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VAR - Killing the fun in football

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Just watching the Sheffield Utd v West Ham game.

Should the West Ham goal have been disallowed?

It doesn't look like a conscious effort by the player in the build up to control the ball for the West Ham, disallowed goal.

But the touch to arm is all that VAR is concerned with.

Surely this is just incidental and in no way deliberate in thi case?

Major incident again against VAR validity in my eyes and I know it should be used effectively and better than this.

This has been a game that is played by people...refereed by people and for all both their failings, we have to ensure that fair play is ensured.

But, there is a line and VAR is absolutely wrong here in how it is applying its rule to this type of incident.

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I'd disagree and say VAR did what it's supposed to do. 

It's the actual rules that need updating if this ridiculous scenario is to continue 

As for killing the fun, the United fans celebrated that decision more than their goal 

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Football was an art, creative, romantic, spontaneous, edgy and tribal. 

Now a science, controlled, sterile, disciplined and, largely, pretty boring. VAR is a step too far. 

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25 minutes ago, phantom said:

I'd disagree and say VAR did what it's supposed to do. 

It's the actual rules that need updating if this ridiculous scenario is to continue 

As for killing the fun, the United fans celebrated that decision more than their goal 

VAR implemented the rule correctly but has been a shambles this season and should be scrapped.

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28 minutes ago, phantom said:

I'd disagree and say VAR did what it's supposed to do. 

It's the actual rules that need updating if this ridiculous scenario is to continue 

As for killing the fun, the United fans celebrated that decision more than their goal 

That last sentence would be true if half of them wouldn’t of left when the goal went in

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25 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

Yes, the immediacy  of celebrating has all but gone......got to wait five minutes to cheer!

I know patience is a virtue, but it really is taking the p**s! COYR 

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We all moaned about refs and still do so what is the actual point in VAR,do we have to change every bloody rule in football so it eventually works or do we get back to the football we all know and love where the joy of scoring a goal is unrivalled 

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Think plenty of people are jumping on the fashionable bandwagon of criticising VAR here when it's not the issue. I can understand why you'd question the handball being given, but that's an issue with a law of the game not the use or implementation of VAR

 

Edited by CheddarReds
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Before VAR, refs would make mistakes, but these probably even out over time unless you are Man Utd.

VAR makes less mistakes but has completely ruined the game.  I also think a bias towards the bigger clubs still seems to exist.

It's only this season that your ear can be offside and interfering with play.

Edited by wendyredredrobin
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3 minutes ago, CheddarReds said:

Think plenty of people are jumping on the fashionable bandwagon of criticising VAR here when it's not the issue. I can understand why you'd question the handball being given, but that's an issue with a law of the game not the use or implementation of VAR

 

Can I ask what you think the upside of VAR is

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What I thought was amazing about the game was West Ham’s following - Friday night, live on TV - 360 mile round trip from East London and they packed the away end - huge respect to the Irons’ fans - proper loyal bunch ...

Edited by BS4 on Tour...
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10 minutes ago, CheddarReds said:

Think plenty of people are jumping on the fashionable bandwagon of criticising VAR here when it's not the issue. I can understand why you'd question the handball being given, but that's an issue with a law of the game not the use or implementation of VAR

 

But the implementation of VAR has been a shambles all season regardless of the handball rule that is a joke. This is not a fashionable bandwagon - its just common sense for any proper football fan (not the armchair jokers).

Incorrect calls on offsides, wasting of time looking at tight decisions when they aren't clear and obvious, refs not knowing if they should go to the screens or not, decisions showing up incorrectly on screens in the ground, fans not knowing what is going on at the game...the list never ends. But the main thing for me is it is wrecking the feeling of scoring a goal - ie the emotion. And so it should be scrapped immediately.

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5 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Can I ask what you think the upside of VAR is

Well I didn't say they're in abundance or that I support it(?)

I'm sure you're aware of the reasons why it's being used already

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3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

What I thought was amazing about the game was West Ham’s following - Friday night, live on TV - 360 mile round trip from East London and they packed the away end - huge respect to the Irons’ fans - proper loyal bunch ...

Yet they travel home without a point because of this all - disgraceful.

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1 minute ago, CheddarReds said:

Well I didn't say they're in abundance or that I support it(?)

I'm sure you're aware of the reasons why it's being used already

I wasn’t having a dig it was a honest question,just scrap the effin thing

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2 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

Yet they travel home without a point because of this all - disgraceful.

They were terrible though and deserved nothing.

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5 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

What I thought was amazing about the game was West Ham’s following - Friday night, live on TV - 360 mile round trip from East London - huge respect to the Irons’ fans - proper loyal bunch ...

Agree - Proper football fans the Hammers. Full respect to them.

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7 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

What I thought was amazing about the game was West Ham’s following - Friday night, live on TV - 360 mile round trip from East London and they packed the away end - huge respect to the Irons’ fans - proper loyal bunch ...

Nothing special really mate,even Chelsea sell out away ends nowadays 

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1 minute ago, Alex_BCFC said:

Yet they travel home without a point because of this all - disgraceful.

Yep, the defender headed the ball against Rice’s arm from a few inches away, how the hell is that handball?! Good grief ... just about every aspect of the modern world is making me wanna scream and get off the carousel - one prime example is loads of (mainly young) people actively looking to be offended every minute of every day about utter shite and now VAR is ruining our national sport - sad times ...

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9 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

But the implementation of VAR has been a shambles all season regardless of the handball rule that is a joke. This is not a fashionable bandwagon - its just common sense for any proper football fan (not the armchair jokers).

Incorrect calls on offsides, wasting of time looking at tight decisions when they aren't clear and obvious, refs not knowing if they should go to the screens or not, decisions showing up incorrectly on screens in the ground, fans not knowing what is going on at the game...the list never ends. But the main thing for me is it is wrecking the feeling of scoring a goal - ie the emotion. And so it should be scrapped immediately.

Completely agree that it's implementation has been piss. We all want moments like West Ham thought they had tonight where you get a point last minute, taking that away is killing the emotion no doubt. It'll be interesting to see in the medium term the impact it'll have on things like goal scoring. For example whether less goals are scored from strikers being  conscious of having their big toe offside they can't get on the end of crosses etc, but I don't think that's what the issue is tonight. The issue is the handball rule. Of course if you take away VAR the goal is given so I can understand that argument, but at the moment I think it's far more likely we change the laws to work in conjunction with VAR than scrapping it all together, rightly or wrongly. So it's worth being critical of the laws on nights like this so the implementation of VAR improves going forward

Edited by CheddarReds
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2 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Nothing special really mate,even Chelsea sell out away ends nowadays 

I think it’s special, we’d have taken a few hundred up there for a Friday night match that was being broadcast live on tv - dunno how you can’t be impressed by the West Ham turnout ...

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3 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

Yeh they played poorly in a poor scrappy game.

If thats what west ham fans have to look forward to under Moyes i cant imagine they will be happy. Long ball rubbish no surprise they are after Fellaini!

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The issue isn't just the handball rule though tonight. Without VAR, that never even gets checked as it looked fine to the ref in normal time. They should scrap it but I bet they won't.

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2 minutes ago, Super said:

If thats what west ham fans have to look forward to under Moyes i cant imagine they will be happy. Long ball rubbish no surprise they are after Fellaini!

They’ll be happy if they stay up - I reckon Bournemouth and Norwich fans will be more disgruntled than West Ham followers from here on in ...

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2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I think it’s special, we’d have taken a few hundred up there for a Friday night match that was being broadcast live on tv - dunno how you can’t be impressed by the West Ham turnout ...

It’s the norm mate that’s all I’m saying for any London prem club to sell out a away end,not sure what we got to do with the matter but still

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29 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Before VAR, refs would make mistakes, but these probably even out over time unless you are Man Utd.

VAR makes less mistakes but has completely ruined the game.  I also think a bias towards the bigger clubs still seems to exist.

It's only this season that your ear can be offside and interfering with play.

I hear what your saying.

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5 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

They are super fans tho tbf just like the geordies  🤔

True Joe, but their song always makes me laugh.  Especially when it's out of Toon.

Edited by wendyredredrobin

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19 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

It’s the norm mate that’s all I’m saying for any London prem club to sell out a away end,not sure what we got to do with the matter but still

But the two clubs you’re mentioning, Chelsea and West Ham, have always had superb away followings - way before the premier league existed and also when both those clubs weren’t even in the top tier ...

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1 hour ago, Alex_BCFC said:

Yet they travel home without a point because of this all - disgraceful.

Should be travelling home without a point because they lost the goal was disallowed because they followed the rules the right decision 

Some would say it karma for the tevez goals that relegated them 13 years ago others will blame var

Edited by Highguy

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9 hours ago, phantom said:

I'd disagree and say VAR did what it's supposed to do. 

It's the actual rules that need updating if this ridiculous scenario is to continue 

As for killing the fun, the United fans celebrated that decision more than their goal 

I’d agree that VAR did what it was supposed to do and I’d absolutely scrap it tomorrow.

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If the attacker had headed the ball against the defenders hand would of been play on. 
The handball rule in th penalty area is so far in the defensive sides favour now. Can’t see what the point of the law change that was made.

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6 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

If the attacker had headed the ball against the defenders hand would of been play on. 
The handball rule in th penalty area is so far in the defensive sides favour now. Can’t see what the point of the law change that was made.

The handball issue illustrates how the rules have become too prescriptive. 

Anywhere else on the pitch if the ball hits a player completely accidentally, i.e. no intention by the player concerned, then it is not penalised. However, the minute the incident occurs inside the penalty area there is differentiation as to the outcome depending on whether the 'handball" was by an defender or attacker, and in the case of an attacker whether a goal resulted. That's ridiculous.

Even more ridiculous is that the "handball" which led to the disallowed goal for West Ham last night , was committed well outside the penalty area! 

As others have said it is not the use of VAR in itself that is the problem. It is the combination of VAR and the laws of the game that is causing the sometimes farcical decisions. Previously every game would result in debate about contentious refereeing decisions, which would be pulled apart by pundits having the benefit of television replays of these incidents from every angle and in slow motion, options not available to the referee, who had to make a split second decision based in seeing the incident in real time.

Having introduced technology, every game now results in debate about VAR decisions, which were made with the benefit of television replays from every angle and in slow motion, not in only a split second and having only seen the incident in real time. My worry is that increasingly it seems the on field referee is taken out of the decision making process, other than announcing the VAR outcome to the players and fans. 

If VAR is shown to eliminate incorrect decisions then no one would have a problem. That mistakes are still being made despite the use of technology, and, in the case of offside decisions, decisions are being based on  ludicrously fine margins and by taking play back umpteen phases prior to goals makes fans look back almost fondly to what increasingly seem the halcyon days pre-VAR, when human judgement, interpretation and error affected game, but which now appear to be the better option.

 

 

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Many football fans couldn’t stop slagging off referees, they wanted the perfect game, they wanted every decision to be 100% correct.

Every week on this forum a referee would get slaughtered for making in his eyes an honest split second decision...... from the one angle he saw it. 

We must have cameras everyone said, whilst people with experience of refereeing knew what this would bring.

Well now the fans have what they wanted, but seem even more unhappy!. Referees have always had the hardest job in football and part of that was having to put up with the ‘experts’ in the stands, a lot of which don’t even know all the laws of the game that they pay to watch! 

So here we are, var is giving fans what they asked for..................
 

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11 hours ago, phantom said:

I'd disagree and say VAR did what it's supposed to do. 

It's the actual rules that need updating if this ridiculous scenario is to continue 

 

Absolutely spot on. It’s was a ludicrous decision to amend the handball rule with VAR coming in. VAR would have made it a lot easier to judge accidental vs deliberate so no need to change the rule to be so black and white.

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48 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Many football fans couldn’t stop slagging off referees, they wanted the perfect game, they wanted every decision to be 100% correct.

Every week on this forum a referee would get slaughtered for making in his eyes an honest split second decision...... from the one angle he saw it. 

We must have cameras everyone said, whilst people with experience of refereeing knew what this would bring.

Well now the fans have what they wanted, but seem even more unhappy!. Referees have always had the hardest job in football and part of that was having to put up with the ‘experts’ in the stands, a lot of which don’t even know all the laws of the game that they pay to watch! 

So here we are, var is giving fans what they asked for..................
 

No we didn't

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I thought VAR was going to be a good idea. Now it's being used I hate it. Using a laser to work out the striker's nose hair was offside wasn't what I had expected. Technology is good but the people using it aren't allowed to use common sense when employing it.

Please bin it as it's killing the excitement of scoring.

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What I would do is the following:

1. Scrap the stupid handball rule.

2. If VAR is needed for an offside, then give them 15 seconds maximum and if VAR has not made a decision in that time then the goal stands (should be sorted by the time the fans have even stopped celebrating). No need for any of the stupid lines etc.

3.For penalties/red cards/dives etc give them 30 seconds as will probably require a couple of different angles. If no decision in that time then just carry on. It was brought in for "clear and obvious", and if it takes more than that then it surely isn't clear and obvious is it.

4. Bring in retrospective video evidence for blatant dives/cheating (Kane holding his face a couple of weeks ago was a disgrace) and start banning players for 2 games (whether or not the ref has dealt with the situation at the time). Cheat again and double the ban for next offence if in that season. It will soon stop when they get banned and fines, and managers will want to stamp it out if their best players are banned.

 

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For me the issue is not VAR itself, but the way it is being used.

It was intended to ensure that "clear and obvious" errors were not made, it is being used to call offsides by millimetres, or (as last night) pick up on indiscretions that have not been spotted in real time. Neither offsides by millimetres, or the likes of the handball last night, constitute "clear and obvious errors". If decisions made in open play were only changed when VAR shows that a "clear and obvious error" has been made, nobody would be complaining.

 

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