the only outcomes should be.

a) Well done Pukki, or

b) Should’ve done better Centre Half. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think there is a single fan in the entire world who wants to see goals ruled out by a player being half a pixel offside.  It's a ******* farce.

  • Like 10
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Pukki disallowed goal vs Tottenham was possibly the oddest or harshest I've seen.

rd6kYtJ8?format=jpg&name=small

Fraction of an inch in it maybe?

If it's even offside at all!!

Yes one of the worst for me too. Also don’t like that most camera angles aren’t directly across the pitch. I am sure the tech makes it quite accurate even not looking across it but visually hard for me to accept. 
 

I have said a few times the part of the body that plays the ball first should be where the offside occurs. Meaning if your shoulder is offside but you score with your right foot which is onside it should count. Or if your head is slightly offside and you score with your head it is offside. Or if in the build up your right foot is a toe offside and you cross with your right foot it is offside etc. They’d probably find a way to muck that up too though.

Also in favour of if any part of the body you can score with is onside then it counts. Favour the attackers. Everyone likes goals find a way to boost those numbers. We won’t like that at first either but the moneymakers will. Scoring attracts fans in general. They have done this in plenty of American sports(I know most of you don’t like them but what I am most familiar with) where they have given advantages to offences/attacks. Their ratings are generally higher than ever. Plus most of those marginal ones are defences stepping up in an offside trap so penalised for being a bit too slow. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Pukki disallowed goal vs Tottenham was possibly the oddest or harshest I've seen.

rd6kYtJ8?format=jpg&name=small

Fraction of an inch in it maybe?

If it's even offside at all!!

This one bothered me the most. It look's like a perfectly timed run by Pukki. 

I don't think it's just the eventual decision that is killing off goals either. I doubt you can pull any stats to back it up (it might not even happen) but I worry that strikers may now leave themselves a little more work to do with their runs to make sure they aren't subject to the dreaded VAR lines.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sourness came up with the idea that it should be the players feet that determine whether he’s offside or not. 

The ridiculous hand/shoulder being offside pisses off every football fan out there............:disapointed2se:

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heard read somewhere that must be clear and obvious offside, not a toe nail or finger tip. It’s being looked at by authorities this month. 
VAR  is good but got to apply common sense. Goals and things like that.  Handballs, pens etc

Always remember being in a bar in Turkey for World Cup match England v Germany and the frank Lampard goal. I was only Brit in bar  The jerries thought it hilarious when not given when I went into melt down . Still had a good night later with them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I prefer the idea of the wider margin of error line. If you base it on position of feet, won't you just have VAR telling us one players foot was half an inch in front the others and therefore offside?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In case of doubt at first glance it should be ruled in favour of the forward. Also any offside situation in the build up to a goal should be rejected if happening more than 15 seconds before the goal was scored.   

Edited by bristolcitysweden

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the issue with changing which body part is counted, or having a wider “line”, won’t solve the issue. You’ll just have moved the issue back a few inches. 
 

you’ll have the same tech but now measuring someone’s foot rather than their armpit  you’ve still got the measuring issue in there.

anywhere where there is a boundary there will be a dispute re whether something is one side or the other. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

Heard read somewhere that must be clear and obvious offside, not a toe nail or finger tip. It’s being looked at by authorities this month. 
VAR  is good but got to apply common sense. Goals and things like that.  Handballs, pens etc

Always remember being in a bar in Turkey for World Cup match England v Germany and the frank Lampard goal. I was only Brit in bar  The jerries thought it hilarious when not given when I went into melt down . Still had a good night later with them. 

This is my issue with it, how can it be clear and obvious if it takes 10 camera angles and 3 minutes of replays to check it? I think they should have some version of "umpires call" like in cricket. If it's that close, you go with the on field decision, this would also stop the system undermining the on field officials.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think each team should have a maximum of say 3 appeals, if the decision is correct they still have their three but if it goes against them then they lose a ‘life’. This would cut down every decision being looked at as Captains/managers wouldn’t appeal everything, only the clear and obvious.

On another note I was watching a TV game yesterday where the player scored and didn’t celebrate but instead looked at the screen for the possibility of it being offside. It took ages to decide and then the goal was given. Then the match was restarted as the moment of celebration was gone for the players and many of the fans too. It was a horrible scenario. The decision wasn’t that clear but there must have been a tiny bit of doubt in the players mind, it certainly wasnt clear and obvious. I can’t remember which match  it was as I watched a few yesterday. I really don’t want to be watching football like this. 

  • Like 2
  • Hmmm 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

just like the whole ball has to cross the line so if even 1mm of your body you score with is offside then by letter of the laws of football your offside 

We are still getting use to the var its not going be perfect straight away and everyone always going have an opinion on it regardless if we use var 

Think back to the world cup when we played the germans and lampard shot crosses the line but wasnt given now we have goal line tech that noone moans about but things can take time to get right

If we can get it right like the rugby and cricket do then it could help improve the gane and stop teams getting robbed and managers getting sacked

rome wasnt built in a day 

Edited by Highguy
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The simplest thing to say is that it has to be “clear and obvious”. In other words, you don’t need 5 minutes and 10 camera angles. VAR also disrupts the flow of the game.

So as far as I can see it there should be 2 changes that go hand in hand. 
1. A wider margin of error i.e. more than a toe or the edge of a shoulder needs to be offside.
2. There should be a time limit on any VAR decision. I would suggest 30 seconds. That feeds into the first point and will mean that VAR is only overturning obvious errors, where a player is clearly gaining an unfair advantage, which was my understanding of what it was brought into to do.

Of course being British, we have taken it to the nth degree, because that’s what we always do with every rule or law. Then those bringing in the change (FIFA/UEFA) get the blame, when in fact, it’s our own officials who are the culprits by interpreting it to the most absolute wording, rather than the spirit.

I could go all political along similar lines, but probably best not!

Edited by Dr Balls
Spelling
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, reddogkev said:

I used to blame VAR for killing goals, but it is the offside change that is doing it.

Law 11 hasn't changed this season so any apparent change in the number of goals being ruled out lies wholly at VAR's door.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Law 11 hasn't changed this season so any apparent change in the number of goals being ruled out lies wholly at VAR's door.

What's your view on Pukki's disallowed goal, see higher up the thread and the picture?

Problem with VAR, extremely marginal but right offside- or outright error even after the ref etc could check it with VAR?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

VAR in it's present format is killing the game.Decisions should be reached so much quicker than they are currently and if they are taking an age to reach a decision it's hardly clear and obvious.

Edited by CityCiderEd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What's your view on Pukki's disallowed goal, see higher up the thread and the picture?

 

Goal every time. No way in real time the human eye, allowing for margins of error, would have ruled him off. Couldn't care about absolutes, in the spirit of the game it's a goal.

Contrast the excellent officiating one finds in the NFL. When this weekend DeAndre Carter of the Texans failed to take a knee or indicate an uncontested touchback the on field officials were technically correct to award a touchdown when the Bills played on and picked up the ball he'd tossed toward the official. The officiating overseers on the sidelines however had them overrule as in the spirit of the game the ball had voluntarily been given up. It cost the Bills the game and their season but nobody complained as it was the right thing to do.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is really grinding my gears.....and as was mentioned on MOTD.   How can some FA Cup ties at the home of Premiership teams have VAR?  Yet all other ties at grounds not in the Premiership, have No Access to VAR?   It means it is NOT a level playing field, and so is biased against teams outside the Prem.   You have to have one rule for everyone,  otherwise it makes a mockery of the rules, and it becomes ludicrously unfair.  The FA need to sort it out ASAP, as it degrades the whole competition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, ooRya said:

Easy solution......get rid of VAR and stop trying to make the game of football 'perfect'.

Dont be silly, common sense went out of the football window when League Division One became the Premiership.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Southport Red said:

Thought I heard (though I may have dreamt it), that they were going to change the rule again. Sure I heard ‘clear daylight’ mentioned. 

But then we'd be arguing over whether a millimetre, centimetre or an inch is clear daylight. 

Exactly the same problem, surely. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My problem with it is how can they be sure that the frame they are using is the exact moment the ball is played. Milliseconds decide on or offside,

I’m I am not convinced the moment the picture is frozen is correct. Who decides the moment ball is released and is it consistent game to game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

But then we'd be arguing over whether a millimetre, centimetre or an inch is clear daylight. 

Exactly the same problem, surely. 

Definitely heard on the radio that clear daylight was being considered as the new criteria, that should be better, if not perfect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe I'm wrong and the rule's been changed, but I always thought that part of the offside rule was about the attacking player '...seeking to gain an advantage...'. 

Is that still the case? If so, how can Pukki be adjudged to be actively seeking an advantage by getting an inch of his shoulder further forward than a defender?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Definitely heard on the radio that clear daylight was being considered as the new criteria, that should be better, if not perfect.

Not sure how this works, where's the daylight supposed to be? 

The problem IMO isn't where the line is, it's where the VAR is applied.  It should be down to the referee to ask to see it on screen if s/he thinks it was marginal and make their own mind up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Robbored said:

Sourness came up with the idea that it should be the players feet that determine whether he’s offside or not. 

The ridiculous hand/shoulder being offside pisses off every football fan out there............:disapointed2se:

What he has said is if a part of the body you can score with is onside then you are onside, much better than the current ruling and easier for them to judge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Nibor said:

Not sure how this works, where's the daylight supposed to be? 

The problem IMO isn't where the line is, it's where the VAR is applied.  It should be down to the referee to ask to see it on screen if s/he thinks it was marginal and make their own mind up.

From what I understood, the proposal is that the attacker has to be completely beyond the defender to be offside, that’s where the clear daylight comes from.  Any part of the body behind or inline, then onside.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

What he has said is if a part of the body you can score with is onside then you are onside, much better than the current ruling and easier for them to judge

I think that makes for more goals but it won't change accuracy of decisions and how unwatchable a VAR riddled game is as it just moves the line.

What we need is to be able to celebrate a goal knowing it is unlikely to be chalked off two or three minutes later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Maesknoll Red said:

From what I understood, the proposal is that the attacker has to be completely beyond the defender to be offside, that’s where the clear daylight comes from.  Any part of the body behind or inline, then onside.

It's tricky because you have outstretched limbs and so on so there can be daylight between them whilst they are still overlapping if you look at arms and legs.  All of their bodies or just the bits that can play the ball? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Nibor said:

It's tricky because you have outstretched limbs and so on so there can be daylight between them whilst they are still overlapping if you look at arms and legs.  All of their bodies or just the bits that can play the ball? 

It was a little vague, I was listening to a reporter on R5, I’m sure it’s the whole body, limbs, fingers, whatever, hence the clear daylight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Nibor said:

I think that makes for more goals but it won't change accuracy of decisions and how unwatchable a VAR riddled game is as it just moves the line.

What we need is to be able to celebrate a goal knowing it is unlikely to be chalked off two or three minutes later.

Only allow VAR one look across the line. If it they can’t see a reason to not allow the goal it stands. Instead of actively looking to disallow the goal. No need for all these lines across the pitch and up to body parts, one camera along the line, if it isn’t ‘clear and obvious’ goal stands. Give some power back to the officials 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

Only allow VAR one look across the line. If it they can’t see a reason to not allow the goal it stands. Instead of actively looking to disallow the goal. No need for all these lines across the pitch and up to body parts, one camera along the line, if it isn’t ‘clear and obvious’ goal stands. Give some power back to the officials 

I think we just need VAR to **** off unless the ref asks for it, or there's some off the ball incident he's completely missed.  It would solve every problem really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A foot offside is not clear and obvious ,a couple of metres is clear and obvious . var should only be used once or twice a week  when the fourth officials are 100% certain at the time of the mistake all three of them must press the button and overrule there and then, when it is a clear and obvious mistake  by ref or lino not when they think the ref might be mistaken and they need to check.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to see offside removed altogether, just as a friendly trial. 

Easy to jump to conclusions that it would ruin the game, but I'm not sure it would. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

I'd like to see offside removed altogether, just as a friendly trial. 

Easy to jump to conclusions that it would ruin the game, but I'm not sure it would. 

Gary Lineker would be out of retirement in a flash.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Midred said:

Should VAR be allowed at any FA matches as the rules could be interpreted differently at a ground that doesn't have VAR? 

I certainly don’t like the fact that when a game is played at a Premiership ground there are decisions reviewed and goals given or not, and sending offs, whereas if the game was played at their opponents ground there isn’t any possibility of anything in a replay.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Definitely heard on the radio that clear daylight was being considered as the new criteria, that should be better, if not perfect.

Wow no more nightgames?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Nibor said:

I think we just need VAR to **** off unless the ref asks for it, or there's some off the ball incident he's completely missed.  It would solve every problem really.

Exactly, ref let’s the game play on, if the linesman says I want to allow the goal but we need to check offside then you check. Like they do in rugby, if the Lino is confident of his original decision it stands. Same with every other goal, ref wants to give it, but if he’s not happy with something in the build up he can go back to it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why was it that VAR was used at Premier League grounds in the FA cup over the last few days but not at any other stadia? How is that equal and fair either way round? Surely it’s all or nothing in the cup - available at all grounds or none at all ... results would have/could have been so different - eg which game was it where it looked like the ball had gone out of play for a goal kick before a striker ‘kept it in’ and it led to a goal? Was it at PNE?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me and using the Pukki 'goal' as an example, if it's reviewed in slow motion and paused as the ball is played, if it looks on/offside with the naked eye then that should be enough. If they are going to surgically analyse everything frame by frame and work things out in mm using a geometry kit then just bin it off. If VAR is staying then discussions are needed at FIFA HQ about changing the offside rule.

Football is about scoring goals, denying that one in particular as they did just wasn't in the spirit of the game for me, it was a really good goal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...