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southvillekiddy

Why didn't Lansdown appoint Bielsa?

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16 minutes ago, wood_red said:

I am very surprised @southvillekiddy has seemed to have missed this post....

When you read this can you please quote all the players and the money wasted on them please, so we can total up against the list in ChippenhamReds post.

Thanks in advance

Sorry lads, I've got to have a lie down after that roast plus I'm nursing a singed cat.

But seriously the people making shirts for our players must be running out fabric, letters and numbers

Edited by southvillekiddy
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3 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

7/8 million for him and his staff per season, that's why. 

Imagine the outrage on here if we were playing like that and kept bottling it every season.

Nice and cosy in League 1. Let's go back there. 'God bless, Mr Lansdowns"

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21 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

Nice and cosy in League 1. Let's go back there. 'God bless, Mr Lansdowns"

Everyone wants SL to spend his millions......but then they moan about a rise in ST prices or the cost of a bobble hat.

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8 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

We wouldn't spend £4M on a year on a manager, currently, or whenever Bielsa was available .  Its not the Lansdown way.   Its not nonsense

 

 

£4 million a year

A fair few players here will be earning £1 million pa

Take away LJs wages and lose 3 out of bloated squad".........

 

Im not saying Bielsa for example should have been targeted , but to say he’s unaffordable is nonsense 

 

8 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

7/8 million for him and his staff per season, that's why. 

Imagine the outrage on here if we were playing like that and kept bottling it every season.

Exactly.  Before Johnson got the job, people were getting themselves excited that Moyes, Pearson etc etc were in the running.  It wasn't going to happen because of the cost of the Manager, his backroom staff, and that's before they discussed their transfer budget.  Theres no sell on value with a Manager, and the club would rather spend money(albeit not a lot) on the transfer fee for a player plus wages, because theres the possibility of a profit with an onward transfer

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46 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

Sorry lads, I've got to have a lie down after that roast plus I'm nursing a singed cat.

But seriously the people making shirts for our players must be running out fabric, letters and numbers

Have you ever thought that when his agent says 

Marcela Bristol City are in for you “

He says 

“Who” ? 

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2 minutes ago, Dolman Block B said:

Have you ever thought that when his agent says 

Marcela Bristol City are in for you “

He says 

“Who” ? 

That’s always assuming the agent knows who we are...

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2 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

Theres some middle ground between these guys and diony hegeler and engvall though

I think Hegeler free of injuries could've been alright tbh. 

A better example maybe Giefer.

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59 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

7/8 million for him and his staff per season, that's why. 

Imagine the outrage on here if we were playing like that and kept bottling it every season.

What does this mean 'if we were playing like that',  was it a typo-paying? 

Leeds play very good football under Bielsa but they have a problem that crops up over regular spells which is finishing sides off. They're very dominant though.

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2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What does this mean 'if we were playing like that',  was it a typo-paying? 

Leeds play very good football under Bielsa but they have a problem that crops up over regular spells which is finishing sides off. They're very dominant though.

Yes a typo, indeed I ment paying.

With Leeds spending all that money on Bielsa what have they actually achieved? He'll walk if they bottle it again imo.

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2 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Yes a typo, indeed I ment paying.

With Leeds spending all that money on Bielsa what have they actually achieved? He'll walk if they bottle it again imo.

A few positives, looking from the outside granted. 

Some great football. 

Their best back to back seasons since relegation from the PL. 

Jack Harrison loan and loan to buy- possibly due to Pep Bielsa relationship. 

Jack Clarke sale and loan back..Pochettino Bielsa relationship maybe helped. Granted he barely utilised him!

He will be judged on promotion ultimately though, but the number of chances they miss is incredible.

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A question southvillekiddy you highlight Alan Dicks as the only manager of note, what was his previous managerial experience? I'm sure someone of 71 years will remember.

Oh yeah and can you tell me how his first few season went as I'm a little too young to remember.

Edited by numbeast

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17 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Yes a typo, indeed I ment paying.

With Leeds spending all that money on Bielsa what have they actually achieved? He'll walk if they bottle it again imo.

How about the money he doesn’t spend on fees , agent fees and wages 

After arriving  He signed Two players  (Bamford an Douglas) for a total of just over £ 10 million and recouped most of tha5 by offloading Viereia for £6.5 milion

This season / last summer he hasnt made  one purchase , sold players for  £27+ million , and then works with what he has left with five loanees 

Edited by BobBobSuperBob
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I find Bielsa incredibly over rated an unreliable.

Marseille - were top but fell away to 4th.

Lazio - was there 2 days.

Lille - left after a few months.

Leeds - we all know what happened last year.

Very glad we didn't go anywhere near him, not that he would have looked at us anyway. Absolutely ridiculous shout from the OP.

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10 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

How about the money he doesn’t spend on fees , agent fees and wages 

After arriving  He signed Two players  (Bamford an Douglas) for a total of just over £ 10 million and recouped most of tha5 by offloading Viereia for £6.5 milion

This season / last summer he hasnt made  one purchase , sold players for  £27+ million , and then works with what he has left with five loanees 

Those loanees will likely be on big wages with decent loan fees as well, it’s hardly as though they came for free. 

Yes he hasn’t spent a lot, but he’s certainly not got a squad full of nobodies on no money

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17 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Those loanees will likely be on big wages with decent loan fees as well, it’s hardly as though they came for free. 

Yes he hasn’t spent a lot, but he’s certainly not got a squad full of nobodies on no money

He's signed a variety but he has also undoubtedly got more out of a variety too. 

Think when he joined Leeds had just finished 15th. Underachieving absolutely but that 3rd place last season was their highest finish since 2006, and in fact best since they left the PL in 2004.

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45 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

He's signed a variety but he has also undoubtedly got more out of a variety too. 

Think when he joined Leeds had just finished 15th. Underachieving absolutely but that 3rd place last season was their highest finish since 2006, and in fact best since they left the PL in 2004.

I agree he’s got a good amount out of players, but when you look at the players he has they are certainly no mugs. Costa, Hernandez, Bamford, Phillips etc were all accomplished championship players before Bielsa took over and the likes of Harrison and White are very good youngsters, as is Nketiah. 

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1 hour ago, numbeast said:

A question southvillekiddy you highlight Alan Dicks as the only manager of note, what was his previous managerial experience? I'm sure someone of 71 years will remember.

Oh yeah and can you tell me how his first few season went as I'm a little too young to remember.

Nah. You're not too young and you know it.

Dicks was a one-off in a different age, he'd already done well under Jimmy Hill. Harry Dolman, a highly successful business from that age must have surely seen, without the benefits of the Internet, what was special about him.  But in today's world, where information is everything and is available to all you can't surely can't rely on another one-off appearing or magically developing from a mediocre start, which is what we have now. AD is the one truly distinguished manager we've had in 125 years IMHO. I've said over and over our very successful business man owner, a billionaire, seems incapable of doing in football what he has done in business. ie find the highest quality staff to continually keep developing his business. 

Even after a lie down following the roast I remain totally baffled by City fans who cannot get this.

I await your reply mate.

Edited by southvillekiddy
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1 hour ago, Alex_BCFC said:

I find Bielsa incredibly over rated an unreliable.

Marseille - were top but fell away to 4th.

Lazio - was there 2 days.

Lille - left after a few months.

Leeds - we all know what happened last year.

Very glad we didn't go anywhere near him, not that he would have looked at us anyway. Absolutely ridiculous shout from the OP.

I think you missed out the bit about him managing the Argentinian national team, world cup winners, who must know a bit about football and football managers. He also managed the Chiliean national team

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2 hours ago, Dolman Block B said:

Have you ever thought that when his agent says 

Marcela Bristol City are in for you “

He says 

“Who” ? 

Pity if you can't imagine that ever happening mate.

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2 hours ago, Eastred said:

Exactly.  Before Johnson got the job, people were getting themselves excited that Moyes, Pearson etc etc were in the running.  It wasn't going to happen because of the cost of the Manager, his backroom staff, and that's before they discussed their transfer budget.  Theres no sell on value with a Manager, and the club would rather spend money(albeit not a lot) on the transfer fee for a player plus wages, because theres the possibility of a profit with an onward transfer

Unfortunately that's the mistake we keep on making. Which is the most important appointment a football club can make? I've never said a Club should spend millions on players but if you spend serious money on a top manager and his coaching staff you may not need to go mad with signings.

Very interesting to see what Alf Ramsey did from 1960 to 1962 at Ipswich, another city without a strong football history, on next to nothing. And then of course there is the World Cup.

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1 hour ago, southvillekiddy said:

I think you missed out the bit about him managing the Argentinian national team, world cup winners, who must know a bit about football and football managers. He also managed the Chiliean national team

He won the World Cup with Argentina did he? 

He managed Chile? Incredible. 

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2 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

I think you missed out the bit about him managing the Argentinian national team, world cup winners, who must know a bit about football and football managers. He also managed the Chiliean national team

The Argentinian team that once appointed Maradona as manager? 

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Really like Bielsa and his sides are great to watch but his style doesn’t bring success in club football. 

It’s just not sustainable to play at that tempo for a whole season hence why his sides burn out. 

He’s definitely made football a lot better though. It’s all about pressing and transitions now which I think makes for a more entertaining game. Just feels like the likes of Guardiola and Klopp have been able to build on his philosophy and make it more sustainable.

 

Edited by MATT BCFC
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10 hours ago, JBFC II said:

I agree he’s got a good amount out of players, but when you look at the players he has they are certainly no mugs. Costa, Hernandez, Bamford, Phillips etc were all accomplished championship players before Bielsa took over and the likes of Harrison and White are very good youngsters, as is Nketiah. 

Clearly he has good players but a few issues

1 hour ago, MATT BCFC said:

Really like Bielsa and his sides are great to watch but his style doesn’t bring success in club football. 

It’s just not sustainable to play at that tempo for a whole season hence why his sides burn out. 

He’s definitely made football a lot better though. It’s all about pressing and transitions now which I think makes for a more entertaining game. Just feels like the likes of Guardiola and Klopp have been able to build on his philosophy and make it more sustainable.

 

The only issue with that is that their dominance levels remain fairly constant- it's the results that deteriorate. Fatigue makes them take less of their chances and get turned around in defence/midfield more maybe?

Analyse their last 4 games where they blew up...the stats and the underlying performance level for 3 of them is still very strong, Brentford away the only less than dominant one- and let's face it Brentford don't often get dominated at home.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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Leeds havent gone up yet... he still might fail! Even though as we ve seen in the summer players choose us over them because wise people like Ian Wright.... suggest joining a team and not even getting played much... 

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22 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

It wasn't a joke mate. I can't believe that Hargreaves/ Lansdown got where they are by thinking small

Perhaps they do?

Maybe they do Worldclass basics (on a small scale) ?

 

😀

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14 hours ago, Dolman Block B said:

Have you ever thought that when his agent says 

Marcela Bristol City are in for you “

He says 

“Who” ? 

Thought he didn't speak English ?

😀

 

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14 hours ago, Dolman Block B said:

Have you ever thought that when his agent says 

Marcela Bristol City are in for you “

He says 

quién” ? 

 

7 minutes ago, soultrader said:

Thought he didn't speak English ?

😀

 

There you go, better?

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I’ll have a go on this one.

To the guy who said “I’m glad we didn’t get Bielsa” your fellow supporters should shred any membership card you may have and ban you from the forum 😂 are you kidding!!!!

This has been the best 18 months since the PL days, we pay to go to the football to be entertained (and hopefully have success) you’ll find most Leeds fans aren’t actually w*****rs most of us appreciate we don’t have a divine right to be in the PL everyone gets there on merit, are we entertained? Yes.

A few have said about his budget, what budget?

For the past 5 seasons we have sold more than we have bought and until recently have had BY FAR the lowest wages to turnover ratio in the Championship.

Bamford £7m, Douglas £3m, Casilla £3m and this season Costa (obligation to buy £15m 🙄).

However all of that has been covered by outgoings, Vieira (gutted) £7m, Roofe (gutted) £7m, Jansson (less gutted) a paltry £5.5m), Farrell £2.5m, Ekuban £2m, Clarke £10m, plus quite a few undisclosed believed to be £0.5m ones.

If you look on soccerbase at the ins / outs you’ll be astounded at the very little we have brought in.

His coaching team reportedly cost £5-6m in total per year. FINALLY we have gone down the route of employing someone with pedigree for THE MOST IMPORTANT position at the club.

We certainly have our problems, they are PARTLY down to Bielsa demanding a small squad.

Forshaw, Douglas and Roberts. I’m sure you’ll agree players that would walk into many (not all) Championship sides, they have permanent beds in hospital, it seems playing football is an inconvenience to their hospital careers!

Harrison if we go up I believe we have an option to buy at £8m, last season I would have chocked if we spent that, now it’s looking very good value.

The main problem we have is goals / conversion.

We create BY FAR the most amount of chances, yet we sit 17th for shots on target and 19th for conversion (almost relegation standard).

The team is now getting frustrated (and the fans), continually working to get clear chances and seeing them ballooned into to row Z takes it toll on morale.

We are in dire form in front of goal, then that starts to feed back to other areas of the team as we lose confidence.

I am confident (still) that if we sign a striker (good conversion rate) we will go up automatically, why?

Well if our shots on target and conversion was even the 10th best in the league we would we well clear.

Genuinely if we do not sign a striker in this window I do not believe we will make the playoffs. Some of you will think “argh **** off what is he on”, but genuinely the team morale is shot. It’s Groundhog Day and if the owner wants to go up its time to spend.

Bielsa has taken a team that finished 13th, shopped out many and brought in VERY few players.

The players left in all honesty most are of limited ability, by themselves other than White(not ours), Phillips and probably Ayling  (Douglas and Roberts always injured) who else is walking into a top 10 Championship side?

Bielsa has drilled them and they have become better players, however that doesn’t mean they can’t slip back to being the same players that finished 13th every now and again.

However in Phillips he has turned someone into a player Southgate has come to watch a few times and of genuine value.

I’ve said it every single time I’ve watched Leeds vs City (we’ll see about next month) Johnson seemingly has no plan after ALL this time. He seemingly doesn’t even know what his preferred 11 is FFS.

If Bristol City have ANY ambition to reach the PL it starts with the manager.

If we don’t go up Bielsa will be gone, would he have been worth the money if we don’t go up?

Yes, entertainment and at times wonderful football.

Yes, however much he has cost he actually increases the value of current players.

2 years ago you could have said an offer for £5m has come in for Phillips, we’d have taken it.

Now the figures being touted are vast and top clubs here and abroad are watching him.

Bielsa makes what you HAVE better.

 

 

 

Edited by SPAZZA

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On 19/01/2020 at 11:24, southvillekiddy said:

Instead of wasting millions signing 60 odd players most of whom turn out to be average to poor why doesn't our owner/chairman spend a significant part of that money where it will really count on an internationally acclaimed manager?

Seems to be working for one of our competitors for promotion to the Premiership

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/marcelo-bielsa-good-bad-leeds-14748371

 

 

1. Was he available?

2. Would he have been interested?

3. Could we afford him?

It's all very well to say, "oh look, so-and-so is doing well, give them a job."  Pochettino is out of work currently, but probably wouldn't come running if the City job was available.

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Bielsa is an upgrade on Hockaday, perhaps we can agree on that. 

It might be a coincidence that Leeds are looking as likely to return to the top under the internationally renowned Bielsa as they have with any of their other coaches/managers since dropping out of the top division 16 years ago; or it might not be a coincidence. We can argue that one all year and find no common ground.

Is LJ closer to/more of a Bielsa, or a Hockaday? Or smack bang in the middle of the two?

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13 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Bielsa is an upgrade on Hockaday, perhaps we can agree on that. 

It might be a coincidence that Leeds are looking as likely to return to the top under the internationally renowned Bielsa as they have with any of their other coaches/managers since dropping out of the top division 16 years ago; or it might not be a coincidence. We can argue that one all year and find no common ground.

Is LJ closer to/more of a Bielsa, or a Hockaday? Or smack bang in the middle of the two?

Hockaday....wow. A time in our turbulent history when the Chairman was an absolute loon, he appears to have continued this at Brescia.

Hockaday is someone who shouldn’t be in the conversation.

We have had 13 managers since 2008.

Grayson, Monk, Christiansen and Bielsa are the only ones I would rate. (Warnock should never have come here).

Of those I would say Monk, Grayson and Bielsa were better than LJ.

Grayson didn’t get us promoted even though we were top at Christmas Ken Bates refused to invest in a Centre Back. Excellent manager for us.

Monk, organised. Arrogant and thought he was far too good for Leeds, but organised us well and we played conservatively. 11nots clear of 7th with 8 matches to go and the owner refusing to give him a longer term deal (just 1 yr extension), queue loss of form and missing out on playoffs.

Christiansen I though was good, however only had one way of playing, unlike Bielsa this way wasn’t engrained hard enough and we come unstuck.

Only Grayson had the ability to get us up before Bielsa.

LJ will not get you up. He isn’t good enough.

 

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10 hours ago, MATT BCFC said:

Really like Bielsa and his sides are great to watch but his style doesn’t bring success in club football. 

It’s just not sustainable to play at that tempo for a whole season hence why his sides burn out. 

He’s definitely made football a lot better though. It’s all about pressing and transitions now which I think makes for a more entertaining game. Just feels like the likes of Guardiola and Klopp have been able to build on his philosophy and make it more sustainable.

 

Fair comment about Klopp and Guardiola but Bielsa has never managed a club as big as the ones they have. I suspect he is too eccentric an individual for the truly big clubs to take on!

His Bilbao side was possibly the most exciting to watch I have seen though.

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On 19/01/2020 at 17:12, ChippenhamRed said:

 

I keep hearing this suggestion that we’ve “wasted millions” on duff players, and it’s rarely challenged, as if it’s objective fact. Is it?

If our recruitment was really that bad, would we have managed to climb the table for five successive seasons?

Tomlin and Engvall spring to mind as expensive recruits that clearly didn’t justify the money spent. Palmer looks like he might be another. Beyond that we’ve had some fairly neutral signings like Djuric, Pisano, Watkins, Walsh for example. Then we’ve had some crap loans, like Diony and Kent - but then they were loans, so our financial exposure was limited.

Personally I find it easier to recall many more signings who have - overall - been broadly positive i.e. have made at least useful contributions to the first team; 

Brownhill, Kalas, Webster, Dasilva, Tammy, Fammy, Hunt, Bentley, Massengo, Moore, Wiemann, Maenpaa, Eliasson, Baker, Wright, Taylor, Afobe, Williams.

Plus of course you have to consider the money returned by selling players that, at the time, had effectively become too good for us; Reid, Bryan, Flint, Webster.

Is it actually a lazy accusation without much foundation that we’ve “wasted millions” on players? I think it might be.

Interesting that @southvillekiddy has replied to many posts on this thread, but chose to ignore this one.

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21 hours ago, Eastred said:

Exactly.  Before Johnson got the job, people were getting themselves excited that Moyes, Pearson etc etc were in the running.  It wasn't going to happen because of the cost of the Manager, his backroom staff, and that's before they discussed their transfer budget.  Theres no sell on value with a Manager, and the club would rather spend money(albeit not a lot) on the transfer fee for a player plus wages, because theres the possibility of a profit with an onward transfer

There is one if they’re good enough to be poached.

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On 19/01/2020 at 11:24, southvillekiddy said:

Instead of wasting millions signing 60 odd players most of whom turn out to be average to poor why doesn't our owner/chairman spend a significant part of that money where it will really count on an internationally acclaimed manager?

Seems to be working for one of our competitors for promotion to the Premiership

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/marcelo-bielsa-good-bad-leeds-14748371

 

 

For the same reason Leeds had to sell one of their best players in the summer. Finances.

 

Not entirely sure he would've came here anyway, wouldn't be surprised if Leeds' reputation influenced his decision too.

Edited by J D

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21 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What does this mean 'if we were playing like that',  was it a typo-paying? 

Leeds play very good football under Bielsa but they have a problem that crops up over regular spells which is finishing sides off. They're very dominant though.

I believe that if we finish this season above Leeds, we will be in the playoffs and performing well.

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

There is one if they’re good enough to be poached.

I believe we had to pay compo for Lee Johnson didn't we ?

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4 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

I believe that if we finish this season above Leeds, we will be in the playoffs and performing well.

I believe we had to pay compo for Lee Johnson didn't we ?

Indeed we did.

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1 hour ago, chinapig said:

Fair comment about Klopp and Guardiola but Bielsa has never managed a club as big as the ones they have. I suspect he is too eccentric an individual for the truly big clubs to take on!

His Bilbao side was possibly the most exciting to watch I have seen though.

His Marseille for a few months were fantastic too. PSG possibly underperformed but he had them in a scrap for the title with Lyon and maybe Monaco. Marseille had a reasonable lead at one point though.

26 minutes ago, J D said:

For the same reason Leeds had to sell one of their best players in the summer. Finances.

 

Not entirely sure he would've came here anyway, wouldn't be surprised if Leeds' reputation influenced his decision too.

For different reasons though, player sale wise. Their owner doesn't/can't always put in the equity so lower FFP

Walking out of Marseille after two games into his 2nd season, or even more Lazio after a handful of days likely don't help his cause! 

Because stylistically, Bielsa at Barcelona would be a great match. Purely basing it on ethos, I know it's much more complex etc.

25 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

I believe that if we finish this season above Leeds, we will be in the playoffs and performing well.

Agreed. 8 points is quite big though, still think they should be top 2 contenders...teams who finish above them will have done well full stop IMO.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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If Leeds do go up, that’s 6 points we have a much better of getting. We always struggle against them, home and away.

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On 19/01/2020 at 16:05, southvillekiddy said:

Finished the roast, back on duty.

Thankyou for that fair and considered response my friend

I'm just worried about the grinding slowness of it all and Ahem! I'm not sure that a hot-shot business man couldn't get around FFP. Clubs in the Prem seem to manage it.

I'll debate the FFP and feasibility or otherwise point on the FFP thread in due course. 

See you over there. :thumbs up:

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2 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Interesting that @southvillekiddy has replied to many posts on this thread, but chose to ignore this one.

It's a lot of work and I've got a sick cat. Phew. So insistent. Chill.

Amazing how hard some of you are working to deny a perfectly reasonable idea ie. why can't SL hire a decent to excellent manager. What are you so frightened about?

 

Check out what Spazza has got to say 

Edited by southvillekiddy

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7 hours ago, SecretSam said:

1. Was he available?

2. Would he have been interested?

3. Could we afford him?

It's all very well to say, "oh look, so-and-so is doing well, give them a job."  POCHETTINO is out of work currently, but probably wouldn't come running if the City job was available.

Why don't you look at the idea properly instead of trying to be sarcy? Why is the thought of Bristol City actually achieving something so intimidating to you.

Edited by southvillekiddy

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19 hours ago, Up The City! said:

The Argentinian team that once appointed Maradona as manager? 

Surely you can grasp the point. Argentina are a great football nation having won the World Cup twice?

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